https://curlybracket.net/2022/03/31/internet-kids.html
I wanted to understand how kids between 10 and 18 conceive the internet. Surely, we have seen a generation that we call "digital natives" grow up with the internet. Now, there is a younger generation who grows up with pervasive technology, such as smartphones, smart watches, virtual assistants and so on. And only a few of them have parents who work in IT or engineering...
Pervasive technology contributes to the idea that the internet is immaterial
With their search engine website design, Google has put in place an extremely simple and straightforward user interface. Since then, designers and psychologists have worked on making user interfaces more and more intuitive to use. The buzzwords are "usability" and "user experience design". Besides this optimization of visual interfaces, haptic interfaces have evolved as well, specifically on smartphones and tablets where hand gestures have replaced more clumsy external haptic interfaces such as a mouse. And beyond interfaces, the devices themselves have become smaller and slicker. While in our generation many people have experienced opening a computer tower or a laptop to replace parts, with the side effect of seeing the parts the device is physically composed of, the new generation of end user devices makes this close to impossible, essentially transforming these devices into black boxes, and further contributing to the idea that the internet they are being used to access with would be something entirely intangible.
But it seems that some things don't change...
Question: Imagine you could make the internet better for everyone. What would you do first?
Asked what she would change if she could, the 9 year old girl advocated for a global usage limit of the internet in order to protect the human brain. Also, she said, her parents spend way too much time on their phones and people should rather spend more time with their children.
Three of the interviewees agreed that they see way too many advertisements and two of them would like ads to disappear entirely from the web. The other one said that she doesn't want to see ads, but that ads are fine if she can at least click them away.
If we could start again, what design changes would you make for the 'new' internet and how would you want it to be used?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 03 2022, @07:32PM (11 children)
I think the word should have been perceive. All the conceiving happened years and decades ago.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2022, @08:19PM (2 children)
☐ 🇬🇧 English
☒ 🇺🇸 simplified English
This is getting out of control. Now there are two of them.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2022, @08:36PM (1 child)
No conception of contraception.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 05 2022, @05:27PM
No conception
ofwith contraception.ftfy
(Score: 2) by legont on Sunday April 03 2022, @09:48PM (3 children)
Well, the dictionary says:
...
2. form or devise (a plan or idea) in the mind
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 04 2022, @03:58PM
Heck, that's even a classic Blackadder joke (probably from /Blackadder’s Christmas Carol/ if my memory serves me correctly):
Prince George:
What can I do to a woman that I can't do to you?
Blackadder:
I cannot conceive, sir.
(And note, this post is not an example of Skitt's Law, it's entirely deliberate. Unless there's another one, of course.)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by sgleysti on Monday April 04 2022, @08:45PM (1 child)
I would have written "How Do Kids Conceive of the Internet?", but I'm not sure if that's correct.
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday April 06 2022, @04:46AM
According to Webster both are correct, but the article's title reflects the meaning they wanted to better, I believe.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conceive [merriam-webster.com]
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 03 2022, @10:23PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @08:39AM
Maybe perceive, but more likely "conceive of." But have this virtual +0 Pedantic mod.
(Score: 2) by srobert on Tuesday April 05 2022, @03:14AM
Inconceivable!
(Score: 2) by bart9h on Friday April 08 2022, @08:59PM
How do kids deceive the internet?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2022, @07:37PM (3 children)
when a daddy computer and a mommy computer connect and share bits
(Score: 5, Funny) by Phoenix666 on Sunday April 03 2022, @07:52PM (1 child)
As one who was there during the conception I can tell you there was a great deal of yelling, groaning, and cursing. And those were just the perl programmers.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2022, @08:05PM
Ah, so TMB then. Miss him I do.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2022, @08:19PM
this is how we get computer virii
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2022, @08:00PM (10 children)
Make it like HAM Radio. NO COMMERCIALIZATION of the internet.
(Score: 4, Touché) by NateMich on Sunday April 03 2022, @08:13PM (3 children)
That must be why ham radio is so popular.
(Score: 5, Informative) by PinkyGigglebrain on Sunday April 03 2022, @09:44PM
it still has it's diehard supporters thankfully.
In the event of a natural, or man made, disaster that knocks out the Internet, cells phones and other communications channels in and out of the stricken area it is the Hams that get the news out and provide critical information for those organizing rescue efforts outside the affected areas. And in areas where someone else controls the incoming information over the Internet and related channels it is the Ham operators that can provide the truth to the local populations.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 04 2022, @01:08AM (1 child)
If music were permitted, ham radio would be a lot more popular. Or late night talk shows. Ham operators would argue with me, but basically, they are forbidden to use the spectrum for entertainment.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Wednesday April 06 2022, @01:00AM
It would likely devolve quickly into the same shitshow that most AM and FM radio has become.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2022, @08:14PM (4 children)
Great idea, but a bit late. The marketing profiteers now OWN the internet.
