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posted by hubie on Tuesday June 28 2022, @12:47AM   Printer-friendly
from the belt-and-suspenders dept.

G7 aims to raise $600 billion to counter China's Belt and Road

Group of Seven leaders on Sunday pledged to raise $600 billion in private and public funds over five years to finance needed infrastructure in developing countries and counter China's older, multitrillion-dollar Belt and Road project.

U.S. President Joe Biden and other G7 leaders relaunched the newly renamed "Partnership for Global Infrastructure and Investment," at their annual gathering being held this year at Schloss Elmau in southern Germany.

Biden said the United States would mobilize $200 billion in grants, federal funds and private investment over five years to support projects in low- and middle-income countries that help tackle climate change as well as improve global health, gender equity and digital infrastructure.

The Belt and Road Initiative, formerly known as One Belt One Road or OBOR for short, is a global infrastructure development strategy adopted by the Chinese government in 2013 to invest in nearly 70 countries and international organizations.

Previously:
China Plans $503 Billion Investment in High-Speed Rail by 2020
Chinese President Xi Jinping Pledges $124 Billion for One Belt, One Road Initiative


Original Submission

Related Stories

China Plans $503 Billion Investment in High-Speed Rail by 2020 20 comments

According to a report at Bloomberg , China plans a major investment in high-speed rail over the next five years: $503 Billion:

China plans to spend 3.5 trillion yuan ($503 billion) to expand its railway system by 2020 as it turns to investments in infrastructure to bolster growth and improve connectivity across the country.

The high-speed rail network will span more than 30,000 kilometers (18,650 miles) under the proposal, according to details released at a State Council Information Office briefing in Beijing Thursday. The distance, about 6.5 times the length of a road trip between New York and Los Angeles, will cover 80 percent of major cities in China.

The plan will see high-speed rail lines across the country expand by more than half over a five-year period, a boon to Chinese suppliers of rolling stock such as CRRC Corp. and rail construction companies including China Railway Construction Corp. and China Railway Group Ltd. Earlier this year, China turned to a private company for first time to operate an inter-city rail service on the mainland, part of President Xi Jinping's push to modernize the nation's transport network amid slowing growth in the world's second-largest economy.

China will also add 3,000 kilometers to its urban rail transit system under the plan released Thursday.

At the end of 2015, China had 121,000 kilometers of railway lines, including 19,000 kilometers of high-speed tracks, according to a transportation white paper issued Thursday. The U.S. had 228,218 kilometers of rail lines as of 2014, according to latest available data from the World Bank.

The Chinese government will invite private investment to participate in funding intercity and regional rail lines, Yang Yudong, administrator of the National Railway Administration, said at the briefing.

Compare that to what it would cost, and how long it would take, to create the same high-speed rail links between 80% of major cities in the USA. I suspect it would be considered a miracle if half the cases would make it out of the courts in five years. Think of the advancements in manufacturing that can arise when "here" and "there" are "nearby" instead of "far away".


Original Submission

Chinese President Xi Jinping Pledges $124 Billion for One Belt, One Road Initiative 25 comments

China's President has pledged $124 billion for a new "Silk Road" connecting Asia, Africa, and Europe:

Chinese President Xi Jinping on Monday urged major multilateral institutions to join his new Belt and Road Initiative, stressing the importance of rejecting protectionism in seeking global economic growth.

Addressing other world leaders at a summit on the initiative in Beijing, Xi said it was necessary to coordinate policies with the development goals of institutions including the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC), ASEAN, African Union and the European Union.

Xi pledged $124 billion on Sunday for his new Silk Road which aims to bolster China's global leadership ambitions by expanding links between Asia, Africa, Europe and beyond, as U.S. President Donald Trump promotes "America First".

What is OBOR?

No one is totally sure. At the most basic level, One Belt, One Road (OBOR) is a collection of interlinking trade deals and infrastructure projects throughout Eurasia and the Pacific, but the definition of what exactly qualifies as an OBOR project or which countries are even involved in the initiative is incredibly fuzzy. "It means everything and it means nothing at the same time," said Christopher Balding, a professor of economics at Peking University. [...] According to Chinese state media, some $1 trillion has already been invested in OBOR, with another several trillion due to be invested over the next decade.

Fuzzier story at CNN. More at Wikipedia.

