Arthur T Knackerbracket has processed the following story:
Almost nine in 10 software and DevOps professionals have either quit or considered quitting their job during the past 12 months, a new industry report suggests.
The results from Uniting Cloud's Software Engineer and DevOps Industry Report 2022 found that 50% of developers and DevOps professionals have moved roles in the last year. Of the 50% who have not moved roles, 71% had considered doing do.
Of the 400 UK software developers and DevOps professionals surveyed by Uniting Cloud, just 13% had not considered quitting their job for a new role – meaning 87% of tech professionals have either changed jobs in the past year of thought about doing so.
The survey once again highlights the challenges employers face retaining technology staff as hiring competition escalates.
Reasons for quitting given by respondents included taking advantage of high salaries and benefits packages being offered by employers in return for in-demand tech skills, as well as a reluctance to return to the office.
Survey respondents said they would expect to see a 21.5% increase in salary as a result of moving to a new role. According to Uniting Cloud's data, software engineers with 3-5 years of experience can expect a salary averaging up to £64,000, while professionals with both experience in both software development and DevOps can land a salary of up to £84,000.
"Seasoned" professionals with 6-10 years of experience and skills in both software engineering and DevOps see an average base salary of £97,000 – while professionals with the same years of experience in software development alone can expect £82,000.
Does this reflect your experiences in Europe, USA, or elsewhere?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2022, @12:09PM (2 children)
Once COVID made it easier to find a WFH job, I decided that I would never again accept a job that required any on-site work. Once I made that decision, I was free to move to a much more rural area where both crime and housing costs are a small fraction of what they are where used to live.
They can't pay me enough to put up with commuting and all the rest of the nonsense required for on-site work, particularly since there is absolutely no technical reason I need to be in the office.
And, if 100% remote jobs dry up, that will be my signal to retire and enjoy living in the country.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday October 18 2022, @07:42PM (1 child)
As someone else following that plan, I highly encourage anyone who is currently a city-dweller and can easily move elsewhere to consider it. To get an idea as to the difference in housing costs: My coworkers are talking about having to spend $1-$1.5 million to buy homes in a major metro area. Meanwhile, I bought my now-fairly-comfortable rural home and 5 acres for less than 10% of that, with no mortgage involved. There are some minor inconveniences, but nothing like the inconvenience of having to spend 2 hours in traffic hoping you don't get wrecked by some self-important person paying more attention to their coffee and cell phone than the road.
Just make sure you've got a good internet connection where you're going, of course.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday October 19 2022, @02:16PM
Starlink is getting close to "good enough" for WFH on top of a mountain.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday October 18 2022, @12:36PM (2 children)
When you change jobs, you're coming in with your years of experience and get hired and paid for your years of experience. Whereas if you stay with your current job, you're typically getting paid for your years of experience back when you were first hired, plus small percentage raises maybe if you're lucky.
So if you're at all thinking about it, definitely take the time to test the market a bit. You may be pleasantly surprised.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Opportunist on Tuesday October 18 2022, @01:34PM
So much this.
You should change jobs every 5-7 years. And every single time I did, my salary jumped upwards considerably.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday October 18 2022, @04:30PM
Until you hit your late 50s, then when you're hired they're discounting for your age, as opposed to your current place of employment which hired you for what you were worth when you started.
Of course, by your late 50s hopefully you already know this...
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Tuesday October 18 2022, @01:00PM
Its only fair because management has for generations resulted in major annual changes in one's job environment.
You can sit at the same desk for years, but your job will change regardless if you officially get a new one or not. May as well collect the pay raise, LOL.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2022, @01:14PM (2 children)
What? Vegie picking doesn't pay? What will you be eating this winter [theguardian.com], paychecks?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Opportunist on Tuesday October 18 2022, @01:37PM (1 child)
It may not have reached you yet, it's a pretty new fad, but you can exchange money for goods and services, among them food.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2022, @03:36PM
When there's not enough food, there's still something. Inflation. And brits, trussed before simmering.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by bart on Tuesday October 18 2022, @01:26PM (1 child)
I'm lead engineer in a small team (at strmprivacy.io), and we've worked remotely pretty much since the start of the company, which coincided with the Covid pandemic. We've been insanely productive, that's all I can say.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2022, @03:56PM
Yeah, getting the privacy out of data, that's insane but makes good business.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Opportunist on Tuesday October 18 2022, @01:43PM (3 children)
Our upper echelons are dreaming of getting people back to office, I'm having nightmares of that moment because I'm fairly sure my team is gone if they really do this.
