Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by janrinok on Sunday October 16 2022, @02:02PM   Printer-friendly
from the it-seems-you-can't-keep-a-good-or-bad-man-down dept.

Elon Musk under federal investigation over Twitter deal:

Elon Musk is under a federal investigation related to his $44 billion takeover deal for Twitter.

The news came from a court filing made public on Thursday about the latest in ongoing legal disputes between the billionaire and the social network.

While the filing said he was under investigation, it did not say what the focus was.

"This game of 'hide the ball' must end," the company said in the court filing.

Mr Musk did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Twitter - which sued Mr Musk in July to force him to close the deal - said lawyers for the Tesla CEO had claimed "investigative privilege" when refusing to hand over documents it wanted.

It also said it had requested that Mr Musk's attorneys produce their communications with federal authorities months ago, but they had not done so.

Musk Says SpaceX Cannot Fund Ukraine's Starlink 'Indefinitely'

Musk says SpaceX cannot fund Ukraine's Starlink 'indefinitely':

Billionaire Elon Musk has said his space exploration company SpaceX cannot "indefinitely" fund the Starlink internet service in war-hit Ukraine, days after a proposal to end the conflict that included the country ceding some territory to Russia called his support into question.

"SpaceX is not asking to recoup past expenses, but also cannot fund the existing system indefinitely *and* send several thousand more terminals that have data usage up to 100X greater than typical households. This is unreasonable," Musk said on Twitter.

Musk activated Starlink, a satellite internet service operated by SpaceX, in late February after Ukraine's internet services were disrupted due to Russia's invasion. Its internet terminals have been crucial in keeping the Ukrainian military online.

Musk said Starlink was spending nearly $20m a month – which he called a "burn" – for maintaining satellite services in Ukraine. He recently said SpaceX had spent about $80m to enable and support Starlink in Ukraine.

However, Al Jazeera reports earlier today (16 Oct):

Elon Musk has announced his company will continue to pay for Starlink satellite internet services in war-torn Ukraine a day after suggesting he cannot keep funding the project.

“The hell with it,” the world’s richest man wrote on Saturday on Twitter.

“Even though Starlink is still losing money & other companies are getting billions of taxpayer $, we’ll just keep funding Ukraine govt for free.”

Although it was not immediately clear whether Musk’s change of mind was genuine, he later appeared to indicate it was. When a Twitter user told Musk “No good deed goes unpunished”, he replied, “Even so, we should still do good deeds”.


Original Submission #1Original Submission #2

This discussion was created by janrinok (52) for logged-in users only, but now has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Tokolosh on Sunday October 16 2022, @02:28PM (13 children)

    by Tokolosh (585) on Sunday October 16 2022, @02:28PM (#1276838)

    Well, no doubt Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon and the rest of the military-industrial complex are shipping stuff to Ukraine for free, out of the goodness of their hearts.

    Meanwhile Musk is pilloried for hinting that maybe a little recompense to cover some of the cost of his life-saving gift would be reasonable?

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Thexalon on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:27PM (6 children)

      by Thexalon (636) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:27PM (#1276858)

      My understanding is a lot of what's getting shipped to Ukraine is outdated stuff that's largely already been replaced by better stuff in US and European forces but was still sitting around in storage. So the cost of transport is all you're really talking about.

      Musk's problem was that he started with "the first hit is free", and now is trying to make Ukraine pay up. Shortly after making a public "peace proposal" that amounted to "give the Russians everything they want". And say what you will about Musk getting pilloried, but it seems to have worked, because Musk backed off almost immediately.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Sunday October 16 2022, @09:34PM (4 children)

        by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Sunday October 16 2022, @09:34PM (#1276893) Homepage
        Musk backing off so quickly demonstrated an unusual level of self-awareness. Sometimes he needs to be told ten or thirty times that he's said something stupid before he eventually forgets what it was he originally said and stops repeating it.
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
        • (Score: 2) by coolgopher on Monday October 17 2022, @12:24AM (3 children)

          by coolgopher (1157) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 17 2022, @12:24AM (#1276916)

          Nah, I think it was Zelenskiy's(?) twitter counter-poll about whether people preferred a Russia-aligned Musk or a Ukraine-aligned Musk (the latter which won overwhelmingly).

          • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday October 17 2022, @07:28PM (2 children)

            by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Monday October 17 2022, @07:28PM (#1277038) Homepage
            Self-awareness can be brought about by a slap or a glass of cold water thrown in the face, there's no contradiction.
            --
            Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
            • (Score: 2) by coolgopher on Tuesday October 18 2022, @01:09AM (1 child)

              by coolgopher (1157) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday October 18 2022, @01:09AM (#1277115)

              Sure, but is a weather-vane self-aware?

              • (Score: 3, Funny) by FatPhil on Tuesday October 18 2022, @05:25AM

                by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Tuesday October 18 2022, @05:25AM (#1277167) Homepage
                Sure - it certainly knows what it wants, and how to get it.

                But they're not as manipulative as those damn thermostats, who will get something else to actually perform the desired change for them.
                --
                Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 16 2022, @09:45PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 16 2022, @09:45PM (#1276895) Homepage Journal

        what's getting shipped to Ukraine is outdated stuff that's largely already been replaced by better stuff

        I think that is mostly true. However, there are reports of upcoming shortages, mainly in ammunition. Months ago, Biden let it be known that the primary ammunition production plant would not be permitted to sell to civilian markets. I believe (but I'm not sure) that someone gave Biden a heads-up, warning of possible shortages. However . . . the contractors who run that ammo production plant make little profit from government sales, most of their profit comes from civilian sales. And, it's a HUGE profit! Between the current contractor (Winchester) bitching, and civilians facing severe shortages of ammo, Biden backtracked on that threat.

        Of course, it isn't just the one main plant:
        https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2019/09/30/independence-defense-plant-gets-a-new-familiar.html [bizjournals.com]
        https://www.govconwire.com/2022/07/bae-awarded-1-3b-to-continue-army-ammunition-plant-operations/ [govconwire.com]
        https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jun/21/gop-calls-biden-end-consideration-ban-commercial-a/ [washingtontimes.com]
        https://asc.army.mil/web/news-ready-to-goco/ [army.mil]

        --
        Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by corey on Sunday October 16 2022, @10:04PM (5 children)

      by corey (2202) on Sunday October 16 2022, @10:04PM (#1276899)

      So he should be. We’re taking about the worlds richest person. I heard he is worth $200b. $20m/mo is peanuts. And this is saving people’s lives so this is an opportunity he has to actually do some philanthropic good for humanity. And he stuffed it completely. His response also reeks of greedy “I’m only doing it because I have to” whine.

      The argument should be “so if Musk is doing some charity then why aren’t LM, Raytheon etc?”, not the other way around.

      I think a lot of people lost respect for him after he called the Thailand rescue cave diver a ‘pedo’. I did.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Monday October 17 2022, @11:17AM (4 children)

        by PiMuNu (3823) on Monday October 17 2022, @11:17AM (#1276967)

        > And this is saving people’s lives

        Not saving Russian's lives...

        • (Score: 5, Touché) by janrinok on Monday October 17 2022, @11:45AM (3 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 17 2022, @11:45AM (#1276974) Journal

          The Russians could withdraw from Ukraine - that would save their lives.

          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by PiMuNu on Monday October 17 2022, @11:52AM (2 children)

            by PiMuNu (3823) on Monday October 17 2022, @11:52AM (#1276976)

            Probably the grunts don't get much of a say.

            Besides it's all Russia now, they had a vote (\sarcasm)

            • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday October 17 2022, @12:15PM (1 child)

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 17 2022, @12:15PM (#1276978) Journal

              I toyed with giving you a Funny moderation - but what you say is absolutely correct and way beyond being a laughing matter. The more suitable moderation is only an 'Interesting'.

