from the its-not-over-till-the-fat-lady-sings dept.
Julian Assange Loses Appeal: British High Court Accepts U.S. Request to Extradite Him for Trial:
In a London courtroom on Friday morning, Julian Assange suffered a devastating blow to his quest for freedom. A two-judge appellate panel of the United Kingdom's High Court ruled that the U.S.'s request to extradite Assange to the U.S. to stand trial on espionage charges is legally valid.
As a result, that extradition request will now be sent to British Home Secretary Prita Patel, who technically must approve all extradition requests but, given the U.K. Government's long-time subservience to the U.S. security state, is all but certain to rubber-stamp it. Assange's representatives, including his fiancee Stella Morris, have vowed to appeal the ruling, but today's victory for the U.S. means that Assange's freedom, if it ever comes, is further away than ever: not months but years even under the best of circumstances.
In endorsing the U.S. extradition request, the High Court overturned a lower court's ruling from January which had concluded that the conditions of U.S. prison — particularly for those accused of national security crimes — are so harsh and oppressive that there is a high likelihood that Assange would commit suicide. In January's ruling, Judge Vanessa Baraitser rejected all of Assange's arguments that the U.S. was seeking to punish him not for crimes but for political offenses. But in rejecting the extradition request, she cited the numerous attestations from Assange's doctors that his physical and mental health had deteriorated greatly after seven years of confinement in the small Ecuadorian Embassy where he had obtained asylum, followed by his indefinite incarceration in the U.K.
In response to that January victory for Assange, the Biden DOJ appealed the ruling and convinced Judge Baraitser to deny Assange bail and ordered him imprisoned pending appeal. The U.S. then offered multiple assurances that Assange would be treated "humanely" in U.S. prison once he was extradited and convicted. They guaranteed that he would not be held in the most repressive "supermax" prison in Florence, Colorado — whose conditions are so repressive that it has been condemned and declared illegal by numerous human rights groups around the world — nor, vowed U.S. prosecutors, would he be subjected to the most extreme regimen of restrictions and isolation called Special Administrative Measures ("SAMs") unless subsequent behavior by Assange justified it. American prosecutors also agreed that they would consent to any request from Assange that, once convicted, he could serve his prison term in his home country of Australia rather than the U.S. Those guarantees, ruled the High Court this morning, rendered the U.S. extradition request legal under British law.
Lots more in the full story.
Also at: Washington Post, c|net, CNN, and Security Week.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Freeman on Friday December 10 2021, @03:18PM (45 children)
I would be highly surprised, if he doesn't spend the rest of his natural life in prison. That's assuming, he actually makes it to the trial.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @03:42PM (21 children)
He wouldn't have a good time under trump but now under the brandon administration its going to be much worse. He affected the latter group directly and they are going to want revenge.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @05:21PM (9 children)
The DOJ appealed. Sleepy Joe doesn't even know who Assange is.
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @05:57PM
He barely can remember who his wife is, so that's no surprise.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by mcgrew on Friday December 10 2021, @06:00PM (6 children)
"Sleepy Joe"? Another trumpian troll. Use your real name, or at least your UID you damned coward. Idiological fools piss me off, only idiots vote straight party, unless they're voting straight Nazi or straight Communist (both teensy parties in the US).
Or they're just trolling.
Impeach Donald Saruman and his sidekick Elon Sauron
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @07:08PM (1 child)
hai fren - welcome to Intranets. you seem nice let's hang out.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @04:39AM
OMG... The shitposting was coming from inside the network!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @07:23PM (1 child)
I thought it was "Creepy Joe".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:28PM
Creepy Sleepy Joe and Jewlian Ass Lozenge. That's where we are, people.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @09:44PM
Agreed, adding these ambiguous claims to the insults is just being petty. It is far better to use specific references for which there is evidence, like...
Why do you think that Nazis and Communists are not idiots when they vote straight party? Anyone voting in such a way is arguably an idiot. No exceptions.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @11:37PM
That's just Runaway. He's been fondling his guns again.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @08:23PM
He does, Biden called him a hi-tech terrorist.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mcgrew on Friday December 10 2021, @05:57PM (10 children)
"Brandon administration", troll? Fucking juvenile twat! FOAD, fool.
