from the geopolitical-motivational-scheduling dept.
TSMC's Arizona Fab Construction Emerges at Breakneck Speed:
TSMC's construction on its latest semiconductor fabrication facility in Arizona is progressing at breakneck speeds. Thanks to the photographic reporting skills of Matt Schrader on Twitter, we can now witness the incredible construction rate for what will soon become one of the most advanced silicon fabrication facilities across the world.
The construction grounds literally went from tumbleweeds to factory shells in under six months, spelling a good pace for the factory's expected spin-up in early 2024. That's what a cool $10 to $12 billion can do, as you can see when you expand the below tweet.
TSMC's Arizona fab, christened Fab21, will occupy at least 1,100 acres of land in Phoenix, Arizona, and will churn out tens of thousands of semiconductor wafers in the 5 nm class for the Taiwanese company's customers around the world (initial output is expected at 20K wafers, just short of the 25K TSMC considers for its GigaFab nomenclature). This includes chips fabricated in the N5, N5P, and even N4 processes.
N5 and N5P have been tapped by both AMD and Apple, powering AMD's already-announced Zen 4 CPUs and chiplet-based RDNA3 GPUs (which are sure to make it into our Best Picks for graphics cards), as well as Apple's evolution of its original Apple Silicon, the M2 SoC (System-on-Chip).
[...] The Arizona fab is of strategic importance for TSMC's bid to increase its 5 nm output beyond the 25% already planned for 2022. Intel has also become a customer of the Taiwanese manufacturer — Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger recently visited Taiwan in a bid to secure additional capacity for the company's silicon designs.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by takyon on Thursday June 16 2022, @10:39PM (65 children)
TSMC’s Culture Clash at Arizona Fab [eetimes.com]
Construction of TSMC's U.S. chip plant delayed by labor crunch, COVID [nikkei.com]
TSMC Founder: Intel’s Fab Push Is Ironic, Taiwan Engineers More Devoted Than Americans [wccftech.com]
From somebody to nobody: TSMC faces uphill battle in U.S. talent war [nikkei.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 16 2022, @11:11PM (61 children)
Trouble recruiting? This ain't your third world China. Pay more money and offer better benefits, 4 day work week, six hours a day. Do that, and the place will be ready before the water runs out.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 16 2022, @11:20PM (58 children)
Rather the heat death of the universe. Sometimes you really do need things done in a hurry.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 16 2022, @11:37PM (47 children)
Yes, you do things in a hurry by hiring more people so they can work less hours and be more productive. You have to make the job attractive.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @12:50AM
Supply and demand.
Do they still teach that?
Something wants me to do something that's not fun, then compensate me.
If it's fun, I work for cheap.
If you want to treat me like Shit, then pay me in Gold.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @06:09AM
You are threatening khallow's livelihood! He works 18-20 hours a day! 6.42 days a week! At least four months a year, when Yellowstone is not closed, or flooded, or all out of pickinic baskets. How dare you suggest that he is incompetent, and the the hours do not represent actual work sucking up to richies?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 17 2022, @12:11PM (42 children)
I guess you missed this part:
Where's the "more people" coming from? You can babble on about productivity, but they'll need people to do the work in order for that plant to be built. A tight labor market and various factors like high overhead per construction worker means that more work per worker, even if it really is less productive as you claim, is a net benefit to TSMC. And a big thing missed here is that if labor and other costs gets too expensive, then the project just isn't worth doing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @01:09PM (41 children)
Typically you worship the god of "supply and demand", but apparently things are different when the shoe is on the peasant's other foot.
If you don't have enough workers you are not offering enough pay. There is no shortage of workers, there is a shortage of employers willing to pay market rates.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 17 2022, @01:45PM (40 children)
Does an electrical engineer worship models of transistors? Does an astronomer worship the Inflationary Big Bang model? Supply and demand is just as well tested a model as those. Just like those people, I go with what works and explains the phenomena we see. There's no worship involved at all.
Indeed. But the problem here is that there's a bunch of people proposing we create artificial surge in demand for workers by ridiculous restrictions on work weeks and such. Let's just not do dumb things, k?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @03:26PM (39 children)
The suggestion was
Seems to me they are suggesting other incentives than just more pay, since increasing pay sufficiently to fill the positions absolutely horrifies those complaining of no workers.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 17 2022, @10:00PM (38 children)
There it is. A proposal to "create artificial surge in demand for workers by ridiculous restrictions on work weeks".