And try, just TRY to find experienced security personnel today.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2022, @03:52PM (1 child)
What, Constellis [wikipedia.org]'s gone outta business? Try the Wagner group, I hear they need money.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Tuesday October 18 2022, @08:06PM
I don't work with amateurs.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday October 18 2022, @04:38PM
?
If they would learn how to work with their people not in the office, they just enlarged their HR recruiting pool 100x or more, enhanced retention of good people leaving town for personal reasons, cut facilities costs, improved their environmental footprint immeasurably... Old dogs that can't learn new tricks should retire comfortably somewhere and make way for the new dogs.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 5, Touché) by SomeRandomGeek on Tuesday October 18 2022, @05:29PM (1 child)
I've worked at the same company for 17 years. I don't think I've ever gone 12 months without thinking about quitting. I think that the 10% who said they haven't thought about quitting in the last year are just saying that because they're afraid it will get back to their boss.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday October 18 2022, @06:18PM
There's thinking, then there's doing...
My first years of employment, I often went out on interviews etc. they were literally the only sick days I ever took. Never found anything a better fit for me, but it certainly didn't hurt to let it leak (discretely) that I was looking around - if a raise was overdue, sometimes it would materialize shortly after I took a few "sick days."
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Interesting) by looorg on Tuesday October 18 2022, @05:51PM (3 children)
From my experience I hardly know anyone that even goes to the office anymore unless needed for other things, teachers need to teach and meet students, some of them need to meet clients and some just want to get away from the wife and kids for a few hours. But beyond that everyone that I know more or less works from home. Cutting that commute is just so much extra time you "gain" every day/week. So yes they probably did think about it, over the last couple of years, and then they all acted upon it and they are never going back, at least not to any 5 day per week 8h a day fantasy that management dreams about.
I do have an office, at least my name is still on the sign at the door. But it's now a shared office with two other people. None of us are ever or rarely there as far as I can tell. I have never run into them when I was there. I go to check my mail every now and then and for meetings and such. But otherwise I'm pretty much never there. Nor is anyone else it seems. The best part about coming to the office now is that the free fruit baskets etc are still brimming with things I can take.
The $ isn't much of a lure. Even if offered more money it would just be more money in taxes. So it wouldn't translate very well into more actual money in my pocket. At least not a sum significant enough to make a difference or be worth it. The sum would have to be so large so they would never pay it. HR or recruiters doesn't like to hear that, or that I don't want to move to city X or spend 2-3 days per week at the office with their latest flex-hybrid-work-model. I flat out told the last one I might consider it if traveling was considered work hours, and they would pay for the travel and the hotel of my choice every day they required me to be in the office in the capital. They didn't like that. They somehow can't get it into their skull that not everyone wants to move to the big city and that it isn't an attractive offer. If I was to be at the office 2-3 days per week the other days would be lost to travel, and/or if I am to do that on my dime and time then it's a loss every way you look at it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 19 2022, @03:48AM (2 children)
They are in their own right to do so, tho' don't take it as a personally offense they asked you.
What made you think they couldn't get the idea "that not everyone wants to move to the big city"?
Without asking you, they have no idea if you are willing to move or not, or whether you can be persuaded or not.
You Sherley ain't thinking "noone wants to move".
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 19 2022, @04:52AM
Behavior like trying to force people to live in high cost of living areas?
Are they asking?
(Score: 2) by looorg on Wednesday October 19 2022, @01:49PM
I'm aware. I don't take it like that. In some regard it's always nice to be considered. At least it means you are somehow still attractive on the job market. But still it gets annoying when the umpteenth recruiter tries to convince you about their glorious capital or big_city office and how great things would be if I just moved there with all their glorious office perks etc. I know they don't all talk to each other so they can't know what the others have said etc. Still it gets somewhat tiresome even tho it's not really their fault.