Impeach Donald Saruman and his sidekick Elon Sauron
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @07:53PM
Why don't you go lick Brandon's ice cream?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday December 10 2021, @07:53PM (3 children)
Do you swear you never referred to his predecessor as "Cheetoh in Chief, " "Drumpf," or any of their permutations?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @08:17PM
He did, he's just a hypocrite, paid partisan troll or brainwashed.
Assange harmed previous dem administrations, not so much republican ones. Bush maybe had some IRAQ blowaback but Hitlery lost the election on account of leaks. If assange was getting the book thrown at him before, now it's a whole library.
But of course it's better to call me a names and derail it all. If he wants to talk smack, I'd say all I've said here to his face. I'd bet he'd shrink away. This talk of real names is so that they can try to call employers, anonymously of course.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:30PM
Tangerine Shitgibbon, maybe. But never Cheetoh in Chief, how DARE you Sir. How dare you.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday December 12 2021, @05:50PM
No, I used more truthful words, like evil, liar, corrupt, racist, etc. I did call him "President Pinocchio". Historians say he was the fourth worst president in US history.
But I'm no Democrat, IMO anyone who votes straight party rather than choosing the right candidate for the job is a moron. If you're a Democrat or Republican and not holding or running for public office, you're a fool. In an election you're hiring someone to do a job. I worked for Illinois under the last two good governors Illinois has had, Thompson and Edgar (I heard all the rumors of Thompson's corruption but never witnessed it). As soon as Ryan was elected the state fell apart. It got worse under the even more corrupt Blago. When Quinn took over, we got brand new computers, still factory sealed. They had been sitting in a warehouse from the beginning of Blago's term and barely worked, since they had so little memory. Quinn was just incompetent.
I voted in the Republican primary when Rauner ran. His opponents were all high ranking members of the Thompson and Edgar administrations, any of whom would have likely been very good governors so I voted against the billionaire. I just don't trust billionaires. Too bad he won, he was the worst Illinois governor so far this century, even worse than the crooks who went to prison. Prickster's a lousy governor, but the best we've had this century.
Impeach Donald Saruman and his sidekick Elon Sauron
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @07:58PM (1 child)
This is what passes for an "Insightful" comment here?
I may have to go back to the green site.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @07:10AM
Trading one set of British editors for another is hardly an improvement.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday December 10 2021, @09:03PM
Blood pressure! You don't want your eyes to pop out, do you?
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2, Informative) by digitalaudiorock on Saturday December 11 2021, @02:01PM (1 child)
JFC with the right anymore. I'd been hearing this Brandon BS in passing and finally got curious enough to ask WTF. Clearly I shouldn't have bothered.
For those here who haven't kept up on our apparently third grade Republicans (including members of Congress apparently), here's [apnews.com] an explanation. You'll want that time back just as I did.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 12 2021, @12:44AM
Oh please. Let's go brandon!
You know you live in a distopia when the news covers up chanting against DeAr LeaDer. Use that time you took back wisely because with attitudes like yours, it's not gonna get any better.
(Score: 1) by mexsudo on Friday December 10 2021, @04:16PM (7 children)
in the USA for Espionage the Death Penalty is also possible
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @04:26PM (1 child)
You have to be a foreign agent or a member of the US government.
Assange is neither. He's a private Australian citizen. Always has been. Look up Mendax.
Sheesh, y'all got short memories. It's only been a few decades.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @08:13PM
False.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @04:42PM (2 children)
And yet, they didn't prosecute Hillary for her leaky servers and stealing of classified documents and in this case all Assange did was what investigative journalists do to get information that the public needs to know about.
I do hope that the judiciary has at least some integrity, but given the clowns that both parties have packed the courts with, I have doubts that they'll recognize that what he did was engage in the kind of journalism that used to be far more common than it is today.
