from the laugh-and-(some-of)-the-world-laughs-with-you dept.
'The Onion' filed a real brief with the Supreme Court supporting man jailed for making fun of cops:
When was the last time you've read an amicus brief? If you're not involved in the legal profession, chances are you may have never actually spent precious time reading one. This amicus brief (PDF) could change that. It was submitted by The Onion, which describes itself in the brief as "the world's leading news publication" with "4.3 trillion" readers that maintains "a towering standard of excellence to which the rest of the industry aspires." [...]
The Onion, of course, is the popular parody website that once named Kim Jong-un as the sexiest man alive. Its team has filed a very real amicus brief with the Supreme Court in support of Anthony Novak, who was arrested and jailed for four days after briefly running a Facebook page parodying the police department of Parma, Ohio back in 2016.
[...] Despite writing the brief in the same voice its publication uses, and despite filling it with outlandish claims and hilarious quips, The Onion made a very real argument defending the use of parody and explaining how it works:
"Put simply, for parody to work, it has to plausibly mimic the original. The Sixth Circuit's decision in this case would condition the First Amendment's protection for parody upon a requirement that parodists explicitly say, up-front, that their work is nothing more than an elaborate fiction. But that would strip parody of the very thing that makes it function.
I highly recommend reading the brief yourself [PDF]. [hubie]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 09 2022, @10:45AM (3 children)
To put things into some kind of perspective, Parma was being parodied when I was in junior high school. Dude was on the air, mocking the "Amrap" police, mayor, city council, the dog catcher, and everyone else in the city. Parma is still being parodied after 5 decades? There has to be a lot of material there! Maybe they should burn it down, and start over.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 4, Funny) by kazzie on Sunday October 09 2022, @06:15PM
You'll never manage to burn it down. Big Parma has too many vested interests.
(Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Sunday October 09 2022, @07:55PM (1 child)
I finally got free of the middle C recently. I can't imagine having to deal with the northern C.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2022, @08:01PM
Then go an octave lower
(Score: 2) by turgid on Sunday October 09 2022, @01:16PM
To be fair to them, they've never met me.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Sunday October 09 2022, @01:59PM (5 children)
Understanding this to be a pretty simple case, of the freedom to parody, I find it a little scary that this went all the way to the top. It should've never made it to the 1st appeal. The 1st trial should've been decided in favor of the prisoner, and the 1st appeal denied, end of story, if that much. More like, the man should've never been jailed, and the cops and whoever else who wanted to do that should've been stopped before they could, and themselves reviewed with an eye towards firing them if warranted. What's going on here that makes this case so hard that it needs to go before the Supreme Court?
We should re-establish a clear standard: jail is for criminal, and only the dangerous ones who might hurt themselves or others. Fines are the way to handle civil matters. Not that the creator of the parody should've been fined either, but jail? I've heard of officialdom gone wild and jailing people for overdue library books, feeding coins into parking meters, and not mowing the lawn, and other incredibly petty offenses. Every time it happens, officialdom ends up very sorry they overreacted.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by EEMac on Sunday October 09 2022, @03:40PM (1 child)
The process is the punishment.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2022, @08:07PM
Punishment for some, much profit for others. The legal system is the epitome of featherbedding
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DrkShadow on Sunday October 09 2022, @11:21PM (1 child)
spoiler: it didn't. It was dismissed very, very early on.
However, he did spend some days in jail, and for that he's suing. That was dismissed, too -- and he's been intently bubbling it up.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Monday October 10 2022, @02:45AM
The lawsuit in my eyes has pretty strong grounds:
1. The cops didn't like him, because he was making fun of them. But that's not a crime.
2. The cops knew he hadn't committed a crime, but arrested him anyways. If I'm understanding the timing correctly, they chose to arrest him on a Friday evening right before a holiday weekend, so as to maximize how much time he'd spend in jail before he'd be arraigned and be offered bail.