I'm sure there are people that do like to move to the big city. I was lured to the big cool city when I was in my 20:s to. But it turned out that visiting and living there are two very different things and I hated it and couldn't move away fast enough, even tho it took a few years. But that was then and now things have just gotten so much worse so it's an even less great offer then previous considering availability of apartments and their prices these days. Sure the pay would be higher but so would the costs.
They can't know if it's not for a position I have applied for. There is apparently word of mouth going around, other people recommend me or someone read reports and projects I worked on and so on. In that regard they can't know and I don't blame them. But it also happens with or/for positions I do apply for even when I state that I'm not moving so my offer to their offer is only valid if the job can be done remotely. I guess they just don't read that far or I dazzle them with all my previous greatness and experience (or something) and that they can't wait to call me before reading the complete letter. Perhaps I should put that at the top of my application. Who knows. Sometimes it still leads to interesting things. It's more that it's generally annoying that they apparently learned nothing from the past couple of years and now want to rustle everyone back to the office again like office-cattle.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday October 18 2022, @06:08PM (2 children)
Traditional workplaces got away with insisting on face time, for the bad reason that they didn't trust professionals to work unless closely supervised. They even foisted onto the workers pretty much all the costs of putting in face time. Office workers have to commute, in rush hour traffic, in their own vehicles, using their own gas, and on their own time, solely to ease management paranoia about slacking. As if there aren't all kinds of other ways to measure productivity.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday October 18 2022, @06:21PM
I often think of telephone switchboard operators as the model for the modern workplace. You have to come in, all the equipment you perform your work on is there. You have to sit and attend from 9-5 with scheduled lunch and coffee breaks (or whatever your assigned shift is), otherwise it would be chaos for the customers. Modern schools seem to be modeled on these precepts also. Then, with so many places of business running along those lines, it becomes a defacto standard, even for lines of work where it makes little if any sense.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Tuesday October 18 2022, @07:45PM
And the real kicker is that it's not like nobody has ever successfully slacked in an office. Particularly in the corner office.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Funny) by istartedi on Tuesday October 18 2022, @08:32PM (1 child)
As an American I'm accustomed to taking these articles that refer to the £ and adding about 30 or 40% to get a $ figure. These days, it's down in the teens and it's hard to say where it might go from here.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 3, Funny) by turgid on Tuesday October 18 2022, @09:23PM
Give it a few more weeks and we'll be at parity. By the way, when Scotland becomes independent, we're going to call our currency the Dollar to wind up the Faragist/ERG Libertarians who have just failed to get their Ayn Rand budget through and to get their chlorinated chicken trade deal with the USA. Something about the wrong president getting in and Irish heritage...
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Informative) by MIRV888 on Tuesday October 18 2022, @09:15PM
My experience is anecdotal of course, but the few good programmers I know bounce from job to job and go to the highest bidder. Good software people have always been in demand.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Tuesday October 18 2022, @09:34PM (7 children)
Inflation is mad here at the moment. It's at least 10% and rising. There are all sorts of factors such as Brexit, fossil fuel shortages, the war in Ukraine and so on. There also seems to be a lot of venture capital about with all sorts of wishy-washy startup type places offering huge salaries for "AI" and other buzzwords.
In the last couple of years I have found myself with one foot in the PHB camp again and I've been involved in hiring people. There are lots of people about with big mouths, grand CVs, lots of self confidence and not many skills to back them up. There are the usual young "rock star" coder types who are competent but have an over-inflated view of their self worth and are due to learn some painful lessons at some point soon.
I would say the £80-£90k/year salaries are probably for Cambridge companies. London City/financial types are probably double that by now.
Cambridge is a funny place. I used to work for a "Cambridge company" and interviewed at several. I think there's a secret handshake or something.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday October 19 2022, @03:55AM (6 children)
Inflation: the phenomenon in which the "free market fairy" believers in power decide it's cheaper to trash the people money than it is to use the excess of money to increase supply.