Bottom line is that nothing he did was illegal and the DoD had the opportunity to help with the redactions, they just chose not to because they didn't want the story told at all.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:54PM (1 child)
You assume that he ever sees the inside of a courtroom. If they declare him a threat to national security under section 412 of the PATRIOT Act then he's looking at life in prison without trial.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 12 2021, @01:30PM
I don't think they can do that, the Brits probably are going to require at least a show trial.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday December 10 2021, @06:03PM (1 child)
Possible, yes, but IINM the last execution for spying was over half a century ago and the "spies" were found to actually not be spies, after they were executed. If they were going to execute someone they would have executed Manning, who actually had access to the documents he supplied Assuage with.
Not likely at all.
Impeach Donald Saruman and his sidekick Elon Sauron
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Friday December 10 2021, @07:30PM
Last official execution maybe. Much more likely there will be a spontaneous simultaneous breakdown of all the cameras, the guards will go out for coffee, and while they're gone Assange will beat himself up and then hang himself from the bed.
One job constant is that good employers have low turnover, so opportunities to join good employers are relatively rare.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday December 10 2021, @05:10PM (14 children)
First he'll be put in the same cell as Jeffrey Epstein, then he'll get a visit from the same 'suicide' that Epstein got while the same guards 'watch' him for said 'suicide'.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 3, Disagree) by mcgrew on Friday December 10 2021, @06:08PM (13 children)
You Q-balls make me laugh. Epstein, born filthy rich, lives a filthy rich life until he's old then put in a filthy, cold jail cell with zero possibility of ever having freedom again didn't commit suicide?
You might want to cut down on the cocaine a little.
Impeach Donald Saruman and his sidekick Elon Sauron
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @07:03PM
Goddamn, you're a fucking idiot. Epstein was just another Jew trafficking White girls, in this case to blackmail powerful people with for Israeli/Jewish aims.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @07:34PM (1 child)
You're a bit naive. Epstein had too much dirt on too many people for it to ever be allowed to come out in court.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:36PM
Oops [theguardian.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @08:12PM (4 children)
You do understand that he had dirt on extremely high ranking politicians and billionaires, right?
And you believe that it just HAPPENED to be the case that the TWO guards assigned to watch him that night BOTH fell asleep for three hours?
And that the TWO cameras watching Epstein's cell just HAPPENED to BOTH malfunction the same night?
Is that what you believe?
(Score: 4, Touché) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Saturday December 11 2021, @12:52AM (3 children)
"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice".
From a normal organization, I would not believe a set of failures like that. Having researched prison conditions, I am open to the possibility of the Bureau of Prisons have sufficiently advanced incompetence.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @11:18AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @11:20AM
I don't pretend to be a competent surgeon, and I expect (with a mound of salt) better of those who have other lives in their care. If I pretended to be a competent surgeon and got found out, I'd surely face criminal charges.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday December 13 2021, @03:03PM
I'm open to that possibility as well. There's just no way to know for sure which it was, due to the incompetence. For all we know, he did some unsavory things to a guard's wife and bob's your uncle, he committed suicide. I find it somewhat more likely that he killed himself, but there's that wriggling thread of doubt (more like the thickness of a rope) that just won't go away.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Saturday December 11 2021, @04:08AM
Not a Q-ball; not even sure if Epstein is in anyway associated with Q.
Just a realist: he had so much shit on so many powreful people that i knew he'd be 'taken care of'.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/did-jeffrey-epstein-kill-himself-60-minutes-investigates-2020-01-05/ [cbsnews.com]
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by unauthorized on Sunday December 12 2021, @09:16AM (3 children)
Someone as rich as Epsteen doesn't go to jail forever, the justice system doesn't apply to the ultra wealthy the same way as it does for everyone else. His death was conspicuous enough to raise suspicion and while there is no strong evidence to suggest he was silenced, there is no good reason to assume otherwise either. Just because someone has an insane elaborate conspiracy theory, that doesn't mean that there isn't a conspiracy.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday December 12 2021, @05:57PM (2 children)
True, but without proof it isn't even theory, simply conjecture. Sure, he could have been murdered, but I can see someone born into great wealth, living an evil life like he led, having anything he ever wanted all of a sudden is slapped into a filthy jail without the likelihood of ever being free despite his wealth (remember, El Chapo was as rich as Epstein and he's still locked up) committing suicide, and to discount the possibility that he did kill himself, well, it doesn't show much thought.