Here's my take on this. Employment is a voluntary contract. Nobody will agree to contracts with ridiculous conditions: be it outright slavery on the employee side, or extremely low hours which don't allow the employer to get anything done at reasonable cost and time.
Sure, by the supply and demand model, it's reasonable to expect TSMC to just pay more for reliable, fast labor. It's not reasonable to expect them to offer benefits that destroy their ability to complete projects. As prospective employees you should be looking for benefits and wages that are reasonable given the job - trades that are mutually beneficial. Not merely what you want without regard for what the employer wants.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @01:07AM (12 children)
I guess it's a matter of perception. I saw it as :
TSMC : Waaah, we can't get workers.
Worker : Offer more pay.
TSMC : But we don't want to pay more.
Worker : Well, how about better benefits and less hours.
TSMC : We want to go back to when we could treat workers like slaves.
Worker : Hah. Would you like a pony too?
The upper 0.1% has had 40 years of enriching themselves while paying their workers shit, loudly proclaiming "it's the free market". Now it's turning around and the free market says labor is worth more. They can suck it up and pay, or go without.
Too many people realized that they were working ridiculous hours so they could pay for things they didn't have time to do themselves. COVID made a lot of them see that they could cut their hours, or drop back to one job and the increased time more than compensated for the drop in pay.
Work an 8 hour day and go home and cook a decent meal or work 12 hours and spend the extra pay on fast food because you're too fucked to bother cooking. At the end of the week the first option is way better in terms of health and stress.
And every time someone does that, it puts upward pressure on wages making it even easier for others to do so too. Unless they can suddenly convince everyone that working 60 hours a week for shit money is a great idea, I think the era of cheap labour is over.
It's almost like everyone joined a union and they are now collectively bargaining for a better deal.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 18 2022, @01:17AM (11 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @04:59AM (10 children)
Why? Do you thing there is some moral value in making people work 80 hours a week? It is certainly not necessary, society would be just fine if 20 hours a week paid a reasonable living wage.
Every place I've ever worked has had a significant amount of dead wood. Micro-managers who know less than the people doing the job, supervisors and box-tickers who add zero value. Office drones who spend all day printing out documents and then retyping them into other documents. I once eliminated a useless eight person department by automating the work until it could be done by one person part-time. Got rid of the useless manager as well, once it was one person they were moved under a different manager.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 18 2022, @05:19AM (8 children)
Well, let's turn that question around. Do you think there is some moral value in making people work 24 hours a week?
I don't recall anyone claiming that any of that was perfect.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @05:32AM (1 child)
Sigh. It's not worth trying. Some people just refuse to get it. Get too deep, and marxist heads explode.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 18 2022, @06:20AM
That actually is a good first step.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @01:45PM (5 children)
No. I'm all in favor of a post scarcity star trek society where having a job is optional and people undertake tasks for the sense of achievement. We don't have the technology for that yet, and I consider 24 hours/week to be both a reasonable compromise and easily achievable with the tech we do have.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 18 2022, @02:04PM (1 child)
What does "consider 24 hours/week to be [...] a reasonable compromise" mean here? I think it's neither technologically feasible nor a reasonable compromise. First, people seem to just outright ignore that this is an urgent project not something that the builder deems need not be completed. Even if we just restrict our choices to the two options the previous AC gave: 80 hours or 24 hours per week, a construction worker will get a lot more done faster in 80 hours a week than in 24 hours a week - even with the alleged (but completely unsubstantiated) claim that 24 hours a week is somehow more productive per hour. As I noted before, there's no endless stream of construction workers willing to work for 24 hours a week. So by capping labor at that number of hours a week, you cripple the project. It triples the number of bodies you need in an environment where those extra bodies just doesn't exist.
And as I also noted, there's considerable overhead to employing people. That reduces their productivity and is much worse when the number of hours per week is low.
Finally, it's just unreasonable. TSMC can by offering sufficient pay hire enough people willing to work those long hours and thus, need not bother with this destructive exercise. They don't need to so compromise.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @02:31PM
24 hours per worker per week is plenty to both maintain and improve society. It is a long term average. In any position requiring mental effort it is also about the optimum duration.
