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posted by janrinok on Tuesday May 10, @11:14PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the that's-the-USA-and-Europe-stuffed dept.

COVID-19 Vaccines May Be Significantly Less Effective in People With Severe Obesity:

New research suggests that adults (aged 18 or older) with severe obesity generate a significantly weaker immune response to vaccination compared to those with normal weight. The study was conducted by Professor Volkan Demirhan Yumuk from Istanbul University in Turkey and colleagues and was presented at this year's European Congress on Obesity (ECO) in Maastricht, Netherlands (May 4-7).

The study also found that people with severe obesity (BMI of more than 40kg/m2) vaccinated with Pfizer/BioNTech BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine generated significantly more antibodies than those vaccinated with CoronaVac (inactivated SARSCoV2) vaccine, suggesting that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine might be a better choice for this vulnerable population.

Obesity is a disease complicating the course of COVID-19, and the vaccine antibody response in adults with obesity may be compromised. Vaccines against influenza, hepatitis B, and rabies, have shown reduced responses in people with obesity.

To find out more, researchers investigated antibody responses following Pfizer/BioNTech and CoronaVac vaccination in 124 adults (average age 42-63 years) with severe obesity who visited the Obesity Center at Istanbul University-Cerrahpasa, Cerrahpasa Medical Faculty Hospitals, between August and November 2021. They also recruited a control group of 166 normal weight adults (BMI less than 25kg/m2, average age 39-47 years) who were visiting the Cerrahpasa Hospitals Vaccination Unit.

Researchers measured antibody levels in blood samples taken from patients and normal weight controls who had received two doses of either the Pfizer/BioNTech or CoronaVac vaccine and had their second dose four weeks earlier. The participants were classified by infection history as either previously having COVID-19 or not (confirmed by their antibody profile).


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  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 10, @11:20PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 10, @11:20PM (#1243959)

    It's allah's punishment for you fat fucks - you gluttonous sinners are SOL.

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 10, @11:42PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 10, @11:42PM (#1243962)

    once we bury them, do we at least get a carbon credit?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @12:16AM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @12:16AM (#1243964)

    I've often wondered why dose size isn't proportioned to body mass? Kids get lower doses, why shouldn't heavy people get larger doses?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @12:25AM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @12:25AM (#1243966)

      Dosage volume is determined by the clinical trial results.

      Do you think they will apply variable mass-dependent dosages in clinical trials when they don't even know what the "medium" dosage should be? With the limited trial subjects? In the expensive and time-consuming clinical trials?

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @12:34AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @12:34AM (#1243969)

        Thanks, makes sense that dose is driven by time and cost for the trial(s).

        Digging my own hole deeper(!): If the clinical trial data is available, maybe there would be enough data to also tease out dose/weight sensitivity and see if it looks significant? If so, then offer two dose sizes for those above and below the median weight.

      • (Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Wednesday May 11, @01:55AM (3 children)

        by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Wednesday May 11, @01:55AM (#1243983)

        It's like the aerospace adage "Test what you fly, fly what you test".

        Mass-dependent dosage would be a logical thing to study now that the rush is over.

        • (Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @01:59AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @01:59AM (#1243985)

          Mass-dependent dosage would be a logical thing to study now that the rush is over.

          Except there is no money in it.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @02:40AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @02:40AM (#1243988)

            Time to revise the reward system so there is money in it for someone! Keeping some people out of emergency wards would save plenty of money, system wide (or country wide). This could make good university research, funded by NIH.

          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @03:54AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @03:54AM (#1243991)

            "troll?"

            For stating the facts of the reality today, of the for-profit big pharmas' modus operandi?

            On the bright side, I guess there are some young naive idealistic ones among the SN community. SN needs more young recruits.

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday May 11, @02:37PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 11, @02:37PM (#1244055) Journal

        Now that over 10 BILLION doses have been given globally, I would they they might have a better idea of what is a "medium" dose.

        --
        While in an airport, never use the word "balm".
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @05:19PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @05:19PM (#1244107)

      The immune system doesn't work that way. It's not proportional to body mass. Child doses are smaller not because they are smaller, but because their immune systems are different. Vaccine doses are tiny compared to other medicines because they're only inducing a very local effect: a fake "illness" at the injection site which teaches the immune system how to handle a similar infection anywhere in the body.

  • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @12:53AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @12:53AM (#1243971)

    Ezekiel 23:20:

    20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. (NIV)

  • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @01:14AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @01:14AM (#1243975)

    .

    Ezekiel 23:20:

    20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. (NIV)

    .