Impeach Donald Saruman and his sidekick Elon Sauron
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday December 13 2021, @02:57PM (1 child)
There's not enough evidence to prove that he definitively did/didn't kill himself. Sure, it's entirely plausible that he killed himself. Considering the amount of "ineptitude" surrounding the circumstances. It's hard to argue that it couldn't have been someone knocking him off. It was high profile and had a lot of wealthy people, possibly on the hook. There is no way to be sure, because the multiple levels of surety were not functioning.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Tuesday December 14 2021, @07:36PM
That's exactly my point. Everyone else here seems certain he was murdered. To believe either way is belief without proof.
Impeach Donald Saruman and his sidekick Elon Sauron
(Score: 3, Informative) by mexsudo on Friday December 10 2021, @04:36PM (3 children)
The US has also agreed to consent to an application by Assange to be transferred to Australia to serve his sentence if he is convicted.
Capital punishment in Australia was a form of punishment in Australia that has been abolished in all jurisdictions.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @04:44PM
Yes, but the UK also abolished the death penalty quite a while ago, if I'm not mistaken, so in order to get the extradition approved, the US would have to promise not to or jeopardize future extraditions.
That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't get the Epstein special given how shady this whole process has been up to this point.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Phoenix666 on Friday December 10 2021, @07:57PM
Joke's on them. That whole place is a penal colony. As an Australian they ought to give him time served and turn him loose.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @11:15PM
Just release the insurance file [wired.com] already!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @05:01PM (69 children)
Trump was discussing it but never did it. I mentioned in the comments that Biden would never do it and some of the Biden supporters at the time suggested that he might. Looks like I'm right.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @05:29PM (11 children)
Trump versus the Swamp.
One man couldn't overturn the entire corrupt Leviathan, but he sure made the Swamp politicians reveal their true nature. Americans everywhere were EDUCATED. Turning around the corrupt govt will take years if it happens at all because both parties are in on the action to benefit themselves. Trump was the man no one in the duopoly party leadership thought had a chance at the presidency. He took them by surprise.
People in countries all over the world have been resisting the rich and connected getting richer by selling out their citizens. They derisively call them "nationalists" (since when was that a bad thing?) or populists. I call the enemy filthy globalists. Endless wars in the Middle East and neighboring regions are started by the globalists.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @07:11PM (2 children)
all teh Bad stuffs r done by other team, yah brah i feel ya?
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:35PM (1 child)
You didn't read my post. The Republicans and Democrats are the Uniparty, and Trump upset their cozy deal. Both parties conspired to do him in.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @11:22AM
(Score: 3, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Friday December 10 2021, @07:19PM
So I guess you agree with me that Trump is just PRETENDING to be rich and is, in fact, completely bankrupt after pissing away all of Daddy's money?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 10 2021, @07:22PM (6 children)
Well, my take is that those filthy globalists have through global trade done far more to better the human condition than to those nationalists have. And virtually everyone including you is a filthy globalist.
As to Trump, why are you still buying that con? Virtually everything the guy says is lies.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:42PM (5 children)
Globalists are all about replacing the nation-state as the unit of sovereignty with a small class of international, well-connected, rich people who are UNACCOUNTABLE to the citizens of their so-called country. You as a peon will get absolutely zero say in what happens in your country. Laws will be flouted, elections fouled, and unelected but appointed bureaucrats will make all the rules which will effectively be laws. You are confusing a rigged game in trade with the trade that we used to have before this. Please don't think that the crony capitalism that is the result of political deals with govts such as the Chinese Communist govt is free trade or anything close to it.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 10 2021, @11:08PM (3 children)
Well, that sounds pretty despicable, but what does it have to do with actual globalists who aren't that? Such as the people who merely advocate for global trade, for example.