Fine, TSMC can hire people to work 60 hours/week if they think that is the most efficient way of getting the job done. In that case, they need to pay enough to get people to work 60 hours.
This is the bit they are having a problem with. I would guess that there are many people who would take that deal, a year or two earning triple the average wage is a good start to buying a house or setting up investments to secure your future. The problem with your solution is that TSMC don't want to pay enough to hire those workers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @05:05PM (2 children)
Star Trek, so they can spend gazillions hauling you around on a first-class luxury cruiser, while you return the favor with a part-time job? I hope they make you sleep in the Jefferies Tube and eat Tribble droppings.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 20 2022, @08:44PM (1 child)
Who is this "they" you speak of? Do you not consider yourself to be part of society? Or are you one of those people who think there should be a ruling, rich, leisure class that owns everything and you should slave 80 hours a week simply to exist in the society you built?
Get out of the cabin, Uncle Tom.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21 2022, @06:06AM
Productive, non-leech, members of society, maybe?
Clearly, you didn't build much of anything. If "they" were all as gung-ho as you sound, Jean-Luc Picard would be working for his brother, picking grapes. His Transporter credits would be bus tokens.
Ever hear the tale of The Grasshopper and The Ants?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 19 2022, @02:15AM
Along with govt paid housing, and retirement age moved to 107.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @05:00AM (24 children)
"supply and demand" is the rich man's fairy tale to rationalize abuse... *What the market will bear*. Really all the workers have to do is elect better politicians that will comply with their demands or be replaced.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 18 2022, @05:30AM (9 children)
And if I want to fly into space, all I need to do is elect a better politician who will comply with my demands and ban gravity. When the approach to solving a problem is to just ignore the dynamics of the problem, then you're not serious, just delusional.
My take is that we already have many decades of this sort of delusional thinking. And those "better" politicians have been exploiting it just as long. They, of course, eventually fail to comply, but only because it is impossible to comply with such things as eliminating supply and demand dynamics - but easy to accept bribes from the cruel businesses and government organizations (that can survive this dysfunctional environment) while making all kinds of promises.
I think it's telling that you just don't get the point of reciprocity, much less supply and demand.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @06:46AM (8 children)
As usual you don't understand. I'm saying your theoretical "supply and and demand" doesn't exist.. Prices are manipulated by intent, not by your ethereal fantastical "market forces". So we have to elect people to mitigate that power, not make excuses as you are doing
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 18 2022, @11:44AM (7 children)
You're just digging the hole deeper. It exists in the same sense that models of gravity exist. The underlying phenomena that's being described, exists quite well.
That intent manipulation in aggregate is those fantastical "market forces".
1) No we don't have such a need, and 2) such mitigation routinely makes things worse - such as breaking the market when it is most needed or destroying the value of things traded on the market.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @06:43PM (6 children)
Not at all. Suppliers control prices by reducing or increasing the supply. That's how you're being ripped off for gasoline right now. They just slowed down production and distribution intentionally. Demand hasn't changed significantly. Diary farmers dump their milk and demand government price supports to keep prices up. Chip makers burn down their factories to prevent a price crash. Your "supply and demand" and "market forces" are myths. All this inflation is necessary to absorb your ~10 trillion dollar Wall Street bailouts over the last 3 years, so, here it is, with Ukraine as the perfect distraction. The scam is working beautifully
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 19 2022, @03:11AM (5 children)
And similarly, demanders do by reducing or increasing the demand.
I take it you think the price of gasoline is too high, despite the huge uncertainty of the Russo-Ukrainian war?
I thought we were talking about the regulation of the market, not the breaking of the market?
The obvious rebuttal is that when you burn your factory, you incur the losses of the scheme while your competitors get the benefits. There's a problem with the narrative.
As I noted, they're quite observable which makes them not myths. Sure, they break down like all models when subject to conditions outside of the model's domain, but you would need to understand economics first in order to understand when that happens.
