from the read-three-more-stories-to-earn-a-virtual-taco!-(redeem-via-IRC) dept.
How 'Gamification' of Everything Is Manipulating You (and How to Recognize It):
“Gamification” is the practice of adding game-like elements to non-game contexts. It isn’t new, nor it is always a negative, but it is being aimed at consumers and employees more and more frequently, whether to keep you addicted to an app, motivated at work, or inclined to spend your money on something.
[...] There’s nothing necessarily wrong with making consuming a product or doing a job “fun,” but when marketers and employers are hacking our pleasure centers in ways we don’t fully recognize, that’s manipulation, and that’s not really a game. Below are some of the tricks of the gamification trade, so you can spot it before it happens to you.
Behaviorists’ studies of rats and humans prove that both species are more motivated by intermittent, unpredictable rewards than anticipated ones. Rats will pull the lever more often if they sometimes get a food pellet than if they always get a food pellet, and gamblers would never play a slot machine that returned 89 cents every time they put in a dollar, even though that’s what will happen over time.
Some of the tricks are: Variable rewards and suspense, Manipulating our desire for progress, and Engagement and “streaks”.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @05:54PM (25 children)
Don't mod this comment up: I'd hate to think my commenting on this site was manipulated by the reward of upvotes!
Don't get me started on the vanity of logged in users who need a name attached to every wad of text they leave lying around ...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @05:58PM (1 child)
Like!
(Score: 2) by driverless on Saturday January 22 2022, @09:07AM
Wish I had mod points.
Hey, wait a minute...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Freeman on Thursday January 20 2022, @06:01PM (2 children)
In the event that you count "up votes" as gamification. I would say they are part of the "not always negative". Certainly better than some systems, but could be better perhaps. I like it the way it is, please don't break it.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday January 22 2022, @01:04AM (1 child)
I see few, if any, of you predate the digital age. I didn't notice it until the '90s, never knew it had a name. Lots worse this century.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday January 24 2022, @05:00PM
Feels like a "with a computer" type of problem. Participation awards are a thing, right? And/or monetary incentives to do x thing? Making a job "fun" has been in the corporate playbook for years. This is just a "with a computer" kind of problem. Now, it may be much more insidious than that, but it's all part of the same system. The wring the workers out for all they're worth system.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 5, Informative) by maxwell demon on Thursday January 20 2022, @06:03PM (19 children)
Of course upvotes are not meant as a reward, but to help future readers to more easily find good comments.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @07:45PM
“Good” comments. Objectively no such thing. I think you mean some very motivated people’s idea of how everyone else ought to think.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @08:12PM (15 children)
Admit it, you want to be upvoted!
(Score: 4, Touché) by maxwell demon on Thursday January 20 2022, @08:17PM (14 children)
You can't upvote me, you only can upvote my comments.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 21 2022, @02:46AM (13 children)
But to all readers, Mr. Demon, your comments are what you are.
Coming for you, janrinok!
Signed, aristarchus, (who no longer can post.)
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Friday January 21 2022, @06:39AM
In that case, my comments have no will, as they are just pieces of text. In particular they don't want to get upvoted.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 5, Informative) by janrinok on Friday January 21 2022, @06:51AM (11 children)
You seem to have a difficulty in understanding why you cannot post.
You are not banned or prevented from posting by SoylentNews. You have a moderation ban only.
You are using an IP (via a proxy or VPN) which is banned from a multitude of sites by organisations such as Spamhaus and others. The IP is banned because it is also used for malware, spam, exploits and other criminal behaviour. Stop acting like a victimised innocent party when we have told you several times what the problem is. CHANGE YOUR VPN!
Read https://www.spamhaus.org/xbl/ [spamhaus.org] and https://www.spamhaus.org/dbl/ [spamhaus.org], understand what they are is saying, and sort your end out.
Don't threaten me. Just be very sure of what you are considering doing.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 21 2022, @08:39AM (10 children)
Strange, then, how I can change my IP, and still be banned from commenting because of my username? Or are all the IP addresses that are not tied to cell phone numbers banned by SoylentNews? Thanks for the editorial orchestrated mod bombing, janrinok!
