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posted by hubie on Wednesday July 06 2022, @04:34AM   Printer-friendly

California sets nation's toughest plastics reduction rules:

Companies selling shampoo, food and other products wrapped in plastic have a decade to cut down on their use of the polluting material if they want their wares on California store shelves.

Major legislation passed and signed by Gov. Gavin Newsom on Thursday aims to significantly reduce single-use plastic packaging in the state and drastically boost recycling rates for what remains. It sets the nation's most stringent requirements for the use of plastic packaging, with lawmakers saying they hope it sets a precedent for other states to follow.

[...] Under the bill, plastic producers would have to reduce plastics in single-use products 10% by 2027, increasing to 25% by 2032. That reduction in plastic packaging can be met through a combination of reducing package sizing, switching to a different material or making the product easily reusable or refillable. Also by 2032, plastic would have to be recycled at a rate of 65%, a massive jump from today's rates. It wouldn't apply to plastic beverage bottles, which have their own recycling rules.

Efforts to limit plastic packaging have failed in the Legislature for years, but the threat of a similar ballot measure going before voters in November prompted business groups to come to the negotiating table. The measure's three main backers withdrew it from the ballot after the bill passed, though they expressed concern the plastics industry will try to weaken the requirements.

[...] It does not ban styrofoam food packaging but would require it to be recycled at a rate of 30% by 2028, which some supporters said is a de facto ban because the material can't be recycled. The ballot measure would have banned the material outright. It would have given more power to the state recycling agency to implement the rules rather than letting industry organize itself.

Sen. Ben Allen, a Santa Monica Democrat who led negotiations on the bill, said it represented an example of two groups that are often at odds—environmentalists and industry—coming together to make positive change.

[...] Joshua Baca of the American Chemistry Council, which represents the plastics industry, said the bill unfairly caps the amount of post-consumer recycled plastic that can be used to meet the 25% reduction requirement and limits "new, innovative recycling technologies."

The bill bans incineration and combustion of plastic, but leaves open the possibility for some forms of so-called chemical recycling.


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Barenflimski on Wednesday July 06 2022, @05:53AM (19 children)

    by Barenflimski (6836) on Wednesday July 06 2022, @05:53AM (#1258466)

    There is no doubt that some plastics need to be figured out. The stuff just floats into my yard anymore to the point where I could spend 10 minutes a day picking it all up, just to have that much blow in the next day.

    Plastic bags seem like a good start to me.

    Styrofoam? Isn't that mostly air to begin with? When it comes to my lunch, what else works well? The cardboard stuff is soaked in 5 minutes. When it comes to peanuts in packaging, happy to get rid of the stuff. This stuff is used in cars, planes, and a whole lot of other places most average folks don't see. Kids car seats to helmets use Styrofoam to keep heads safe. What do you replace that with?

    The incinerating piece is interesting to me. I get you don't want to burn tons of plastic and release it into the air, but this might stifle other ways to deal with plastic where you capture the ash/smoke/soot once you've applied heat.

    I do love the idea of glass bottles that have a deposit attached to them to encourage recycling/reuse. Not so sure I want a glass bottle of shampoo in my tile shower though.

    Will be interesting to see what happens.

    • (Score: 2) by inertnet on Wednesday July 06 2022, @07:30AM (1 child)

      by inertnet (4071) on Wednesday July 06 2022, @07:30AM (#1258474) Journal

      Kids car seats to helmets use Styrofoam to keep heads safe. What do you replace that with?

      Those are not for single use, so exempt from these new rules.

      I think most people will agree that something has to be done to reduce plastic waste. Decomposition by micro organisms could be a way to deal with waste. But too much is still ending up in the environment, so reducing single use plastic is a sensible thing to do.

      Reusable containers for shampoo and whatever, will require some kind of cleaning service. The question here becomes, does everyone keep their own containers, or are we going to recycle billions of identically shaped containers, like we already do with soft drinks and beer bottles?

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 06 2022, @07:31AM (13 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 06 2022, @07:31AM (#1258475)

      Make packaging biodegradable so I can throw it into a compost bin.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Wednesday July 06 2022, @12:32PM (3 children)

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 06 2022, @12:32PM (#1258499)

        Its all in the secondary effects. You wouldn't want microplastic dust in your compost bin but the easiest way to make biodegradable plastic is more or less "particle board plastic"

        Then they try popcorn as packing material (or similar edible product) that results in shipping crates full of bugs.

        So add insecticides, enough to kill anything, now the packing peanuts won't get eaten but your compost bin is biologically sterile and toxic to all life forms...

        Really the only solution is to leave CA. Which people seem to be doing.