Related: China Plans World's Longest Tunnel
China to Spend $182 Billion on Network Infrastructure
China Invests $45 Billion in Megacity Project
China Finances and Builds $13 Billion Railway in Kenya
China Plans $503 Billion Investment in High-Speed Rail by 2020


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @01:19AM (11 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @01:19AM (#1256616)

    What a scam!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @01:30AM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @01:30AM (#1256618)

      Got a better idea for countering China's big scam?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:57AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:57AM (#1256634)

        Why do we need to counter it?

        First of all, which "we" is supposed to be responsible for countering it? The USA? NATO? G-whatever economies? The "west"? Who exactly is supposed to be countering this thing?

        Second, does it even need countering? Would it be all that bad for us (depending on which "us" it is, see first question) if China did to some other countries what a lot of the west has been doing to them? Oh, it's fine if we exploit somebody, but not okay when China does it? Or is it that if we don't exploit, we'll soon be the one being exploited?

        Why is this any of our business at all?

      • (Score: 1, Troll) by RedGreen on Tuesday June 28 2022, @04:24AM (8 children)

        by RedGreen (888) on Tuesday June 28 2022, @04:24AM (#1256643)

        "Got a better idea for countering China's big scam?"

        Yeah tell the fucking parasite corporations who have moved all the jobs to China, if you want to do business in our countries move them to some country that at least deserves a chance of our help. Not keeping them in some murdering shit hole of a country whos every move is designed to destroy our way of life. They do not even try to hide it anymore and these fucking politicians just let them get away with it year after year doing nothing to stop it.

        --
        "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @05:03AM (6 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @05:03AM (#1256645)

          Pretty sure Trump did a lot, including tariffs, to curb the labor drain to China and the cheap crap coming from there.

          Biden is suspending tariffs on solar panels. Great for the consumer and helps curb CO2 emissions, but not so good for US workers.

          Oh weird, are workers also consumers? I thought the Democrats were the party of the people, of labor, workers... ???

          • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by RedGreen on Tuesday June 28 2022, @05:20AM (4 children)

            by RedGreen (888) on Tuesday June 28 2022, @05:20AM (#1256647)

            "I thought the Democrats were the party of the people, of labor, workers... ???"

            The Democrats are chicken shit assholes who never met a defeat they could not snatch from the jaws of victory. Never seen nothing like it they let the Repugnant Party walk all over them at ever turn. They let them do anything they want to tell as many lies as possible and barely a word to call them out on it. If the Repugnants had been in power after the Jan. 6 happened you would have heard nothing but traitors being called out with the hearings starting immediately with charges soon to follow on every member of congress who even went within a mile of the Capitol. Instead here it is a year and a half later and not one charge brought not once have I heard the traitors being called out for being that. The Democrats go on being the do nothing idiots they always are on just about any issue it seems.

            --
            "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
            • (Score: 2, Informative) by Bean Dip on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:46PM (3 children)

              by Bean Dip (5604) on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:46PM (#1256701)

              If the Repugnants had been in power after the Jan. 6 happened you would have heard nothing but traitors being called out with the hearings starting immediately with charges soon to follow on every member of congress who even went within a mile of the Capitol. Instead here it is a year and a half later and not one charge brought not once have I heard the traitors being called out for being that.

              I don't usually wade in, but you seem poorly informed.

              Regarding "do nothing idiot" Democrats, please consider that the Jan 6 Commission was blocked by Republicans in the Senate, and it only exists because of Democratic control of the House. Expelling the traitors from Congress requires a 2/3 majority, and Democrats don't have the votes.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @05:55PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @05:55PM (#1256729)

                Sadly the rightwing rhetoric is quite effective since most people hardly pay attention so they go by a vague sense of what sounds reasonable. However there is still some truth because Dem leadership seems unable to deal with the few Dems that keep blocking things when Dems have a majority, though personally I wish it would be less team-sport and more individual politicians vote their conscience/constituentcy.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 29 2022, @05:31PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 29 2022, @05:31PM (#1256932)

                The DOJ along with the rest of the federal government, the fed, and major corps are run by the enemy Jew and their White race traitor enablers. Just be glad the retarded Cuckservatives are so far oblivious to this basic fact, or you may get a real insurrection instead of a ridiculous staged media event. Balkanize the US, or you will drown in your blood.

              • (Score: 2) by Entropy on Wednesday June 29 2022, @06:07PM

                by Entropy (4228) on Wednesday June 29 2022, @06:07PM (#1256940)

                I'm sure it has nothing to do with election time..nothing at all..right?

          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday June 28 2022, @11:39AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 28 2022, @11:39AM (#1256678) Journal

            Biden is suspending tariffs on solar panels. Great for the consumer and helps curb CO2 emissions, but not so good for US workers.