              • (Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday October 17 2022, @12:33PM

                by PiMuNu (3823) on Monday October 17 2022, @12:33PM (#1276983)

                Thanks. I'm not trying to shill for the Russians or say anyone is right or wrong; just pointing out that the Russian grunts are getting caught in the middle of East vs West power politics just as much as the Ukrainians. Indeed many of the Russians now are conscripted against their free choice.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by looorg on Sunday October 16 2022, @02:47PM (20 children)

    by looorg (578) on Sunday October 16 2022, @02:47PM (#1276840)

    The whole Starlink thing appears to have turned into a bit of a trap for Musk. Ukraine asked, he provided. Apparently money wasn't an issue then. It was probably a huge PR win. High-fives and feelz all around. But I guess he didn't plan on doing it forever or that this would drag on. When he then started to twatt about how the war was dragging on and there perhaps should be some kind of peace deal that doesn't appear to have gone down very well in camp-Ukraine. So now he is stuck footing the bill unless he wants to come off as being pro-Putin. Trapped by his own hasty actions. I doubt he'll convince anyone to take that $20m a month bill, neither Pentagon nor anyone else will touch that one.

    I guess everyone else using his services will just have to cough up a "freedom tax" on the next bill or something to cover the costs. After all only a sucker uses his own money ...

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by helel on Sunday October 16 2022, @03:33PM (3 children)

      by helel (2949) on Sunday October 16 2022, @03:33PM (#1276845)

      Yes, selling thousands of stations to Ukraine (paid for by the US, UK, and Poland) and then claiming publicly that it was charity did net him allot of accolades earlier this year. I guess the real question is whether or not the PR is worth the cost of looking bad now if he stops providing service to the units he's already sold.

      --
      Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
      • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2022, @06:32PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2022, @06:32PM (#1276870)

        The musk-shilling in this thread is great, I do not know why this got rated flamebait

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @12:06AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @12:06AM (#1276912)

          You must be new here.

      • (Score: 2) by captain normal on Sunday October 16 2022, @07:30PM

        by captain normal (2205) on Sunday October 16 2022, @07:30PM (#1276882)

        I don't think this deserved a "flame bait" mod. Yes Mr. Musk and Starlink did offer and provide terminals and moved a few satellites around and may have contributed 80 to 100 million U.S. dollars to delivering and maintaining the network. He deserves much credit for these actions. However;
        "The roughly 20,000 terminals now being used in Ukraine are paid for by SpaceX, at least three Western governments and other allies, according to a SpaceX document shared with The New York Times."
        https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/14/technology/elon-musk-ukraine-internet.html [nytimes.com]
        Which seems to at least indicate that the expense was not entirely out of Starlink's pocket.

        --
        "It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they have been fooled" Mark Twain
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:36PM (14 children)

      by Thexalon (636) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:36PM (#1276861)

      When he then started to twatt about how the war was dragging on and there perhaps should be some kind of peace deal that doesn't appear to have gone down very well in camp-Ukraine.

      That's putting it mildly.

      Let's start with what the "some kind of peace deal" he tossed out there was: His peace deal was "Russia keeps Crimea and everything it's captured so far". Right around the same time that Putin's proposal was "let us keep Crimea and everything we've captured so far". And right around the same time that Ukraine's forces have been re-taking control of more of the territory in question and Russia has been desperate enough to start drafting people out of prisons and wherever else they can find them to go fight. It would be sort of like the New York Yankees up 4-2 in the 7th inning, saying to the other team who has the bases loaded and their slugger coming to the plate, "Hey, why don't we just stop playing now and let this score stand? We just want a fair deal for everybody."

      As for how it went over in Ukraine, Ukraine's ambassador to Germany told him, "very diplomatically", to (and I quote) "fuck off".

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by legont on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:57PM (13 children)

        by legont (4179) on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:57PM (#1276867)

        Musk was put, albeit briefly, on Ukrainian list of enemies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myrotvorets [wikipedia.org]

        --
        "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by FatPhil on Sunday October 16 2022, @09:46PM (11 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Sunday October 16 2022, @09:46PM (#1276896) Homepage
          You'll need to define this "Ukrainian list of enemies". How does a country have a "list of enemies"? How does it endorse this? How does it publish it? How do people get added to, or removed from, this list? Back up all your answers with the nation's official governmental documentation, please.

