France is working on a program to let people lease EVs for €100 per month:
France is preparing to launch a new electric vehicle subsidy program that would give people the ability to lease an EV for €100 ($100) per month. Budget Minister Gabriel Attal announced the plan over the weekend on the country's LCI news channel, reports Bloomberg. "We know that for many French [EVs] remain very expensive," he said, adding that the government was working to figure out how quickly it could implement the measure.
For context, France is significantly behind on that front compared to countries like Norway. Last year, battery-electric and hybrid vehicles made up nearly two-thirds of all new car sales within the Nordic country. Much of what's driving adoption there is a subsidy scheme that allows car buyers to avoid taxes that are found on internal combustion engine cars.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by HammeredGlass on Tuesday September 06 2022, @07:51PM (4 children)
sic semper tyrannis
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 06 2022, @09:23PM (3 children)
Litigation has turned ownership into a liability. Leasing passes that liability on to somebody else
(Score: 4, Insightful) by darkfeline on Wednesday September 07 2022, @01:23AM (2 children)
Must be a pleasant dream to think you won't have any liability just because you're leasing.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 07 2022, @05:19AM (1 child)
Granted, as operator of the machine you are liable, but if the machine malfunctions, you are not. As owner you would be, for failure to properly maintain the machine. I ride public transportation to avoid all liability. Nobody can blame me for the wreck, and I can still sue like hell, win - win
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 07 2022, @11:54AM
Leasers would still have that problem. You're not leasing just for the weekend, but for periods of time over which maintenance would be an issue.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 06 2022, @07:59PM (13 children)
Why buy a new car with a $600/month payment, or lease a new car from the dealer for $500/month, if you can lease an EV from the feds for $100/month?
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by HammeredGlass on Tuesday September 06 2022, @08:12PM (9 children)
and the govt creates another monopoly, but it's magically okay because it's not a capitalistic entity like a business that has to meet a budget or go under
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday September 06 2022, @08:28PM (4 children)
What do you see as being the downside?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by HammeredGlass on Tuesday September 06 2022, @10:22PM (2 children)
the student loan business which the U.S. govt now runs and has run for ~15-20 years has resulted in a guaranteed pay raise for every faculty/staff in a college or university as they know that the govt. will rubber stamp any financial aid loan asked for, even with no possibility of repayment cuz you can't include student loans in bankruptcy. the universities/colleges are the ones making money off of this situation
when the govt grants loans for whatever the unis are asking, they are enabling the "cost"(price) of college to go up as the student just does the thing they need to do to go to college and that's get the giant loan. the giant loan is only necessary because the colleges raised the price with no push back from lenders or lendees as the money was guaranteed by the govt which never defaults because they just print money these days
(Score: 3, Insightful) by helel on Wednesday September 07 2022, @01:24PM (1 child)
Yes, nothing highlights the inefficiency of government quite like profit driven entities jacking up prices and creating a debt crisis!
That's not to say that what you describe isn't a problem, simply that it's a problem that stems not from a government monopoly but rather from the refusal to create one. If the government had simply extended public education to include free community college we wouldn't be in this mess.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Thursday September 08 2022, @02:12AM
Nope, instead of a quality product that is overpriced, we would instead have a shut product hat is overvalued, i.e. the average metropolitan public school system.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday September 06 2022, @10:53PM
(Score: 4, Insightful) by RedGreen on Tuesday September 06 2022, @09:52PM (3 children)
"and the govt creates another monopoly, but it's magically okay because it's not a capitalistic entity like a business that has to meet a budget or go under"
At least is not some parasite corporation exploiting you but your own government doing the business where there is a hope in hell you may get treated fairly. If not you get the chance to vote the scumbag politicians out and see if the next lot are any less brain dead, unlike the slime ball corporations who never seem to pay the price no matter how heinous the deed committed. Or in the case of the French they just might rise up and chop the heads off the ignorant bastards who fucked them over, they have a history of doing it or simply massive riots in the streets on the tamer occasions.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by HammeredGlass on Tuesday September 06 2022, @10:12PM
state boots always taste worse because you HAVE TO deal with the state OR you get the bullet
corpo boot also tastes awful as well, but at least you usually have a choice even if that choice sacrifices a luxury you really really want, but at least you don't get the bullet
the problem arises when you think you are entitled to the things you want and are willing to make others taste state boot just so you get what you want, but
if you can't get the state to force it, then you get the state to force corpos to act as their proxy and then we are back to getting the bullet
your bullet ideology is the problem
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday September 06 2022, @10:56PM
Keep in mind that the biggest corporation in France is France. Funny how people complain about not getting treated fairly, and then advocate digging the hole deeper.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 07 2022, @02:24PM
Hi, welcome to Reality. You must be new here.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Tuesday September 06 2022, @10:37PM (1 child)
Euros € are pretty much the same as the US $ now days. One € = .992893 $. So 200 € = 200 US $.