And there's a bunch of shitty countries where it's impossible to genuinely hold anyone accountable by nature or intent. They tend to be pretty nationalist, BTW.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 10 2021, @11:32PM (2 children)
Or to continue that train of thought and achieve consistency with my previous use of globalist, how about people who take advantage of global trade?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @04:14PM (1 child)
Those people are not apolitical - they use politics to advance their globablist agenda. Unfortunately, "stability", cheap labor, US foreign policy, and other economically-important metrics favor totalitarian states,
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday December 11 2021, @11:05PM
(Score: 1, Redundant) by weilawei on Saturday December 11 2021, @11:23AM
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @05:39PM
The rumor was that Cocaine Mitch threatened Trump with impeachment votes if he pardoned Assange. The list of actual criminals Trump pardoned disgusted many of the MAGA crowd.
https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1351775340817833987 [twitter.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday December 10 2021, @05:41PM (40 children)
- Trump wasn't going to pardon him: He didn't have a big pile of cash to buy a pardon, nor does he appear to have enough dirt on Trump to be a threat to his popularity.
- Mainstream Republicans weren't going to pardon him: They still hate his guts for exposing what the US was doing in the Middle East.
- Biden or any other mainstream Democrat wasn't going to pardon him: They hate his guts for making Hillary Clinton and the DNC look bad.
His best chance would have been with Bernie Sanders or maybe Elizabeth Warren: Bernie, because Assange's publications confirmed a lot of what he was saying. Warren, because she's a legal scholar and thus understands that somebody embarrassing a public figure isn't a crime, and by all appearances isn't crooked enough to want to lock up an innocent person.
But there's still the jury trial.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @05:56PM
Events on the Capitol sapped his political capital. There had been a reasonable chance. [thegatewaypundit.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @06:03PM (4 children)
I would have given Trump credit had he pardoned Snowden and Julian. I'm disappointed in Trump.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @07:38PM (3 children)
Which means you foolishly had expectations of trump. Did you not research him one little bit? He is a rich elitist that does things for power and money, not for the sake of a clear conscience. Makes me wonder about you, how did you hear the horrifying shit he said like grab em by the pussy and shooting someone on 5th ave and NOT realize he is a terrible person? The best interpretation is that you secretly admire that horrible stuff and excused it by saying he was just joking. Funny thing we've come to find out, people that excuse horrible shit as "just jokes" are usually terrible people that like the terrible things.
If you are disappointed now you're either a fool or an asshole.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @08:23PM (2 children)
At least trump somewhat likes america. These current "leaders" directly say they hate us and that the country should rot..
As much as trump is an egotistical narcisist, what have the so called "resistance" accomplished?
Riots, inflation and stagnation. And oh, I forget, the biggest propaganda network ever assembled. Not that it's working in your favor.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:41PM (1 child)
Wait, which team are you batting for?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @07:15AM
Third positions unite.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Friday December 10 2021, @06:16PM (15 children)
The Obama Admin chose to not go after him in the first place because they felt he was protected by Freedom of the Press. [theintercept.com]
Trump's was the first Admin to actually file any charges that would need a pardon. [rsf.org]
However, it is likely true that Biden will see the case through to it's conclusion although they are promising to allow him to serve any time in Australia and therefore execution is off the table. [nytimes.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Friday December 10 2021, @06:34PM (11 children)
I'm going to quote from the first article you linked:
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday December 10 2021, @06:51PM (10 children)
Love him or hate him it would have been in his best interest to remain neutral.
Spreading the libelous and Seth Rich conspiracy theory and other misinformation about the election. [smh.com.au]
Covering up crimes by Russia. [foreignpolicy.com]
Secret coordination with the Trump campaign. [theintercept.com]
But, he chose to become a partisan hack and now he gets to deal with the partisan hacks on the other side that he pissed off.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @07:01PM (2 children)
You're such a partisan hack that you think any criticism is necessarily partisan...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @07:40PM
You're such an idiot that.... well actually that covers it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:47PM
https://www.vox.com/2016/9/15/12929262/wikileaks-hillary-clinton-julian-assange-hate [vox.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday December 10 2021, @07:02PM (6 children)
The whole point of the Freedom of the Press portion of the First Amendment (and Article 10 of the EU Conventions on Human Rights, which the UK was part of when these charges were brought) is that you're legally allowed to be as much of a partisan hack as you like without the government able to haul you into court, lock you up, or execute you for it.
I don't particularly like the guy, but not liking the guy is not the same as thinking he should be in prison for actions that aren't crimes but were inconvenient to powerful people. But I know, I'm weird and have this quaint idea called "the rule of law" that I'm a fan of.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday December 10 2021, @07:17PM (3 children)
I agree with the Obama Administration about the espionage charges.