            Keep in mind that there are 300 million potential consumers and 30k workers [statista.com] in the US manufacturing solar panels. I'm quite fine with not so good for a handful of workers. At some point, we need to realize that there's more to the US than a few tens of thousands of leeches with plush employment.

            My take is that every single tariff out there has hurt far more people than it helped. And I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Trump deliberately used tariffs in this case to undermine adoption of solar power.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by quietus on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:17PM

          by quietus (6328) on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:17PM (#1256697) Journal

          That started coming to a halt under Trump, at the same time that the EU declared China a systemic competitor and started blocking Chinese take-over attempts of critical infrastructure (i.e. European harbours), later blocking all Chinese attempts at buying Western technology companies. That whole process started going to warp speed since the start of covid-19.

          Cheap manufacturing jobs aren't going to return to the West that easily though: they're now simply being moved to other parts of SE Asia (and India) where the ruling doctrine is a bit friendlier and not set on world domination. They're not going to come back because the reason ain't as simple as pinching nickels and dimes in order to gain a nice fat bonus: it's because that's where the developing markets, and population growth, are.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:37AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:37AM (#1256630)

    > gender equity

    We'll take China's money, thanks.
    -- low- and middle-income countries that don't have high number of bourgeoisie.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:52AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:52AM (#1256633)

      Except that China's money comes with strings -- your small local industries will be soon put out of business by the world's manufacturing 800 pound Gorilla. As soon as China improves rail/road/sea connections with your small country the "trade" will begin (the polite name for monopoly take over of many different industries).

      Hell, China already did this with large sectors of commodity industries across the USA...so there is little chance that you, small, isolated country, will be able to resist becoming yet another consumer of Chinese stuff. And will soon be running a nice deficit with all that entails about Chinese control of your country.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @06:05AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @06:05AM (#1256649)

        Except that China's money comes with strings -- your small local industries will be soon put out of business by the world's manufacturing 800 pound Gorilla.

        The same happens with non-Chinese imports. Even USAid is putting local farmers out of business.

        China is just taking the playbook out of the 19th century west. They flooded China with cheap Made in Britain and Made in USA stuff and killed their local manufacturing. This even led to opium wars and the Century of Humiliation.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation [wikipedia.org]

        Finally, China is rising again and is now strong enough to try to pull the same "humiliation" on the so called "west". They are still following the 19th century playbook. The only difference is that the rules have changed a little. Having big wars is no longer something you want because of literal suicide - this China knows, I hope. But China has been a nation for almost 3000 years now so sometimes it learns slowly, especially since it's a bureaucratic nation based on meritocracy -- the future is already in space and not earth-bound and the 19th century playbooks on market dominance are getting rewritten due to scientific progress. Manufacturing, while important, is getting commoditized.. Machining is being replaced by printing (aka, additive manufacturing), for example.

        Anyway, long story short,

        1. China is much, much older than the CCP and CCP is a servant of China, not the other way around
        2. China views the rest of the world as a market for China and a resource of China
        3. China is doing same thing like US or Britain when it comes to trade. They are actually less involved because they don't care about ideology as long as it serves China.
        4. How is China different to US when it comes to nations like Guatemala? US is not exactly getting better results with their influence.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 28 2022, @11:41AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 28 2022, @11:41AM (#1256679) Journal
        Sounds to me like that 600B, if it really does materialize, would be better used to undermine the Chinese strategy, say by cutting strings and dependency.
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by jb on Tuesday June 28 2022, @03:00AM (6 children)

    by jb (338) on Tuesday June 28 2022, @03:00AM (#1256635)

    Countering a political adversary's underhand move by making the same underhand move ourselves is a tactic that benefits nobody in the long run.

    Becoming an economic vassal state to one of the G7 is a fate almost as bad as becoming an economic vassal state to China.

    If "global leaders" were indeed global leaders, rather than just being in it to feather their own nests, then they would encourage the "developing countries" to develop by and for themselves: by all means learn from more advanced countries (both East and West), but history has taught us that selling out to any of them never ends well in the long run.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 28 2022, @04:44AM (4 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 28 2022, @04:44AM (#1256644) Journal

      they would encourage the "developing countries" to develop by and for themselves

      I mostly agree with you. But, building infrastructure is a pretty big hurdle. For whatever reason, you country doesn't have a highway or a rail system. Corrupt politicians, not enough engineers, mineral rights problems, tribal problems make it hard to recruit labor, worst of all, extremely challenging terrain. Some outside country offers to build out the highways and/or the rail system.

      Suddenly, you're connected to the world.

      Many things become possible, if you can just get from point A to point B. More becomes possible if you can order stuff from points C, D, and E, then ship your product to points F, G, and H.

      Regardless of how right or how wrong it might be to do it for them, infrastructure is critical to any nation's development.

      I'd rather see the government spend 600 billion on highways to connect people to the outside world, than to give the governments 'foreign aid' that never reaches the people. Or worse, 'military aid' that certainly never trickles down to the people.

      Somewhat unfortunately, I've read elsewhere that the US idea of infrastructure leans more toward the development of harbors and ports, which will leave the nations involved dependent on major shipping lines. Highways and rails would benefit more people than some harbor town that can't ship goods into the hinterlands.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @06:18AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @06:18AM (#1256651)

        Somewhat unfortunately, I've read elsewhere that the US idea of infrastructure leans more toward the development of harbors and ports

        Most of the Belt and Road are ports already. China owns A LOT of ports.

        https://www.voanews.com/a/6224958.html [voanews.com]

        governments 'foreign aid' that never reaches the people

        Proof? Foreign aid very much reaches people. The funding from EU or US tends to reach "the people" a lot more than the funding from China. China gives out big loans but EU or US loans/grants tend to have strings attached, like anti-corruption goals. These are not part of China funding. Often times, China lends money for a port that then the host nation cannot pay for so what to do? Just least the port to China for 100 years!

        China "aid" often involves China bringing in their labour to make any project a reality. This then is remitted back to China. Locals get few jobs and relatively poorly paid. In essence, Chinese projects tend to be China getting another nation to pay for their labour and when they cannot pay it, it get taken over by the Chinese.

        'military aid' that certainly never trickles down to the people.

        Military aid tends to very much trickle down to the people too -- but in a way that is not best. Military aid is TWO things

        1. military equipment donations
        2. subsidy of or otherwise support of their army

        Soldiers getting paid can be part of this aid but that's not often. Most often it just equipment made in US or EU and then "donated". A $1k gun donation is essentially spent local and then the goods given away where they tend to be used to destroy things (though, you know, what else can you use a gun for?)

        So, don't *assume* that when China drew something on the map and is funding it, it somehow benefits the locals. It most often means that Chinese companies with Chinese labour are even building the roads that then the local government has to pay for.... So, even the jobs and wages are not local. That almost never happens with US or EU funded projects -- those at least benefit locals with jobs.

        • (Score: 2) by pvanhoof on Tuesday June 28 2022, @07:35AM

          by pvanhoof (4638) on Tuesday June 28 2022, @07:35AM (#1256665) Homepage

          That almost never happens with US or EU funded projects -- those at least benefit locals with jobs.

          That might be true, but that also came and comes with benefiting the local corruption.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:05PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 28 2022, @02:05PM (#1256692) Journal

          Over the years, I've read many stories about foreign aid. In many countries, a million dollars worth of aid meant that someone like Marcos kept well over $500,000 for himself, dispersed another $400,000 to his personal friends and cronies, then permitted the remainder to trickle down (Reaganomics) to the population. The US has propped up many corrupt dictators over the decades, who have done similar. When we were sending aid to Iran, how much of that money do you think benefited people in rural areas and the inner cities? When we were sending aid to Iraq, and helping them with chemical warfare research, how many of the common people do you think benefited from any of that? One banana republic after another in the western hemisphere saw the US propping up petty dictators, who in turn enforced American corporate policy on their people.

          Precious little if any US foreign aid purchases groceries for the underprivileged people living in the country.

          Foreign aid does little more than purchase the ruler's compliance with American policy. Everyone involved knows that the money goes for important things, like buying another thousand pairs of shoes for Imelda Marcos.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 29 2022, @03:56PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 29 2022, @03:56PM (#1256906)

        Or worse, 'military aid' that certainly never trickles down to the people.

        See Ukraine. And/or see the (lack of attacks on) NATO. Alternatively, see the lack of support for various countries in the Middle East or Africa. That you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't trickle down to the people.

        Stability is a major component, maybe even the single biggest factor (among a plethora of also-important factors) in development. There is a reason that the Church was so powerful for so many centuries in Europe; they were the only stable and long-lived institution for centuries of turmoil.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @04:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @04:25PM (#1256711)

      Becoming an economic vassal state to one of the G7 is a fate almost as bad as becoming an economic vassal state to China.

