from the giving-in-to-demands-or-calling-his-bluff? dept.
Twitter reportedly will give Musk the full "firehose" of user data he demanded
Twitter now plans to comply with Elon Musk's demand for user data that he says is needed to determine whether the company's spam estimates are accurate, The Washington Post reported Wednesday.
"After a weeks-long impasse, Twitter's board plans to comply with Elon Musk's demands for internal data by offering access to its full 'firehose,' the massive stream of data comprising more than 500 million tweets posted each day, according to a person familiar with the company's thinking, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the state of negotiations," the Post wrote.
Twitter declined comment on the Post report when contacted by Ars today but pointed to its statement from Monday that "Twitter has and will continue to cooperatively share information with Mr. Musk to consummate the transaction in accordance with the terms of the merger agreement."
Whether Twitter has to give all the user data to Musk is under dispute. The Post report comes two days after Musk's legal team sent a letter to Twitter claiming the company violated the merger agreement by refusing to provide the data behind its spam estimates.
Twitter Set to Comply With Elon Musk Demand for Data on Fake Accounts
Twitter set to comply with Elon Musk demand for data on fake accounts:
Elon Musk warned he might walk away from Twitter if it fails to provide the data on spam and fake accounts he seeks.
Twitter is preparing to comply with Elon Musk's demand for data on fake accounts, after the Tesla chief executive threatened to walk away from buying the business if it refused.
Related Stories
In a letter to the regulators and to the board of directors at Twitter, Elon Musk has stated that he was entitled to measure just how bad the spam bot situation is at Twitter as part of his due diligence and that the social media platform is thwarting his requests to learn more about its user base.
Twitter's Parag Agrawal and Elon Musk have been going back and forth over the issue of spam and the number of bots the platform has in its daily user base. Sparring over the issue, Musk had earlier stated that the takeover deal is on hold, pending further investigation.
However Musk's letter formalises the dispute that has been going on for weeks, and for the first time, Musk has gone on record to state that he is willing to walk away from the deal, if Twitter interferes with his due diligence.
Elon Musk's lawyer, Mike Ringler, wrote in the letter, "As Twitter's prospective owner, Mr Musk is clearly entitled to the requested data to enable him to prepare for transitioning Twitter's business to his ownership and to facilitate his transaction financing. To do both, he must have a complete and accurate understanding of the very core of Twitter's business model - its active user base."
[...] Several trade analysts and investment experts have stated that this may be a clever ruse deployed by Musk, to get Twitter for far cheaper than his initial offer of $54.20 per share. And given how badly tech stocks, particularly that of Twitter, is operating.
The pressure on Twitter to talk publicly about how it monitors and removes spam accounts continues to mount.
Reports from CNN and The Washington Post reveal an 84-page whistleblower complaint alleging that Twitter isn't motivated to track the true number of spam accounts and hid security vulnerabilities from federal regulators.
The complaint comes from Twitter's former security chief, Peiter Zatko. Zatko is a well-known ethical hacker with the alias "Mudge." He told the Post that he "felt ethically bound" to report his serious concerns to government agencies. He alleges that he was fired for pushing disinclined Twitter executives to address major security problems—which his complaint suggests "pose a threat" to Twitter "users' personal information, to company shareholders, to national security, and to democracy."
Zatko alleges that Twitter execs were more invested in covering up those vulnerabilities, including cherry-picking and misrepresenting data on spam accounts and security threats to regulators and Twitter's board members.
Previously:
Judge Orders Twitter to Give Elon Musk Former Executive's Documents
Elon Musk Pulls Deal to Buy Twitter
Twitter Reportedly Will Give Musk the Full "Firehose" of User Data
Elon Musk Accuses Twitter of Thwarting His Due Diligence, Threatens to Walk Out of Deal
Twitter Users React to Elon Musk Putting Buyout Deal 'on Hold'
Musk Buying Twitter Is Not About Freedom of Speech
After Musk's Twitter Takeover, an Open-Source Alternative is 'Exploding'
Elon Musk has just bought Twitter
Elon Musk Isn't Joining Twitter's Board of Directors After All
Elon Musk Will Join Twitter's Board of Directors
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @02:16PM (7 children)
"Hey, Twitter, your sums don't add up. Your claims make no sense. You're lying."