If he's going to face punishment for his actions I'd rather see it done based on his libel and slander of Seth Rich. He knew exactly where those leaks were coming from and he chose to spread a dangerous conspiracy theory instead.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Friday December 10 2021, @07:42PM (2 children)
Libel and slander are both civil matters, not criminal, and there's a world of difference between having a civil judgment against you and being in prison.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @02:32PM (1 child)
I don't get it. He is a foreigner right? Why is he subject to American laws?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @04:16PM
Because law is and always has been a joke. Law is the whip for a 'civilised' age. It doesn't have to actually make sense or conform to what you've been taught to think to serve it's purpose.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:49PM
"The rule of law" is just a theory, you know that right? A social theory even. As in, not even wrong.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 12 2021, @04:18PM
Which the UK is still part of [wikipedia.org].
The ECHR is a separate organization that also includes e.g. Turkey and Russia as its members (that alone should give you an idea how effective the agreement really is). Ratification of the ECHR is a prerequisite for joining the European Union, but the two are not the same.
(Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Friday December 10 2021, @07:44PM (2 children)
The Obama administration chose not to go after him publicly while he was in the embassy. That might be as claimed above, but I think it more likely that making the extradition request while Assange was sheltered would have backfired. IMHO, the same tools used by the Trump and Biden administrations was similarly prepped during the Obama administration.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @09:54AM (1 child)
Oh hey look, liberals are happy to condemn a Dem saying fucked up shit. Fuck Obama for many things, that being one. Fuck Biden for being a corporate shill unwilling to fight for change. etc. etc.
Meanwhile you're busy saying "no insurrection nuh uuuuhhh"
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Saturday December 11 2021, @04:46PM
Indeed. Sounds like you're all kinds of happy to condemn.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Friday December 10 2021, @07:59PM (4 children)
Yes. If Trump had really wanted to piss off the Deep State (tm) he would have pardoned Snowden and Assange. There is no mechanism for blocking or reversing a presidential pardon, so he could have done so unilaterally.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:52PM (1 child)
That just proves how pernicious it is which is why we need to stop voter fraud.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 10 2021, @11:26PM
(Score: 2) by ChrisMaple on Monday December 13 2021, @06:30AM (1 child)
The President can pardon persons accused or convicted of federal crimes. If there are any state charges against someone, the President has no pardon power against those charges.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday December 13 2021, @04:15PM
It's a fair point, but does Delaware have the power to extradite people from Europe?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday December 10 2021, @09:09PM (10 children)
Uhhhh, Hillary Clinton and the DNC made Hillary Clinton and the DNC look bad. Assange only reported the fact.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday December 10 2021, @09:49PM (5 children)
I'm aware of that, but the way politicians think, they plainly don't expect the public to be told about lots of the things they do, as a method of avoiding accountability for the things they do, so the DNC apparatchiks blame Assange for breaking the silence rather than blaming Hillary Clinton and her husband and their friends for doing things that look bad.
This is just one example of a pretty big problem in any social or political structure:
1. All people will do some things they shouldn't have done, either through stupidity or evil. That's pretty much a given in life, and if you think you've never screwed up, you're wrong.
2. The more powerful someone is, the more damage they can do if they foul things up.
3. Ergo, the more powerful someone is, the more they should be held accountable for their actions, so that they're more motivated to be smart and good, and if they're not up to the task of being smart and good they can be more easily replaced by somebody who is (at least for now, before power has gone to their heads). This is worth doing because it improves the behavior of the people involved in that system and the outcomes of whatever that system is trying to accomplish.
4. However, the more powerful someone is, the more they are able to use their power to protect themselves from being held accountable for their actions. And so far, no system ever devised has been able to prevent them from doing so - not corporations, not religions, not academia, not charities, not communists, not monarchies or feudal lords, not republics, not parliamentary democracies, not theocracies, and not anarchists of varying stripes.
5. As a result, powerful people keep fouling things up under lots of different systems of organization, and other people keep paying the price.