That's a classic supply and demand thing. Supply more cash and the price of the cash (that is, what you can buy with that cash) goes down. And of course, this sort of centralized decision thrashing isn't a market effect. You're really having trouble with this.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 19 2022, @05:26PM (4 children)
The proxy war in Ukraine (it's a Russo/US war on Ukrainian territory) is just a pretext for the price gouging. Your "supply and demand" is driven by intent, your "centralized decision thrashing", which is a market effect, through the force of arms
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 19 2022, @05:48PM (3 children)
In other words, you have feelz that it should be lower.
That "centralized decision thrashing" is not a market effect. The force of arms comment you just made is part of the reason why.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 19 2022, @06:18PM (2 children)
Under your ethereal market theory it would be much lower
Of course it is. It's fundamental to price fixing, resource rationing, etc..
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 19 2022, @08:36PM (1 child)
Why? There's been a substantial decrease in supply coupled with increased transportation costs due to covid, increase in demand due to covid, and a large increase in global risks.
It's still wrong for the same reason it was wrong the first time I mentioned it. Pricing fixing, resource rationing, force of arms, etc are not market effects.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 19 2022, @09:54PM
Markets are about voluntary trade. All the above are mechanisms for bypass that. You can't fix the price, when the market participants choose to trade at a different price. Resource rationing is a forced violation of the market. And force of arms are a means to force others to yield rather than to choose. This continued insistence on conflating ways to force economic actions with markets completely ignores what markets are and how they are used.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 19 2022, @04:04AM (13 children)
Daddy isn't here now. You are an adult, and you are responsible for yourself.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 19 2022, @05:39PM (12 children)
You are also responsible for the people you reelect. With our vote we can produce a government that serves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 19 2022, @06:45PM
Daddy can't protect you. The reality of life — of nature — doesn't care who you voted for.
Your moral superiority will not save you.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 19 2022, @08:38PM (10 children)
Sorry, I'm not going to elect, much less reelect, idiots who insist on pushing noodles around. You'll need to look elsewhere for support.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 19 2022, @08:58PM
Well, son, you're on your own. Don't expect Really-Really-Really Big Brother to comfort and compensate you, if you won't believe in him.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 19 2022, @11:09PM (8 children)
You already do, unless you're voting for independents
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 19 2022, @11:13PM (7 children)
This. I will occasionally vote for major party candidates who promise reasonable things. But the people who promise that they'll make the economy fit my dreams are poison.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 20 2022, @12:35AM (6 children)
:-) your dreams, maybe...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 20 2022, @01:20AM (5 children)
I suppose your dreams are about paved roads or basic national defense, right?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 20 2022, @03:59AM (4 children)
And healthcare, food, shelter. Only a psychopath could be against those things also
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 20 2022, @06:07AM (3 children)
Only an idiot would present that in lieu of a real argument.
None which need government involvement. You wouldn't be the first person to forget that if your government fumbles the important tasks, it won't be able to deliver those wishlist ones.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 20 2022, @08:51PM
That's the same argument about wanting government to be daddy, all of his life. Healthcare, food, shelter, college, protected part-time employment at full-time wages... there's an eternal child, for you.
This is gonna be quite an interesting generation. Especially when recession hits harder than inflation, jobs go to those who want to work, and they're down to searching online for a video explaining how to patch three-year-old Nike's, instead of getting a brand new pair.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21 2022, @07:48PM (1 child)
You're taking it personally. Arguing with a psychopath is a total waste.
Nope, they're every bit as important as the roads, schools, and fire brigades. If we demand it at election time, we will have it.
A chronically corrupt government is nothing but a reflection of the voters
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21 2022, @08:04PM
You can't let it stand. They are hatching new psychopaths every day. I suppose you're right, though; they got into this mess without logic... logic isn't going to pull them out of it. It still makes sense for the borderline or impressionable personality.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @02:23AM (1 child)
As an employer, I would be looking for better quality employees, who are dedicated, productive and energetic.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @02:42AM
At the next performance review, the manager will say, "Why are we paying this guy?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @01:26AM (2 children)
As we already knew khalliw is all about capital. Labor is for serfs and they'd better learn their place or we're throwing them in debtor's prison.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 19 2022, @09:01PM (1 child)
Without "capital," who needs labor?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 21 2022, @12:15PM
The hunter-gatherer who never has to worry about anything beyond their next meal and owns only what they can carry.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by lentilla on Friday June 17 2022, @02:16AM (6 children)
Sometimes you want things done in a hurry, but there is a limit to how much it is wise to flog a tired horse. One particular quote I love from Fred Brooks' The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering [wikipedia.org] is "Nine women can’t deliver a baby in one month".