          If you mean "some marginal extremist and mostly irrelevant Ukrainians have a list" then that's another matter. All that requires is that there are a few marginal and extremist Ukrainians. And given that there are over 40 million of them, and people as stupid as you exist wherever you are, you'd expect a few to be equally stupid in Ukraine too, it's practically unavoidable.

          Congratulations, you've (a) committed the logical fallacy of "nut picking" (and yes, I'll explain that as being the "finding the worst examples" equivalent to "cherry picking"); and (b) demonstrated the inability to tell the difference between a country and a few people resident in that country.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by legont on Sunday October 16 2022, @11:00PM (7 children)

            by legont (4179) on Sunday October 16 2022, @11:00PM (#1276904)

            Cool. I don't like this list too. So, can I have you on my list of Americans who believe this web site run by a bunch of extremists?

            --
            "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday October 17 2022, @07:31PM (6 children)

              by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Monday October 17 2022, @07:31PM (#1277040) Homepage
              Absolute classic category error, were you trying to be funny?

              If so, I can return the humorous gesture: please add me to your list of Americans who think you're a total retard.
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
              • (Score: 2) by legont on Monday October 17 2022, @10:32PM (5 children)

                by legont (4179) on Monday October 17 2022, @10:32PM (#1277087)

                I was just making sure you really called people who run the site "extremists". That's because I also believe they are extremists. I was just looking for similar minded people.

                --
                "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
                • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday October 18 2022, @05:14AM (4 children)

                  by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Tuesday October 18 2022, @05:14AM (#1277164) Homepage
                  Top Tip: If you have to put words into the mouth of your interlocutor in order to make your point, you're probably putting words into the mouth of your interlocutor.

                  Top Tip II: For the slower minded in the room, that's a Bad Thing(TM).
                  --
                  Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
                  • (Score: 1, Redundant) by legont on Wednesday October 19 2022, @01:01AM (3 children)

                    by legont (4179) on Wednesday October 19 2022, @01:01AM (#1277337)

                    I guess it means you did not call them extremists. I suspected so.

                    --
                    "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
                    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday October 19 2022, @01:21AM (2 children)

                      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Wednesday October 19 2022, @01:21AM (#1277341) Homepage
                      If you check what I wrote, you'll see that I called you a retard. If you check what else I wrote, and read for about 10 times asmuch comprehension as you have done so far, you'll eventually work out why. I'm not holding my breath.
                      --
                      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
                      • (Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday October 19 2022, @11:44PM (1 child)

                        by legont (4179) on Wednesday October 19 2022, @11:44PM (#1277478)

                        It seems you are really afraid to end up on the same list as Musk.

                        --
                        "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
                        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday October 20 2022, @11:27AM

                          by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Thursday October 20 2022, @11:27AM (#1277519) Homepage
                          So much so, I even programmed my Honda ASIMO from 2000 to automatically rub either my name or Musk's name off any list that contains both.
                          --
                          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday October 17 2022, @03:14AM (1 child)

            by Reziac (2489) on Monday October 17 2022, @03:14AM (#1276932) Homepage
            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday October 17 2022, @07:26PM

              by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Monday October 17 2022, @07:26PM (#1277037) Homepage
              Message ambiguous - do you think larouchepub.com should be shot? Or do you yourself want to be shot for forwarding the URL of the list? Or should SN itself be shot, for bringing it to my screen? If the first or the third - how does one shoot a website?
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday October 17 2022, @04:46AM

            by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 17 2022, @04:46AM (#1276941)

            You'll need to define this "Ukrainian list of enemies". How does a country have a "list of enemies"? How does it endorse this? How does it publish it? How do people get added to, or removed from, this list? Back up all your answers with the nation's official governmental documentation, please.

            "Your name will also go on ze list!"

              (Wait: that's the wrong country...)

        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by legont on Monday October 17 2022, @12:49AM

          by legont (4179) on Monday October 17 2022, @12:49AM (#1276921)

          Wow, I got multiple troll for stating a fact. I guess we are infected.

