from the anything-the-Met-police-can-do,-the-SFPD-can-do-better dept.
San Francisco police can now watch private surveillance cameras in real time:
Police in San Francisco got a boost to their surveillance powers this week after the city's board of supervisors voted on Tuesday to grant the police department access to private surveillance cameras in real time.
The vote, which passed 7–4, approved a one-year pilot program that will allow police to monitor footage from private cameras across the city with the camera owners' consent. The San Francisco Police Department (SFPD) will not have continuous access to the cameras but will be able to tap into the network under certain conditions, such as during the investigation of crimes including misdemeanors and property crimes. The SFPD will also be able to access private camera footage during large-scale public events such as protests, even if there is no suspicion that a crime has taken place.
"This ordinance essentially gives the SFPD the ability to put the entire city under live surveillance indefinitely"
Civil liberties groups such as the EFF and ACLU were strongly critical of the new measure, which they argue will increase the surveillance of already marginalized groups within the city. In a blog post, EFF policy analyst Matthew Guariglia wrote that the wide range of crimes that could trigger camera activation would allow blanket surveillance at almost any time.
"Make no mistake, misdemeanors like vandalism or jaywalking happen on nearly every street of San Francisco on any given day—meaning that this ordinance essentially gives the SFPD the ability to put the entire city under live surveillance indefinitely," Guariglia wrote.
However, San Francisco Mayor London Breed heralded the new legislation as a necessary measure for increasing public safety in the city, which has struggled with rising crime rates.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Saturday September 24 2022, @03:21PM (6 children)
Most orgs know better than to make enforcement absolute. Often, however, a new bunch who doesn't understand that comes to power. Or, they do understand the intent, but don't really get why. Don't care. Instead, their interest is in abusing their power to rigidly enforce the excessive rules only against groups they're prejudiced against.
Extreme surveillance is going to make abusers more powerful.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 24 2022, @04:24PM (3 children)
To be fair, aforementioned groups really do have much higher crime rates. That said, it's a small percentage of them committing the crimes. But the rest of the group see law enforcement as prejudiced and wrongly resist police and rarely helps identify the criminals. They foolishly feel a need to protect their affinity group, seemingly not realizing they're feeding the fire. So now crime is rising because the criminals know they've been given a pass and therefore more power.
You're not wrong, but this is a runaway situation that's getting worse and worse with no end in sight. I've felt all my life that (too) many police are largely power-hungry angry sadistic abusive control-freaks.
Please tell us what you suggest that would be a better solution, keeping in mind the dynamically worsening situation.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 24 2022, @05:04PM (2 children)
San Francisco has a history of turning a blind eye to certain offenses. Those mostly being the offenses committed by homeless people. Shoplifting, violating sanitation rules and regulations, drugs - all those things that the downtrodden tend to fall into. These aren't the real criminals, of course, but when you won't enforce basic sanitation, you're asking for the real criminals to move in, and take advantage. You can go to Youtube, and find bums literally defecating in the street, in front of crowds of people, who just walk on by. There will be police in that crowd, often enough, and they don't take notice. The needles and other drug paraphernalia littering the streets are part and parcel with that.
I'm not much into vagrancy laws, but genuine unsanitary conduct has to be curbed, and vagrancy can be added to those offenses.
Toss them in jail, at least long enough to dry them out, under supervision. Send them to court, and the judge can put them into SOME KIND of intervention program.
The city created the situation, they city needs to step up and at least try to solve the problem.
If they begin to reduce the hoards of homeless, maybe they'll have time to start chasing criminals? Maybe they won't slip and fall in a pile of shit, and get jabbed with dozens of used needles while they are chasing the real criminals?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Spamalope on Saturday September 24 2022, @08:16PM
Maybe we can turn the tide. Make sure they know that every needle in the street is plastic waste outside of the recycle bin.
(next up, recycling workers getting stabbed by disease infected addict needles)
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Sunday September 25 2022, @03:54AM
Perhaps the city could provide public toilets.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Saturday September 24 2022, @07:48PM
>Extreme surveillance is going to make abusers more powerful
Yes, but rather than restrict surveillance (of public and consenting private spaces) I would rather reform the laws such that they can be enforced absolutely and reasonably at the same time.