"It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they have been fooled" Mark Twain
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Tuesday September 06 2022, @11:00PM
Please excuse me, I read the headline as € 200. Old eyes and small font....
"It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they have been fooled" Mark Twain
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 07 2022, @04:03AM
The Chinese know when the price is right, see small battery EVs on AliExpress. Here's one to get you started, it outsells all the Teslas in China:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804495943457.html [aliexpress.com]
Made by the General Motors affiliate in China, base price under USD $6,000! $100/month ($3.50/day!) for 5 years covers the whole cost (ignoring interest on the loan).
Doesn't meet US crash regulations, so would be hard to get one in here, but I think the rules for microcars might be easier in Europe?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 06 2022, @08:06PM (8 children)
An interesting issue that will need to be addressed in the not-too-distant-future is how to pay for road maintenance as EVs are more widely adopted. At least in the US, a lot of that is supposed to come from the gasoline tax. They're going to need to figure out how to either start taxing EV owners proportional to their driving, or come up with some entirely new way to pay for roads.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday September 06 2022, @09:03PM (4 children)
Many states already charge an electric vehicle tax that replaces the gasoline tax.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday September 06 2022, @09:07PM (3 children)
I haven't really given this much thought, but it seems that a tax based on vehicle weight and miles driven would be somewhat fair.
(Score: 5, Informative) by draconx on Tuesday September 06 2022, @09:45PM (2 children)
The reality is that private passenger vehicles cause effectively zero wear and tear on roadways.
When the US authorities studied this back in the 1950s (the so-called "AAHSO road tests") the rule of thumb established that the road wear is proportional to the fourth power of the axle weight of the vehicle. This means that a single loaded transport truck at ~10t/axle is, in terms of road maintenance, about 10,000 times more problematic than a passenger car on the same road at ~1t/axle.
The laws in many jurisdictions reflect this, and is why passenger vehicles aren't typically charged road usage fees or asked to stop at weigh stations while transport trucks are.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday September 06 2022, @10:42PM (1 child)
Depends on your roadway: proper hard surfaces that can handle heavy trucks? Yes, cars are negligible.
Gravel roadway with poor grading / standing water? Small motorcycles splashing through the puddles will dig them down into potholes.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 07 2022, @12:46AM
When people are talking about charging vehicle owners in order to pay for road maintenance, I don't think anyone actually cares about the impact of light road users on poorly-maintained gravel roads, which (by definition) don't cost a lot to maintain and the vast majority of which are probably private roads that aren't the responsibility of the state to maintain anyway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 06 2022, @09:26PM (2 children)
Start by reading the odometer when registration is renewed. Doesn't sound difficult to me
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 07 2022, @02:27PM (1 child)
Oh, I didn't actually drive those miles. I propped the rear of the car up on a jack and ran it in reverse so my dad wouldn't know I borrowed his hotrod...
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 07 2022, @06:53PM
Those fancy new "electronic" odometers just count revolutions of the wheel, forward or reverse
(Score: 3, Insightful) by progo on Tuesday September 06 2022, @08:51PM (9 children)
EV makers are balking at battery replacements and you can find plenty of stories of people having to write off the whole car and buy a new one because the battery is worn out.
If a customer leases an electric car at €100/month, how many years is that before customer payments alone have covered the COST of the providing the car? How many car lifetimes is that?
Who's paying for this, really? Money printer go brrrrr...
(Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday September 06 2022, @09:58PM (7 children)
Well.... first: unlike petrol powered cars, the EVs can't reach the French countryside from Paris, so... that many fewer weekenders screwing up the peace and quiet, not to mention wearing out the roads and requiring road capacity improvement projects. That's a major savings to the taxpayers.
Next, the reduction in urban smog is going to cut down on (yet again: taxpayer funded) hospital admissions.
The €100/month EVs will, no doubt, be made domestically, using a significant quantity of domestic components, cutting down on (yet again: taxpayer funded) unemployment.
Since the price alone sells the EV, there will be no markup for advertising / marketing, etc....
Yeah, it's coming out of the taxpayers, but it should give back 5, maybe 10% of what it costs in "intangible benefits..."