        • (Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Wednesday July 06 2022, @01:10PM

          by shrewdsheep (5215) on Wednesday July 06 2022, @01:10PM (#1258504)

          Why not work on second order pesticides, i.e. degradable pesticides but stable for long enough to cover the use case? Or layered materials, where each layer is degradable under specific circumstances (e.g. humidity, specific bugs, temperature)? This could lead to useful, yet degradable materials.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by helel on Wednesday July 06 2022, @11:18PM (1 child)

          by helel (2949) on Wednesday July 06 2022, @11:18PM (#1258580)

          Why not just use the compostable potato starch packing peanuts that most shops seem to be using nowadays anyway? This is a solved problem.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by anubi on Wednesday July 06 2022, @12:34PM (8 children)

        by anubi (2828) on Wednesday July 06 2022, @12:34PM (#1258500) Journal

        Well, I note my local eatery is using paper sacks and wrap. No more styrofoam clamshells.

        Although the plastic foam clamshells insulated better, I am more than happy to have paper products, knowing full good and well the plastic disposal situation.

        I am quite conscientious over plastic packaging. If it is packaged in a container that I can reuse, that alone makes that product more attractive. I am particularly fond of those clear cubical containers with large screw on lids commonly used to package nuts.

        Once I enjoy the nuts, I have another bin to put other odds and ends in. Those supermarket style milk crates store 16 of them.

        I am thankful the packagers used easily removable adhesive labels, which makes it easy for me to reuse the plastic jar. Would like to see those plastic jars standardized in dimension, albeit labels and lid color may vary, lid thread may not.

        I have even bought jars of "Paws" cheese puffs for their large sturdy square plastic jar, which I repurposed to hold various pastas, rices, and cat kibble. They also hold my collections of extra electronic cables and phone chargers.

        On my latest trip to WalMart, I noticed Paws was now being packaged in something too flimsy to be useful. I've had my fill of cheese puffs anyway. Probably won't buy any more.

        Sure would like to see all of that disposable flimsy stuff use the same plastic, so it can all be mixed, melted, foamed, and extruded as construction materials for stuff like patio decks and covers.

        --
        "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 06 2022, @07:16PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 06 2022, @07:16PM (#1258557)

          Those giant Paws cheese puff jars were being clearanced for $5 at my store a few days ago. Didn't buy any. I don't have a shortage of plastic containers though.

          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 07 2022, @12:52AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 07 2022, @12:52AM (#1258596)

            WalMart here often has pallets of Paws in the aisle. On my last visit, Paws were packaged in a flimsy round plastic container of the same volume, but we're too flimsy for me to use as utility containers. I have enough for a matched set of the old design, which look quite decent in their repurposed place.

            They are transparent and tough, and obvious what's in them.

            One soyentil mentioned shampoo bottles in the shower. I have been using repurposed Sriracha bottles because the cap design made them easy to refill from the bulk container I buy shampoo in and easy for me to dispense in the shower.

            If it helps the plastic situation, I wouldn't mind if bulk shampoo was offered packaged in old- school cardboard "milk box" packaging. Almost enough in the half-gallon size to fill four 17 ounce sriracha bottles. ( I'll top off the last one with the rinse of the bulk box.)

            It's still labeled Sriracha, It's in the shower, and it's green. It's Suave. It's the only brand of shampoo I've ever used. It's what mom always got. Talk about brand loyalty. Customer for life until some marketdroid pisses me off by some harebrained thinking outside the box, pull a fast one on the public scheme.

            Sriracha bottles make great dispensers for used engine oil to lube chainsaw blades with. One last use, but I can't use anywhere the amount I generate. I do know if I "paint" used motor oil onto outside wood, the bugs won't eat it. Make sure to get plenty in the ends.
            Took several applications as the oil wicked in. Do this sparingly. Don't do a whole outbuilding. This is more like preserving a wood mailbox post. The tradeoffs are outgassing flammable fumes for several weeks.

            I did that to an outside pipe rack I made from scrap wood about 30 years ago. Nothing has messed with it since, despite it resting directly on the ground.

            Just wish I had done that to the fence posts. All of them, using "treated wood" fell to bugs. Made a lot of extra work for me.

        • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday July 07 2022, @03:00AM (5 children)

          by Reziac (2489) on Thursday July 07 2022, @03:00AM (#1258613) Homepage

          Once in a blue moon I buy Gatorade purely to get the bottles. They're tough enough to hold boiling-hot drinks, they hold up in the sun (the cap eventually degrades, but the bottle doesn't), and they come in convenient sizes to repurpose for water or tea. Eventually they get lost or squished and I have to get another, but it's not unusual to get ten years use from a single bottle.