Put more concretely, raising interest rates sucks the money for possible investments into increasing the supply.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Wednesday October 19 2022, @04:50AM (5 children)
Sounds like a not even wrong moment. How do you trash someone else's money? Dig it up out of their yard and burn it? And what is people('s?) money? Who are they and how do they own what might not actually be money?
And what is the point of using "the excess of money" to "increase supply"? My take is that this isn't some weird free market fairy trick, but a standard application of the law of supply and demand which even anti-market freaks can see once they let go of their cargo cult fantasies. Increase the supply of money (or even the "velocity" of money, the rate at which it is exchanged) and you reduce the value of the money, which is termed "inflation".
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday October 19 2022, @05:43AM (4 children)
Inflation: not enough goods/services for the money on the market, prices increase.
Wasn't high demand/price a supposed incentive for the "free market" entrepreneurs to come with extra supply?
If money were a commodity, too much money on the market would mean it's easy to get money in return for anything that you barter for those money.
Go to the bank now and see how easy is to get some from them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 19 2022, @12:56PM (3 children)
Rather that the supply of money increases faster than the demand for that money.
Price of goods != demand for money. In this frame of view, a lower price of goods/services is higher demand for money.
And there's cryptocurrencies. Free market entrepreneurs are working on the problem.
The problem with your observation is that the bank is getting money back not "anything you can barter". Changes in the value of money make their job harder.
And well, it's not that hard to get money from a bank in the first place, breaking the observation further. Consider credit cards, borrowing money for a car or house, that sort of thing.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday October 19 2022, @01:58PM (2 children)
Nope. You're reducing inflation to a particular case: devaluation of money by increasing money supply. But the devaluation of money (relative to other goods) can happen without an increase in money supply, by reducing the supply of the goods - see demand-pull inflation [investopedia.com]. Funny thing, a "technical" demand-pull inflation happened in Australia when cyclone Yassi wiped out most of the banana crops [sbs.com.au] and bananas were included in the CPI (bananas have restricted importation in Australia due to biosecurity regulations).
Part of the today's inflation in Europe (and lots of other part of this world) is due to the increased price for gas and oil, flowing into the prices of energy and everything that requires energy to make/supply (which is virtually everything).
"Short supply means higher prices" (law of demand). "Higher prices should act as an incentive to produce more" (law of supply)
What are you disagreeing with?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 20 2022, @04:24AM (1 child)
While that is the near universal case, it isn't relevant to my quote which also allows for decline in demand for money. You can see that in the occasional substantial declines in cryptocurrency valuation.
"devaluation of money (relative to [all] other goods)" == higher demand for currency.
You're speaking of traditional goods valued in currency not currency. Price is inverted when the good is the currency.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 20 2022, @04:26AM
FTFM. And the banana example doesn't count as inflation because it's a single good that is affected. People aren't going to buy the same amount of bananas when the price goes up a bunch. So actual inflation, if any, will be considerably less.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 19 2022, @02:07AM (3 children)
As a senior engineer at Meta in a low COL US area, my base is $170k (with stock worth about the same when I joined, though it's down a lot since then). While it's annoying that the stock is down so much, hearing about how average Europeans are doing makes me thankful for how great my salary is.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Wednesday October 19 2022, @10:59AM (2 children)
What if you get seriously ill and rack up a $1M+ medical bill?
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Wednesday October 19 2022, @02:36PM
Now, let's be honestly, turgid.
I mean, look, NHS went through 6 years of Jeremy Cunt, followed by 2 years of pandemic and now the same Jeremy again promising to cut from everywhere.
If a brit gets seriously ill, you reckon the chances of having nhs.uk deliver needed medical services in timely fashion are still good enough [theguardian.com] to reach the billing stage? (grin, a bitter one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 20 2022, @04:35AM
What happens to just about every other cost of living factor in the UK? Medical care is an enormous cost in the US, but they do better on just about everything else (with higher education being the other major exception). Like food and shelter? Taxes? Transportation and energy? Real estate?