Hypersonic Missile Possibly Used for the First Time in Combat
Russia claims to use a hypersonic missile in attack on arms depot in Ukraine.
Russia has fired scores of guided missiles into Ukraine, but on Saturday it claimed for the first time that it had launched one capable of hypersonic speed in an attack on an ammunition depot in western Ukraine. The report could not be independently verified, but if true could be the first use of a hypersonic weapon in combat.
Hypersonics, generally defined as weapons capable of flying at speeds over Mach 5, or five times the speed of sound, are at the center of an arms race among the United States, Russia and China.
[...] A spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry, Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, said hypersonic missiles, called Kinzhals, had destroyed the underground warehouse storing Ukrainian missiles and aviation ammunition in the western Ivano-Frankivsk region of Ukraine.
Yuriy Ignat, a spokesman for Ukraine's military, confirmed Saturday that Russian forces had hit an underground warehouse in western Ukraine but said the type of missile involved "is yet to be determined."
Russia Reports First Use of Hypersonic Missile
Russia reports first use of hypersonic missile:
The Russian military says it used its latest hypersonic missile, Kinzhal, for the first time in combat during its offensive in Ukraine. The Kinzhal is a nuclear-capable hypersonic aero-ballistic air-to-ground missile.Spokesman for the Russian Defence Ministry Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said the hypersonic missiles destroyed an underground warehouse storing missiles and aviation ammunition of Ukrainian troops in the western Ivano-Frankivsk region.
Second Kinzhal Missile Fired
Russia has claimed that a 2nd hypersonic missile ("Kinzhal" - dagger) was used on 20 Mar against "a Ukrainian fuel depot in Kostiantynivka near the Black Sea port of Mykolaiv."
Related Stories
Russia says it has test-fired another hypersonic missile
The Russian navy on Saturday conducted another test of a prospective hypersonic missile, a demonstration of the military's long-range strike capability amid the fighting in Ukraine.
The Defense Ministry said the Admiral Gorshkov frigate of the Northern Fleet in the White Sea launched the Zircon cruise missile in the Barents Sea, successfully hitting a practice target in the White Sea about 1,000 kilometers (540 nautical miles) away.
[...] Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that Zircon is capable of flying at nine times the speed of sound and has a range of 1,000 kilometers (620 miles). Putin has emphasized that its deployment will significantly boost the capability of Russia's military.
Previously: Russia Reports First Combat Use of Hypersonic Missiles
US Tested Hypersonic Missile but Kept It Quiet to Avoid Escalating Tensions With Russia
(Score: 4, Insightful) by driverless on Monday March 21 2022, @02:37PM (17 children)
Those things are damn expensive and Soviet... I mean Putinist Russia doesn't have a lot of them, it seems like rather a waste to use them in Ukraine when a generic 3M54 would work just as well. So it looks more like a live weapons test than serious use of a hypersonic missile, "may as well test some of the sumbitches while we've got the chance".
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday March 21 2022, @03:13PM (1 child)
Not only that, but two regular missiles were also used; all three synced at impact time.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by driverless on Tuesday March 22 2022, @02:13AM
They were clever there, if their expensive hypersonic toy fails to work as intended because 99% of the money paid for it was siphoned into an oligarch's yacht and the missile was built mostly with parts off Aliexpress, there's no way to tell because the 3M54 or whatever they used will have covered up any evidence.
For once a military using weapons built by a corrupt kleptocracy isn't such a bad thing...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Immerman on Monday March 21 2022, @03:46PM (8 children)
Agreed. There's not a whole lot of point in using a hypersonic missile in the absence of a missile defense system that could intercept slower missiles.
My money is on some combination of a field test and saber-rattling/dick-waving.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Monday March 21 2022, @04:04PM (2 children)
It also 'demonstrates' the ability to deliver an air-launched (potentially nuclear) weapon from within Russian airspace to anywhere in Poland which, if it is truly hypersonic will cause a major problem for western air defences.
