Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Thursday February 10 2022, @01:53AM   Printer-friendly
from the use-a-bigger-hammer dept.

Making installed train windows permeable to mobile-phone signals:

Train riders expect to have a good internet connection while on board, yet the insulated window panes currently used on trains interfere with wireless signals. For now, railway companies get around this problem by equipping each railcar with a signal booster, or repeater. But repeaters are expensive boxes that consume a lot of power, are environmentally un-friendly and must be replaced every time there's a new advance in wireless technology.

[...] One-third of the power used by railcars goes to their heating and cooling systems, which means that effective insulation is essential. Around ten years ago, railway companies began adding an ultra-thin metal coating to windows that can double railcars' energy efficiency—but it also prevents wireless signals from getting through. Railway companies and mobile operators therefore decided to install repeaters in each railcar so that passengers can use their connected devices while on board.

[...] But most railcars today are not ready to be replaced yet—each one has a useful life of around 30 years. The researchers therefore came up with a portable version of their system than can be used directly on existing railcars.

[...] The nu glass system consists of a laser housed within a portable casing that operators attach to a train window. The laser can engrave a single window in around 15 minutes and an entire railcar in just a few hours.


Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by optotronic on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:36AM

    by optotronic (4285) on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:36AM (#1220119)

    I read the article since the summary left me confused. The gist is the company "nu glass" developed a laser system to engrave metal-coated train windows (coated to improve insulating ability) to allow cell signals to pass through without affecting thermal insulation. Seems like a good idea, although I wait for data to see how it compares with the cell-signal repeaters currently in use.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by krishnoid on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:47AM (1 child)

    by krishnoid (1156) on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:47AM (#1220120)

    Not directly related, but circa August 2019, Google docs made their offline editing mode official and a lot more reliable. I had the opportunity on a train to try editing a Google Drawing on a laptop, while tethered via a cell phone with a very, very unreliable and only periodically available cellular data connection while the train passed through rural areas. While the indicator at the top of the webpage kept cycling between "all changes saved" to "saving ..." to "offline mode", the in-browser editor for the drawing itself *never* hung or showed delays.

    Once we landed, as expected, the changes had automatically been saved when the cell data connection had been available for less than a minute while finishing up. Really says something that a free, reasonably powerful, no-install product can still reliably save work-in-progress online under those circumstances.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:08PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:08PM (#1220188)
      Ye have great faith brother!
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:49AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:49AM (#1220121)

    With a repeater in the car, I can has uninterrupted connectivity.
    Communicating with cell towers along the ways means the connection is renegotiated every time my car is going out from the coverage of one cell and into the coverage of another. 5G doesn't bring only covids but also smaller cell sizes - that is to say larger bandwidth won't help much when one switches cells more often.

    Fucking train operators better keep stay uptodate with their repeater technology.
    Also, why is this not a problem with the bus windows?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @05:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @05:55PM (#1220261)

      Bus windows are typically single pane so the don't have the metallic coating on them.

  • (Score: 4, Funny) by tangomargarine on Thursday February 10 2022, @03:54AM (4 children)

    by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday February 10 2022, @03:54AM (#1220130)

    Making Installed Train Windows Permeable

    As opposed to what, train windows that *aren't* installed? They're free-floating, or removed whenever they get to a new station, or something?

    My first thought before I went back and tried to re-parse it a couple times, seeing "installed" and "windows", was that this was a computing article.

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @04:22AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @04:22AM (#1220133)

      its done in situ, so you dont have to take them out of the train to do it, or do it before the train is built.

      • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @06:23AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @06:23AM (#1220141)

        Is this a British Train Thing, in which case it is not important, unless we are considering platform 9 3/4ths, or a Euro Train thing, where it might actually matter? Everyone knows there are no passenger trains of consequence in the United States of Assholery.

        • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:43PM

          by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:43PM (#1220196) Journal

          There are important passenger train routes in the US. They are in the Northeast, the DC/Philly/NY/Boston routes. They have a significant number of riders and make up the majority of Amtrak's ticket revenue.

    • (Score: 2) by jb on Friday February 11 2022, @02:35AM

      by jb (338) on Friday February 11 2022, @02:35AM (#1220409)

      Making Installed Train Windows Permeable

      As opposed to what, train windows that *aren't* installed?

      It is usually not a good idea to confuse make all with make install

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by ledow on Thursday February 10 2022, @08:18AM (1 child)

    by ledow (5567) on Thursday February 10 2022, @08:18AM (#1220153) Homepage

    "But repeaters are expensive boxes that consume a lot of power, are environmentally un-friendly and must be replaced every time there's a new advance in wireless technology."

    What kind of junk are you buying?

    And I bet they're a damn sight cheaper than replacing the glass in every pane in every train, which would still need repeaters etc. if you want to provide on-board wireless anyway. Sure, it might help you get 4G or a signal at the station, but when you're moving you still need repeaters (or, more accurately, just some commercial wired access points in each carraige).

    If you're having that much of a problem, you can hire me and I'll wire and wireless your trains for you.

    • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:49PM

      by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Thursday February 10 2022, @02:49PM (#1220197) Journal

      The value proposition of this technology is that they don't have to replace or even remove the glass. They suction cup this gizmo on, flip the switch, and 15 minutes later move it to another window.

      At $2k per railcar (assumption) to upgrade to 5g repeaters and knowing they have a max service life of about 5 years (assumption) it isn't hard to cost justify a $100k (assumption) piece of kit that can do hundreds (assumption) of cars and once done they don't require any repeaters in the future.

      Per Wikipedia, Amtrak has ~1,400 passenger cars.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @08:37AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @08:37AM (#1220154)

    RF travels through glass no problems-- alternating current sees a capacitor ("ultra-thin metal coating to windows") as a short. (See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxODc-GmLBM) [youtube.com]
    What this company is doing is etching the metal coating to be resonant on Mobile frequencies.

    ...which must be replaced every time there's a new advance in wireless technology that used different frequencies.

  • (Score: 4, Funny) by driverless on Thursday February 10 2022, @10:46AM (1 child)

    by driverless (4770) on Thursday February 10 2022, @10:46AM (#1220159)

    railway companies began adding an ultra-thin metal coating to windows that can double railcars' energy efficiency—but it also prevents wireless signals from getting through.

    OK, that's two benefits, so where's the downside?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @04:54PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @04:54PM (#1220242)

      Agreed. I'm going to research this window insulation for my home's windows right now.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @01:08PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @01:08PM (#1220172)

    Microsoft tried making windows work with mobile phones, to no avail.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @01:36PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @01:36PM (#1220180)

    One-third of the power used by railcars goes to their heating and cooling systems

    WTF? Heating should cost 0, like in cars. Air conditioning shouldn't waste away 33%. But let's assume it does, so we can get to the second WTF

    metal coating to windows that can double railcars' energy efficiency

    efficiency = p(out) / p(in) which is always lower than 1

    Let's say you lose nothing except of air conditioning and heating, that would mean efficiency is now 67%. How can you double that?

    Oh, you mean the _other_ efficiency, the one measured in "as efficient as it would take a 4 year old to cross something as big as a football field"? Sure, you can do anything with that one. Double, triple it even, it is a "quantum blockchain AI" after all, can do anything it wants and you can't say anything against it because that would make you a racist!

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by ElizabethGreene on Thursday February 10 2022, @03:03PM (4 children)

      by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Thursday February 10 2022, @03:03PM (#1220201) Journal

      Amtrak uses electric power to heat and cool the passenger cars. More about "Head End Power" (HEP) here: https://utahrails.net/pass/amtrak-hep.php [utahrails.net]

      It would be difficult to heat "for free". They'd have to have supply and return hot water hoses to each car and even with that it would still be pretty cold by the time it got to the end of a long train.

      Innovation is not Amtrak's strong suit. They were still dumping sewage on the tracks on long-haul passenger trains as late as the 1990s and it took a lawsuit from the state of Florida to get them to stop.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @05:01PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @05:01PM (#1220244)

        And airplanes are not immune to the occasional dump of "blue ice", even today.
        https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/airplane-waste/ [ripleys.com]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @05:58PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @05:58PM (#1220263)

          Those are accidents, not standard practice.

          • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Friday February 11 2022, @04:33AM (1 child)

            by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Friday February 11 2022, @04:33AM (#1220431) Journal

            Planes: Correct. Amtrak's dumping was not an accident. There was literally a PVC pipe from the toilet through the floor that hung down below the car. It had a red circle painted around the end of it so you wouldn't confuse it with any of the other mechanical works.

            • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Friday February 11 2022, @06:32AM

              by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Friday February 11 2022, @06:32AM (#1220442)

              Some UK trains were still doing this until a year or two ago. (Now it's toilets with retaining tanks, or no toilet at all. The latter is practical for short commuter routes.)

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @09:34PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 10 2022, @09:34PM (#1220332)

    wah! really? couldn't include free wifi in the (already) expensive train ticket?

(1)