If absolute enforcement of a law is not intended, it should not be a law... More like a guideline you might say.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Tokolosh on Saturday September 24 2022, @10:50PM
"Once you've built the big machinery of political power, remember you won't always be the one to run it." -- P. J. O'Rourke
Trump people had the biggest hard-on for the FBI, CIA, NSA, militarized police. Not any more.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by end rant on Saturday September 24 2022, @03:23PM
I am usually the first to disagree with these kind of things, but San Fransico is a shit hole and they need it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Saturday September 24 2022, @04:29PM (1 child)
Are they carefully avoiding mentioning the camera name and brand, or is this the "old story" of the Amazon Ring cameras?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday September 26 2022, @03:58PM
It is outrageous to have police using privately owned cameras on homes and workplaces.
These should all be replaced with government owned cameras!
Why did they not extend these powers to permit police to use private cameras in laptops, tablets, phones, television sets,
bathroom fans . . . er, oops . . . I wasn't supposed to mention that one.How often should I have my memory checked? I used to know but...
(Score: 5, Troll) by VLM on Saturday September 24 2022, @04:31PM (2 children)
This is San Fran, so they must be talking about straight white Christian males? They don't commit many crimes so what are they investigating?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday September 24 2022, @07:52PM
You would be surprised how many laws SWCMs violate when SWCMs aren't writing the laws...
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 5, Funny) by Spamalope on Saturday September 24 2022, @08:20PM
The Vegan Action Group needs footage to identify anyone eating meat in the city!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 24 2022, @07:59PM (1 child)
Just be sure to focus the cameras on the police.
Pretty neat trick, letting criminals run loose so that the mayor can scare people into letting the city spy on them.
(Score: 2) by Spamalope on Saturday September 24 2022, @08:10PM
Where is the CCTV; Council camera TV?
I especially want to see all private conversations about blocking apartments for the poor and disadvantaged in SF so they have to commute in (anyone making less than 200k).
(Score: 3, Troll) by Spamalope on Saturday September 24 2022, @08:14PM (7 children)
Without access to 4k camera footage, how will they stop smuggled plastic straw use and aluminum can recycle deniers?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Tokolosh on Saturday September 24 2022, @10:52PM (5 children)
https://wholefoodsmagazine.com/columns/legal-tips/three-felonies-a-day/ [wholefoodsmagazine.com]
(Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Sunday September 25 2022, @12:26AM (4 children)
Oh look, some of those FBI games I've been talking about!
(Score: 3, Touché) by mhajicek on Sunday September 25 2022, @03:59AM (1 child)
"he or she will be told that this is against FBI policy. "
"That's alright agent, I don't work for the FBI, so I'm not subject to their policy."
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by aafcac on Sunday September 25 2022, @12:47PM
They can say that, but as you note, there is no requirement that the target not record it, it's just a case of law enforcement being allowed to lie to the general public, even though the public isn't allowed to lie to them. Anyways, you shouldn't be answering any of these questions without an attorney present, that is with or without a recording device, but especially without one.
The whole bit about not being allowed to lie to law enforcement is BS anyways, that should be covered under both the 1st and 5th amendments, provided you're lying about what you've done or didn't do, rather than about a 3rd party.
(Score: 2) by aafcac on Sunday September 25 2022, @12:43PM (1 child)
Trick? What idiot talks to the FBI without a lawyer, or at least some sort of a recording device? They cannot force you to talk to them. As far as the folks you listed, they were all guilty as sin. Or, do you really think that General Flynn didn't already know he was in a tough spot on the basis of the way he was operating?
Not that I support the FBI, we shouldn't be de-funding the police, we should be completely eliminating the FBI, it's a corrupt organization filled with pedophiles and the untrustworthy. They can't figure out how to stop terrorist plots without having to manufacture the plot in the first place.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday September 25 2022, @09:20PM
Then get them on what they're supposed to be guilty of.
Yes, actually. Else why talk to the FBI without a lawyer present?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Vocal Minority on Monday September 26 2022, @03:58AM
Recycling and concern for the environment is not Woke. Grow the fuck up.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Barenflimski on Sunday September 25 2022, @03:08AM
I'm really confused. They need cameras to see the crime?
The last security conference in San Francisco I was at, there were dudes pooping in corners, passed out, fighting, and selling stolen goods for everyone to see. That was just inside the convention. Outside it was basically the same thing, but all centered on drugs. The difference is that the convention only lasts a week.
Is that right that cameras are going to help when they can't even stop the obvious?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 25 2022, @11:12AM
Now they will have sharp 4k footage of your property crime to laugh about while they don't arrest, prossecute and the DA drops the charges.
SF turns a blind eye to these "low" level crimes, but surely they go after the big ones...