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday September 07 2022, @03:23AM (1 child)
https://www.theautopian.com/france-plans-to-subsidize-100-euro-lease-options-for-entry-level-evs/ [theautopian.com]
Also, while you can no doubt name people who drive 1000km every weekend, most people don't actually drive long distances.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 07 2022, @10:13AM
Most don't, but with a population of 11 million, even 1% of Parisians is a lot of traffic.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday September 07 2022, @06:15AM (4 children)
Rubbish - of course they can. Do you imagine that Paris is surrounded by a belt of desert or something? Can they travel to the furthest parts of France. No, they cannot, but neither can ICE vehicles without refuelling.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 07 2022, @10:23AM (3 children)
And what is the EV recharge network like outside the metro area? And what support do the country locals seem likely to give for improvement of it?
The whole comment was a bit tongue in cheek, but there is some truth in it, amplified by the fact that cheap metro oriented EVs won't be equipped with the most capable batteries, and noone with any common sense will be stretching their range to the absolute limits where charging stations are sparse, and potentially over utilized.
Imagine being down to 30km of range remaining and pulling up to one of three charge stations within those 30km to find a 6 hour queue of cars waiting to charge. Your app tells you that by backtracking 15km you can reach a station with only 2 hours queue, but when you passed it up a few minutes ago it only had a one hour queue and this station was only 15 minutes queue... Fun weekend in the country, isn't it?
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 07 2022, @02:36PM
EV recharging networks suck in cities. There are no recharging facilities on the street for regular city residents. They also suck in the countryside. There aren't enough EV drivers to justify building recharging facilities. So most of the recharging sites are basically suburban, or in select, very specific locations in urban cores that are not meant for residents to use.
I love EVs and would very much like to have one. But if you do not own your own home and don't have regular access to a charger there is a very definite limit to how many EVs can be accommodated on the roads right now. At the moment it's fine to drive most places in an EV, or to handle most suburban commutes with an EV, but not for long. But add a little more and there's going to be queuing at the four spots at the Tesla supercharger that take 20 minutes to recharge the car to 80%, or god-knows-how-long to charge at a CHAdeMO spot if you have a Nissan Leaf.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Wednesday September 07 2022, @03:39PM (1 child)
I drove from NW France to Toulouse only a few weeks ago. There are plenty of refuelling stops on the autoroutes (averaging about 40km apart) and at least half of them now have electric charge points. I haven't got an electric car so I don't know how much it costs to use them, how long charging takes or how often there is a queue - but at the places I did stop to refuel there were always spare bays. It is easy to plan a route on my Tomtom GPS that includes charge points.
Off the autoroutes I have no idea of how easy it is to find a charge point, but I live in a rural area and there are 4 within 20 kms or so according to my GPS. I have also seen cars being charged at private homes (the connector illuminates with a pulsating LED to show either charging or charge complete). It makes quite a strange site late at night.
The situation might be very different in other countries but it seems that electric cars are at least viable in France.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 07 2022, @05:09PM
At current adoption rates, yes... but what's the share of EVs on the road at the moment? If they suddenly shift that up by a factor of 10 or more (as might happen with a super-low cost leasing program) it can create slow-to-change situations regarding recharging stations, queue times, etc.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 07 2022, @02:44PM
That's a business opportunity. Being able to swap out a car's rechargeable battery pack and recycle the old one will become big business.
Think about it: if after 10, 15 years your EV's battery range has dropped more than you like and you can get a new battery pack for $5K instead of buying a new car, you're gonna jump on that. Heck, I would jump on that now.
We have a plug-in hybrid that we bought used. Its battery range had dropped from 45 miles brand new to 35 miles when we got it; it takes care of 99% of our driving needs even so, but if we need to drive into the city or regionally and back, the gas engine kicks in. The gas engine is powerful, but we hate it because the battery mode is so much quieter, smoother, and more responsive. We would love to drive on battery all the time. So if somebody offered me an after-market upgrade of our battery pack that would give us, say, 200 miles of range for the same physical footprint, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Appalbarry on Wednesday September 07 2022, @04:06PM
Beyond cars, France has outlawed new gas and oil furnaces in homes and has significant programs to allow most people to upgrade heating systems, insulation, windows, and other things the make their homes more efficient and green.
Right now about 70% of electricity is nuclear, with wind and other renewables accounting for another 15-20%.
North America can learn a lot from France. Plus when prices jumped last year after the Ukraine invasion, France cut their gasoline tax to help out out ordinary motorists.
Now, don't ask me to explain why diesels are still so damned popular here...