          Unz cheese puffs still come in a sufficiently sturdy container (and the white cheddar variety are really good). I re-use those, and various other largish plastic containers, for all sorts of things; I don't think I've ever thrown one out unless it broke. Tho I've learned not to keep flour in them; it goes stale a lot faster than if it just stays in the original bag.

          I do wonder why more of the tough plastic that doesn't melt easily doesn't get used to replace low-grade concrete (like for curbs and sidewalks) or asphalt or even gravel, where all you care about is that it's solid and doesn't deteriorate too fast. How would a road perform if the rock chips were replaced with compressed plastic chips? I recall an experimental road surface that substituted shredded tire treads was quieter and made for less wear on passing tires, but nothing about how durable it was.

          --
          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 07 2022, @03:57AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 07 2022, @03:57AM (#1258622)

            Lately I bought a few Powerade bottles and mixed my own sweetener-free potassium salt drink.

            You probably don't want to use these bottles for boiling-hot drinks. That is releasing chemicals and microplastics into the drink each time. Cold water probably does it too, but orders of magnitude less.

            • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday July 07 2022, @01:53PM (1 child)

              by Reziac (2489) on Thursday July 07 2022, @01:53PM (#1258688) Homepage

              Probably so, but I'm not using them for hot drinks every day (was an on-the-spot middle-of-nowhere travel mug, which I found worked better than "the real thing"). OTOH, something that takes so long to degrade probably is not releasing near as many nasty chemicals as plastic that readily melts or goes brittle, if only because it is clearly more chemically-inert. I do use 'em as regular cold-water bottles, far superior to the crappy ones water is sold in.

              What are you using for your salt-potassium drink?

              When I lived in the desert, I found that ramen seasoning packets have a good balance for salt replacement, and they're convenient to carry in a pocket.

              --
              And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 09 2022, @11:19PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 09 2022, @11:19PM (#1259304)

                Morton Lite Salt, which is half potassium chloride and half sodium chloride. 1/2 tsp per bottle. Recently I found NoSalt on sale, which is 100% potassium chloride, so eventually I will switch to 1/4 tsp of that and 1/4 tsp of fancy Himalayan pink salt or any other kind on hand.

                For flavor, I settled on 3 True Lime packets, which are 0.8 grams each, or half of an unsweetened Kool Aid packet that makes 2 quarts. Blue Raspberry Lemonade is the best one I tried so far. But in a pinch you can phase out flavor entirely and just drink the cold salt water. You lose a little bit of Vitamin C and palatability.

                As far as I can tell, sugar is not needed at all. It can have a theoretical benefit [sugarnutritionresource.org] for professional athletes, but I don't need to maximize performance. I also don't believe in using artificial sweeteners. It tastes fine to me without it.

          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by anubi on Thursday July 07 2022, @09:03AM (1 child)

            by anubi (2828) on Thursday July 07 2022, @09:03AM (#1258656) Journal

            They put a lot of design into their containers. Like you say, those are really nicely made containers.

            Thanks for the flour tip. My goal is to keep bugs out. I just hate buying containers when so many people offer me perfectly reusable containers filled with their product.

            Another I reuse a lot is those "Tupperware" type packaging deli meats often come in.

            They are quite useful for sharing goodies with neighbors, as I don't want to obligate them to return the empties.

            Then, there those beautiful bottles some liqueur is packaged in. Some are real works of art, and I have a helluva time tossing them. Amore orange liqueur came is such a pretty bottle. They are still in a box in my back yard. I feel so sad to throw such a thing. I can only use so many flower vases.

            Open to suggestions!

            --
            "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
            • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Reziac on Thursday July 07 2022, @01:44PM

              by Reziac (2489) on Thursday July 07 2022, @01:44PM (#1258686) Homepage

              Maybe with flour, put it into the plastic container inside the original paper bag? maybe the problem is nowhere for moisture to go? yeah, when you're afflicted with bugs in the flour you may have to seal it up regardless. Care to guess what gets into flour in the SoCal desert? Termites, I shit you not. (Everything organic vanishes... if the stink beetles don't eat it, the termites will.)

              Yeah, far as I'm concerned any lidded plastic containers are free Tupperware-substitutes, and the sort that cottage cheese and the like come in are durable and stackable. Everyone in my family has a stash of these if only to use with leftovers. They too last for years with only ordinary care.

              I hear you on the bottles. I hate to toss pretty things, or potentially useful things, but how many does one need? fortunately I don't use anything that comes in a pretty bottle, tho it still pains me to toss the sturdy if plain glass bottles that come around olive oil and balsamic vinegar. A friend used them to bottle custom flavored vinegar.

              The local pizza joint (which is wonderful, let's hear it for indy pizza!) gives away big glass jars and gallon tin cans; surprising lot of people use the jars for food storage, and repurpose the cans (myself included).

              Recycling is the endpoint of waste, not of thrift.

              --
              And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by mrchew1982 on Wednesday July 06 2022, @11:16AM (1 child)

      by mrchew1982 (3565) on Wednesday July 06 2022, @11:16AM (#1258491)

      In the case of our shampoo bottles I see some kind of aluminum container taking it's place, which *is* infinitely recyclable, but still uses tons of energy to remelt it.

      • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday July 06 2022, @10:05PM

        by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 06 2022, @10:05PM (#1258577) Homepage Journal

        Do the aluminum cans take less energy to remelt than it would take to process aluminum ore to produce the same amount of aluminum?

    • (Score: 2) by ChrisMaple on Thursday July 07 2022, @01:50AM

      by ChrisMaple (6964) on Thursday July 07 2022, @01:50AM (#1258603)

      For applications not requiring water-tightness, styrofoam can sometimes be replaced with kapok. Foamed cellulose and rock wool are other possibilities. For water-tight applications, metal-coated paper or cardboard are possibilities (think gum wrapper), but this may not actually be an improvement. Shampoo bottles could be replaced with metal cans, but I don't see this as being attractive to consumers. Shaving cream and spray paint are currently sold in pressurized metal cans. For a brief time around 1960 toothpaste was available in pressurized metal cans.

      Shifting to metal cans replaces one recycling problem with a new one, and widespread metal roadside waste may be more hazardous than plastic.

      In a certain sense, styrofoam helmet linings are single use. Once they've been compressed by an impact, their cushioning properties are greatly reduced and they should be replaced.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday July 06 2022, @12:34PM (2 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday July 06 2022, @12:34PM (#1258501) Journal

    Recycling plastic should be the norm. It's a material that is ubiquitous because it is incredibly useful, so we should not discard it the way we do.

    I re-use large barrels that held pretzels to store flour, beans, and other dry goods. Empty coffee cans, likewise. But clamshell packaging and such still go into the garbage.

    But it may be that this surfeit of plastic waste is a temporary problem that will correct itself once 3D printing hits the mass market. If you had an appliance that could sort, process, and extrude plastics as feedstock for 3D printers then the only thing you'd need to do to print out a new set of cups for your kids is to throw some plastic that was laying around into the hopper.

    We could comfortably support Earth's population if we did that instead of wasting what we do.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 2) by quietus on Thursday July 07 2022, @05:14PM (1 child)

      by quietus (6328) on Thursday July 07 2022, @05:14PM (#1258721) Journal

      Problem is that often, what you see as plastic actually are multiple different types of plastic -- a bit akin to pizza boxes which seem to be made from cardboard, but really have a layer of PFAS on the inside. Each of those plastic types might need its own recycling process -- it's not as simple as just grinding down and (re)melting.

      As for the 3D printing: good idea, except that individual users rarely need a 3D printed item. It's a pity that DIY stores haven't catched onto this.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday July 09 2022, @03:13PM

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday July 09 2022, @03:13PM (#1259145) Journal

        Problem is that often, what you see as plastic actually are multiple different types of plastic -- a bit akin to pizza boxes which seem to be made from cardboard, but really have a layer of PFAS on the inside. Each of those plastic types might need its own recycling process -- it's not as simple as just grinding down and (re)melting.

        I did have in mind homogenous plastic items like soda bottles, but heterogenous items like you're talking about could probably be sorted by their different melting points.

        As for the 3D printing: good idea, except that individual users rarely need a 3D printed item. It's a pity that DIY stores haven't catched onto this.

        That is true now, but many of us have seen the process of tech adoption several times over our lives. When laptops first came out many people said they wouldn't bother because their desktops were more powerful and besides, who wants to do work away from the office anyway? When cell phones first came out, most people had no use for them because they had landlines at home and at the office, and besides, cell phone plans were expensive.

        Eventually people adapted and the new technologies were incorporated into new patterns of living.

        Modern manufacturing has been re-invented by just-in-time approaches, and in a way 3D printing is the same idea taken further. Instead of physically moving huge masses of materials from one part of the world to another, needed objects can be printed out en place when they're needed, and someday soon, using feedstock from recycled waste already available.

        I think people can get used to that very easily.

        Personally, I run my printer all the time and love it. I don't have to guess correct key words for search engines anymore, or spend hours and hours doing research trying to figure out if one commercial product is right for my needs vs. another. I just open Blender, mockup exactly what I need, and print it out. It is enormously satisfying.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
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