Good News Everyone!
Systemd Creator Lands At Microsoft
Yesterday's surprise was that Lennart Poettering quietly had left Red Hat following a decade and a half there leading PulseAudio among other projects and ultimately going on to start systemd that has fundamentally reshaped modern Linux distributions. It turns out he had joined Microsoft and continuing his work on systemd.
After yesterday's article about Lennart no longer being at Red Hat, I began receiving tips that the systemd creator had some time back quietly joined Microsoft along with various public comments on Twitter and other mediums by individuals suggesting he joined the Redmond company... At first I thought they were jokes or just snarky remarks, but after a day of following up with folks, it actually turns out not to be a joke.
The prominent open-source developer responsible for several prominent projects joined Microsoft and continuing his focus on systemd development.
[Ed's Comment: AC Friendly withdrawn. You can blame you-know-who for the spamming]
More Linux Developers Joining Microsoft, Systemd Creator Adds to the List
It looks like Microsoft is holding all the good cards to play for its industry success with Linux and open-source.
Microsoft always gets the attention for some reason when it comes to open-source and Linux.
And, it also comes to the limelight when we talk about Linux developers...why?
It seems that Microsoft is hiring a lot of Linux developers for a range of projects. And, a popular name has joined the list.
[....] In addition to Lennart, some key developers like Python creator Guido Van Rossum have also joined Microsoft in the past.
It is good to see Microsoft embrace Linux and open source. I for one, welcome our new Redmond overlords.
Systemd supremo Lennart Poettering leaves Red Hat for Microsoft
https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/07/lennart_poettering_leaves_red_hat/
To considerable amusement in the Linux community, the infamous lead developer of systemd has a new job – at Microsoft.
The news surfaced on a Fedora mailing list when someone found that they were unable to tag Poettering in a bug report because his Red Hat Bugzilla account was disabled, to which Poettering responded that he had created a personal account.
This has caused much merriment in comment threads on sites such as Phoronix, Hacker News, and Slashdot, from "Welcome home, Agent Poettering!" to "Good work!" to various quips about future combined Linux-plus-Windows operating systems.
(Score: 5, Funny) by PiMuNu on Friday July 08 2022, @08:56AM (12 children)
Surely someone in M$ must realise this is a massive PR disaster!? They hired the single most unpopular person in the entire linux community.
(Score: 5, Touché) by fraxinus-tree on Friday July 08 2022, @09:01AM
This is not PR. This is a contractual obligation.
(Score: 5, Funny) by FatPhil on Friday July 08 2022, @09:17AM (4 children)
Anyway, well done MS, you can have him - now you've embraced him, please make sure to extend him.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @09:39AM
"[...] please make sure to extend him."
Are you talking about free soda and snacks now?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by owl on Friday July 08 2022, @01:09PM (1 child)
And, please please complete the task by extinguishing him.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Friday July 08 2022, @08:42PM
I'm sure they'll find plenty of busywork for him to keep him occupied until retirement.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Saturday July 09 2022, @03:33AM
He looks just like a young Bill Gates.
Coincidence??
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 5, Funny) by looorg on Friday July 08 2022, @10:03AM
Just imagine the wonders he'll do for Windows 12.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Opportunist on Friday July 08 2022, @10:13AM (4 children)
They couldn't really back out of it easily. It was in his contract that he gets a cushy job as soon as he fucked up Linux.
It's a bit like how politicians get board seats after passing laws that benefit the company.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Friday July 08 2022, @06:36PM (1 child)
At least we still have Slackware and Gentoo
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @08:41PM
Something is wrong here, this comment claims to be from Fusty, but it's not sarcastic or ironic.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bussdriver on Saturday July 09 2022, @02:39PM (1 child)
BAD NEWS! "extend" is the next step and this guy extended Linux in many unpopular and bad ways and then it's "extinguish" which is what MS does after "extending." They also are hiring other Linux "extenders" under their control.
The summary says Poettering will CONTINUE working on Linux!
Either this is a take over of Linux to migrate Windows to a MS corrupted Linux upon which Windows can migrate to; or to harm Linux - their options will be open for some time.
I wish Poettering was shifting work to Windows to do his "magic" on them but they want him to continue on Linux...
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday July 09 2022, @03:46PM
I cannot argue against anything you have said, but I think that they are initially aiming at a bigger slice of the cloud/server market which is where linux as a good base. I don't doubt that they will spoil linux for desktops if they can but, for now, I do not believe it is their primary aim.