How do we solve that? I don't know, but I do know that thinking that groups you personally are connected to or support don't have these problems definitely ain't it.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2) by weilawei on Saturday December 11 2021, @11:26AM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday December 11 2021, @11:48AM (1 child)
Even small relatively-flat groups can be vulnerable. For example, a group of bar buddies where nobody really likes Fred and think he's being creepy towards Sally the barmaid, but Fred is the person with enough spare cash to buy the drinks so they all put up with him (including Sally).
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2) by weilawei on Saturday December 11 2021, @11:58AM
It's true, and an unfortunate aspect of human nature. In that scenario, you have a hierarchy where Sally is less of a person in their minds than Fred is. They are both utilitarian, transactional attitudes, but they're only willing to take advantage of the both of them, rather than address the issue.
If the owner of the bar kicked out customers getting too friendly with the staff during business hours, those friends of Fred wouldn't have a financial incentive to let Fred badger Sally. Unfortunately, the owner is apparently also taking advantage of Sally by not standing up for his employee--again with the hierarchy--because of financial incentive for him to let bad customers abuse his employees in exchange for money. Getting kicked out of every bar because Fred was an asshole would cause those idiots to not be with Fred at a bar.
If Sally wasn't a bartender, but rather a member of their group, Sally could directly address Fred and bring up the issue. Even small amounts of not-flatness can have far-reaching consequences, particularly where resource-based incentives for bad behavior are abundant.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Monday December 13 2021, @04:30PM (1 child)
That is the logic behind the system of checks & balances that the American Founding Fathers set up. But if the Bill Clintons and Rupert Murdochs of the world are playing on the same team against the rest of us then the system of checks & balances has failed; at least, the institutional checks & balances have failed.
Still, it is useful to have metrics or evaluation criteria that help identify parties whose interests are aligned with ours. I submit a couple of mine here for the community's consideration: when all sides of the Establishment close ranks against somebody, especially contrary to law & custom, then it's because that person threatens the comfortable and powerful with actions and/or information that are true. Second, when a person or entity knocks out the Establishment's cherished policy or structure when it would be more profitable to play games with it, there might be a good reason for it ("good," defined as something to the greater public benefit).
By those metrics, Assange, despite any personal foibles he might have or had, was doing a good thing with his work with Wikileaks. Snowden was doing a good thing by exposing how our three-letter agencies have weaponized their capabilities against Americans and their democracy.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Monday December 13 2021, @06:17PM
The original idea was that each man (and in those days, it was all men) was looking out for himself and the good of the country, so by distributing authority among enough men the self-interest of each man would be blunted and thus leave the good of the country as the only force in decision-making. That failed with the establishment of political parties, which made it so it was in each man's self-interest to protect the other politicians on his "team". And once Andrew Jackson established the idea that public money would go to the supporters of the winning political party in the form of patronage jobs and public contracts and such, the US government started demonstrating pretty thoroughly that it was not succeeding at solving the problem I outlined.
And here's the real kicker: The Federalists knew it was a problem. Federalist #10 is all about how to deal with the problems of a group of people with an agenda collectively taking control of more than one piece of the Constitutional government. But the author, probably James Madison, insists that a faction would never be able to coordinate itself over a large geographical area, which proved untrue shortly after the development of a fairly effective national postal system, which was one of the stated purposes of the Constitution and among the very first jobs undertaken by the Washington administration. And factions were able to coordinate even more effectively as better travel and communications technology came into existence, from railroads to telegraphs to telephones and most recently computer networks. So they were very wrong indeed.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @09:57PM (3 children)
But the voters weren't supposed to know about their malfeasance. They would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those pesky WikiLeaks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @10:55PM (2 children)
Um, are we still talking about the gunship shooting up a group of civilians? Or did we move onto a gunship shooting up a group of 1st responders to a missile attack on civilians? Just want to get on the same page.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @04:17AM (1 child)
We are talking about everything exposed by WikiLeaks, regardless of whether it was committed by an in-group or an out-group.
Only focusing on one while making excuses for the other would be hypocritical. Yeah yeah... I must be new here.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @07:34AM
Why will NOONE investigate Benghazi???