      Actually in my opinion being given loans "Western style" where if you can't repay you're forced to "open up your markets" and let your companies be bought up by Western Corporations is being more of a vassal state than being required to lease your port to China for 100 years in event you can't pay for your port. Because technically you still own the port and AFAIK you can still use the port. Heck, I'd be happy to be a "vassal state" to a bank who would lend me money to buy some property and build a house and if I can't pay for the house, I will be forced to lease (not sell!) my house to the bank for 100 years and still get to use part of my house. The last I checked most banks would force me to sell the house and I'd still owe them any remaining amount.

      If you think those loans are so bad, I've got a bridge for you to build for me AND then lease FROM me for 100 years. Heck make that two bridges!

      And if you think "opening up markets" is such a great thing go see that there's still a fair bit of protectionism in western countries including the USA - they too don't open up whenever it doesn't suit them.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm far from a supporter of China - in my opinion most of their claims on the South China Sea are BS. But there's so much anti-China spin on those loans that it doesn't make sense.

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @06:20AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @06:20AM (#1256652)

    Africa has had the greatest standard of living increase in the post colonial era when they started working with the Chinese. Back when I lived in China, my Rwandan friend was hoping to develop the coffee export market which was tariffed off by the G7 bloc. China may treat them as a raw material supplier and manufactured product consumer, but the Rwandans are going to sell their coffee, because China can’t compete in growing that.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @11:10AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @11:10AM (#1256673)

      What needs to be countered is Africa's explosive population increase as to avoid an ecological disaster on a continental scale.
      1980 400M
      2020 1.4B
      2050* 2.5B
      2100* 4.6B
      *Projected

      4.6 Billion people living in Africa would be nothing but insanity-that's the equivalent of 46 cites that contain 100 million people. The people who are bitching about plastic straws or microplastics in 2022 have no comprehension of what us humans have in store for the environment come 2100.

      That's 70% of the world's poplulation growth occuring just in one Continent, a continent that is 25% desert and 50% dry arid savanna, yet all those people will require water, food, clothing, shoes, coffee, TP, hospitals, power, sewage systems, stores, computers, homes, paint, soap, etc, etc, etc. A couple years of drought in Africa and you'll have a humanitairian crisis orders of magnitude more severe than the Ethiopian crisis of the 80s.

      • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @11:33AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @11:33AM (#1256676)
        They might finally catch up to India plus China?

        now Clarence and the supreme court have legalized baby production, it's your patriotic duty to go forth and multiply, with a billion Americans by 2050.

        Fuck off white supremacist.

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @06:52PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28 2022, @06:52PM (#1256734)

          Given this is SN so most likely they are a racist conservative, but going by content alone the comment seems more concerned about over population and the article is about Africa. Next time mention over population in the USA and see how they react!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 29 2022, @05:33PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 29 2022, @05:33PM (#1256933)

          Not the OP, but the world doesn't need more Niggers, you dumb bitch.

  • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday June 29 2022, @12:19PM (4 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday June 29 2022, @12:19PM (#1256842) Journal

    This issue sounds a little like they're fighting the last war. When the Cold War ended the telecoms were licking their chops thinking they were going to make a mint selling old copper lines to places in Africa and elsewhere that had been under the Soviet umbrella. Instead, those places went straight to cellular networks.

    So China spending all that cash and the G7 talking about doing it (more), too, to build infrastructure sounds like it's the perfect thing to be doing right as the world is about to shift to additive manufacturing from everybody's desktops. So all those ports and roads and rail lines to haul goods all over the world won't be much good when you can drop a handful of waste plastic (or whatever) into a hopper and print out the thing you need, when you need it.

    It has profound implications for human civilization when you think about it, that centralized networks for everything are no longer needed. How does a government tax what was never produced and transported? How do you levy embargoes against a bad actor when he doesn't need you or anything you produce to get what he wants?

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Freeman on Wednesday June 29 2022, @02:27PM (3 children)

      by Freeman (732) on Wednesday June 29 2022, @02:27PM (#1256889) Journal

      I think you've drunk the Koolaid as far as 3D printing goes. You will still need something to make something. You're not going to be pouring in junk to make good parts. It's just not going to happen. Sure, some plastic pieces may be easy to DIY at home. It being easy enough for grandma to stick a used soda bottle in and print a coaster, is a ways off.

      --
      Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday June 30 2022, @05:56PM (2 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday June 30 2022, @05:56PM (#1257224) Journal

        I think you've drunk the Koolaid as far as 3D printing goes. You will still need something to make something. You're not going to be pouring in junk to make good parts. It's just not going to happen.