If they fly over Belarus or Ukraine then they can reach well into Germany.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21 2022, @09:05PM
These are air-to-ground missiles. If we actually went to war with Russia, taking air superiority removes these completely off the table. Another problem for Russia is that these weapons have not been seen in combat anywhere near their unclassified specification. Given Russia's proven track record of over-promising and under-delivering when it comes to their military combined with the otherwise tactically pointless use here, it is likely that the missiles are much less of a threat than Russia would like us to believe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 22 2022, @01:06AM
Textbook Maskirovka! [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday March 21 2022, @04:09PM (2 children)
Most of the Ukraine invasion is a weapons/will-to-use-them demonstration. Like a military parade.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 22 2022, @04:59AM (1 child)
I expect better from a parade. The rusted out junk they are showing off is disgraceful, and breaking down halfway isn't a good look either.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 22 2022, @10:27AM
I don't know whether to believe the "Putin was advised that this would be a six day war" press or not... Seems likely that was the case; there was a lot of international support of Ukraine in the months leading up to the invasion, and I think his advisors didn't take any of that into account.
The junk didn't start falling apart until after about a week in the field.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday March 21 2022, @04:24PM
(Score: 3, Interesting) by khallow on Monday March 21 2022, @04:31PM
Apparently, cruise missiles can and have been intercepted [cnn.com] in the Ukraine. Link is to a CNN video of a site from a cruise missile that was claimed to have been shot down, but with the warhead still active - creating a large crater when it hit ground.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21 2022, @03:57PM (5 children)
The first one seems unlikely to be true:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44840/we-have-questions-about-russias-claimed-kinzhal-hypersonic-missile-use-in-ukraine [thedrive.com]
Don't know if anyone's analyzed the second one yet.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday March 21 2022, @05:04PM (4 children)
Yes, that is interesting. The thing that no one seems to have mentioned is, NATO could deny or confirm hypersonic flight easily. Someone, somewhere, probably several someones, were watching radar screens during the attack. Someone would have commented, "HOLY SHIT! That bogey is moving at Mach x!" And, that information was fed up the chain of command, all the way to heads of state, the Pentagon, and every important command post in Europe.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Hartree on Monday March 21 2022, @06:12PM (3 children)
Just measuring the speed is not quite so clear.
Many countries have weapons that travel at a speed that's "hypersonic'. They're called ballistic missiles. In fact, that's what this was. The Kinzhall is an Iskander M (SS-26 Stone) missile that's been modified to be launched from a high flying aircraft. It normally flies at about Mach 6 or so at the highest speed on its flight.
The Russians have been using large numbers of Iskander M missiles in Ukraine already. The advantage of the Kinzhal is that launching it from high altitude gives it much greater range, just like putting a howitzer on a mountain gives it increased range.
Given that all of Ukraine is already within the range of various Russian precision guided missiles, this is of limited use and is more of a test/propaganda than a real game changer.
When people talk of hypersonic weapons they more usually are meaning hypersonic glide weapons or powered flight hypersonic weapons which can maneuver a lot as they travel to the target at that speed and would be even harder to intercept.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 22 2022, @05:05AM (2 children)
Ballistic missiles follow a high ballistic (arcing) trajectory, while hypersonic missiles are winged and follow a flat trajectory like other cruise missiles. That's what gives them their range, not just the starting altitude. In any case, any military tracking system worth its salt can tell the difference in flight profiles.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 22 2022, @09:52PM (1 child)
** sigh ** Hypersonic glide vehicles require a booster stage. [astronomy.com]
You clearly know how an HGV achieves that altitude, curious you didn't say. Still: Kinzhal is an air-launched ballistic missile and not an HGV!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 23 2022, @07:42AM
I thought the article was about a different weapon system. I was wrong. Sorry for the noise.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21 2022, @02:56PM
First intentional deaths you mean.