But at the end of the day, what do I know? I am not on their memo distribution list and I hardly know anyone who even uses Windows, let alone works for Microsoft.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @09:50AM
Still, the long, long period of letting the obvious plant do all the damage his bosses wanted, is a howling shame on the entire Linux community.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @09:52AM (2 children)
I don't know how many people assumed he had good intentions because he worked for red hat, but they should be better informed from now on.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by RedGreen on Friday July 08 2022, @01:50PM (1 child)
"good intentions because he worked for red hat"
Why the hell would anyone think that, Red Hat is the same as Microsoft only with less money. Their intent has always been to mess over people
while making their money as a parasite on the free software movement, they are no friend of GNU/Linux. They talk a good game about it but this is where it ends talk. They are there to make the money and to try to dominate bringing in all the cash to be made from it. They give back what is required by the license not out of any concern with helping others.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @05:21PM
Same for IBM and similar - they'd prefer a more complex Linux ecosystem so they can come in with their consultants and get more money. You want Windows and Linux? Sure, we'll help you! You want a mainframe, Linux servers AND Windows servers? Even better!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday July 08 2022, @10:27AM (10 children)
I wish I could say this was the end of a cancer, but it isn't, unfortunately:
1. Systemd hasn't been destroyed yet. Indeed, it's likely to continue to be developed by Lennart from what the reporting suggests.
2. Systemd will probably continue to be part of Red Hat, Debian, and their derivatives like Ubuntu for the foreseeable future, because it would be a bunch of work to remove it plus there are people whose egos are now tied to the decision to use it.
3. If for some reason we were able to remove Lennart from the systemd project, that still wouldn't stop it, because there are other people on that project who are even worse, e.g. the person who got chewed out by Torvalds for breaking the kernel and then responding "wontfix" when discovered.
We're stuck with this mess for a long time.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @10:32AM (2 children)
http://www.slackware.com/ [slackware.com]
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday July 08 2022, @04:35PM
Which is all well and good, but doesn't help when you're dealing with clients who want one of the systemd-infested big distros.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Saturday July 09 2022, @12:54AM
I do my part and give them $1 a month on Patreon.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @10:52AM
Pottering is intelligent and a good coder but has bad ideas and low standards. He will now be replaced by a BAD coder with no ideas and even lower standards. :-)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by AssCork on Friday July 08 2022, @01:48PM
and we can identify these people as 'management' so they can be labeled and dealt with accordingly.
Just popped-out of a tight spot. Came out mostly clean, too.
(Score: 4, Informative) by bart9h on Friday July 08 2022, @07:56PM (1 child)
It's not that difficult to remove systemd from Debian.
The Devuan guys did it.
(Score: 5, Touché) by hendrikboom on Friday July 08 2022, @10:52PM
And we're still doing it. Unnecessary systemd dependencies keep sneaking into miscellaneous Debian packages.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday July 09 2022, @12:08PM (2 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Saturday July 09 2022, @03:55PM (1 child)
I'll put it this way: Every single time a story about a dispute between Linus and someone else ended up outside of LKML, I've read through the discussion, and it turned out that Linus was right. That's the main reason I trust him to lead the Linux kernel.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday July 09 2022, @06:41PM
But his stance on the "debug" kernel command line abuse by systemd, and ripping Kay's head off and shitting down his neck, make it all worthwhile.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @10:47AM (1 child)
I guess we will see soon...
(Score: 2) by Ingar on Friday July 08 2022, @11:45AM
The next Windows 11 update will include pulseaudio.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @12:26PM (4 children)
That's why I use FreeBSD. No telemetry, no systemd... just a nice sane operating system that politely does what you ask it to.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @12:32PM
I like FreeBSD for all my servers, but end up with rolling Linux distros for the desktop/laptop because it just takes too long to get updates for far too many packages on FreeBSD.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @05:26PM (2 children)
FreeBSD doesn't support Cone NAT though, so a FreeBSD firewall causes problems with VoIP, WhatsApp calls, MS Teams, online games and many other stuff.
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=219803 [freebsd.org]
(Score: 2) by drussell on Friday July 08 2022, @05:42PM (1 child)
I thought that was only an issue with pf rather than those using ipfw?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @07:30PM
Has it been fixed for mainstream ipfw already?
https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-net/2017-June/048135.html [freebsd.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @12:51PM
See something you want to take,
Start at the sea
Push West like a PacMan until you tire them out.
Rule!
Oops sorry wrong takeover. how about:
See something you want to take,
Buy a few primary developers, then a quorum, then a majority.
Get them adapted to your cash.
Push with stranger and stranger stuff till you just tire Linus out.
Rule!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by digitalaudiorock on Friday July 08 2022, @01:12PM (2 children)
Good fit for the guy who turned Linux into Windows.
I've been using Linux since around 2000. I've literally yet to even touch a Linux system with that Godless bullshit and never will. Same goes for the company I work for. Fuck systemd and Poettering.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2022, @02:28PM (1 child)
If you haven't touched such a system, you're talking out your ass and your criticism is worthless.
You have to try it out to understand just how goddamn FUCKED pulseaudio makes things. Nowadays, with sound (via HDMI) being available via both CPU and video cards, the opportunity for breakage is omnipresent.
Linux audio has never been perfect, but "uninstall pulse" has a long history of fixing problems. You'll do it after you try it out.
(Score: 5, Informative) by digitalaudiorock on Friday July 08 2022, @05:24PM
Are you on fucking drugs or something? First you rail on me about not knowing anything about that piece of shit systemd because I never used it...utter fucking bullshit...I know MORE than enough to know it flies in the face of everything that's made Unix/Linux successful. That's all anyone should need to know even if it weren't for insanity like the Windows-event-log-ish binary logging etc. If you want a good analysis of it's utter lack of any real design, this is a good start:
https://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/ [darknedgy.net]
Then you go on some incoherent rant about LP's other big project, pulseaudio, with which I agree and I've never used myself. I have no fucking clue what your point is and clearly neither do you.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday July 08 2022, @01:28PM (14 children)
I never liked nor trusted the man. He simply confirms he's a huge douche and a sellout. No surprise there.
However, unlike most of you here, I don't dislike systemd. Sure it has issues and questionable design decisions baked in. But it does address a lot of what used to make Linux suck ass on laptops.
My concern now is that Microsoft virtually owns it, by virtually owning fuckin Poettering - who actually asked to be owned by the enemy, apparently. That alone makes me want to switch back to a SysV init distro, much to my chagrin.
Really... I reckon I'm a reasonable sort of person. But even I can't dislike this man anymore intensely.
(Score: 2) by owl on Friday July 08 2022, @01:36PM (6 children)
http://www.slackware.com/ [slackware.com]
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday July 08 2022, @01:50PM (5 children)
Look, I'm old enough to remember Slackware before Debian came out. It was my first distro, circa 1999 or something. If you think I'm going back to that - or Gentoo, which is even worse - you're dreaming.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday July 08 2022, @05:46PM (3 children)
I've been using Artix for a while now. I've also had good times with Void as others downthread have suggested, and got my start, 18 years ago on the 24th of this month, on Gentoo. Any of those would be good. Devuan is usable now too if you want something not-rolling-release.
We have options. At the very worst there's always *BSD.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday July 08 2022, @07:42PM
I know we're talking about Poettering, systemd and Microsoft in the same sentence and that's bad. But it's not that dire is it?
(Score: 4, Funny) by TheGratefulNet on Friday July 08 2022, @11:10PM (1 child)
I've also had good times with Void
but how do you know if it actually works? each time you press return, you get nothing back!
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 2, Interesting) by The Vocal Minority on Saturday July 09 2022, @04:59AM
"Thirty spokes will converge
In the hub of a wheel;
But the use of the cart
Will depend on the part
Of the hub that is void. " - Lao Tzu
"Enact strategy broadly, correctly and openly. Then you will come to think of things in a wide sense and, taking the void as the Way, you will see the Way as void. In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness."
- Musashi
(Score: 2) by bart9h on Friday July 08 2022, @07:59PM
No need to go that far.
Use Devuan instead.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday July 08 2022, @01:45PM
I agree 100%. It was exactly what the cloud providers wanted. It makes the job of spinning up new instances much easier for them. But it makes life more unpleasant for the rest of us when it goes wrong. I have not experienced any significant trouble but, as Microsoft might be influencing the design much more closely now, I will have to look at changing distros.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by RedGreen on Friday July 08 2022, @02:08PM
"Really... I reckon I'm a reasonable sort of person. But even I can't dislike this man anymore intensely."
I like to think I am too, but him personally I think about it from the view the religious freaks usually lie and say they do. Hate the sin not the sinner. Personally I have never had a problem with the systemd, now that piece of garbage PulseAudio well on my machine playing any sound using it results in the machine freezing within minutes of doing it, switched to Pipewire for the audio and I have never seen a problem with it yet. This is the good part of it with GNU/Linux as they say about the weather around here, if you do not like it stick around for half an hour it will change. Someone in the Linux world is going to come up with the alternative to scratch their itch I have seen it many times in my almost 25 years of using it. Also is the bad part, change always comes whether you like it or not unless rolling your own distro you never get exactly what you want, so hang on for the ride it can get bumpy at times.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 4, Informative) by DECbot on Friday July 08 2022, @03:02PM (1 child)
If you're comfortable with Debian, then give Devuan [devuan.org] a go. I have it on my servers and had it on my old laptop. My new laptop required a newer kernel than what was offered in Beowulf at the time and so I'm using Kubuntu and I haven't been bothered enough to wipe it off to test Chimera.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 4, Informative) by hendrikboom on Friday July 08 2022, @11:00PM
Devuan/chimaera is my daily driver on my laptops and I'm quite satisfied with it.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Snospar on Friday July 08 2022, @04:15PM
I really like the simplicity and ease of use that you get with runit on Void linux. Runit does what an init system should do and nothing else. Unlike systemd, when I fire up htop to check what's running it all makes sense (especially in Tree view) and I can see which things runit has started and how everything is working together. The same system running systemd left me scratching my head, with so many cryptic things running I couldn't work out where half of them had come from.
(Score: 2) by srobert on Friday July 08 2022, @04:51PM (1 child)
I have very few problems with my laptop using runit in Void.
(Score: 2) by canopic jug on Friday July 08 2022, @07:26PM
I have very few problems with my laptop using runit in Void.
For now. With the old generation of hardware.
The new computers have UEFI, "Secure" boot (aka restricted boot), TPM modules, Ryzen / Pluton processors all in the hardware. That means they refuse to boot GNU/Linux [neowin.net] or, more generally, they refuse to boot any non-M$ system [tomshardware.com]. Combine that with EME, systemd, and some proprietary file formats and you have no trace of control over what is ostensibly still your hardware. I suppose a leasing model will be up next to take it even further that direction.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 3, Funny) by owl on Friday July 08 2022, @02:05PM (1 child)
may he now be forever assigned to work on the Microsoft Bob [slackware.com] platform.
(Score: 2) by owl on Friday July 08 2022, @02:07PM
Microsoft Bob [wikipedia.org] platform.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Friday July 08 2022, @03:36PM (4 children)
Windows now has Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL). Actually WSL2 is the good one.
You can run real Linux inside of windows. Such convenience. (Yes, really, I say that non sarcastically.)
Sidetrack for just a moment...
Manager: You don't need two computers, one for Windows and one for Linux, because you can use WSL2 to develop and test our application before it goes to production.
Developer: B, bu, but . . .
Manager: It is from Microsoft. Therefore it is the best.
Developer: Oh no! Our application did not deploy to production correctly! It runs on WSL and passes all the tests, but fails to run on real Linux for some reason?
Manager: Simple fix. We will simply change production to start using Windows Server 2016 and WSL.
Developer: But consider the reasons wees uses Linux in the first place . . .
Manager: It is so decreed!
How often should I have my memory checked? I used to know but...
(Score: 4, Funny) by https on Friday July 08 2022, @06:27PM
searching for the "-1, Nightmare" mod
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by turgid on Friday July 08 2022, @08:48PM (2 children)
Yes, we have gone through Embrace and now we are at Extend. The third step is still to come: Extinguish.
People are already not bothering to install a proper Linux distro because "you can just use WSL."
If no one uses Linux distros, development will stop.
If people keep using WSL, they'll be stuck with whatever "version" of Linux Microsoft puts out. The official Linux kernel may advance, change and improve, but if it's easiest to "just use WSL..." You see the problem.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday July 09 2022, @12:46PM (1 child)
They've been down this path before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by turgid on Saturday July 09 2022, @05:38PM
That was when SCO used to pay them to develop it IIRC. I remember when OS/2 (jointly developed by IBM and Microsoft) was going to be the next big thing, with separate versions to take advantage of the 286 and 386. Meanwhile, 16-bit Windows, the MS-DOS GUI, was being developed my Microsoft. Then they started to work on Windows NT, hiring Dave Cutler of DEC/VMS fame who designed a microkernel OS for them (which was quite good internally, portable and able of presenting personalities of other OSes to the outside world). All of a sudden the pulled the rug out from under the IBM partnership to develop OS/2 opting for things like Windows 95 and Windows NT. OS/2 had a Windows compatibility layer (that was part of the design) and it worked very well. OS/2 Warp was more stable, more efficient and generally better at being Windows 95 than Windows 95 but PCs came with Windows installed and OS/2 was something you had to have heard about, and have the money to pay for extra, know how to install it and trust that it would continue to be able to run Windows stuff in the future. Never trust Microsoft. Microsoft did to IBM what IBM used to do to everyone else. I bet that medicine tasted bitter.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Snort on Friday July 08 2022, @04:27PM (1 child)
The Systemd/services.exe conspiracy was true!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by turgid on Friday July 08 2022, @08:49PM
And GNOME, Mono, Moonlight...
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Saturday July 09 2022, @01:01AM (1 child)
But Poettering is taking much longer than Elop to achieve total destruction.
Wonder if he is getting paid by the hour?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday July 09 2022, @12:48PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves