In a surprise move, Tesla opened its proprietary charging port and connector schematics for all EV makers and charging networks to employ at will. The open-sourced design and specification documents call the heretofore custom connector the North American Charging Standard as Tesla argues it is 'half the size, twice as powerful' in comparison with CCS.
[...] Its connector supports up to 1 MW DC output "in one slim package," continues Tesla, and the combination with the port on its vehicles will from now on be called the North American Charging Standard (NACS) in an apparent move to slow the proliferation of the CCS one that other EVs use.
The open-sourcing of Tesla's unique charging system may also have something to do with the government's requirements for CCS-compatible Superchargers on a planned nationwide network that will be built with billions in federal subsidies. According to the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act under which said billions are about to be disbursed, "electric vehicle charging infrastructure installed using funds provided under this title shall provide, at a minimum... non-proprietary charging connectors that meet applicable industry safety standards... and open access to payment methods that are available to all members of the public..."
(Score: 4, Funny) by MIRV888 on Monday November 14 2022, @09:50AM
Standardizing power ports for EV's is great idea. Tesla was kind enough to offer up their design.
Giving.... Its what capitalism is all about.
(Score: 2) by Frosty Piss on Monday November 14 2022, @11:42AM (6 children)
Tesla - and it's CEO - are afraid. They are "giving" away this "tech" because they fear they and their Great Leader will become passé.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 14 2022, @12:45PM (5 children)
> will become passé.
Have become passé.
ftfy
Tesla batteries have (afaik) the cells wired for about 400VDC so this is what Tesla Superchargers are designed for. Many of the newer BEVs are wired for 600-800VDC which requires higher charging voltage (and less current).
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday November 14 2022, @03:41PM
The NACS standard supports both 500V and 1000V, with up to 900kW charging rates.
Some are taking this as a hint that the Cybertruck will use a higher voltage battery pack, but it might also just be a move for general future proofing or compatibility with other manufacturers.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Monday November 14 2022, @04:04PM (3 children)
That's also what makes J3068 (CCS) better in the long haul: Its AC connector is just the same untransformed 3 phase power the grids gives off + rx/tx for power management and hazard prevention while the DC part was kept out as an add-on that could be upgraded at a later date if/when batteries get denser capacity and require thicker cables and pins or if transformers somehow becomes small, efficient and light enough to go on-board.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday November 14 2022, @10:37PM (2 children)
Mains electricity has a few obvious flaws for fast charging, especially in the US:
1 - It's low voltage, which means it needs high amperage to deliver the same power, which translates to thicker cables. 4x the cross sectional area (=2x the thickness) for 120V AC than for NACS 480V DC. A little over half that for 220V. (I believe US 3-phase would fall somewhere between the two, though I couldn't swear to it offhand)
2 - You *need* a high-power rectifier integrated into every car
3 - You *need* a high-power transformer in every car. Though that does mean that every car can transform the power itself to whatever voltage its batteries want.
There's no getting around the requirement for (not cheap) high-power transformers and rectifiers between the battery and the grid for fast charging - the only question is whether they are integrated into every charger, or every car.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Tuesday November 15 2022, @12:07PM (1 child)
The US power grid operates on three-phases just like everywhere else and many if not most non-residential charging stations will be wired to three-phase since they need to run new cables anyhow so you might as well avoid transformer losses while you're at it.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday November 17 2022, @03:03PM
And? Three-phase isn't magic, I even mentioned it in my opening paragraph. All my points still apply.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday November 14 2022, @12:20PM (4 children)
This move is at least 5 years late, more likely 15 or 20 years late. They should have open sourced it much earlier in the game. At this point, manufacturers will probably reject this "standard".
(Score: 2) by richtopia on Monday November 14 2022, @03:20PM (2 children)
Now it is just another standard!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GB/T_charging_standard [wikipedia.org]
As always, you can argue over what is the superior choice. Unfortunately the marked is split: CCS probably has the most vendors being supported by NA and EU manufacturers, while CHAdeMO is primarily Japanese. Tesla's plug is significantly smaller and may one day hit an upper limit on fast charging capacity, but 250KW available in the current V3 design is a lot of power.
As much as I hate government oversight, this might need a mandate just to avoid industry splintering.
(Score: 3, Touché) by tekk on Monday November 14 2022, @03:24PM (1 child)
That's actually pretty much been solved, at least outside of Japan and China. The EU requires CCS chargers, so basically all electric cars shipping to the west have dropped CHAdeMO. Telsa's just throwing a fit because they want their special charger to be the standard for reasons that you can bet have *nothing* to do with the fact that I'm sure they'd be owed plenty of patent money.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by kazzie on Monday November 14 2022, @07:50PM
And bear in mind that Tesla does use CCS in Europe, like everyone else. Are they expecting the other manufacturers to return the favour in North America?
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday November 14 2022, @04:07PM
If charger adoption was the main goal, sure.
