from the farewell-Talbot-I’ll-no-longer-trust-thee dept.
Insteon finally comes clean about its sudden smart home shutdown:
Smart home company Insteon and its parent company, Smartlabs Inc., suddenly disappeared last week. In what will probably be remembered as one of the most notorious smart home shutdowns ever, Insteon decided to turn off its cloud servers without giving customers any warning at all, surprise-bricking many smart home devices that relied on the Insteon cloud.
[...] Insteon has finally updated its website (archive here) and pinned a goodbye message to the top of every page a full week after its surprise liquidation. The statement—which is not attributed to anyone—says that the company is going out of business because of the pandemic and supply chain problems. The company looked for a buyer but couldn't find one.
The statement reads, in part:
In 2019, the onset of the global pandemic brought unforeseen disruption to the market, but the company continued to move forward. However, the subsequent (and enduring) disruption to the supply chain caused by the pandemic proved incredibly difficult and the company engaged in a sales process in November, 2021. The goal was to find a parent for the company and continue to invest in new products and the technology. The process resulted in several interested parties, and a sale was expected to be realized in the March timeframe. Unfortunately, that sale did not materialize. Consequently, the company was assigned to a financial services firm in March to optimize the assets of the company.
[...] Insteon ends its statement by saying, "We hope that the Insteon community understands the tireless efforts by all the employees to serve our customers, and [we] deeply apologize to the community."
Previous Story: Insteon Looks Dead—Just Like its Users' Smart Homes
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Shameful: Insteon looks dead—just like its users' smart homes
The app and servers are dead. The CEO scrubbed his LinkedIn page. No one is responding.
The entire company seems to have abruptly shut down just before the weekend, breaking users' cloud-dependent smart-home setups without warning. Users say the service has been down for three days now despite the company status page saying, "All Services Online." The company forums are down, and no one is replying to users on social media.
[....] Insteon is (or, more likely, "was") a smart home company that produced a variety of Internet-connected lights, thermostats, plugs, sensors, and of course, the Insteon Hub. At the core of the company was Insteon's propriety networking protocol, which was a competitor to more popular and licensable alternatives like Z-Wave and Zigbee.
[....] With its servers down, the Insteon app appears worthless, and users' automations and schedules have stopped working. Many of Insteon's wall switches were actual electrical switches, so the worst that will ever happen is that they become dumb switches.
Every dark internet cloud has a cat 6 lining. This isn't as bad as cloud connected pet feed fooders no longer working. Or cloud connected exercise machines not working or restricting features with new pay walls. Or Smart TVs spying on you and displaying ads during a live sporting event.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Monday April 25 2022, @11:00PM (13 children)
Many have learned directly and indirectly a valuable lesson on how dumb it is to rely on IoT and cloud services.
We need more such failure to finally kill the beast.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday April 25 2022, @11:54PM (1 child)
I agree that people need to know this is what happens when the company behind their shiny cloud based toys goes belly up.
As for the financial receiving company, I question the wisdom of surprise insta-bricking all consumer products under the company's brand. Seems that would diminish residual value in the company far faster than whatever the server bills are.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 26 2022, @05:21AM
Financial Receiving companies have one main goal. To sell the assets for enough to cover their fees. If they can do this while also selling the assets to their friends very cheaply that's just a bonus.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 25 2022, @11:54PM (1 child)
If you're going to buy an IOT device, it should use an established protocol, hopefully one that's documented and has an open source compatible option for just this reason. From what I understand, many of these devices at least have a physical switch to operate.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Tuesday April 26 2022, @02:36PM
That's like telling people "If you're going to engage a lawyer, get one that's honest and charges very little, then you'll be OK". It's easy enough to give advice like this, but if it's impossible to follow it doesn't help people much.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by krishnoid on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:01AM
I don't think we need more failures as much as we need the ones that happen to be widely advertised. Then explicitly provide the moral at the end of the fable for the kids, and there you go.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:14AM (5 children)
Cynical me thinks it'll be unkillable. I'm not in favor of putting important / critical things in someone else's hands if it's avoidable. Safety deposit box makes some sense for some things. But otherwise, the risk and cost of downtime doesn't seem worth it. And, I hate being at someone else's mercy. Full disclosure, I do some part-time IT admin, and ideally I'd do it full-time.
I'm not even sure what they need cloud for. We now have tons of computing and storage capability in very small low-power devices, I don't even see the need for cloud computing / storage in many (most?) cases.
Some kind of fallback mode is what's needed for all this cloud-based stuff.
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday April 26 2022, @11:59AM (4 children)
Agreed, that's what's needed, but...
Moving from a single mode of operation to two modes of operation already increases the software complexity by a factor of 3 or 4. Add to that the fact that the fallback mode is dependent on heterogeneous home network configurations and the customer support issues shoot up by a factor of 10 or more. Then factor in the competitive market where they make the widgets for $2.50 each and sell them to distribution channels for $2.75 each - depending on that $0.25 per unit on the first container full of widgets to cover R&D payback and investor initial returns...
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday April 26 2022, @08:21PM (3 children)
I understand your points. Too bad that economics (cheapness) rules so strongly.
I'm sure there are many many use cases, and I can't even envision the many reasons for things needing the "cloud", but one example might be a security system including camera. Would it take much code and/or storage (in today's world of inexpensive large storage) to store locally, and/or send to the cloud? Many security camera systems have a uSD slot for local storage. Most cell phones have it. I would hope the design philosophy would be to design / build a standalone working thing, then add "cloud" functionality for whatever reasons. It just doesn't make sense to me to be 100% reliant on "cloud" connection. Any developer / product manager should be grounded in reality, including that for many reasons data connections can break.
It'd be nice if the market would actually work as hoped: things that rely on cloud connection are unreliable and would be well known as "don't buy".
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday April 26 2022, @10:02PM (2 children)
Yes, far too bad in many areas of life far beyond cheap home automation widgets.
The problem, as I see it, is that you could code to store locally, and it would work on the device(s) you coded for, but there's a limitless number of storage solutions already out there and your customers will want to use all of them, every possible interface, every possible media, use them on congested connections, use them in competition with other devices streaming video etc., use them with intermittent availability, sudden power failures, behind obscure operating systems, etc. The cloud, for all of its failings, is at least in the control of the company making the product.
I've taken a stab at developing software for cell phones a half dozen times over the past dozen years and every single time I walk away from it as too frustrating, moving target with ever-changing requirements (security access permissions, updating APIs, etc) with each OS release, and even update. Different implementations on different vendors. The market is absolutely Yuuuge, but I'm not really interested in competing for that market, I just want to make something that works, and continues to work for 5-10 years after I stop intensive development of it. On PCs I get that, on cellphones - not yet.
You don't think like a marketing VP. Access to real-time customer data, customer capture and platform lock-in... the list goes on but I'm already sick about it.
The reality they are grounded in is: it doesn't have to be 100% reliable to sell.
I know all this, and strongly dislike the current state of affairs. I also have a dozen lights around the house and yard controlled by "smart" switch-relay thingies hooked up to my Google home device so I can "Hey Google, turn on piano light" or "Hey Google, turn off all lights." It's convenient, but I would never trust it with something "important." Now, I also have an ecobee thermostat, which I do deem as important, but the main cloud function I use with it is to set it in vacation mode after we have driven away and I forgot to set vacation before we left, handy - but not earth shattering if it fails. Also: not connected to Google Home - I just don't see the benefit to outweigh the risks. We have a free-standing garage, and the opener in the garage has a cloud based remote app on my phone. It's handy, but I wouldn't trust it to secure the main house. It has never (so far) spuriously opened, and once in a very rare while I have to use an alternate opener method when the phone app doesn't work - either the traditional RF remote that I almost never use, or get out of the car, walk around the building, open the door with a key and press the overhead opener button. But, that's like less than 1/500 operations of the door, and without the phone app I'd just be doing the alternate methods every time. The cloud app also gives a tiny bit of reassurance that the door is closed when I'm somewhere I can't see the door - I don't trust that 100%, but it's better than relying on "I think I closed it..."
The main thing that I hate about all these cloud apps (and BLE too, but that's another gripe) is that they're laggy in ways that a local network app wouldn't be. The garage door opener is the worst, I typically wait 5-7 seconds for it to connect and give me a usable control, and I hate that, but those 5-7 seconds are almost always less time and/or effort than using one of the alternate methods to control the door - so, could be better, but still the best thing going.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday April 27 2022, @07:45PM (1 child)
Very little time, but 2 quick points:
- I was mostly referring to the public market being foolish in buying things that are totally dependent on cloud. I know marketers want to push it. Ugh. Econ 101 theory says someone else will make a product, maybe a few dollars more expensive, that will advertise "will work even if cloud is unavailable, as opposed to our competitor's product which will not."
- I'm okay with Internet-connected things, with some kind of proper security. I don't think they need "cloud" to function. True, without static IP it's more difficult, but there have been many Dynamic DNS services like "DynDNS" (which you could argue is a "cloud" service!) that will allow you to attach to your home network and turn on your hot tub heater as you're leaving work. Or HVAC, or whatever, of course. :)
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 27 2022, @10:30PM
Econ 101 theory misses the reality of post 1930s economic sensibilities: the product with the lowest price sells the most, period. Years ago, I walked into a Home Depot to buy a drill - sales guy took me right to a particular model and said "right here, this is it, this is the cheapest one we sell." I hadn't asked for any such thing, it's just what everybody always asks him. I told him "I'm here today because I already have a cheap, and now broken, drill - which ones are better, higher powered, more durable?" He shrugged his shoulders, said "you're on your own with that, here's the aisle" and walked away.
Dean Kamen invented the standing wheelchair (predecessor to the Segway scooter). For $25K per person, you could equip every wheelchair bound person in the United States with a standing, stair climbing, super stable powered wheelchair - for a fraction of the cost of what is spent in renovating old buildings to be ADA compliant. Anybody with half a brain can see the benefit, Medicaid should be falling over itself to buy the things - but they're not. You can get an ordinary push wheelchair for less than 2% of that price, and you can get a motorized wheelchair for less than 20% of that price, why would they buy the "better" wheelchair when they aren't the ones paying to upgrade the handicapped accessibility of all the buildings?
Anytime you think you know just how cheap the average person is, you need to recalibrate your gauge - there's always a cheaper bastard out there and they usually get hired in purchasing roles. More money for a more functional product doesn't sell. More money for a flashier product that signals the high financial status of the owner - that sells a lot better than things that just work better.
I just had a good car analogy flash by: Maserati.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by arslan on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:56AM
I don't have an issue with Intranet-of-things where I control the network in a closed loop, but yea most IoT is Internet based and cloud services are all 3rd party - pretty dumb.
A smart home is actually pretty nice if done right.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by stormreaver on Tuesday April 26 2022, @01:32AM
I don't think anyone who didn't already understand the stupidity of cloud computing within the first five microseconds of hearing the name will ever have a change of mind, regardless of how many outages or how much data loss is suffered. They will always have the mindset of, "but MY data is safe on someone else's servers. It's only those other poor schlubs who have to worry." To them, it will always be someone else's problem.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 25 2022, @11:09PM
"surprise-bricking" my new favorite expression. I cried as a I laughed as I read that word. Wonderful.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 25 2022, @11:22PM
"to optimize the assets of the company"
So much cleaner than "dress and butcher the carcass".
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 25 2022, @11:31PM (7 children)
Now we know that Russia didn't nuke them.
The other plus side?
Maybe a lot of people will begin to understand what a ripoff it is to rely on the cloud for everything?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday April 25 2022, @11:59PM (5 children)
> Now we know that Russia didn't nuke them.
Do we really know, for sure?
Malware, whether targeted or collateral damage, plus a hasty coverup to prevent panic, still makes a more plausible explanation to me than "preserving shareholder value" by nuking all consumer goodwill from orbit with no explanation for days after the fact.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by Rich on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:39AM (4 children)
Somewhat related, companies that have outsourced to cheap Ukrainian or Russian developers might get into trouble if the poor guys got government assignments where RPG doesn't mean a role playing game...
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:57AM (3 children)
You mean Report Program Generator? :-)
(Score: 2) by Rich on Tuesday April 26 2022, @01:55AM
Well, poor guys, too, who have to do that. But at least it only endangers mental, not physical, health.
(Score: 4, Funny) by tangomargarine on Tuesday April 26 2022, @06:37AM
Reverse Polish Gnotation
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:15PM
Oh, man, we're still getting scare-mongering from the jquery event.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Funny) by Freeman on Tuesday April 26 2022, @01:45PM
That boat has sailed, was sunk, dregged up by a tug boat, and is still heading towards the waterfall.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 4, Funny) by SomeGuy on Monday April 25 2022, @11:35PM (4 children)
"Insteon decided to turn off its cloud servers without giving customers any warning at all,"
That actually is a bit surprising. These must not have had enough visibility, otherwise they would have done what most other product do before going under - load up with shittons of advertising and make piles of money.
(Score: 3, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:01AM
>load up with shittons of advertising and make piles of money
Flaw in their business plan and tech development. Future investors will be more careful to insist on this parachute.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 4, Touché) by Fluffeh on Tuesday April 26 2022, @02:22AM (2 children)
Why stop there, why not even sell the domain name to a bunch of shady types that now have instant access to a whole bunch of customers homes? I am sure there's a whole queue of people lining up to pay for the domain and servers that have all this control. Cameras inside people's homes? Lights that you can turn on and off? Thermostats? Sounds like the glorious making of troll comedy on some "outside the reach of the law" country. Ranging from the juvenile "Watch people steam cooked as we keep cranking the thermostat up!" all the way through to super creepy "Here's a bunch of cameras you can pay to watch..."
Also, servers where thousands and thousands of devices are trying to authenticate into accounts that contain usernames, emails and passwords? Sounds like a dream criminal enterprise.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 26 2022, @02:47AM
who is to say, this wasn't already the business model (much like earlier comment [soylentnews.org]). where the sudden shutdown and silence was panic avoidance by FBI, so the customer base doesn't freak out that the criminal access was ongoing for some time.
then again (cockup or conspiracy conundrum) more likely just bad business plans/design as usual.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday April 26 2022, @01:47PM
They just needed to look for the right government backing is what you're saying?
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 5, Funny) by darkfeline on Monday April 25 2022, @11:38PM (2 children)
They should have rebranded as Insteoff.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:05AM
>rebranded as Insteoff.
I think they just did, hackers need to put it on their website.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:05AM
We are not going out of biz, the products just entered hibernation-mode to save power.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:32AM (3 children)
Discuss.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:48AM
Probably related to the sudden increase in censorship in the world. I normally would rely on aristarchus submissions to keep me up-to-date on such things, but, alas, he has been perma-banned by Runaway. So Musk, similarly, will ban all critical thought, and allow only praise and Dogecoin in Tweets from here on out. Sad.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 26 2022, @06:07AM (1 child)
Never in a Thousand Years, would I expect a comment that simply said "Discuss" to be modded as "Spam". Something is clearly wrong here, and I think we all know what it is. SoylentNews has betrayed or abandoned the principles behind BuckFeta, and is now some petty domain of petty admins, who have wrought havoc that they do not understand. I think the best thing to do, is to restore aristarchus, with an apology, and to Perma-ban Runaway for his lying about being Doxxed. This is the only thing that will restore balance to the force, and it certainly is not some alt-right notion of "fairly unbalanced", as we all know.
So, please restore aristarchus, deep-six the Runaway1956, and let SoylentNews return to normal. It is not that much to ask.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 26 2022, @06:34AM
Oh wow, this sounds like it might actually be a non-troll post for once.
God fucking damn it
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:39AM (2 children)
SoundCloud made their financial difficulties public and secured an investor
Evernote also nearly folded, securing funding the night before they would have had to shutdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evernote [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Tuesday April 26 2022, @12:59AM (1 child)
Why any note-taking and organizing app I use will be hosted by my own hardware.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday April 26 2022, @01:50PM
Just use the new Google Notes Plus Plus Good, you should be good. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? You lose 6 months worth of notes. Well, unless you decided to go all in and move everything to them and decommission your other systems. Then you'd be royally screwed.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"