Soylentil formerly known as aristarchus
(Score: 5, Informative) by janrinok on Friday January 21 2022, @12:58PM (9 children)
I have no idea what IP address you are using so I cannot answer your question. I have a hash which tells me nothing about you. We have no idea whether you are using a phone, tablet, laptop, desktop or 2 tin cans joined by string. We simply don't care. We don't want to know who you are or where you live. We are not collecting data for anyone else. We just want to keep the site functioning and the stories coming.
You are free to submit stories just like anyone else. If we don't think that they should be on the front page you are always free to put them in your journal. You can publish whatever you like providing it is legal. You can still get karma for comments in a journal. You are not being silenced, censored, or having your right to express your opinions on this site - but they are subject to the same rules as everyone else and therefore can be moderated as others see fit. Nobody is entitled to control discussions by the use of fake accounts or sock puppets.
Don't just change your IP address - CHANGE YOUR VPN. I can only tell you this so many times before I will assume that you are simply being obstructive. If you are still using the one you had problems with a few weeks ago then ditch them. The entire site is used mainly by Russian criminals and many of their IP addresses are on the banned list.
Now if you want to give me your IP address I could look up why you are having problems. Or better still you can just look up the information yourself but then, of course, you could not play the victim.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday January 21 2022, @02:33PM
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 21 2022, @08:48PM (6 children)
Are you saying that aristarchus is being punished because of admin's unsubstantiated accusations of using sockpuppets? Have admin encouraged down-modding based on these rumors? So aristarchus is being blackballed, and censored, and dare we say it, "cancelled"??
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday January 21 2022, @09:28PM
The users associated with the sock puppets that were disabled were all sent messages explaining why they were being banned. They were invited to contact us for further information. None of them chose to do so. Probably because they don't exist.....
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday January 21 2022, @09:41PM (4 children)
Aristarchus is not being restricted in any way other than a temporary moderation ban. He has had submissions accepted and included on the Main Page - but he still complained even about that!
He should look at what he has submitted and what was accepted and then do more of the same. How can he be "being blackballed, and censored, and dare we say it, "cancelled"??" if we have published one of his stories within the last couple of days? Furthermore, he can publish whatever he wishes in his journal. Do pay attention, AC, if you wish to play.
However, for you AC this off-topic conversation here is closed. You can continue it by emailing us at the usual address.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 21 2022, @11:33PM (3 children)
Hmm, almost nothing of what janrinok says is true? Ari can't post. He is banned. Go ahead, ask me how I know this.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 22 2022, @05:57AM (2 children)
OK. How do you know this?
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday January 23 2022, @08:46AM
Well, what a surprise. A day later and no response from the AC who wanted us to challenge him.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by aristarchus on Tuesday January 25 2022, @11:32AM
Because I AM aristarchus, and my wife is, too! Janrinok is a bit slow on the uptake. Check in next week.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 26 2022, @02:02PM
.... now I have to work out if I can somehow use two cans and string to interface with SN ....
...
...
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday January 21 2022, @03:47PM (1 child)
Wait . . . um . . . confused . . . aren't upvotes meant to indicate your worth as a human being?
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 21 2022, @05:00PM
No, that's karma. Moderation is God's will expressed through his earthly puppets. Embrace atheism, turn it all off.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Barenflimski on Thursday January 20 2022, @06:26PM (2 children)
I find streaks absolutely annoying. I know they mean nothing. I understand why I shouldn't care one bit about them. But, for whatever reason, I like streaks. I have an ATT account I can't seem to bring myself to drop because they always tell me, "you've been a customer with us for 2 decades and are in our special club for people like you". And don't get me started on this /. software.
I believe the "people like you part" for sure and know I'm one of them morons. I know I'm totally getting played. What is it about streaks!
Maybe I need some streak-alin or oxy-nostreak pills.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 21 2022, @04:12AM
Maybe some numbers on how much money you will save if you get rid of ATT can break that streak.
ATT single line unlimited is $75/mo now. So, if you are not on some sort of family plan, you will save at least, $50 per month by switching away from ATT. $600 per year free money. 20 months and you can e.g., buy a macbook air with the savings. Or, better yet, just invest the savings and retire that much sooner.
Visible (MVNO owned by Verizon) has unlimited voice, text, and real* unlimited data for $25/mo if you head over to https://old.reddit.com/r/VisiblePartyPay/ [reddit.com] (or mobile: https://i.reddit.com/r/VisiblePartyPay/ [reddit.com] ) and find a "party pay" group to join. There is no real tie to the group, you get your own separate bill, and you have no financial responsibility for others in the group. The group I use has several thousand members now (as long as there are at least 4 members, you get the $25/mo price).