But don't forget there was a lot of iterative changes in the charging network - initially it was free to everyone (who owned a Tesla), and as I recall they only gradually rolled out a payment system. They were also the only common charging stations in the US, which gave them a competitive edge selling Teslas.
As for other manufacturers rejecting it... maybe. But I think I read that in the US Tesla chargers currently outnumber CCS chargers 2:1 - that's a *huge* advantage, and there's *still* not enough of them to be really convenient.
I would actually be a bit surprised if most manufacturers chose to continue make their vehicles incompatible with ~66% of the currently available chargers in the country. It's not like they get any benefit either way, and adding compatibility likely just means slapping in a different charging socket and a bit of software. I wouldn't be all that surprised if most US-sold vehicles end up having *both* sockets for some time. It's not like the physical socket costs much, and the per-unit cost of more complicated software is just as free (at least assuming they develop it in-house).
(Score: 5, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Monday November 14 2022, @01:17PM (8 children)
I was thinking of buying a Tesla. But there were just too many problems. And a big one was Tesla not playing nice with charging standards, for no good reason. There's no technical reason why a different brand of electric car cannot use a Tesla charging station, but those jerks made that hard. They provide adapters so Teslas can use other charging stations, but not the opposite. Nissan Leafs can just f. off.
Then there's the misleading range numbers. Yes, 300 miles of range. Unless you drive 80 mph or faster, then it's more like 250 miles. If you use the A/C knock off another 20%. Further, you can't fast charge to more than 80% capacity. You can start a long trip with 100% charge, but after that, the rest of the day you'll be operating at reduced capacity. It is also prudent to keep a larger reserve, as charging stations are fewer, and so if there's a problem at the one you planned to use and you have to drive on to the next, it will likely be further away. For a road trip, after the first leg, the Tesla can't do more than 150 miles between charges. 30 minutes of downtime every 150 miles is decidedly inferior to gasoline powered cars.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by TheGratefulNet on Monday November 14 2022, @02:02PM (1 child)
tesla model 3 owner for about 3 yrs now. first and will be my last tesla.
I dont recommend anyone buy one anymore. service is horrible, parts are hard to find (even though they make the parts, they dont make enough spares and wait times for repairs are long).
elon is an asshole. that was a big part of the turn-off, and became more and more clear as time went on, he's not a leader I want to endorse with my money.
my next electric will likely be korean. they are taking it more seriously than most others, it seems. wont ever go back to gas if I can help it. but tesla is not the future. they jumpstarted it but they dont have long term staying power. not that company and not with that asshole still in charge.
the car is fast, I'll give it that. but buggy as hell and they dont usually fix bugs, they just add more. feh! seriously, I will never buy another tesla as long as the company is the way it is (and I see zero chance of them ever changing, esp. with the move away from the bay area and toward texas)
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 14 2022, @05:42PM
It's regional and changes between feature releases but Teslas are best sold used around the 2nd year: https://caredge.com/tesla/model-3/depreciation [caredge.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by inertnet on Monday November 14 2022, @03:23PM (1 child)
For me, safety is a concern. Electric cars can burst into flames if they crash, in which case the occupants have very little time to get out.
Today I saw a video of a Tesla going out of control, injuring and killing several people. Please be advised that this is a graphic video [dailymail.co.uk], where people are getting injured or killed. Obviously Tesla is investigating this and I'm very curious what the conclusions are going to be.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Monday November 14 2022, @04:10PM
I watched the video, and ye gods. A basic principle of almost any kind of machinery is that there be a kill switch. For cars, the brakes are the first line of defense in shutting those machines down when there is a problem. Could it be that in Teslas, there is some software between the brake pedal and the brakes, and bugs in it can render the brakes inoperable? If so, that would be the Therac 25 all over again.
Tesla's statements about the "'truth' of the incident" smell more like a prelude to a desperate attempt to blame it all on the driver. Tesla says the video doesn't show the brake lights coming on, and their equivalent of the black box shows the brakes were not used. They don't say it, but that strongly suggests the driver didn't try to brake. What if he did try, and a flaw in the system had so completely disabled the brakes that pressing on the brake pedal, however hard, did nothing?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Immerman on Monday November 14 2022, @04:12PM (2 children)
> Yes, 300 miles of range. Unless you drive 80 mph or faster,
So you're saying the mileage suffers if you drive illegally and (in most cases) grossly irresponsibly? The horror!
Or are you suggesting that you're one of the six people in the country that are going to pay to spend almost three hours driving laps on one of the few race tracks open to the public?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 14 2022, @06:53PM
> the mileage suffers if you drive illegally
80 is legal on some interstates in Utah. When I drove cross country ~7 years ago, groups of cars were moving smoothly at 85-90 mph and I just blended into the fast lane to keep up. No apparent safety problems except the obvious fact that any accident at those speeds could be more dramatic than one at 70 mph...
A number of states have 80 mph limits including Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States#Speed_limits [wikipedia.org]
Yet another reason that BEVs aren't for everyone.