          --
          "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by legont on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:55PM

      by legont (4179) on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:55PM (#1276865)

      Perhaps, Russian "experiments" with foreign satellites over the last couple of weeks was the reason of sudden Musk's pacifism. https://www.jpost.com/international/article-719293 [jpost.com]

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
  • (Score: 4, Informative) by quietus on Sunday October 16 2022, @02:51PM (11 children)

    by quietus (6328) on Sunday October 16 2022, @02:51PM (#1276841) Journal

    I'm not a particular fan of Musk, but you have to acknowledge that the guy has made engineering back sexy again, at least in the United States; and he has done more to single-handedly combat climate change than any other businessman or -woman. For that he deserves to be praised, and honored.

    However, in the interest of discussion, I'm going to add [part of] a Kommersant (Russian newspaper) article about the case, of a few days ago.

    SpaceX warned the Pentagon in September that it may stop funding the Starlink satellite network in Ukraine, CNN reports [cnn.com]. The company asked the military department to cover the costs. SpaceX estimates that $124 million will be spent on the delivery of equipment kits for satellites by the end of the year, and about $400 million in 2023 — CNN notes that Starlink provides communication between the Ukrainian military on the battlefield.

    The channel refers to a letter sent to the Pentagon by SpaceX's sales director on September 8. To date, Ukraine has received about 20 thousand Starlink satellite stations, and the creator of SpaceX, Elon Musk, said that this cost the company $80 million, and by the end of the year the costs will exceed $100 million. The letter revealed that about 85% of stations in Ukraine were paid for — at least partially-by countries such as the United Kingdom, the United States, and Poland. In particular, the US Agency for International Development has spent about $3 million on Starlink equipment and services in Ukraine. Almost 9 thousand stations were paid for by Poland, 1.7 thousand-by the US authorities. One station costs $1.5 thousand, a set of two — $2.5 thousand. Foreign countries also paid about 30% of the cost of connecting to the Starlink satellite Internet, which costs $4,500 per month. The remaining 70% of the amount was covered by SpaceX itself.

    From the documents sent by the company to the Pentagon, it turned out that in July, the commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Valery Zaluzhny, wrote a letter to Elon Musk. He said that during the fighting, about 500 satellite stations are destroyed every month. The general asked to supply Ukraine with another 6,200 stations, as well as to ensure the supply of 500 stations per month in the future. In response, SpaceX asked Mr. Zaluzhny to redirect the request to the Ministry of Defense. In a separate cover letter to the Pentagon, a consultant working for SpaceX wrote that the company has to make "terribly difficult decisions." "I don't think they have the financial capacity to provide any additional stations or services at Zaluzhny's request," the expert noted.

    A similar conclusion was reached by SpaceX's director of sales in his September letter to the Pentagon. "We are not in a position to transmit (satellite data) in the future.- "Kommersant") stations as a gift to Ukraine and finance already delivered stations for an indefinite period of time," the company's representative wrote.

    In early October, the armed forces of Ukraine announced interruptions in the work of Starlink, the Financial Times reported. According to CNN sources, the disruptions "suddenly engulfed the entire front line." "This affected all attempts of the Ukrainians to break through the front. Starlink is the main way to connect units on the battlefield, " one of the channel's interlocutors explained. CNN notes that the Starlink network is used not only for voice and electronic communication, but also for controlling drones and sending video to correct artillery fire.

    According to the TV channel, SpaceX's request to pay for Starlink supplies to Ukraine " irritated the top leadership of the Pentagon." An unnamed senior agency official said that SpaceX "has the audacity to look like heroes", although the delivery of satellite systems is not paid for by the company itself, and now it also " presented an invoice for tens of millions a month." Officially, SpaceX declined to comment on the information. Pentagon spokesman Bob Deachey told CNN that the department "continues to work on finding solutions for the armed forces of Ukraine."

    Starlink is a global satellite system developed by SpaceX to provide high-speed broadband satellite Internet access in places where it was unreliable, expensive, or completely inaccessible. In September, Starlink became available on all continents of the Earth, including Antarctica. The network, however, will not operate in Russia, as well as in Afghanistan, Belarus, Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, China, North Korea and Syria.