"No, we're not. We're totally not! These are our numbers! Real numbers! Actual math!"
"Right, so how are you arriving at those numbers? Details, please."
"Uh, uh, uh, HERE'S A STREAM OF DATA PAY NO ATTENTION TO HOW WE DERIVE ANYTHING!!!"
What a load of bullshit.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 10 2022, @04:27PM (6 children)
Twitter provides it's user metrics and the methodology for them on it's SEC shareholder reports where it is an actual crime to lie.
The ONLY things you should ever believe out of Musk OR Twitter are the things contained on those reports.
So reality is basically the complete opposite of what you just posted.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @04:43PM (3 children)
Yeah, it's not like Twitter has been caught lying about their user metrics before.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/twitter-to-pay-809-5-million-to-settle-securities-suit-11632147834 [wsj.com]
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 10 2022, @05:22PM (2 children)
They got caught. Paid their punishment. Then, most importantly, provided the correct data so that now we all know what the truth is.
Compare that to literally every other form of communication they can use.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 10 2022, @06:43PM (1 child)
Well, I suspect that about 25% of Twitter users are real people.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Saturday June 11 2022, @09:13AM
You're an optimist. I suspect less than 25% of people are real people.
No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Friday June 10 2022, @11:41PM (1 child)
> reports where it is an actual crime to lie
Yes, that is why this is a big deal. If Elon's claims/suspicions are correct, then not only Elon, but anyone that bought or sold stock has standing to sue Twitter.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @03:07AM
Not necessarily. They could have two counting algorithms; one internal and one external. As long as they don't lie about the results of the external one, and it makes some kind of sense, that's fair enough. They can use a different metric inside, and call it something else ("Engaged human individual users" or whatever) and it could be a lot less flattering, but that wouldn't trash them with the SEC.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Friday June 10 2022, @02:23PM (65 children)
you first started out saying you cared about the world and its condition and wanted to make things better.
now, you're just a rich, smug, self-important asshole with too much money on his hands. and that money could be put to so many things that would really improve the human condition.
but no. you want to play rich man games.
no one really likes you anymore. you know that, right? I guess with more money than god, it does not matter what people think. but still, you're a horrible human being and I'd love to stop hearing about your bullshit. what you do just does not matter anymore, really. you cant even fix your car company, which does make tons of money but can't keep customers' cars fixed or supplied with parts.
you stopped caring, and it shows. correction: rich assholes never actually cared, but they sure fooled a bunch of us into thinking that was the case.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @02:57PM (36 children)
This doesn't check out.
Dude grows up in oppressed society so bad that its policy name has become a dirty word in English, worldwide. Dude works like hell, catches some lucky breaks, gets rich and powerful. Dude sees platform for freedom of speech, something with which he didn't grow up, sees an opportunity to improve it. Negotiations involve calling bullshit.
And you're all outraged and huffy because ... why, again?
Oooh, right, because he's rich. And something about logistics chains and stuff screwing with his car company. But mostly because of that filthy lucre polluting his spiritual aura. Rich is bad. Bad richie, bad!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @03:08PM (3 children)
Wrong.
What is with republicans and their cults of personality? Is identity politics the only thing they know?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @03:29PM
LOL. That's the funniest thing I have read in days. Could almost be BabylonBee material.
Thanks for the humor!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @09:20AM (1 child)
One side pretends a white trash real estate scammer is the best choice for POTUS, the other side has to pretend a senile old hair sniffer is because their murderous criminal witch lost so badly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @08:49PM
She is not a witch! Murderous war criminal Methodist 2024!!
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @04:22PM (7 children)
Of course this doesn't check out. It's just another feeble & failing attempt by adults who have the emotional maturity of a toddler (lashing out, crying,screaming, running aound when they don't get their way) to swing support against Elon by bad mouthing him. The pubic is becoming immune to the left's foul and soiled tricks. The entire intolerent Left is panicking because they realize this is the beginning of the end of their stranglehood control of their prejudiced and bigoted and sexist message on MSM and social media and also, if polls are accuate, Democrats losing the house AND Senate later this year.