(Score: 5, Insightful) by loonycyborg on Friday December 10 2021, @11:11PM (1 child)
Assange isn't US citizen. Yet he's extradited under charge of espionage. I absolutely detest the notion that foreign citizens are supposed to safeguard US secrets even when they're outside of US. That's blatant bullshit. UK should reject this extradition because what Assange did is not a crime in their jurisdiction. Ruling otherwise would infringe upon UK's sovereignty. This would imply their own intelligence workers that gather information about US are eligible for extradition too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @07:20AM
After having pissed off most of Europe, the UK can't afford to piss off the US as well. Assange doesn't mean anything to them, so it's a useful political bargaining chip to gain favor with the current US administration.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday December 10 2021, @06:54PM (13 children)
Yeah, he was *discussing* it because it played well with his fans. Trump said a lot of things that didn't mean anything.
Trump only cares about Trump; there was no way he would stick his neck out to make a political statement that his WOOOO 'MURICA!! fanbase would hate and pardon a "traitor." Unless somebody he didn't like would *really* hate it.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday December 10 2021, @07:01PM (3 children)
Hmm, I suppose I sort of directly contradicted my first sentence with the rest of that post, huh? His fanbase loved it when he flipped off the rest of the Establishment, so talking about pardoning Assange might get him a few minor points for contrariness, as long as he didn't actually do it.
And, y'know, that whole thing where half the time he'd have the exact opposite viewpoint later the same week, so actually expecting his jaw-flapping to mean anything was pointless.
Trump, the White Noise President lol
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday December 13 2021, @04:39PM (2 children)
Trump shut down the Trans-Pacific Partnership [wikipedia.org] as soon as he took office. Bernie Sanders promised he'd do the same thing, but never got a chance after Hillary Clinton and the DNC sabotaged his primary chances. Trump did it.
Let's recall that the TPP was so secret that members of Congress were not allowed to see its provisions, and they were told that they would find out what it entailed once they passed it. When has Congress ever been told to pass such sweeping legislation sight unseen?
Hate Trump. Loathe his personality. Mock his gaffes. Ridicule his mannerisms. But he killed that legislation that would have killed American manufacturing and the American middle class dead.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday December 14 2021, @03:24AM (1 child)
Well, I always assumed he had done at least one thing right while he was in office.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday December 14 2021, @12:55PM
That one thing was an order of magnitude above anything the past four presidents have done for the American people.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by srobert on Friday December 10 2021, @11:07PM (8 children)
It's interesting that the "traitor" is accused of committing "treason" against a nation he's never been a citizen of, and wasn't living in.
(Score: 2) by weilawei on Saturday December 11 2021, @11:30AM (7 children)
Just wait till we get extradited to China for treason.
(Just in case anyone's English is sub-par, my username of multiple decades is an English word, not one from any Asian language. Had a few people assuming my ethnicity and locale on the green site over the years...)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 12 2021, @04:24PM (1 child)
http://dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=weilawei [dict.org]
Really?
(Score: 3, Informative) by tangomargarine on Monday December 13 2021, @07:17AM
Middle English [umich.edu]
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Touché) by tangomargarine on Monday December 13 2021, @07:20AM (4 children)
"Sub-par English" looks just a little bit unfair, considering that when I googled the word, in the first 2 pages I got a single dictionary result, mostly musicians, and some RPG stuff.
And it's a Middle English word.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by weilawei on Monday December 13 2021, @11:51AM (3 children)
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday December 13 2021, @04:55PM (2 children)
Huh. All this time I thought it was un-inflected pinyin [wikipedia.org] and wondered if it was something like, "Danger! Danger!" or "Why, oh Why?!"
It's funny to think the latter could almost be the Old English meaning, in one of those strange parallels that sometimes occur between unrelated languages, such as "Shì" (pronounced "sure") meaning "yes" in English and Mandarin.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by weilawei on Monday December 13 2021, @08:00PM
That's pretty close to the actual meaning. It's used as an interjection like that, to express sorrow/longing. "Old English, from wei lā wei, variant of wā lā wā, literally: woe! lo woe"
(Score: 2) by weilawei on Monday December 13 2021, @08:03PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @11:34PM
Trump and the CIA also discussed plots to assassinate Assange:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/27/senior-cia-officials-trump-discussed-assassinating-julian-assange [theguardian.com]