If you only need voice and text, you can find plans on other MVNO carriers for around $10/mo with enough data to use a map app / look up something once in a while. $15/mo can get you a few gigs of data/mo with unlimited voice and text.
Using an MVNO may not work well in some areas, though.**
* "real unlimited" meaning, no data cap and no throttling. Tethered traffic is throttled to 5Mb/s, but the detection is trivial to bypass. I get 75Mb/s down and 25Mb/s up when I tether.
** MVNO customer traffic is deprioritized by the real carrier (ATT, T-Mobile or Verizon) when the real carrier is congested-- e.g., Mint Mobile which uses T-Mobile towers was useless in my area due to frequent severe deprioritization). But, deprioritization on Visible hasn't been a problem here (yet?).
(Score: 3, Funny) by mcgrew on Saturday January 22 2022, @01:10AM
I thought you streakers [wikipedia.org] were only around in 1974?
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 3, Insightful) by istartedi on Thursday January 20 2022, @06:47PM
Cashier: Are you playing Monopoly?
Me: (deadpan) No. I'm grocery shopping.
OK. I haven't actually done this one, but I've thought about it.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @07:14PM (5 children)
and those endorphins that get pumped out when that happens are just unicorn farts
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @07:17PM (4 children)
waiting for the upvotes, like a junkie waiting for the man
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @08:04PM (3 children)
NIGGERS.
Can I have my downvote now, you fucking Jews?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @08:14PM (2 children)
Fucking Jews are - by definition - doing something more worthwhile than reading SN.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @10:48PM (1 child)
You're right, Jew. They're administering it.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by khallow on Friday January 21 2022, @03:16AM
Hurr hurr hurr
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday January 20 2022, @07:23PM (7 children)
Company / person XYZ proposes something to you, or asks you to do something. First question in the critical thinker's mind should be: why? What's their angle? Why are they asking me that this way or not some other way? Why now?
Usually you'll find the answer is greed. Pure, unconcerned-by-morals greed driving this seemingly attractive proposition. And then the proposition doesn't look so attractive anymore, because it suddenly looks like you're being taken for a dandelion.
Beware though: this simple automatic act of questioning the motives of whoever engages with you in any way can quickly turn you into a bitter cynic. Because the truth is, besides your loved ones, your immediate family (assuming your family members aren't ungrateful sumbitches) and your best friends, almost nobody will engage with your for purely gratuitous purposes.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Thursday January 20 2022, @08:30PM (1 child)
Actually for most people the ultimate motive isn't greed, it's ego. Increasing their monetary wealth is just a way to support their ego. Those same people will happily spend a lot of money if whatever they pay for sufficiently serves their ego.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday January 21 2022, @03:28AM
On themselves. Note that this includes philanthropic spending - one of the biggest ego strokers of all.
It really depends on context whether engagement is just for ego or first for money, later for ego.
A lot of people who don't need money work anyway, and the fact that they're paid money for their work is strong support for their self esteem / ego.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday January 20 2022, @08:44PM
Yeah I was going to write a post asking if I'm unusual in being so jaded and cynical that none of the usual corporate gimmicks seem to work on me. Anything that doesn't involve (in the case of an employer) throwing significantly more money my way, or (in the case of a vendor) cutting prices to a level that I consider great value for money, is likely to leave me feeling indignant and patronized. 99.9% of businesses are out to maximize profit and employee output and minimize expenditure. If they want to do business with me, I don't want any bullshit in a pathetic attempt to try to obfuscate that ethos.
I can make an exception for the odd occasion I deal with genuine not-for-profits (Hello, SoylentNews! =) ), bona fide charities, and the rare case where someone actually does appear to be taking real pride in their work or their passion project.