    On October 3, Elon Musk wrote that the implementation of four points can lead to peace between Russia and Ukraine, one of which is the recognition of Crimea as Russian. The Kremlin considered his ideas positive, and Kiev criticized the businessman. He replied that he supports Ukraine, but not the World War. Political analyst Ian Bremmer claimed that Elon Musk spoke with Vladimir Putin before publishing his plan to resolve the conflict. Both the Kremlin and the businessman denied this.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by oumuamua on Sunday October 16 2022, @04:46PM (5 children)

      by oumuamua (8401) on Sunday October 16 2022, @04:46PM (#1276850)

      The network, however, will not operate in Russia, as well as in Afghanistan, Belarus, Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, China, North Korea and Syria

      Is that because those countries block Starlink or because of sanctions?
      Wouldn't Starlink allow the local population to get unfiltered information that is free from their own government propaganda?
      BTW Cuba is now the longest sanctioned country in history :
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/16/cuban-missile-crisis-60-years-on-russians [theguardian.com]

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:27PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:27PM (#1276857)

        Sanctions; the way these things work is not on the target country itself, but instead on anyone else within reach of the long arm of Uncle Sam with a statement that says "if you do business with these entities/countries, we will get you, so don't", thus hoping for an isolating effect on the targets.
        <sarcasm>This particular approach has been working splendidly in - for instance - Cuba. It's also been super effective in effect change in North Korea, and Venezuela, and Iran. This truly is a pinacle of a Theory of Change</sarcasm>

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @12:12AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @12:12AM (#1276913)

          Your sarcastically delivered insight is spot-on. However, what else can the US do in those cases?

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @12:56AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @12:56AM (#1276923)

            Certainly not more of the same, since they haven't worked. Sanctions are intended to work by "inconveniencing" the peoples of the targeted countries so much that they themselves effect the change that is desired by the sanctioner. What those who apply sanctions fail to acknowledge is that in doing so, the sanctioner also, and primarily, inflicts untold misery on those peoples who aren't the ones in need of punishment, rather they are the ones they so claim to "spare" through sanctions. Sanctions primarily and by design do not target the main focal point of the sanctions, instead, they target innocent bystanders, in the hope of turning them into agents of the sanctioner. It's a little bit like the "why do you keep hitting yourself" game, only played with millions of people at a time.

            These types of sanctions are nothing less than the equivalent of nuclear weapons in that they make no distinction between targets in their effects: they affect the guilty and the innocent, all at the same time.
            If you wish to effect change, go sit at the table with a willingness to discuss, and come without dumb preconceptions.

            Now, I do want to state that I am not advocating for letting countries such as DPRK, Iran, Venezuela, or Cuba continue to abuse their own people, which they certainly do in an incredibly brutal fashion. But that's not part of this response. This response was solicited as "so what do we do then", to which my answer is: "Something else, I'm not in the payscale to know what it is, but this thing hasn't worked (with these particular targets), so stop being dumb and stop doing the same thing hoping for a different outcome".

            • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @05:43AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @05:43AM (#1276950)

              I agree with you, except, and my point is: we have to do something, and there are few alternatives.

              Most of the monsters you reference are non-negotiable. But interestingly a certain recent past president had pretty good relations with some of them, and the world was a more peaceful place. I wonder what changed...

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @09:47PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @09:47PM (#1277081)

                Um, we stopped being patsies and giving in to demands of anyone willing to stroke a recent past president's ego, and we stopped giving them our classified secrets?

                I too remember those halcyon days of Syrian spring where we told the Kurds "good luck with that" when someone else asked us to leave. And remember when our "bro" had that dude cut up with a bone saw? Good times, good times.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by FatPhil on Sunday October 16 2022, @09:51PM (2 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Sunday October 16 2022, @09:51PM (#1276897) Homepage
      > he has done more to single-handedly combat climate change than any other businessman or -woman

      Citation needed.