Elon buying Twitter. The new CEO of CNN stating they will be tossing out identity politics, shaming, polarizating discussion panels and returning back to reporting the news objectively as it was 30 years ago, and fire anyone who doesn't follow along. Democrats voting to recall Democrats in California. Dems losing most of the hispanic vote. Dem support falling from black voters. Depp finally receiving justice and vindication from the lies smeared on him from that abusive monster called Amber Turd. Parents fighing back and against schoolboards brainwashing children through Crackpot Racist Teachings, and winning.
The looney-far-left must be feeling like Emporor Honorius right now when the Visigoths were about to sack Rome-their end is coming but there is nothing they can do except watch.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @04:40PM (1 child)
Oh my, the kraken just got unleashed. Turns out it was just another sad fat white d00d whining about their culture war issues no one is worried about.
QQ little MAGA troll ;^)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @09:23AM
FTFY
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 10 2022, @04:44PM (4 children)
Let's put the list of all the flaws you are secretly admitting to aside and let me ask you a question:
Do you think it is a smart business move for Elon to be pissing off all those folks considering they are the very same folks most likely to buy an electric car?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @05:11PM (3 children)
The current administration is attempting to turn Tesla into a "non-entity" (since they're not in the Union's pocket). The left-wing-nut-jobs wouldn't be buying Teslas anyway, and the rest of us (normal people) love that Musk is fucking with the woke idiots at Twitter.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 10 2022, @05:27PM
Right, I'm sure the climate change deniers are all going to be lining up to buy electric cars any day now!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @05:44PM (1 child)
Whine all you want, but at least stop deceiving yourself that you are in the majority. You think corporations are using inclusive media for some woke cabal? No, they are doing so because that is what the majority of Americans support. Also reality does not match up to the rightwing culture war nonsense.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @09:28AM
The media might honestly believe that, but that doesn't make them right. Go look up some five+ year old videos of the media reactions to Trump's win in 2016. Shock and outrage everywhere.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 10 2022, @04:33PM (17 children)
White people had freedom of speech during Apartheid.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @05:50PM (4 children)
What the fuck have you been smoking, and where can I avoid it?
The apartheid-era government engaged in open censorship, including news media, entertainment media, and monitoring and harrassment of performing artists regardless of their skin. Quite a few skipped the country under some kind of cloud. Nelson Mandela was famously a "banned person" which meant that nobody, including white people, could have things like pictures of him.
What a fucking muppet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @06:49PM (3 children)
The only muppets here are the muskerbaiters thinking some rich nerd that takes credit for the work of others is worth listening to. How many pump and dumps has musky done so far?
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @07:43PM (2 children)
Oooh, good save.
Because Musk explained that he values freedom of speech, and that Twitter is getting all prescriptive, that can't possibly have any real bearing on his decision.
The same guy who wants humanity to expand, who wants vehicles electric, who's trying to build better transport infrastructure - no, he's the devil incarnate because he's rich, pale and from South Africa.
Never mind the soft bigotry of low expectations, let's just have naked bigotry, and quickly change the subject when people point out that the counterarguments are horseshit on a stick.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @10:31PM (1 child)
I wouldn't go that far, but you do you! If you'd like some less racist reasons why he is terrible there is a handy site https://lmgtfy.com [lmgtfy.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @12:35AM
Does any of this have any bearing on weird ahistorical conspiracy theories about south africa?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 10 2022, @06:48PM (8 children)
Maybe you should ask some white people from South Africa how much freedom of speech they had. Apartheid wasn't exactly Nazism, but it had a lot in common with Nazism. Why do you think Mandela spent so many years in prison? The regime did not tolerate opposition - and they would be just as happy to imprison an outspoken white boy.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @07:49PM (7 children)
uh... Mandela wasn't a "white guy". Your argument is that "a non-white guy was imprisoned, so white guys would be, too" is a much weaker argument than we would expect from a genius such as yourself.
Arartheid is literally institutionalized racism [Apartheid: (in South Africa) a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race.], but you think that white people have the same restrictions as non-white people under the system.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @08:05PM (5 children)
It's like watching someone turn into a pretzel.