I'm obviously not that unusual, so thanks Rosco, you've brightened up my day marginally.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Thursday January 20 2022, @09:33PM (2 children)
I make that argument about Google providing docs and mail as at least partially a public service (and research testbed). If it was all about the money, they could serve even tiny ads on those pages like the rest of the web does, but they don't.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Thursday January 20 2022, @10:38PM
More money in scanning the docs and then advertising it back at you...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday January 20 2022, @10:40PM
They don't have to: they make plenty of money monetizing the data you kindly provide them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @10:06PM
well you could say it gives me pleasure but it IS fun to argue, like debate, especially if you can see a heavy brain-clog liften and the world seemingly getting more luminessensed around their heads ... and the sound of really honest, near animalistic "aaaah!" escaping them. very statisfying indeed :)
note: some clogs are welded-in unfortunatly :(
(Score: 4, Interesting) by EJ on Thursday January 20 2022, @07:52PM (3 children)
If you're happy, maybe don't go looking for things to be upset about.
Is Mountain Dew trying to manipulate me? Maybe? Do I care? No. I'm going to drink it anyway because I like it.
I actually know a guy who got his wife to go fishing with him. She ended up having fun and started going with him more often. One of her idiot friends told her that he manipulated her into enjoying going fishing with him. Seriously? He "manipulated" her into being happy spending time with him. THE HORROR!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @08:43PM (1 child)
Mountain Dew!!! You drink that piss?? Ugh...it doesn't even have any alcohol in to kill the germs so it's worse than Budweiser or Coors. I wouldn't drink any of them.
(Score: 2) by EJ on Thursday January 20 2022, @08:52PM
I don't like the taste of alcohol.
(Score: 4, Informative) by jelizondo on Friday January 21 2022, @12:41AM
Maybe you don't actually like Mountain Dew, you just like the brand. [nih.gov]
Interesting study, worth two minutes reading the abstract.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @07:58PM
------ Terry A. Davis -------
. King, RIP .
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @08:08PM
How about that? Just find a nice tall and buff black man and say, "can I suck your cock?"
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Thursday January 20 2022, @09:20PM (2 children)
If you consider a game that was designed as a pure demonstration of gamification [bogost.com] with no purpose, you can better examine its elements and assembly. You can even opt-in to play it (or were able to, anyway).
(Score: 4, Insightful) by EJ on Thursday January 20 2022, @09:33PM (1 child)
I prefer http://progressquest.com/ [progressquest.com]
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday January 20 2022, @11:10PM
I had progressquest running for a week once.
(Score: 2) by mrpg on Thursday January 20 2022, @09:39PM
Paypal gifted me five dollars today, must be this.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 20 2022, @10:26PM (1 child)
FIRST POST! What do I win??!
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday January 21 2022, @12:52AM
Nothing, you're supposed to spell it "FRIST".
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 21 2022, @02:07AM
I first heard the term, 'gamification,' from John Romero in some interview. I don't equate, 'gamification,' with dopamine circuit manipulation.
I first learned from Robert Sapolsky that the dopamine circuit is not a, 'reward,' circuit; but, rather a, 'motivational/anticipatory,' circuit. It was always hypothesized that dopamine had something to do with rewarding an organisms behavior because of mouse experiments and drugs; but, those mice were basically being tortured. I think it's called, 'rat park,' experiment. When they treated the rats like actual living creatures, they really had more or less a chance of becoming habituated to the intake of a particular substance.
However, if you are a company, and you want to make a profit, it would probably not be hard to devise a way to create the, 'slot machine,' experience. Give a small reward, at random, intermittently, and infrequently, and you'll drive up the motivation.
If you've ever been on the, 'Twitch,' platform, watching people do their thing, you'll notice that little gift box under the chat that twitches every now and then and turns green, so you can get channel points. lol. THAT is exactly what they are doing, gaming your dopamine circuit.
Gamification, to me, is more about making something engaging. Like a science chemistry class, for example, could be really, really, boring and tedious; but, the right kind of teacher who can, 'game it up in there,' a bit, could stand to really engage their students, to the benefit of all.
What the slutlords are doing is called, 'casinofication,' ie: loot boxes, points, etc.. etc..
The ancestor to casinofication was probably MMORPG's that you could level your character to level 90 by spending literally 6 gaming months on a character; that was definitely a way to keep that monthly subscription money coming in; but, that's arguably more just offering the customer an alternate world to live in, on the cheap; which, could be good or bad, depending on how you approach it.
Anandamide is probably more related to the reward circuit. However, it's doubtful anything is really quite so simple; everything is probably very interconnected up there...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 21 2022, @08:54PM
I can't wait to get to the end of SoylentNews so I can face the Boss! Been practicing my triple mojo attack! Gonna collect them all!