One thing I have learned from project management is that working smarter rather than harder is key. By all means, let people know that sooner is preferred to later, but tell them what is wanted and let them get to work. Chances are you'll end up with a better result (and in a similar timeframe) than what could be achieved by micro-management and regular floggings.
Grandparent Anonymous Coward was also right on the money about better pay and benefits. I'm not sure I'd go for a four day work week. Construction doesn't require much "thinking time", but it does require time to physically recuperate - and fellas that work construction generally want to maximise their income per week at the expense of mild discomfort. If I wanted something done in a hurry I'd suggest a six day work-week, six hours a day for 20% over the hourly rate. You'd have people lining up for three-month contracts, you could pick the best of the bunch, and everyone would be happy - the workers would work swiftly, feeling like they are making bank and the project is getting completed as fast as humanly possible.
Well, that's how I'd do it anyway.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 17 2022, @02:32AM (2 children)
24 hours a week is not even close to flogging.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @01:11PM (1 child)
If you are working them six hours a day it is pretty easy to run two shifts.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 17 2022, @01:30PM
It's still easy to run two shifts, if you work them twelve hours a day. Even if we go with the original 24 hours a week thing, I bet a lot of people would prefer 12 hours for 2 days than 6 hours for 4 days.
The big thing being missed here is overhead. It costs a lot for both employer and employee to go to work. The employer side has been mentioned before: paperwork and regulations, training, equipment, oversight, etc. So has the employee side: driving time, opportunity costs, earning less pay, etc. Yet we keep getting these same dumb arguments over and over again.
Sure, if you're at a stage where you just want to skate by in life - never getting anywhere or doing anything for you or your family, then working some minimum number of hours a day to pay the bills makes sense. Similarly for an employer.
Well, nobody like that is involved with this project.
And the elephant in the room - TSMC has already been singled out [soylentnews.org] by name as a high priority strategic asset that should be seized by the Chinese. The faster they diversify their production, the faster they defuse that threat.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @05:17AM (1 child)
Speaking of required time, trying to build something on a slab of concrete you just poured yesterday will probably get the job done quicker, but you ain't gonna like what happens after.
And that example is not singular.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 21 2022, @12:27PM
Just because there are things that take time (well, really everything takes some degree of time) doesn't mean that you have to schedule everything sequentially. The crew that pours concrete can do so in sections while the crews that build things on concrete, merely need to fully wait their turn once in order to start building things on solid concrete and then follow the first crew around the build site. I'll note that workers with a greatly reduced work week make this scheduling vastly more complicated.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday June 17 2022, @06:40AM
Multiple shifts might be a good plan. It's Arizona; skip the hottest hours of the day. Start one shift in the evening, the next just before they're done. Overlap is key for communication. Lots of good lighting would be needed overnight.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 17 2022, @03:00PM
If only there was more than a single way to divide up 24 hours!
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @10:57PM
You can submit your application, and if they have any need for part-time help with your particular skills, perhaps they will call. Note that you would have to compete with full-time professionals who work for a living. Otherwise, there are part-time jobs available in the fast food industry.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @12:56AM
At least they are doing better than Wisconsin did with Foxconn https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/25/foxconn_wisconsin_factory/ [theregister.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @05:20PM
Aesop's Fable explains why we work. Walt Disney explains Aesop's Fable in a Silly Symphony:
The Grasshopper and The Ants (1934) [imdb.com]
The moral of the story... is only 8-minutes away.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @08:52PM
I also vaguely recall something like US workers claiming a video/film of workers in a different country was sped up even though it wasn't...
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 16 2022, @10:41PM (2 children)
People STILL don't have anyplace other than Twitter to post stuff?
(Score: 3, Informative) by legont on Thursday June 16 2022, @11:52PM
What else do you expect from mentally underage chikas, barking?
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @06:13AM
I post stuff I would tweet here, on SoylentNews. That way, it stays a secret, and I do not have to worry about NDA lawsuits.
(Score: 3, Troll) by Snotnose on Thursday June 16 2022, @11:23PM (14 children)
A company demanding stupid assed work hours that don't work in the USA? Or B) A company with world leading tech learning to treat employees like human beings in a plant that isn't worried about China invading?
I hope the Arizona fab is super successful, so much so we don't need to worry about TSMC in Taiwan, nor the Chinks taking control of the Taiwan fab.
Kinda sux2bu, but, yeah.
I just passed a drug test. My dealer has some explaining to do.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @12:01AM (6 children)
Get ready to pay ten times what you're paying now for all your electronics then.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @12:07AM (5 children)
Not if they mechanize the process, should make things cheaper
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 17 2022, @02:35AM (4 children)
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Friday June 17 2022, @03:51PM (3 children)
A future that doesn't harp about "treating workers like human beings" is not one I want to be part of.
The perfect worker for business is the disposable slave. Does that mean we should go that way, or do we make sure all human beings can pursue life, liberty, and happiness instead of just the owners?
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 17 2022, @10:03PM (2 children)
My point exactly. China isn't known for its "treating workers like human beings" thing, right? So when you give them easy cartels on the most important goods on the planet, you're not exactly enabling the goals you advocate above.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @08:32PM (1 child)
China is irrelevant. Who said anything about giving them anything? Mechanizing the process and paying decent wages here will enable us to out-build anything that China can do at a far cheaper price and superior product. Too bad none of our ~10 trillion dollar bailout went into any of that
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 19 2022, @03:21AM
So you're disinterested in the parties that will thoroughly take advantage of your folly?
Like we already do? What I'm seeing in this thread is a move away from that such as a smaller work week.
Even if it was sincere, there really isn't much to spend that kind of money on - especially when people routinely fix their own problems.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @12:04AM (1 child)
I hereby predict that the plant will fail. For many reasons, but let me point to one. "Flyover" "deplorables" are not gonna save coast liberal asses.
And while we are at it, they are not going to fight either. LGBT.... better train their children for army because guess what - Russians are coming and deplorables might join them. That's how Rome failed after all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 18 2022, @02:57AM
Deplorables are not required to save my bourgeois ass. For starters, I have an all volunteer army with an unlimited budget. You'll get in the factory and make me my RTX 4080, and you'll come to understand that you're lucky I'm giving you this opportunity. But if you join my army instead of making me an RTX 4080, I'll also throw in a free college education.
I think this plant will be very successful, especially after China enters WW3, regardless of whether they try to resurrect the passing fad of 40 hour weeks or go with 72 hour weeks like other factories in flyover country. I think 56 hour weeks would be a good compromise. As long as they have a strong union, they should be able to achieve an 8 hour work day, maybe for spans of 10 days each with a few days off, and only work more as required for national security.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @02:39AM
FTFY
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @04:04AM
Fuck you asshole. Chinks? That will get the Taiwanese going.
Fuck you cocksucker.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 17 2022, @03:12PM (1 child)
Annual Work Hours by Nation [wikipedia.org]
#22 Taiwan 1,990.32
#39 United States 1,757.23
#43 Japan 1,738.36
1990.32 - 1757.23 = 233.09
So in a given week the average Taiwanese person is working about 4.5 hours longer.
That's not nearly the massive difference that is being claimed in my opinion. I'd rather see them both go down than either go up though!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 17 2022, @10:05PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @11:02PM
People in Arizona are used to hard work and sweat. If they weren't weren't, they would move to California.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @07:06AM
So this is a Booster ad? Aridzona? Breaking Bad? Are they going to hire the CyberNinjas, like the state Republican Party? Bamboo fibers, in the chips. Read the nanometers!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @12:19PM (3 children)
after the fab is up and running and Taiwain no longer has something of value.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @02:41PM (1 child)
i had to drive past phoenix one time and the smog-bell was very visible from far away, or that is what i deduced from looking at road-map and direction...
would be sad, if the air-filter making factory was chinese and headquartered in taiwan :P
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 17 2022, @11:06PM
Yeah, the smog blows in from California. Phoenix, like Los Angeles, is in a valley, though in LA it's actually a depression.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Friday June 17 2022, @03:57PM
*spelling nazi triggered*
Well then, we better make sure our interest is tightened correctly.
loose: opposite of tight
lose: opposite of keep
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.