        Or, maybe I have been inside the additive manufacturing division at Ford Motor Co. and have seen what they're already doing. They do use 3D printing to make good parts. Specifically, they use 3D printing to make dies and molds to mass produce parts. They have a machine that uses sand and resin to make molds to cast engine blocks. It saves them millions of dollars and weeks because they used to have to farm that work out to subcontractors.

        But why is it so difficult to imagine throwing some object made of PLA into a hopper and having that be re-extruded as feedstock for the print nozzle? Is there some innate magical property in iron that comes from Amazon vs. iron you recycle yourself and then use to 3D print a new set of utensils for the dinner table? Heck, you don't even need to talk about metals to see how much you can do by 3D printing with plastics, so ubiquitous that material has become to our civilization.

        I predict that we're going to get to a point where a person will acquire a certain amount of plastic, metal, wood, etc, and be able to adjust and re-use them as new objects on the fly to suit their material needs. As long as you have the processing machines and printers and an energy supply (aka solar panels on your roof) all you need is a CAD file or Blender on a laptop.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Friday July 01 2022, @06:06PM (1 child)

          by Freeman (732) on Friday July 01 2022, @06:06PM (#1257388) Journal

          I just don't think it's that simple. My wife's grandfather forged his own parts to fix a pecan cracking machine that he has and uses. Your average person, can't do that. Even with how "easy" it is to 3D print an object. You are dealing with a very expensive machine to fix a $0.10, $5, or $20 part. You're not to the point where it's like having an ink jet printer, a template, and a couple minutes to print the thing you need. There's also the issue of patents, etc. The current "right to repair" climate is all kinds of screwed up. At least in the USA, I'm not sure how good/bad it is elsewhere. Certainly, I may be proven wrong in the next 50 years, but I would be very surprised to see a "3D printing" revolution happen in the next decade. Maybe for manufacturing sure, and by extension tinkerers. Just kind of skeptical for the average person.

          --
          Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Friday July 01 2022, @08:50PM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday July 01 2022, @08:50PM (#1257424) Journal

            I just don't think it's that simple.

            It is that simple. You put a plastic spool into the printer like you'd put paper into a traditional printer. You click on a file you want to print like you'd click on a document you'd like to print, and it prints.

            You are dealing with a very expensive machine to fix a $0.10, $5, or $20 part.

            You could just take a $0.01 pencil and print words on a $0.0001 sheet of paper, but you spend a lot of money to buy a printer and print stuff out. Plus, some 3D printers cost millions of dollars, but the kind that you or I need is quite often under $1K and some are in the range of paper printers.

            As to printing parts, I can answer that one directly from experience. Let's say that it's a 10 year old appliance that you like to use. Some essential but minor plastic part breaks. You either have to buy an entirely new appliance or try and hunt down that part. Can you find it online? If you get lucky, will it successfully ship to you from Uzbekistan or whereever it is? But if you have a 3D printer you can print out a replacement in a couple hours and be back to the races. Or, another equally possible scenario that I have experienced is that you buy something from a store that doesn't quite do what you need it to do. You can use sugru or duck tape and hope it holds and doesn't look awful, or you can use the 3D printer. I even once replaced the broken lid to the blue & white china tea pot that my wife got from our wedding registry and from 4 inches away you can't tell the difference from the original.

            There's also the issue of patents, etc. The current "right to repair" climate is all kinds of screwed up.

            I don't know about patents, and I don't care. I design something on my computer and print it out on my printer and use it in my home. Nobody is ever going to know. Even if they did, they would never go after you because it would cost them orders of magnitude more to do so than they would ever gain.

            If the patent system in the US is screwed up, and I agree with you that it is, then 3D printers are just about the best way to undermine it permanently.

            I would be very surprised to see a "3D printing" revolution happen in the next decade. Maybe for manufacturing sure, and by extension tinkerers. Just kind of skeptical for the average person.

            We are in the middle of the 3D printing revolution now. It shouldn't be too much longer before it takes over the world (from the perspective of the end user). Remember how telecoms tried to get people to send text messages in the 90's? They made entire ad campaigns to encourage cell phone customers to do it because it was a new revenue stream for them. But it really didn't catch on until the mid-2000's. Likewise cell phones. There were lots of precursors but the iPhone made it hit the cultural mainstream.

            Somewhere out there right now there's somebody trying to do for 3D printers what Apple did for iPhones, and it's only a matter of time before they succeed. In the meantime, tech-savvy guys like us can enjoy the benefits of the technology now.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
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