3. As someone who lives near Parma, OH and knows some ex-cops in the area, the cops there are absolutely corrupt enough that they'd arrest a man they know to be innocent of any crime as a form of harassment.
If this case is decided in favor of the cops, then what they're saying is that it's perfectly legal for cops to arrest anybody at all for no reason at all other than the cops don't like them. Like, you didn't know you were going out with a cop's ex that the cop is still not over, so the cop makes something up and arrests you right before Thanksgiving so you'll spend your long holiday weekend in jail. And there's no incentive for that cop to not do that.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Funny) by number11 on Monday October 10 2022, @04:30AM
Novak was found "not guilty". He'd spent 4 days in jail. Now the question is, can he sue the people who did it? Mostly police get "qualified immunity", which means "no matter how stupid, if there's not an actual court case saying otherwise, the cops can't be held responsible."
The "others" are the Parma police, who felt terribly hurt that someone would make fun of them.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by wisnoskij on Sunday October 09 2022, @02:29PM (8 children)
This seems completely reasonable. Comedians tell the truth all the time, and often use their routines to express and propagate ideas. One of my earliest memories of a stand up comic is of a Waco routine. The entire point of the routine, besides making the comic money, was clearly to spread hatred and fear of the ATF. Clearly when you are literally trying to get people to believe a certain way, specifically to hate specific people, it is important to tell the truth. Imagine a world where that comic had made up the some of the atrocities committed (for comedic affect), and imagine a world where the people killed in retribution for Waco came about from one of this comics audience members?
It is completely unclear when comics are speaking the truth and when they are making up lies. Their are literally news/political commentators that also says jokes on the same show. And some of them have clearly abused these free speech laws to sneak in lies or opinion disguised as reading the news and when caught all they do is say, it was a joke. When 95% of your audience members think you are laughing at reality instead of the joke you made up, it is not parody, it is deception. Clearly we do not want TV shows/movies/speeches to only have the requirement to tell one joke at some point to be able to literally bypass all free speech limits in the entire show.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Sunday October 09 2022, @04:04PM (6 children)
I see, so it's not the responsibility of the free individual to use critical thinking. It's someone else's.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2022, @04:09PM
Isn't it ironic?
We need a Dept of Irony to make these kind of rulings. Jokes must be submitted for approval and all harmful content removed.
(Score: 0, Troll) by wisnoskij on Sunday October 09 2022, @04:21PM (4 children)
Critical thinking needs correct information to function. Their is no critical thinking involved when your news source sneaks misinformation between truths in such a way that you believe it is true.
I have seen many of these political/current event comedy shows. No distinction is made between fact and fiction. One second they will be laughing at the news, the second they will be laughing at a made up joke. Their is no implied rule that if the laugh track comes on we know that the commentator just made up the last thing he said. Ethical journalism lists opinion and advocacy pieces separate from news reporting, which is how they prevent themselves from being sued constantly for defamation. Just using a laugh track occasionally should not be a way around the regulations everyone else needs to abide by.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2022, @04:52PM (1 child)
Wait, you're seriously calling the comedians as the problem here? Any other sources of lies you want to shut down while you're at it...? No? Here's a start [archive.ph] for you.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Sunday October 09 2022, @06:17PM
Must not mod parent +1 Funny...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 09 2022, @05:07PM (1 child)
I don't think you have a firm grasp of parody. Truth, untruth, innuendo, double meanings, all of that fits into parody.
Newscasters, anchor critters, news commentators don't get the leeway that a comedian gets, or they shouldn't anyway. If your favorite news anchor reports a story that cannot be verified, he should be taken to task. The comedian can make up anything, if it helps to get the point across. The comedian's job is to make his point, and at the same time, make people laugh, or chuckle, or at least groan. That news person, whatever his position, is to report what has happened in the real world. If/when he has a point to make, he should rely on facts, or at least interpretations of facts. It's alright to put a spin on a story, but the news guy has no room to make up his own facts.
Unfortunately, we do see news people making up their own facts, almost routinely. Leave the comedian alone, and crucify the news industry for their transgressions.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2022, @04:42AM
> Unfortunately, we do see news people making up their own facts
Bingo. And that pompous, lying, superior attitude (backed up by institutional power) is precisely what parody is the antidote for. Get too pompous and suddenly the opportunity for parody becomes too strong to resist. The modern Republican era has found a novel path, where they are so ridiculous and fake that parody doesn't work so well. That's why the comedy shows are where the serious news is done now - the truth-telling, speaking to power - while the bobble heads on TV News are doing parody (of news).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2022, @02:48AM
Yeah, I agree, Faux News is a big joke.
(Score: -1, Troll) by HammeredGlass on Sunday October 09 2022, @02:44PM (18 children)
too little too late and quite noticeable how The Onion didn't do much to fight for free speech or against the rights' abuses of their favored party until it risked their business model
(Score: 3, Informative) by turgid on Sunday October 09 2022, @04:03PM (13 children)
That's the problem when your political system only has two parties. Lampooning one can be seen as implicit endorsement of the other. My advice? Get a better political system.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 1, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 09 2022, @05:09PM
Too true. Right here on SN, because I accuse and attack the one party, most people seem to believe that I have to be a member of the opposing party. Too few understand what "independent" means.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Taxi Dudinous on Sunday October 09 2022, @06:29PM
I had one in my cart, but it disappeared before I could finish the purchase.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2022, @08:19PM (10 children)
If people wanted more, they would vote them in. There is no law that says they can't. Following the herd is more convenient, enables people to absolve themselves of responsibility. "Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos"
(Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Monday October 10 2022, @03:01AM (9 children)
Yes, but: Ballot access requirements exist in a lot of states, and the other parties don't reach those a lot of the time, and in a lot of states if they get too close too often to achieving ballot access the major parties can work together to increase the ballot access requirements.
For example, in my district, I just checked my sample ballot for the upcoming, and there's exactly 1 candidate on the ballot not explicitly affiliated with one of the 2 major parties, and 2 offices where an option even exists to write somebody in. So I literally cannot vote against both major parties in 14 of the 17 offices no matter how much I might want to. In one of those races, a major party candidate is running uncontested by the other major party, so I cannot vote him out no matter my opinion of him. And if you're thinking "Well, then you need to vote in primaries to influence which major party candidates are on the ballot", you can only have so much impact when the national party leadership has met in a proverbial smoke-filled back room to determine who is going to have the big-money backing and mainstream media coverage and thus who is almost definitely going to win that primary.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2022, @04:33AM (8 children)
Well then, these are just some of the rules we have to change. Apparently, the ballot initiative is the only way that will be possible until congress uses its authority under Article 1 Section 4 in the constitution to put the rules in nationally. We also have to vote in the primaries more actively, not let the party decide who gets on the ballot. Passively following the herd will lead us over the cliff. Only the voters can fix this. Either we do it, or we don't. The politicians we presently nominate won't, for reasons that are crystal clear. The excuses have to stop.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday October 10 2022, @10:28AM
In my state, there was a newly passed redistricting ballot amendment that was aimed at preventing gerrymandering. The party holding control of the government in my state simply passed a gerrymandered district map as usual, and after 4 rounds of the state supreme court saying "that's not OK by the new rules, do it again" and them coming back with basically the same map, that's the map we're going to be using. Oh, and nobody involved in this blatant violation of the state constitution and the will of the people has paid any fines or gone to jail for contempt or anything like that.
Power never gives up power willingly, even if it means breaking the alleged rules to remain in power. And since they're the ones holding the power, they're the ones that decide what happens when somebody breaks the rules. Isn't that convenient?
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 10 2022, @01:56PM (6 children)
We saw how that works for the two parties. The R party bowed to the wishes of the electorate, and accepted Trump as the populist candidate. The D party instead knifed Bernie in the back, and shoved Hillary down the electorate's throats. The populist candidate won, and THAT is what all the Jan 6 investigations are about. It's all about The Establishment vs Populism. No lie is too big, or too outrageous, Trump must be convicted of something and those who voted for him must be punished.
It's really pretty simple, when you've cut through all the bullshit.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Monday October 10 2022, @06:36PM (5 children)
First off, I find it absolutely absurd to claim Trump is a man of the people: The guy was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, went to fancy private prep schools and an Ivy League graduate school, and has never done anything resembling an honest day's labor of any kind in his entire life.
Second, the Jan 6 investigations are pretty clearly about what happened when Trump's supporters attacked the US Capitol and briefly took over significant portions of the building by force with the stated intent of murdering the vice-president of the US and several members of Congress, all while Trump and his senior military officers were preventing the National Guard and National Park Police from doing anything to stop it for several hours. And there's evidence of direct contact between the people doing the attacking of the Capitol and people who Trump spoke to on a regular basis.
And if you don't understand why that warrants investigation and probably a bunch more criminal charges than we've already seen, replace the name "Trump" in the previous paragraph with, say, "Hillary Clinton" or "Kamala Harris" and tell me if your opinion would change.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 11 2022, @02:16AM (3 children)
I don't think that I suggested that, exactly. I claimed that he was the populist candidate. He does have a certain kind of charisma, that appeals to a lot of people. I'll repeat myself again: I certainly never liked him. I simply found him to be less repulsive than the people who ran against him, by orders of magnitude.
Yeah the scaffold. Have you really looked at that gallows? I challenge: You build one just like it, and try to "hang" any item weighing more than 150 pounds. Seriously, all they had was a stage prop, and not even a very convincing one. I wish some of you folk would get serious.
Meanwhile, Democrats murdered Trump repeatedly in effigy, but no one thought that was terribly offensive, now did they?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday October 11 2022, @02:45AM (1 child)
How silly of me to think that the guys roaming the Capitol chanting "Hang Mike Pence" were hoping to hang Mike Pence. I said "stated intent", and that's exactly what it was. Whether they were capable of carrying out that plan wasn't relevant to whether that was the plan.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 11 2022, @05:00AM
Yes, silly. Everyone laughed their asses off when Trump was killed in effigy - but you don't get the joke of a scaffold that MIGHT have supported a 100 pound weight. The ONLY difference was, location. The people were in the people's house. Oh, silly me, this time. To think that the people should be permitted to enter the people's house. "Citizens are welcome here, unless they're angry."
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 12 2022, @09:06PM
That is truly insane! Eh, whatever, says more about you than him. His supporters are where the real danger is
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 12 2022, @04:11AM
Fact and fiction are totally irrelevant. It just has to win attention and votes, animal psychology at work, and he is our alpha male?! How the mighty have fallen...
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2022, @04:11PM (3 children)
> quite noticeable how The Onion didn't do much to fight for free speech
Except go to the Supreme Court, yeah you're right. The lamestream media hates real Americans.
(Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Sunday October 09 2022, @07:53PM (2 children)
"until it risked their business model"
gtfo
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2022, @04:47AM (1 child)
That's on a par with the Satanic Temple protesting about their abortion ritual on religious freedom grounds. Uh yeah sure... I doubt the Onion makes any money whatsoever.
(Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Monday October 10 2022, @02:25PM
They make their money by continuing to operate as a business, you dunderhead!
(Score: 2, Disagree) by choose another one on Sunday October 09 2022, @09:37PM
The Onion: We are one of the greats of Parody, see here our defence of the right to Parody.
SCOTUS: <reads brief> ha, ha, you're on form on this one, funny in places, yet reads almost exactly like a real brief, right fun's over, back to work...
The Onion: B,b,but... it _is_ a real brief, we are being serious
SCOTUS: yes, ha,ha, very good, NEXT BRIEF please
The Onion: Wait...
SCOTUS: <lowers glasses, peers over> you say you have 4.3 trillion readers... please go away and look up "credible witness"
The Onion: But it's parody... No wait it's real... Nooooo