Americans and Russians have been dying on rocket launches for decades.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21 2022, @03:20PM (4 children)
It hardly matters if the Kinzhal did that damage or not. The point is that this makes the news and distracts from other topics, eg. the Russian stock market just opened for the first time since the attack on Ukraine started--but only for Russian gov't bonds. They aren't exactly confidence inspiring at this time with the interest rate spiking as high as 20%. Stocks might be trading in Moscow soon, likely another disaster.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60821258 [bbc.com]
Any gamblers here looking for risky-but-high-return bonds?
As you consider this investment, remember that all of Russia has a smaller economy (GNP) than New York State. NY State bonds are currently rated AA+ -- safe and steady as she goes.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21 2022, @03:27PM
Which have the earlier expiration date, the bonds or Putin?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21 2022, @03:34PM (1 child)
I don't think Russian missile news distracts from Russian economy news. If anything, it attracts more attention.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday March 21 2022, @05:12PM
In the Russian media...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 22 2022, @05:09AM
NY state bonds pay out in US$. Russian war bonds pay out in Roubles. I fully expect them to inflate their way out of the debt like the Wiemar Republic did after WWI, assuming the sanctions don't crater it to nothing beforehand.
(Score: 2, Funny) by DannyB on Monday March 21 2022, @03:38PM (4 children)
For sail: Russian tank. Needs repairs. Only $145 US DOLLARS, or will trade for working Ukrainian farm tractor.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21 2022, @03:48PM (1 child)
For sail:?
Tanks don't float well.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21 2022, @04:01PM
Sail/Sale could have been an attempt at mimicking how Russians type English?
I bought a gadget recently on eBay for $5 and when it arrived a few weeks later from China it didn't work correctly. Wrote to the seller and he offered me a refund, but said he couldn't pay me now--the seller claimed he was Russian (item drop shipped from China) and eBay/PayPal have locked down payments.
His English in the eBay-email had that kind of typo/error.
I'm writing off my $5, don't expect to see that again. The gadget makes a nice story now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21 2022, @03:50PM
Would you consider a working LADA?
(Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Monday March 21 2022, @04:45PM
Be sure to take advantage of any tax incentives available!
Ukraine authorities say seized Russian tanks don’t need to be declared on tax form [theguardian.com]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday March 22 2022, @05:34PM (1 child)
I am a little surprised that the US never developed hypersonic missiles through all the Cold War and the massive military spending and development that has really never stopped. Is it not cost effective, or was there never a bona fide military need for them?
I don't follow DARPA or the military industrial complex that closely--Jane's is not on my book shelf.
Are there Soylentils who are more familiar with the subject who can explain?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 22 2022, @11:47PM
There's not really a need for them. The idea of hypersonic missiles is that they are hard to intercept, but beyond that, they don't really add much capability. Since only the US and Israel have good* missile defense systems, the US doesn't really need this kind of weapon.
Even the "hypersonic" missiles currently in service with China and Russia are only barely worth the name. China's are cut-down ICBMs rather than the sort of tactical weapons that could be fired in a typical battle. The idea is that missiles fired from heavily defended bases inside China could land in the vicinity of an aircraft carrier in the China Sea, close enough to knock it out with a nuclear weapon. If conventionally armed, it might not be accurate enough. Russia's are really an air launched version of the Stone surface to surface missile, which is the successor to the famous-for-the-wrong-reasons Scud. Because the missile is coming down rather than going up, it can go a lot faster. But it's only an evolutionary upgrade. Since it's a giant weapon that has to be air dropped, they can probably only launch it from Bear bombers using special equipment, so again not a very practical weapon, but more of a political statement.
* The Army's Patriot missiles get most of the hype, but the Patriot system is not really very effective. The Navy's Aegis system, which is an umbrella term for a bunch of integrated systems, is much better. Most of the Aegis systems are mounted on ships, but there's Aegis Ashore which the Army doesn't like but is probably the best option. And Israel has the Iron Dome, which is very expensive but seems to be the best available missile defense system right now. I don't think Israel is willing to sell Iron Dome technology to anyone, although I don't know if that is a political matter or one of availability.