      He's been great for Chinese lithium mining, which is about as energy-intensive as any other mineral extraction industry where the thing you're after is fractions of a percent of the stuff you start with.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @12:14AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @12:14AM (#1276914)

        Do you ever have anything positive to contribute?

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday October 30 2022, @02:09PM

          by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Sunday October 30 2022, @02:09PM (#1279343) Homepage
          Yes, facts. Unfortunately for the fanboys many of those facts make Musk look like the Dunning-Kruger posterchild that he really is.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by ChrisMaple on Sunday October 16 2022, @11:12PM (1 child)

      by ChrisMaple (6964) on Sunday October 16 2022, @11:12PM (#1276906)

      Combating climate change by producing Tesla cars is about the same as combating the Earth's rotation by launching satellites.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @12:18AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @12:18AM (#1276915)

        Your sarcasm aside, you may be on to something here. How about timing all launches such that they push the earth into a higher orbit- farther from the sun = less heating.

  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2022, @03:53PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2022, @03:53PM (#1276846)

    Mais... qu'il mange de la brioche...!?

  • (Score: 3, Troll) by Entropy on Sunday October 16 2022, @04:44PM (13 children)

    by Entropy (4228) on Sunday October 16 2022, @04:44PM (#1276849)

    Then months and tens of millions of dollars later people are whining because he doesn't want to keep spending tens of millions of dollars to give
    people free Internet?

    It's like buying someone a meal, and then them complaining you don't keep doing it for months or years after every single day. He probably gave
    away more money than most people have, give the guy some credit. How many millions of dollars have you sent Ukraine?

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:13PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:13PM (#1276854)

      From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs...

      I am not worth 264.000.000.000 USD. 100 million USD to the man is 100 USD to a well off person in the US. Apples to apples, my dude.
      With great powerwealth, comes great responsibility... especially if none of that wealth is earned.

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2022, @06:34PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2022, @06:34PM (#1276871)

        I wonder if Musk also employs a fifty cent army, because they are downmodding comments like the one above...
        Nah, Musk doesn't do that, he know his shills are dumb enough to do it for free.

    • (Score: 2) by higuita on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:29PM (9 children)

      by higuita (2465) on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:29PM (#1276859)

      Isn't like that, but that may look as that, by his (Musk) own fault...

      US and other countries requested and paid the initial starlink deployment in Ukraine
      Must pick up the momentum and reported that starlink was giving those terminals and service... while they are giving the service, the terminals were paid... basically trying to take the credits for the initiative, to look good
      Ukraine used the base stations... A LOT ... if it is all military or if some people are also downloading torrents is not clear... but the usage was much higher than expected
      Ukraine also get many base stations destroyed, so they want to replace them (and requested new 500 base stations per month) (unknown who will pay, if they end being delivered)
      Musk see armament being paid millions for their goods, yet starlink didn't had any profit from this (the equipment) and only expenses, higher than expected
      Musk report that US and others need to pay for the service, or else starlink will not be able to support that for much longer
      Musk also notice that Russia will never open hand of Crimeia and that Ukraine will also refuse to do that. This is a deadlock, that will push the war for many years. While Russia can, in the worse case use nukes, to avoid losing the war, Ukraine hope is to trigger a world war 3 and NATO enter the war. Ukraine leaders are really trying to escalate the conflict, either total win or get totally destroyed, with no room for peace talks. (in ANY war, peace talks require compromises from both parties, that is the way it works. If both parties think they will win, neither will make any concessions on their final, and usually unrealistic, total win objectives)

      Finally, armament industry, Turkey and Azerbaijan are the only one really winning with this war, everyone else are losing, so having a long conflict means many years of problems for everyone else
      Don't be

      • (Score: 2) by higuita on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:43PM

        by higuita (2465) on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:43PM (#1276863)

        ignore the last line, forgot to remove that :)

      • (Score: 0, Interesting) by legont on Sunday October 16 2022, @06:13PM (5 children)

        by legont (4179) on Sunday October 16 2022, @06:13PM (#1276869)

        It's not only Crimea. The four freshly attached districts can't be removed from Russia unless constitution is changed. No matter who is to rule in the future, it's quite impossible short of destruction of Russia.

        Back to SpaceX, it's the only way Ukrainian military can communicate. Everything else is destroyed already. I am sure Russia will attempt to bring SpaceX down, at least over Ukraine, before the next stage of the war - likely within a month.

        --
        "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by tizan on Monday October 17 2022, @05:39AM (1 child)

          by tizan (3245) on Monday October 17 2022, @05:39AM (#1276947)

          huh ? It is not part of Russia ...It is disputed at best. Crimea and the other oblasts have been in Ukraine since the fall of USSR and as such recognized the UN and other countries...So Mexico claiming California back and putting it in its constitution would not make it part of Mexico, would it now ?

          • (Score: 2) by legont on Monday October 17 2022, @10:41PM

            by legont (4179) on Monday October 17 2022, @10:41PM (#1277090)

            No, if Mexico claimed California in her constitution, it would not make it Mexican. However, it would likely mean that total military defeat would be required to change their mind.

            A better example would be for Russia trying to return Alaska. Before 1959 it'd be remotely possible. After that it is not; not without destroying the US first.

            --
            "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
        • (Score: 2) by higuita on Monday October 17 2022, @11:35AM (2 children)

          by higuita (2465) on Monday October 17 2022, @11:35AM (#1276971)

          like i said, if peace is what both parties want, all those "details" can be arranged. If agreed that Crimea ( and/or any other territory) was Russia, Ukraine would change their laws to do so... if it was set that they were Ukraine, Russia would change their own laws. Something in between, both would need to change their laws to reflect that. For peace talks, both parties need to want peace, if they want war, not much success is expected

          • (Score: 2) by legont on Monday October 17 2022, @10:48PM (1 child)

            by legont (4179) on Monday October 17 2022, @10:48PM (#1277092)

            That's because you don't believe that Russia is actually a country of law. You believe Putin can do anything he wants, which is very far from truth. Putin is limited by many factors, including Russia's constitution. No one can get enough votes in Russia's parliament to get Crimea and now four more areas back. Not without destroying Russia. That's why the stakes are so high.

            --
            "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
            • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @11:04PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2022, @11:04PM (#1277094)

              The Russian constitution is routinely violated by the government. Freedom of assembly doesn't exist despite being spelled out in Article 31. Of course, Putin has had no trouble getting the rag amended to allow him to continue being President in 2024.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 16 2022, @10:05PM (1 child)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 16 2022, @10:05PM (#1276900) Homepage Journal

        US and other countries requested and paid the initial starlink deployment in Ukraine

        Not true. Only part of those initial costs were paid for. Musk payed 70% of the cost, out of pocket.

        --
        Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by higuita on Monday October 17 2022, @12:31PM

          by higuita (2465) on Monday October 17 2022, @12:31PM (#1276982)

          Well, those 70% i read as starlink SERVICE donating, the other 30% is either paid by international countries or companies or privates. This number was not related to the base stations equipment

          The exact numbers are unknown, much of this are hidden. It is known that the US, UK, France and Poland send starlink base stations, 3670 in first shipment (1500 paid by the USA), 5000 later on and it is said that should be around 25k terminals in Ukraine. Poland reported that they they paid 9k terminals, that alone is 34% of the total of terminals in Ukraine... and Poland is not as rich as USA, UK and France...

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietly-paying-millions-send-starlink-terminals-ukraine-contrary-spacexs-claims/ [washingtonpost.com]

          This one reports that 85% of the base stations were paid by countries
          https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/13/politics/elon-musk-spacex-starlink-ukraine/index.html [cnn.com]

          As i said, Musk tried to gain the credits for other people actions (something he have done several times), while he is paying much of the service, others paid much of the terminals

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by epitaxial on Monday October 17 2022, @12:32AM

      by epitaxial (3165) on Monday October 17 2022, @12:32AM (#1276918)

      He has no problems taking government subsidies for his other ventures.

  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by HammeredGlass on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:21PM

    by HammeredGlass (12241) on Sunday October 16 2022, @05:21PM (#1276856)

    Twitter + DOJ = Fascism

    This is revolting.

(1)