Runaway's comment about Mandela wasn't to the point that Mandela was a white guy, it was about the regime not tolerating dissent as an illustration of its fascist nature with respect to civil liberties. Misstating his position just makes you look like a tool. Runaway didn't do a feature-based comparison of the condition of white and black people under apartheid; all he did was to say that there were restrictions on white people, which is absolutely true, and on the record.
Now unwedge yourself and address reality.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @08:21PM (4 children)
Yes - he said there were restrictions on white people. And used a black guy as an example. Because pretzel, or something. Maybe if he used a white guy as an example of "white restrictions", we wouldn't be all tied up in knots (laughing at him).
Interestingly, he chose not to use Elon as example. Because Elon's privileged upbringing with a good education and middle-class income (ignoring any potential family ownership of mines, etc) doesn't support his point. They "ran away" to Canada because he didn't want to join the military, not because of a repressive regime. They were members of the repressing class, not the repressed class.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @08:29PM (3 children)
Actually, Musk family hustling off to Canada so that he wouldn't carry a rifle for an oppressive regime is perfectly in character for someone who thinks that it all stinks. Or would you have preferred that he stick around to do his bit to boost the old regime? In fact, Musk's father was active against the oppressing system, though working within it, so trying to paint him as the oppressor is rich.
But sure, let's just live in your white = evil world. So much simpler. So much less need for thought.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @10:46PM (2 children)
Not a single person said white = evil, but now we know what is really going on in that racist head of yours. You're just terrified of being treated the way you people treat minorities.
We get it, YOU are evil and having a hard time seeing other evil schmucks become unpopular after people find out the truth.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @12:38AM (1 child)
"They were members of the repressing class, not the repressed class."
OK, maybe you don't think that repression is evil.
Duly noted.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @01:59AM
Good, inform everyone you are stupid, saves time!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 10 2022, @08:29PM
Aren't you the genius - you figured out real quick that Mandela wasn't white. Now, try again. How free were white people to attack that same system?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @03:19AM (2 children)
Genuinely curious: what ignorant babe in the woods actually marked this delusionary drug dream of a steaming cowpie as informative? On what planet is this actually informa ...
wait, it's informing us that DeathMonkey is as ignorant as he is overconfidently opinionated.
I get it now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13 2022, @02:15AM (1 child)
Sorry, but no. You seem to be a few bricks short of a sandwich. But thank you for your contribution to the discussion!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 14 2022, @03:41PM
So ....you're saying that white people in South Africa under the apartheid regime had freedom of speech?
Or you're saying that DeathMonkey was #ironicbro ?
Or you're saying that it should be regarded as informative regardless of how provably nonsensical his jabbering was because ... stick-it-to-righty-whitey? Or something?
Where's the beef?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @09:14PM (5 children)
Found the Musk fluffer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @09:34PM (4 children)
Found the moron with nothing to add.
But aside from that, how are you, Jerry Springer? Haven't seen much from you lately.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @10:42PM (3 children)
"Found the moron with nothing to add."
I know Republicans are reality-challenged but it is common knowledge musky grew up rich and was given millions to start out his career. Leveraged his way into paypal, bought tesla and spacex, and desperately wants you to think he is the genius behind it all as he scammed Dogecoin. He is a scam artist, nothing more, and hilariously he tried to become the monorail gimuy from The Simpsons.
Be mad musky bruh! Someone be critimasizing yer boiiii!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @12:42AM (2 children)
Musky grew up rich(-ish), sure. Leveraged his way into stuff - sure. Bought stuff. Sure.
Somehow did it better than all the other guys leveraging, buying and choosing stuff. And now he's finding where Twitter's bodies are buried.
None of this pisses me off in the least. But you seem to be having trouble keeping an even keel - would you have been happier if Bezos were on top this year?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 12 2022, @07:10PM (1 child)
They are both shitheels that treat their workers poorly and have major ego problems while trying to convince everyone they are the magic unicorn making things happen. All they have to do us be decent people instead of the Bond villains they seem so fond of copying. Weird to see billionaires acting like insecure teenagers, really pops the bubble of rich lerson exceptionalism the US is so fond of.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 14 2022, @03:43PM
None of this shows that Musk is wrong to question Twitter's claims.
And why shouldn't he? They've been caught out talking shit about their numbers before.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @03:48PM (22 children)
He may have succeeded in convincing people of that. He may even have succeeded in convincing himself. But it was all rationalization, nothing more.
