from the are-cameras-in-the-back-seat-next? dept.
The Markup is reporting on the data being exfiltrated from your vehicle and who is doing the exfiltration.
A firehose of sensitive data from your vehicle is flowing to a group of companies you've probably never heard of.
Today's cars are akin to smartphones, with apps connected to the internet that collect huge amounts of data, some of which is highly personal.
Most drivers have no idea what data is being transmitted from their vehicles, let alone who exactly is collecting, analyzing, and sharing that data, and with whom. A recent survey of drivers by the Automotive Industries Association of Canada found that only 28 percent of respondents had a clear understanding of the types of data their vehicle produced, and the same percentage said they had a clear understanding of who had access to that data.
Welcome to the world of connected vehicle data, an ecosystem of dozens of businesses you never knew existed.
The Markup has identified 37 companies that are part of the rapidly growing connected vehicle data industry that seeks to monetize such data in an environment with few regulations governing its sale or use.
First they monetized your phone, then your TV. IOT devices are designed to be monetized. Now (not new, but apparently much more widespread than it used to be), your driving and in-car activities are being monetized as well.
Is that the sort of world in which you want to live?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 01 2022, @05:05PM (3 children)
DO NOT WANT
(Score: 5, Interesting) by gnuman on Monday August 01 2022, @05:40PM (2 children)
So, walk, and without a phone?
This is not even meant to be a troll but just reality where the connectivity is heading. It's still amazing that people don't realize everything is logged about where they are connected on their phones. I mean, all the geolocation data where and when they are moving. This is not even malicious, but by design. Cell towers need to know where your phone is and to make sure there are no duplicates in the system. That's almost 30 years old now! So if you connect the car, you get similar situation.
https://www.destatis.de/EN/Service/EXDAT/Datensaetze/mobility-indicators-mobilephone.html [destatis.de]
There is things you can choose. Convenience or privacy, not both. If you want both, then you have to rely on laws of the country to make sure your convenience data is not misused (as per the laws of the country and not your imagination). If you don't like and want control 100% of it, go ahead, shun all tech. But don't expect the rest of the world to hold their breath.
Also, still not China, so you are allowed not to have a phone or carry it with you. In China, if you don't have your phone with you at all times, maybe that means you are hiding something and get arrested these days, especially if you are of some minority. So, be careful if you wish for "strong leaders that get things done" instead of boring, strong bureaucracies that you most likely live in.
(Score: 4, Touché) by SDRefugee on Monday August 01 2022, @10:01PM
OR keep driving an older car, before they started putting all this bullshit in cars. I drive a 2013 Hyundai Elantra, gets pretty good mpg in town, doesn't have ANY of the "call-home" bullshit that the newer cars have. I'm 72 and I'm pretty damn sure I'll keep driving this car till I can't drive anymore.
America should be proud of Edward Snowden, the hero, whether they know it or not..
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday August 04 2022, @12:10PM
I have a car from 2007 and there are all sorts of reasons why I shall continue to drive it until it drops apart. This shit is one of them. I do take my phone with me but it is switched off unless and until I need to phone some emergency service. I find my situation quite convenient thanks.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Barenflimski on Monday August 01 2022, @05:33PM (1 child)
In my perfect world, I grow carrots. The seasons change. Everyone quits reading the "news" and then deciding how their day goes from there, and instead looks out their front window to see if the world is burning, and who needs help.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 01 2022, @06:50PM
We grow raspberries (and freeze a quart or two). About the only news we get is a daily local paper (and mostly ignore the international news syndicated from NY Times, WaPo and API). And of course the news that comes in on lovely, VT100 green on black SN!
Otherwise we're livin' your dream.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Booga1 on Monday August 01 2022, @05:40PM (3 children)
This is a gold mine for insurance companies. Imagine how gleeful they must be to charge you more, or even deny coverage for something since now they can know a huge range of things. Stuff like: how often you speed, how hard you brake, how many miles you really drive, where you drive, what time of day you drive, if you use your blinkers, wipers, headlights, seatbelt, etc... If you use your phone with the in car bluetooth, they can know how often you use your phone and who you're calling, even who you aren't calling if you sync your contacts list.
This stuff should be disclosed prior to sale, and access to the data should be made available to the owner of the vehicle. Right now the only people who really know what's going on are the manufacturers and everyone else they sell your data to. The owners are locked out.
(Score: 1, Informative) by soylentwhores on Monday August 01 2022, @06:34PM (2 children)
I wouldn't be insurable because i enjoy "spirited" driving. It's the fun part of having to drive to the store or something. I feel like i'm Speed Racer when i'm jumping rail road tracks and cornering on country highways. Have you ever heard the song "I can't drive 85"?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 01 2022, @06:53PM
I was you in earlier times. Then I came around a blind corner at speed and there were a handful of kids on bicycles across the whole 2-lane street. By luck (and past advanced driver training skill) I missed them all.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by SDRefugee on Monday August 01 2022, @10:08PM
So you're one of these assholes who think the speed limit is just a suggestion. On city streets I drive the posted speed limit and I'm constantly seeing people whipping around me and others at least 20mph over the speed limit. I don't care for those who drive at 20mph BELOW the speed limit either. BOTH of these types of drivers are dangerous and should be paying a LOT more for insurance as they're going to cause more accidents then those of us who obey the speed limit.
America should be proud of Edward Snowden, the hero, whether they know it or not..
(Score: 3, Disagree) by Runaway1956 on Monday August 01 2022, @06:14PM (2 children)
Seriously, research the data collection, and disable it. Or, hire someone who knows how to disable it, and get it done. You can search Ebay for degoogled and/or rooted and/or unlocked phones. It might be a little harder finding unlocked and rooted cars, but if you care, you can eventually find them. Or, my first suggestion, learn how to unlock your own car. Or, would that be more like learning to lock your own car, so the intruders can't harvest your data?
(Score: 2) by WeekendMonkey on Tuesday August 02 2022, @01:26PM (1 child)
I was thinking the same, but I also have an expectation that somewhere in the bowels of the software/hardware morass there will be a device that eventually stops working because it's telemetry log has become full, and that condition was never properly tested, so everything grinds to a (hopefully safe) halt.
(Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday August 02 2022, @02:07PM
It is at that point that a class action suit should be brought against the automaker, for literally putting shoddy, untested software on the streets. With more and more states jumping on the right to repair bandwagon, more and more states are likely to be friendly to the complainants. I'm expecting Elon Musk to run afoul of the courts soon, with his wankery over software crippling cars.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday August 01 2022, @06:24PM (14 children)
My car's a 2004. It doesn't even have Bluetooth and has a CD player.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 5, Interesting) by RS3 on Monday August 01 2022, @06:32PM (13 children)
My newest car is a 2002 Chevy. For sure there are no RF systems in it. I do all the work on it and I know it thoroughly. They'll have to put a "lojack" geolocator on it to track me. And I'm likely to find it.
Yes, I carry a phone, so they can track me with that.
I recently discovered: if I put my phone in "airplane mode", where there is supposed to be NO RF, shut down the phone, much later turn it on, it's still in "airplane mode", but it tells me a voicemail is waiting. Wait, how did it know, it's in "airplane mode"? Obviously it will "ping" the tower in "airplane mode", violating the RF silence requirement.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 01 2022, @06:55PM (2 children)
Time for a Faraday cage for that bad boy.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday August 01 2022, @07:27PM (1 child)
Wrap it up in aluminum foil.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 01 2022, @07:45PM
Silly, aluminum foil is for hats. Get with the program!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by weirsbaski on Monday August 01 2022, @08:30PM (6 children)
That's fine for the near term, but how long do you think they'll continue to make new 2002 cars?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 01 2022, @09:50PM (2 children)
> ...how long do you think they'll continue to make new 2002 cars?
What's a hundred years, give or take? My friend drives a 1902 car, it's fun but 30-35 mph is about the top speed. Perfect for getting around town. Of course when something fails he has to manufacture a new part, but everything is pretty simple and he knows how to do that (or has suppliers that do). The buggy parts are available from the Amish buggy shops.