(Score: 3, Touché) by mcgrew on Monday April 04 2022, @03:44PM (3 children)
The marketing profiteers now OWN the internet.
Nonsense. I own three sites and you won't see a single ad. See any ads here on S/N? You don't need to look far to see how incorrect that sentence is. Unless, of course, you're one of the fools (none here) who think Facebook or Google is the internet and think their Facebook account is their web page.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday April 04 2022, @06:07PM
Damn, dumbass, use the preview button! Only "I" was supposed to be bolded.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 05 2022, @11:22PM (1 child)
Even your posts have ads...
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday April 09 2022, @03:29PM
The ebooks are all free.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @10:38AM
..also the Amateur Radio condition of 'Real Name Policy' and having your dox available to everyone.
"Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory" *boom* SOLVED!
Sure, there's Hams with severe personality disorders who try to cause havoc-- carrier over other people's transmissions for example-- but like how direction-finding works at busting those guys, uncloakable IP addresses would be the go on BetterHamInternet.
"But I have and I /need/ anonymity and strong Internet crypto and VPNs for the support I needs!"
.. No, you're vulnerable. Go to a IRL, licenced, specialist.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2022, @08:16PM
Complete panopticon, very weird for everyone involved, but you can count on everything getting much worse.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Mojibake Tengu on Sunday April 03 2022, @10:00PM (1 child)
We already had it long time ago. It was called Fidonet.
Respect Authorities. Know your social status. Woke responsibly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @08:35AM
All Fidonet could do was email and a sort of Usenet-like feature, and it cost money to send email. There is no sense in which it was better than the Internet, except that it was more accessible to 8 and 16 bit micros via modem.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by krishnoid on Sunday April 03 2022, @11:35PM
The Internet is a collection of places to go, rather than a "series of tubes." I bet they don't have a sense of the fact that everything is transferred via IP packets, each routed *individually*. If they realized every communication was like a series of postcards going through the US postal mail system, I bet it would blow their mind.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @12:04AM (5 children)
what's a "postcard"?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @12:46AM (2 children)
Inside USA: First-Class Mail® Postcards $0.40
Maximum size: 6 inches long by 4-1/4 inches high by .016 inch thick
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @02:59AM (1 child)
Thanks, Captain Obvious
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @06:28AM
Perfectly good post. Not everyone here is familiar with American terminologies. I am re-humbled every time visit a website written in what to me is a foreign language and know the entire world had to do things our way.
As an American, guilty as any for the nonexistent effort I have made to communicate with others in foreign lands, but cognizant of the effort they have made to communicate with me, I am rather embarrassed.
English has been the language of commerce and money because of World War 2. Had it gone the other way, I suppose Americans would all learn at least German if they wanted any international commerce.
The way things are going these days, I get this idea all of us Americans better start learning Chinese.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 04 2022, @04:03PM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Tuesday April 05 2022, @10:43PM
Usually "sucks to be you, while I'm here"
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday April 04 2022, @03:01AM (1 child)
I'd definitely provide a better way to send a browser's textarea back and forth to an external editor, and to make sure all non-blank textareas are autosaved -- especially when early multi-tab browsers used to crash. Also, maybe using a LISP-like syntax [reddit.com] wouldn't have been so bad compared to how long Javascript has taken to mature.
(Score: 2) by bart9h on Friday April 08 2022, @09:03PM
there are extensions for that
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @09:39AM (2 children)
Use 40-bit addresses instead of 32-bit. 40 bits is enough for a trillion addresses, which is plenty for everyone but still a manageable length for humans. I think that the biggest barrier to IPv6 adoption has been the awkward address scheme. Since no one can remember the addresses, no one wants to use it. Enough end users (and most of the early adopters and people involved in deployment) need to use addresses directly that it's a serious problem.
And besides that... honestly I can't think of anything that wouldn't cause more problems than it solves. We got IP assignment right, DNS right, all the fundamental protocols right. Free software is the greatest cultural achievement of humanity since democracy came back in the 18th century. Any attempt to build in more security or privacy would end up just building in more regulation, obstacles and problems.
Advertising ruins everything it touches, and the reason we have so much advertising is because "if you're not the customer, you're the product," but I don't know any way we could have avoided getting to that place. People want free stuff, and advertising is the only way to pay for it. Problem is, you don't know if something's worth paying for until after you see it, and once you've seen it, you don't need to pay for it. Advertising dodges that problem.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @12:05PM
DNS called and they want .... well, actually it's more than 40 years old so not sure what you are talking about now. How do you get to this site? You type the IP address into your address bar or something? Oh wait, that doesn't even work so .....
wget https://23.239.29.31 [23.239.29.31]
--2022-04-04 14:01:48-- https://23.239.29.31/ [23.239.29.31]
Connecting to 23.239.29.31:443... connected.
ERROR: certificate common name ‘soylentnews.org’ doesn't match requested host name ‘23.239.29.31’.
To connect to 23.239.29.31 insecurely, use `--no-check-certificate'.
and then even if you ignore the cert check, the page has the DNS name embedded everywhere.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Monday April 04 2022, @04:07PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @11:52AM
Teachers can get in trouble in places like Florida, Texas, Virginia, etc., if kids are taught internet conception. Their governors have set up snitch lines for people to turn each other in for lesser than that. You'd like to at least send them home with a pamphlet or book on the topic, but unfortunately they've burned them all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @12:23PM
dns and "static ip" are where the internet evolution branched big time.
methinks, originally, every node/ip was intended to be equal.
today, static ips send more data then they re'eive and dynamic ip receive (consume lol) much more data then they send.
from a time when having a "domain" was so cool people would put them on car number plates.
not all is lost and in the same way modem and router and wifi ap merged into a single device it could evolve into also having enough brains to join and support a "decentralized" dns solution, like a alexa for dns lol.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by DannyB on Monday April 04 2022, @02:35PM (4 children)
For starters: DO NOT allow AOL to connect to the internet.
Add an intelligence test requirement to get a connection.
Remember back in the 80's when only higher education and smart people in corporations (for the most part) were on the internet?
People that ask questions like "isn't AOL and the internet the same thing?" should not be able to get connected. Maybe they shouldn't even have a computer.
Back in the early 1980s I bought totally in to Apple's UI guidelines, and "user friendly". Embraced all the design principles. Read additional books such as "The Design of Everyday Things" (but at the time it was originally published as "The Psychology of Everyday Things"). The underlying principles (such as "affordances", etc) explain how to properly design things from door handles to shower faucet controls properly, not to mention computer interfaces.
Which brings me to now. Looking back four decades. I wonder if it was all a huge gigantic mistake. To invest so much into making computers easy and approachable enough for stupid people to be able to use them.
Maybe I'm a cranky old man now.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday April 04 2022, @06:12PM (2 children)
People that ask questions like "isn't AOL and the internet the same thing?" should not be able to get connected. Maybe they shouldn't even have a computer.
By your own rule space, you shouldn't be allowed on the internet, since you seem to think the internet is all computers are good for. Also, most computers these days are called "phones", not computers.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday April 04 2022, @07:18PM (1 child)
I was speaking about a time past where it began to go wrong.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Monday April 04 2022, @08:22PM
Also at that time, computers were useful for more than the internet. Indeed, computers already existed before the internet was even invented.
And yes, at that time computers already were used by people who didn't properly understand them. Mostly for playing games.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 05 2022, @05:53AM
I just wish we could wrest control of the internet time warp away from those overlords who keep September lasting forever.
(Score: 4, Informative) by mcgrew on Monday April 04 2022, @02:43PM (4 children)
designers and psychologists have worked on making user interfaces more and more intuitive to use
I don't know what kind of designers are being discussed here, because it's certainly not web page designers or you would see none of the following:
Scroll for your state, rather than a two character keyboard input
Scroll for your credit card expiration date (even worse for birth year, even if you're only 20)
Make you type in your city, state, and ZIP when the ZIP is all that's needed, the web page can fill in the city and state
Designing web pages that only show content on the middle part of the screen on a phone
Have photos (worse, ads) covering text (CNN on a phone)
Red on green text (invisible to 5% of the population)
Low contrast; hard for geezers to read
Hundreds of more stupid mistakes you see on commercial sites.
If you're too stupid to design well, no amount of trying will make an easy to navigate and read your web site.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @04:20PM (1 child)
comment: "type city, state AND zip" is actually aimed at geezers who may make mistakes.
it's the "department of redundancy department" stuff.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday April 04 2022, @07:24PM
Some geezers are
insane enoughdetail oriented enough to discover an error in an IRS publication. [soylentnews.org]The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 04 2022, @09:01PM
Regarding CNN, try this: https://lite.cnn.com/en [cnn.com]
It's blissfully simple, like the old days!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 05 2022, @06:06AM
In the US, a ZIP code can cover more than one city. The USPS will have a "preferred" city for each ZIP code, true, and using that to ship a package will see it delivered correctly (assuming the street address, etc. is also correct). However, many customers will freak out if you populate the city field based off the USPS preferred city for the ZIP code instead of the one they "really" live in. If they can't input the address as they know it, you might lose a sale.
Since you should let them enter the city, you'd best let them enter the state as well, because city names get reused among states, and some people will select the wrong state from a dropdown list (off by one errors are common). Oh, and not everyone will remember which two-letter state abbreviation is correct (is MI for Michigan or Minnesota?).
Best to let them enter an address, city, pick a state from the list, enter a ZIP -- and then validate the whole mess against the USPS address database (or a commercially available similar product) for correctness. If it's right, continue; if not, kick it back to the user.
Note that all of this was concerned with data validation only. None of this had to do with user interface.