Elon Musk grew up as a kid on the autism spectrum. He never quite "fit in" anywhere, or with anyone. He developped that dream of creating a new world, a new society, a place filled with people like him, where he would feel right at home. And true to his autism ways, he decided that that would be on Mars.
Every company he's involved in right now is instrumental to this goal. SpaceX: For obvious reasons. Tesla: developing the technology for electric and autonomous transportation for his Mars colonies. Starlink: Satellite communication network for a new planet with zero ground infrastructure. The boring company: technology for a system of underground tunnels to protect future Mars colonies from radiations. Etc.
All of this is plainly obvious to anyone that is not blinded by his irrational worshiping of the man. Elon Musk is not "evil" because he's rich, or has switched political leaning. He's not a philantropist either. He's just a dude with a dream, motivated by his own self interest, like most of us, and aided by an intellect particularly suited to helping him achieve his goals.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday June 10 2022, @04:27PM (19 children)
Having a Mars colony should make the human condition, overall, better.
Getting a Mars colony accomplished is going to require pissing off a large number of people, maybe more than half. Certainly all the people who think that the money (proxy for human effort and resources) spent on making a Mars colony happen would be "better spent" on welfare handouts for them, whether they be poor individuals, or wealthy fossil fuel corporations, or any entity in-between that isn't getting a slice of that money handed their way like they have become accustomed to.
Per Lincoln (twisted): you can't please all of the people all of the time.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 10 2022, @04:39PM (18 children)
Someone whose only goal in life is to get to Mars probably wouldn't waste a shit ton of money buying Twitter....
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday June 10 2022, @04:53PM (17 children)
>a shit ton of money buying Twitter....
Handled well, that becomes a source of recurring income, not an expense.
Implicit in that: control of Twitter is control of the (modern) media. Forbes, Murdoch, the Sulzbergers, etc. make more money from the political influence of their publications than they do from the publications themselves.
Also, getting to Mars is going to require a great deal of political support, something that is most easily generated through control of media outlets.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 10 2022, @05:04PM (3 children)
It looks to me like they only make $126 million from Twitter itself per quarter, net, according to the most recent financial disclosure. [q4cdn.com]
That's a pretty damn long ROI!
Obviously we all know he's buying this for propaganda reasons. Personally I think it's just gonna hasten Twitter's demise but that's just my opinion...
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday June 10 2022, @05:15PM (2 children)
Financial disclosures are FAR from the whole picture.
Losing money in the financial disclosures is the first way to evade taxes.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 10 2022, @05:29PM (1 child)
Right....the one document they are legally prohibited from lying on is the thing we should ignore because it doesn't line up with your existing worldview.....
(Score: 3, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Friday June 10 2022, @06:05PM
>the one document they are legally prohibited from lying on
There's lying, then there's malicious compliance. Slick Willie did not have sex with Monica, that is not a lie...
Firms wouldn't need so many accountants if all they did was report the straight numbers. Those numbers can be, legally, massaged according to all the convolutions of the ever changing tax code. The tax code that is itself influenced by politicians who are influenced by media coverage of themselves and issues that matter to them...
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 10 2022, @06:57PM (12 children)
That is the most insightful statement on the Twitter sale I have seen. And, it will probably remain the most insightful. Having control over a significant portion of the media gives the controller a lot of power. Something our progressive friends try to deny. They are perfectly happy controlling the narrative, while pretending that everyone has free speech.
It took the progressives long enough to try instituting their ministry of truth. And, they'll be back soon with a new and improved ministry of truth. And, if Musk ever does buy Twitter, he'll be the first to tell the Ministry to go pound sand.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @10:36PM (11 children)
You are drifting further and further into alt-reality.
We thought Republicans coming to grips with the fact that trump played them for absolute fools would be more entertaining. Instead we get the usual denials of simple facts along with what appears to be dementia. Like watching gramps slide into senility; slow, inevitable, and sad. If they do not know what is going on at this point then they are probably lost forever.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 10 2022, @10:43PM (10 children)
How's that Bidenflation affecting you? $6.00/gal gasoline is awesome, isn't it?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2022, @10:49PM
Fuck Joe Biden!!