(Score: 3, Informative) by bzipitidoo on Monday November 14 2022, @08:23PM
Every hypermiler knows that faster takes more energy per unit of distance. Air resistance goes up with the square of the speed. Of course, better aerodynamics would help, and all the more at such high speeds. I am baffled that Tesla has not striven for better aero.
Where have you been? The 55 mph national speed limit was repealed a quarter century ago, and now, when not constrained by heavy traffic or sharp curves, no one drives as slow as 60 mph. I've seen speed limits as high as 85 mph. On a lot of limited access highways, even 75 mph isn't fast enough. You will be the slowest car on the road.
(Score: 2) by istartedi on Tuesday November 15 2022, @05:53PM
Yeah, about the only way I can defend the incompatible connector is that it's a dongle for the free charging; but that's not how it works since Teslas without free charging use the same connector. I don't own an EV myself, but presumably it all comes down to what kind of card you swipe, not the connector.
The bigger problem we have now is charging networks and utility regulations that (in some states) forbid charging by the kWh. Have we come close to fixing that fusterclack yet?
Imagine pulling up at a gas station and you can't pump because you're not in the GasCo network, or having to pay based on how long you take to pump rather than the number of gallons. I've heard that's how it can be in some cases--but to reiterate it's been a while since I've looked in to this; but it was a sorry state for non-Tesla people since not only could they not use Tesla's chargers, they also might not be able to use some non-Tesla ones. MAYBE WE SHOULD JUST REGULATE THAT PROBLEM AWAY.
Tesla's superior charging network was supposed to be a bit of a moat. If they're giving that up, it sounds like the writing was on the wall so they just want to make up for that with a bit of PR. With Democrats not totally losing control, maybe the aforementioned regulation is in the offing.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2, Funny) by jrmcferren on Monday November 14 2022, @02:37PM (4 children)
We already have a universal connector that fits most cars, it is called a gas (or petrol) nozzle, it re-energizes your car very fast.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 14 2022, @02:57PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday November 14 2022, @05:07PM
In the USA, the nozzle on the Diesel and Gas pumps are different sizes. The Diesel pump nozzle is larger and won't fit in a regular gas tank. Most people drive non-diesel vehicles. In the event that you put Gas in your Diesel engine vehicle, I am very sorry. Perhaps you should rub two more neurons together, so you can get some sparks flying. In the USA, the biggest user of diesel are all the Semi-trailer trucks you see on the road. Considering the vast majority of them are using it for work and are professionals. It's not likely that there are many people who put Gas in a Diesel. Also, it would take a special kind of someone to put Diesel in a Gas engine in the USA.
Apparently Diesel vehicles are much more common in Europe and thus, the accidentally put Gas in the Diesel vehicle is a thing.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/1512-video-what-happens-when-you-put-gas-in-a-diesel-engine/ [motortrend.com]
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Immerman on Monday November 14 2022, @04:40PM (1 child)
Sure, but it's *expensive*. For now it's still *heavily* subsidized, but those days are numbered, and the price will eventually reflect the actual costs.
Just to put things in perspective - prices are far less subsidized in Europe, and have consistently been around $7/gallon(US) for quite a while.
Take away the tax breaks for oil companies, their near-indemnification against the cost of cleaning up oil spills, cleaning up leaking wells, contaminating ground water with fracking, etc. and the cost will need to increase substantially to cover them.
And then there's all the wars in the Middle East - those many trillions of dollars should come 100% from taxes on oil, since the only reason we're over there is to secure access to it. No, we didn't do it to depose a monster - we routinely turn a blind eye to far worse monsters that are far less well defended. And no, we never actually believed they had nukes, that was all manufactured propaganda to get us peasants on board.
And then of course there's global warming. It's now been shown in court that the oil companies have KNOWN for several decades that they were causing global warming, confirmed by their own scientists who were hired to try to prove otherwise. But they loudly lied to the public about it the whole time. Not unlike the tobacco companies with cancer - and like the tobacco companies that probably opens them up to huge class-action lawsuits.
Sin taxes will also likely be levied to cover the ongoing external costs of accelerated warming, not to mention the huge number of deaths every year that can be attributed to oil-based air pollution (the majority of all air pollution).
(Score: 3, Funny) by Common Joe on Monday November 14 2022, @07:59PM
Can we have a "needs to be screamed from every rooftop" mod?
(Score: 2) by bryan on Monday November 14 2022, @06:03PM
The original J1772 connector [wikipedia.org] wasn't that bad. I've used it in my garage to charge my Nissan Leaf for about a decade now. However, since it didn't support DC fast charging, they tacked a whole other connector next to the original circle and called it CSS. This is the same brain damage that gave us the USB 3.0 Micro-B receptacle [wikipedia.org]. Please do not support this monstrosity. Adding additional bulk to an already large connector is not ideal in any way. The CHAdeMO [wikipedia.org] that my own car uses is also a bit bulky. But, hey, that things been around since 1993.
The Tesla-style connector is a huge improvement in size and handling.