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by pdfernhout on Wednesday May 11, @01:55AM (3 children)

    by pdfernhout (5984) on Wednesday May 11, @01:55AM (#1243984) Homepage

    https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2021/08/23/lets_stop_pretending_about_the_covid-19_vaccines_791050.html [realclearscience.com]
    "It’s also time to get real about obesity in this country. The US has an obesity rate of 36%, highest among “large” nations; for comparison sake, European nations generally fall in the 20-25% range, and Japan, South Korea, and China are all under 7%. At what point in the “pandemic era” does this become a national security risk? Studies of overweight/obesity on covid-19 hospital and ICU admissions suggest a 2- to 5-fold increased risk for the obese. That makes a normal BMI about a 65-85% effective “vaccine” against severe infection - one that keeps people out of the hospital from a variety of diseases, including the flu, and probably the next pandemic virus. Approaches to slimming down Americans come in many shapes and sizes, from Blue Zones concepts to soda taxes - which could be extended to all sweetened, calorie-dense processed and fast foods."

    Ways to lose the weight include "make the salad the main dish" and intermittent fasting:
    https://www.drfuhrman.com/blog/183/coronavirus-and-the-flu-five-ways-to-protect-yourself [drfuhrman.com]
    https://www.drfuhrman.com/blog/165/detox-event-blog [drfuhrman.com]

    Social support approaches:
    https://www.virtahealth.com/ [virtahealth.com]
    https://www.rebootwithjoe.com/watch-here/ [rebootwithjoe.com]
    https://www.amazon.com/Logical-Miracles-Second-edited-Mullen/dp/1975891430/ [amazon.com]
    https://www.bluezones.com/ [bluezones.com]
    https://www.healthpromoting.com/ [healthpromoting.com]
    https://www.drfuhrman.com/etlretreat [drfuhrman.com]

    --
    The biggest challenge of the 21st century: the irony of technologies of abundance used by scarcity-minded people.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Wednesday May 11, @05:40AM

      by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Wednesday May 11, @05:40AM (#1244000)

      What worked for me was the (free) book "The Hacker's Diet".

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @02:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @02:25PM (#1244048)

      stop with the (real non corn-syrup) sugar hate.
      alcohol can make you FAT too and prolly kills more people then sugar.
      sugar can make you cranky but alchole kills braincells. that's the stuff that helps you remember that a hangover is the result of dead or dying braincells ... oh wait.

      i guess 'murika has such a "hate" for sugar 'cause they know it's impossible to supply the demand if allowed to roam free (check import tax on brazil real sugar to usa, eh?) thus we get corn-syrup sugar or cugar, tennesse whisky and lots of beef instead.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 11, @09:42PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday May 11, @09:42PM (#1244176) Journal

      Remind me who freaked the fuck out when Michelle Obama dared to suggest that kids eat healthy at school?

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday May 11, @04:54AM

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 11, @04:54AM (#1243996) Journal

    In the pharmaceutical field it's well known that body weight and percentage of body weight as adipose tissue can affect the dosing for a variety of different drugs.

    The crux of the question here is the "volume of distribution," which is an idealized ratio that describes how well a given drug distributes into the various tissues of the body. Higher Vd generally means the body's squishier and solid-er parts are better at taking the drug in than lower Vd, which usually implies the drug stays mostly in the circulation and filtration/processing pathways (liver and kidneys). This factor is also affected by the lipophilicity of the drug in question, i.e., how likely it is to segregate into adipose tissue. Many drugs with low Vd are dosed by ideal body weight, which is a guess at the patient's *lean* body mass rather than their total heft, or IBW plus some fudge factor, since even adipose tissue has some vascularization...

    Now, how this relates to the vaccines is probably a lot more complicated, since the "dose" as it were is amplified by the body and THAT depends on a whole lot of other factors. High adipose tissue volume is well-known to be inflammatory though.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by arcade on Wednesday May 11, @08:02AM

    by arcade (8404) on Wednesday May 11, @08:02AM (#1244010)

    This is one of the few things I'm rather grateful for, with regards to Covid-19. The initial reports scared me enough to get serious about weight loss.

    I'm down from a BMI around 40 to a BMI around 33. I did *not* want to catch that nasty as heavy as I was. So I went all in on slimming down.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @10:06AM (16 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @10:06AM (#1244012)

    As someone who's had the vaccine, and then later caught the virus anyway, I'm inclined to believe it's not as effective as we're lead to believe.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @02:28PM (14 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @02:28PM (#1244050)

      still around to report it, i see...
      note: all bridges over the river called "propaganda" need a troll. more would be better...

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @03:22PM (7 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @03:22PM (#1244069)

        I'm overweight and caught COVID back when the strain was harder on people, not like the cold going around now.
        Not vaccinated then because my state rejected me because I was white and they were denying whites the vaccine at the time. (Thanks, Democrats.) Never went to the hospital, kept working remotely.

        Now, people double and triple vaccinated are all getting COVID. The vaccines are worthless at this point. Line up everyone and get a booster of the 2020 flu shot, really effective! It won't stop you from getting COVID, but I promise you it would have been worse if you hadn't gotten it! That's conveniently unprovable. And don't point me to outdated efficacy data from before the current mild strain.

        • (Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday May 11, @04:10PM (6 children)

          by cmdrklarg (5048) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 11, @04:10PM (#1244083)

          Not vaccinated then because my state rejected me because I was white and they were denying whites the vaccine at the time.

          Citation please.

          --
          There's a little black spot on the sun today
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @04:29PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @04:29PM (#1244087)

            Obvious troll is obvious, don't hold your breath waiting for a source.

            • (Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday May 11, @05:07PM

              by cmdrklarg (5048) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 11, @05:07PM (#1244102)

              Perhaps, but if their belief is borne of ignorance then perhaps making them find their evidence may change their mind. A longshot yes, but worth the effort.

              --
              There's a little black spot on the sun today
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @04:34PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @04:34PM (#1244089)

            Most of the news articles I have seen site this:
            https://www.mssnyenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/122821_Notification_107774.pdf [mssnyenews.org]

            See the section "Oral antiviral treatment is authorized for patients who meet all the following criteria:" for more info.

            • (Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday May 11, @05:05PM

              by cmdrklarg (5048) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 11, @05:05PM (#1244101)

              The PDF refers to antiviral treatments, not the vaccines. It does say "people who are non-white or Hispanic should be considered at risk" when considering treatment with antivirals, but the text says nothing about vaccines.

              Please try again.

              --
              There's a little black spot on the sun today
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @05:50PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @05:50PM (#1244118)

            Does this fact make your politics sound bad? That I wanted the vaccine but was refused (and then caught COVID)?

            It was policy in many places. Here are just some noted instances of white people being placed at the bottom of the COVID healthcare list due to Democrat party racist policies:

            https://www.cnsnews.com/article/washington/susan-jones/biden-will-prioritize-brown-and-black-communities-covid-vaccine [cnsnews.com]
            https://khn.org/news/article/vermont-gives-blacks-and-other-minority-residents-vaccine-priority/ [khn.org]
            https://nypost.com/2022/01/10/fda-wants-race-ethnicity-factored-in-administering-covid-drugs/ [nypost.com]

            The vaccine was being offered to the general public, but with the state website noting that due to "equity", they were accepting black and Hispanic vaccination applications. I submitted my request anyway on the webpage, was honest about selecting White, non-Hispanic for ethnicity on the form, and got back a response that I did not qualify.

            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday May 12, @08:38AM

              Man, you herp the derp like a real pro!
              """
              Starting Thursday, Vermont explicitly gave Black adults and people from other minority communities priority status for vaccinations. It follows Montana, which in January announced that Native Americans and other people of color, because they are at higher risk of complications from covid-19, would be allowed to receive the vaccine.
              """
              So Democrats are to blame for the "racism" of Republicans in Montana now, are they? (And I put racism in quotes, as it's not racism if there's a measurable increased risk factor in certain subpopulations - everyone sensible was prioritising high risk groups.)
              --
              I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @05:28PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @05:28PM (#1244113)

        still around to report it, i see...

        Implying that the vaccination made the infection less serious. So even though you "got covid", the vaccination saved you from serious illness and possibly death.

        But that statement can't be proved. It's like saying 'God exists'. You have to accept on faith that it's true, because there's no way to actually prove it. It's nothing more than a hypothesis without experimental proof.

        To prove your "hypothesis" there would need to be two individuals with the exact same genetic and physical characteristics. Not just an "identical twin", but an exact replica. Like say a Star Trek transporter accident version. Then one would have to get the vaccine, one would not, and both would need to be infected with the same strain of covid in the same method. When that experiment has been performed and documented, then you can say "still around to report it, i see...". If it's true. And back it up with a citation please.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @05:53PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @05:53PM (#1244121)

          As a counterexample of how non-deadly the current strain of COVID is, kids in schools are catching it left and right and the county policy is to stay home if you are sick with symptoms and get tested only if you feel like it! This is in a very blue county, BTW.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 13, @04:34AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 13, @04:34AM (#1244674)

            That's because the Blues have been advised by their consultants to stop pushing the coof hysteria, otherwise many very Blue counties will not be so Blue after November.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @09:08PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @09:08PM (#1244167)

          I also have several (6 to be exact) extended family members who were not vaccinated and got it. Including my parents in their early 60s.
          They are all fine, they didn't recover quite as fast as I. However I also have a friend, also vaccinated and boosted, who caught it and took longer to recover.

          And yes, my sample size is too small. However what I've seen (and I was also a "front line worker") I don't see how the response is in anyway proportional to the threat. We've put our country into several generations worth of debit for this.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @09:14PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 11, @09:14PM (#1244169)

            I'm also considered "underweight" as is the friend.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 12, @09:54PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 12, @09:54PM (#1244598)

            As another "front line worker," based on my sample size much larger than yours and based on what I've seen, the response wan't proportional to the threat, but in the opposite direction you imply. Instead of bailing out Wall Street with useless funds, we could have actually taken actions that would have worked.

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday May 12, @08:31AM

      Found the guy who doesn't believe in evolution.
      --
      I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
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