But I'm not stupid enough to attribute high gas pruces to him. Pick a lane dumbass, is he a weak fool or a powerful tyrant? Are you still kicking your dogs you sick fuck?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday June 11 2022, @12:43AM (8 children)
I totally agree with the "Joe don't control the price of gas." crowd, but I do have a tinfoil hat theory about inflation: it's how business is punishing the workers who refuse to work for $10 per hour, or whatever. Just let inflation run until all the smug hippies can't afford rent or food anymore, let them come back to work at $25 per hour or whatever number makes them happy, they will be just as poor as always, and the rich only get richer, in real terms, through chaotic economies.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @12:55AM
Economics trumps conspiracy theories.
Inflation happened because aggregate demand combined with high liquidity met with a constrained supply chain, meaning that the net value of money qua commodity dropped vis-a-vis other commodities. This is becoming entrenched to the point that wages are rising regardless of minimum wage laws, simply because of the combined effects of the great resignation, and scrambling to meet demand.
Of course, Biden had relatively little influence on this (although not nil), because the president can only wishlist budget line items for congressional action, and approve the budget when it arrives. On the other hand, his cabinet and appointees have generally done their very best to grease the wheels of inflation like demented mechanics, so whatever machine sockpuppets him and feeds him ice cream is pretty much guilty of it all. Right now, I think that the democratic party bears a lot of guilt, regardless of the fecklessness of its figurehead.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Saturday June 11 2022, @02:55AM (6 children)
As an individual, Joe is mostly powerless. But Joe is the figurehead of 'The Establishment'. Joe and that establishment are responsible for the economy today, as well as the crisis on the border, as well as much of the situation in Ukraine - and more. When Joe sat his ass in the Oval Office, 'The Establishment' took ownership of all of it. It's pretty much business as usual. The entire world gets fucked, the American working man/woman is doubly fucked, and only the military industrial complex (and those invested in that complex) rake in the profits.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Sunday June 12 2022, @12:13AM (5 children)
Joe and the establishment are responsible for control inputs to the economy _since his inauguration_. The economy we are experiencing now has as much to do with what happened in 2020 as any changes applied since 2021.
Also bear in mind, inflation is primarily influenced by the Fed's interest rate policy, which is largely independent of which party controls the White House or Congress.
All the "thank Biden for this expensive gas" flak seems like something Putin's team could have cooked up, knowing that the invasion of Ukraine would stress world energy markets and correctly predicting the reactions of US fuel suppliers.
If you recall, the gas price spikes related to Gulf War II we're followed by record profits for the oil companies in the subsequent quarters.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 12 2022, @03:11AM (4 children)
"Joe and the establishment are responsible for control inputs to the economy _since his inauguration_."
Agreed. Massive ramp-ups of giveaways, utter failure to grapple with the supply chain crunch, ludicrous game-playing with production chains, idiotic pussy-footing around the money supply all while their own pet economists shuffle nervously and cough.
"The economy we are experiencing now has as much to do with what happened in 2020 as any changes applied since 2021."
Of course, the past is always prelude. Doubling down on follies while abandoning pragmatisms is ... a good idea? Yes, no, maybe?
"Also bear in mind, inflation is primarily influenced by the Fed's interest rate policy, which is largely independent of which party controls the White House or Congress."
Hogwash. Pigswill. Half-composted chicken scratchings. Inflation is affected by many aspects that affect a commodity market (the commodity in question being the greenback) and sheer market sentiment that affects the liquidity on the market based on perceived needs as well as cash on hand (still a huge high) is only slightly affected by the interest rate. If the fed raises the interest rate, but everyone is flush with cash, they're not looking for loans to spend heavy - and guess what, the domestic savings stockpile is at a historic high.
There's more to this, but holy shit what an idiotic, dogmatic, short-sighted, reality-blind hot take. Did you get that one from Twitter?
"All the "thank Biden for this expensive gas" flak seems like something Putin's team could have cooked up, knowing that the invasion of Ukraine would stress world energy markets and correctly predicting the reactions of US fuel suppliers."
... the same suppliers being told that pipelines are off the cards, drilling gets to stop, and the government making rumbling noises about windfall taxes while logistics continues to be a hot mess? Do tell. Oh, please.
"If you recall, the gas price spikes related to Gulf War II we're followed by record profits for the oil companies in the subsequent quarters."
Yes! And if that situation were like this situation, you'd have had a point. But now we have a regime apparently led by people who thought that Carter had all the answers, that letting this stupid war of conquest (you heard about Putin saying the quiet part out loud, about recovering the lands of the former russian tsarist empire, right?) drag on is somehow smart and statesmanlike, who think that pious unrealities about an american version of an Energiewende will calm markets... yeah, aside from an oil supply shock, much of which affects Europe a hell of a lot more heavily than Gulf War II, in a climate where NATO is worried about inbound attacks rather than adventurism in the Gulf ... it's JUST TOTALLY FUCKING IDENTICAL.
Except not.
JoeMerchant, I expected better of you. Normally you're pretty level-headed, but in terms of economics? Please, go back to wherever you studied and get a refund. Use that post of yours as evidence.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 12 2022, @07:18PM (1 child)
Your post boils down to "omg supply chain" and "omg worries about the future of oil" like they explain everything. Total horseshit, just apologetics for corporate greed and political maneuvering. Seriously, your post is 100% fact free, just speculative opinions. Not that JoeM's was was well supported, but your position is even more content-free and just a list of what bits you thought joe was wrong about. Got any facts to help support your position? Price of oil not being record high, wages stagnant, but massive oil profits? And you want us to believe it is NOT greed? You'll have to actually do some work for a decent counter argument.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 14 2022, @03:59PM
Fact check: False. GPP explicitly references money supply, market sentiment and geopolitics in addition to the above.
Unsupported assertion plus ad hominem attack.
Fact check: False. Reference to economics on the nature of inflation as well as Putin's public pronouncements are both independently verifiable.
Another unsupported assertion and ad hominem attack.
GPP made references that could be reviewed.
GPP did not address that directly, but there's an oil supply chain that includes shipment and refining, both of which are overstretched. By implication, in an auction-style spot market, the prices paid by hungry purchasers will be high even when the supply is constrained. That isn't evidence of malfeasance. In theory, it would motivate more construction except that with the current political threats those expensive assets would be at a high risk of being stranded. This is what it looks like when industrial policy disfavours a market and forces it to wind down.
GPP did not address corporate motivations, but did address corporate restraints and government policy positions.
Ask khallow nicely.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 13 2022, @01:30PM (1 child)
Troll food warning: because sometimes it's fun, and it's better to practice with AC online than the real life neighbors...
I'm sorry, who was it that insisted on having his name signed on every paper check of the largest cash giveaway in the history of the United States?
Better to invade China and take control of their factories?
And significantly raise interest rates as an inflation curb for the first time since Ronnie and his Ray-gun gang.
Pragmatisms that have been shown to not work? Absolutely.
And yet, historical data show zero correlation [officialdata.org] between partisan control of the White House or Congress and the long term rates of inflation.
Ah yes, do tell how policy statements about changes that may, or may not, affect available supply 10 to 30 years in the future result in an immediate punishment at the pumps, do tell.
And our former statesman who was accurately described as a Russian sleeper agent would have done more? Perhaps give aid to Russia to bring the conflict to a swift end for the good of the American people, is that your answer?
AC, your post is almost entirely partisan flak. Fear and emotionally based, verbally abusive (which are, ironically, communication tools more effective on members of your party of choice) partisan flak, probably gotten in large part from Twitter - just like kids in the fourth grade: he who smelt it, dealt it.
The sooner you, and the rest of the country, realize the precious little difference between the parties, the sooner we, the constituency, can start to press our representatives for changes that really matter - on those 98% of policies that the parties silently agree on, 75% of which are biased to benefit a small minority of the population who disproportionately sponsor our representatives in government and the lifestyles to which they have become accustomed.
AC, thank you for again meeting expectations. It's nice to be able to sound off against mindless idiocy in a forum with zero potential for real-life blowback. I do endeavor to make my posts virtually fact free, I have zero interest in spending time researching backing evidence for my prejudices only to have even more absurd "evidence" counter-presented in this near zero impact forum. I respect your prejudices as your own, and how you present them says a lot about their value to the rest of society.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 14 2022, @04:21PM
"I'm sorry, who was it that insisted on having his name signed on every paper check of the largest cash giveaway in the history of the United States?"
Oh right, because a giveaway when the economy just slammed shut like a cage door is exactly the same as a giveaway when things are rebounding like a rubber ball. One of these things is not like the other ...
"Better to invade China and take control of their factories?"
... proposed nobody sane. Moving on ...
"And significantly raise interest rates as an inflation curb for the first time since Ronnie and his Ray-gun gang."
Significantly? You must not be old enough to remember Volker.
"And yet, historical data show zero correlation [officialdata.org] between partisan control of the White House or Congress and the long term rates of inflation."
And if long term swings were the topic, this might have been relevant. 18 months of particular conditions isn't long term on this scale.
"Ah yes, do tell how policy statements about changes that may, or may not, affect available supply 10 to 30 years in the future result in an immediate punishment at the pumps, do tell."
Pipelines: not 10 years in the future (OK, well, maybe now that construction has been stalled it turns to never). Refinery capacity: arguably 10 years in the future, although rulemaking constrains output. Current pumping and lease policies: not 10 years in the future. Spot market refinery product prices: greatly affected by established policies.
"And our former statesman who was accurately described as a Russian sleeper agent would have done more? Perhaps give aid to Russia to bring the conflict to a swift end for the good of the American people, is that your answer?"
Accurately described as a russian sleeper agent? You'll have to be more specific. If you're talking about Trump, you're going to have to bring a dumptruck of evidence because the actual investigation has shown that to be pretty much DNC fabrication aided by a suborned FBI. So who else do you have?
The major parties both suck dicks, just different dicks. That said, the fact that the midterms look like being a public tarring and feathering of the democrats has plenty to do with how americans feel about their household budgets, and the democrats have not covered themselves with glory.
Go cry about it now, if you like. If you cry loudly enough, maybe the PSL will sweep the board.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 10 2022, @04:35PM (1 child)
How does buying Twitter get us to Mars?
Seems like those billions of dollars could go to, y'know....getting us to Mars?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @10:51AM
What do you mean "us" snowflake?
Surviving on Mars is going to take hard engineering and a willingness to face unpleasant facts. The harsh environment won't care about your fee-fees. The safe space is going to be for when the main dome has a blow-out, not to run and hide in when the near vacuum offends you. The 100K temps aren't going to care about how unfair they are. It will be a long time before there are even any shops selling pink hair dye.
If you and your ilk do get an offer to go, I'd recommend checking the outside of the ship for a large letter B stenciled on it.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 10 2022, @04:30PM (3 children)
I just sold my last two TSLA shares. I wouldn't even trust this fuckwit to DRIVE a car anymore, let alone run a car company!
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday June 11 2022, @01:44AM (2 children)
I believe the traditional advice is to buy low and sell high. Getting emotional when on a downturn and selling isn't the optimal strategy.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @02:14AM
If you think the stock will keep going lower, better to sell late than never.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11 2022, @06:57PM
DeathMonkey is as Death monkey does.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday June 13 2022, @02:53PM
He started of reasonably well to do and then hit it big, essentially right out of college. Then, went on to be one of the founders of Paypal. He got tons of money, pretty quickly. He wasn't "famous" and thus, not much was known about him, by the public at least. He's had quite good success at all things to do with Space, he's had pretty good success with electric cars (certainly more than anyone, before him), he started a tunnel boring company, and is big into Solar. That's a lot of interesting and cool science stuff. Especially the Space thing which has been dominated by a greased pig, until recently. Since, SpaceX is pretty much the dominate Space company. Sure, they may not be the biggest, but they certainly are making things happen.
With all that, he's human, just like everyone else. He just has a big microphone and a big mouth. People aren't meant to be put up on pedestals and worshiped as heroes. They will let you down in one way or another, because they are human and they have their own flaws. Expecting Elon Musk to be any different is nuts.
One can still look at everything he's done and say, wow, he's done some cool stuff!
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday June 10 2022, @04:20PM
>Whether Twitter has to give all the user data to Musk is under dispute.
Whether Musk has to close the purchase deal is entirely up to Musk, dispute away - kill the sale if it's not what the buyer wants.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end