It's one of these, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holsman_Automobile_Company [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday August 02 2022, @03:33AM
Now I'm jealous. What a beautiful machine.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday August 03 2022, @01:06AM
What engine powers it?
I don't think I'd go 35 on that thing! Probably not a good idea to make quick steering moves at 35.
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday August 01 2022, @10:13PM
You have to learn how to make your own car.
Not from scratch, but based on something. I am learning it on my 2005 truck. The plan is to get a newer car - one without rust - strip it to the bone and rebuild.
Back to my truck, it's gonna be immortal I believe. I already "freshen up" everything suspension wise and if engine or transmission give, they are available for rather little moneys as long as one is willing to do it himself.
If one picks up a popular for modifications car, high end aftermarket parts are available which would make the baby real nice and without any shit.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Reziac on Tuesday August 02 2022, @03:38AM
I drive a 1991. Formerly drove a 1978. Can still get parts for both, and older, cuz there are Ford aftermarket manufacturers for classic parts.
Jay Leno's Garage now uses 3D printing (how's that for irony, given the topic) to concoct what can't be found.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by RS3 on Tuesday August 02 2022, @01:08PM
Your sarcasm aside, I don't care. I will keep any older car running as long as I wish. If it truly became unfixable, or destroyed in a crash, I'll buy another older non-communicating car and keep it running. Others here have commented a similar sentiment. I especially like the 1902 car story. I have a 1929 Ford Model A, if worse comes to worse. :)
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday August 01 2022, @10:39PM (2 children)
I tested my phone and it's working as it's supposed to. Until I turn off airplane mode, no data comes in after a restart.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 3, Informative) by RS3 on Tuesday August 02 2022, @01:14PM (1 child)
As far as you know your phone stays quiet, ... but a better test would be to look at actual RF.
I use a (wonderful) wireless headphone pair- mostly for TV, but I can plug any audio source into the transmitter. It's 900MHz FM. Annoyingly it picks up phone RF noise. I can move things around and minimize the noise, but the point is- I can hear the transmissions, and for sure my Samsung and my LG do some RF interaction even when locked in "airplane" mode. Seems like FAA / FCC should force them to fix that problem, but I wonder if anyone is watching anything or even cares these days.
ASUS phone is 100% behaved- no RF in "airplane" mode. :)
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday August 02 2022, @01:17PM
Edit: I meant to add: Samsung and LG phones do RF stuff at boot up and shutdown, but are 100% quiet once up and running.
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday August 01 2022, @10:45PM
P.S. I routinely put into airplane mode or turn off my phone.
P.P.S. Only morons drive Teslas.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Skwearl on Tuesday August 02 2022, @12:54AM (5 children)
Your connected car communicates via an rf module. Either unplugged the antenna, or putting a rf resistor inline will disable it. The resistor has the advantage of not throwing a check engine light on the models that will.
If being tracked is an issue for you, and you DON'T have your phone with you while driving(cause it makes the same data), this is the solution.
I look forward to buying on the gray market, white noise/false noise signal injection for said modules.
Skwearl Grey
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bradley13 on Tuesday August 02 2022, @05:49AM (3 children)
This is the way. And since *some* connectivity is needed (OTA updates, for example), add a convenient switch. The car will just have to think it spends most of its life in a parking garage or tunnel with poor reception.
Long-term,things like the GDPR need to apply to car manufacturers. And be enforced, of course, which is the bigger problem.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Tuesday August 02 2022, @08:52AM (2 children)
Read my lips - I DO NOT WANT OTA UPDATES TO MY CAR!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 02 2022, @10:28AM (1 child)
> Read my lips
I don't think this means what you think(?)
Bush 1 used the phrase in his campaign with a mouthed, "no new taxes." Then later he (under pressure from Congress) raised taxes. Very nuanced discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read_my_lips:_no_new_taxes [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 3, Touché) by coolgopher on Tuesday August 02 2022, @02:15PM
It was a tongue-in-cheek phrasing, as I doubt anyone could lipread written text.
(Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Tuesday August 02 2022, @07:25PM
Exactly. The weak point is right here: