Squad says in sunny climes like Las Vegas you may never need to charge it:
It's that time of year when the CES email spam goes into overdrive. I won't be on the ground in Las Vegas in 2023 for the gigantic consumer tech trade show, but one pitch almost—well, ok, partly—makes me regret that, because it seems like an interesting idea. It's a new city car from a Dutch company called Squad Mobility; a relatively ungainly thing if I'm honest, but one that suggests a tantalizing solution to the problem of city-dwellers needing EVs but not having anywhere to charge them.
[...] The problem is that, while solar panels are a great way to get energy, you need quite a lot of area to harvest enough to run something as power-hungry as an automobile. Covering a sedan's roof with photovoltaics—as Hyundai has done with the Sonata hybrid—might generate a peak of 600 W, which is enough to run the air conditioning and keep the 12 V battery charged.
[...] Which brings us back to the Squad solar city car, designed by a pair of former Lightyear employees. Much smaller than the examples listed above, it conforms to the regulations for Low Speed Vehicles here in the US, meant for EVs that have a speed cap of 25 mph (40 km/h).
Built around a solid-looking tubular roll-cage, the solar city car is styled mostly for practicality. On its roof is a solar panel with a peak output of 250 W that feeds the 6.4 kWh battery pack. It has three-point seatbelts and even cupholders, but the biggest draw might be the price—$6,585 (€6,250) when it goes on sale in the US in 2024. That battery powers a pair of 2 kW motors, one driving each rear wheel.
Squad says that on a sunny day in the Netherlands, the solar panel adds up to 13.6 miles (22 km) of range per day; in sunnier Las Vegas that could be as much as 19.2 miles (31 km). The battery packs are swappable and portable, and fully charged the pack has a range of 62 miles (100 km). And yes, you can charge the packs via plugging into a 110 V AC outlet if it's not sunny.
"We are seeing a tremendous interest from the USA, specifically for markets such as sharing platforms, gated communities, campuses, (seaside) resorts, tourism, company terrains, hotels & resorts, amusement parks and inner city services," said Robert Hoevers, one of Squad's co-founders.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday December 11, @03:53AM (9 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 11, @04:14PM
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday December 11, @06:54PM
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday December 11, @10:45PM (6 children)
This isn't so much a car as a recreational vehicle, for park excursions etc.
I have been wanting an electric vehicle capable of 40mph to make the 10 minute run from our house to the sailboat in the marina. Speed limit on the road is 35mph 99% of the way and 45mph for about 250' from a traffic light to the marina entrance.
The regulations & laws & vehicle classification categories all conspire to make EVs either not capable of the trip, or full fledged road cars. So I just drive our 23 year old ICE beater, because it's less than 10% the TCO of any new thing that I can actually buy and legally register for use on the road.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday December 12, @12:31AM (5 children)
Same here though mine is only 14 years old. I remain amazed at all the political tricks done to make used car ownership overly expensive.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday December 12, @02:18AM (4 children)
>used car ownership overly expensive.
The only thing more expensive than used car ownership? New car ownership - by a wide margin.
I remain convinced that keeping older used cars maintained and operational is, even with their inferior fuel economy, emissions, etc., far more environmentally friendly than sending them for recycling & landfill disposal and replacing them with the shiny new disposable plastic engined models which are now guaranteed to become cost-ineffective to maintain after 15+ years due to the inflated cost of parts and the shorter life of plastic parts than metal.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 1) by anubi on Monday December 12, @11:07AM (3 children)
Just got my seventh-year renewal for the 25 year old diesel van I bought from a private party via Craigslist...
Cost if Van .. $3500.
New tires $700
Redo rear end $3000
Transmission work $4000
Paint $2000
Powder coat six tire rims, both bumpers, and hitch...$800
Upholstery $2000
Van had some electrical problems.
Glow plug system redo.. $1000
Batteries (2). ... $400
Starter motor ... $300
Alternator. ... $300
Replace entire cooling system, hoses, radiator. All hoses. All heat exchangers. All A/C components. The works.
Right at $6000.
Took about a year of off- time waiting for parts or work
Most work done by small independent businesses.
All in all, About $25,000, and it's in a helluva lot better shape than it was when I got it.
So far, six trouble free years, good solid, maintainable vehicle, about 20 mpg,
old school completely mechanical 7.3 liter International Harvester diesel engine hauls my stuff, and me; it gets me there.
It's not a chick magnet, but that's not what I bought it for. Neither will it outrun a Kia.
But I have pulled some pretty heavy stuff with it.
I have no regrets. It now shown no impending need for something needing to be replaced.
I spent far more addressing deferred maintainable issues than I did for the van itself, however I am very pleased with the simplicity and durability of this old machine.
If you are considering doing the same, the real show stopper is frame and body rust.
Don't involve yourself with a bad foundation.
Damn near everything else can be fixed or replaced. But if your frame is rusting through, let that one go. Let someone else glean off any rebuildable parts, but the frame really needs to be re smelted back to something usable. Trying to keep it will be either a labor of love or a love of labor, and will drive you to the poorhouse.
This has been my experience with the rescue of an older machine with the intention of simply placing it back in service. It's my intention that this will be the last vehicle I will ever own. I am an old guy, and this is an old machine. I am looking mostly for dependability and being inexpensive to just own, despite the fact I don't drive it very much anymore. I just need it to be there...and start when it's needed.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday December 12, @11:31AM (2 children)
In Miata land we still get terrible fuel mileage (30 mpg tops in a 2 seater, more like 24 the way most people drive them), but they are starting to do serious unibody rust removal and welding in of new metal. It's not what people call "cost effective" yet but people are doing it and for far less than the purchase loss on a new Miata.
We bought a 1999 in 2015 for $2500, and since then have put another $2500 into maintenance. No body work or paint yet, but $800 of that maintenance was a new cloth top that should be good for 15+ years. Miata are also pretty strong in the "open source" maintenance information available on the internet, like real advice about which remanufactured parts are worth the labor to install and which to avoid, not to mention diagnostics and procedures for everything.
There are carburetor conversion kits if you want to go there, but the fuel injectors and computer are pretty damn reliable and much easier to live with.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 1) by anubi on Monday December 12, @01:19PM (1 child)
I guess my big motivation to rescue an older vehicle is that I hate the construction and lcd control panels. Especially those that wash out when hit by sunlight.
My friend, another old guy, rented a newer car, and upon watching him trying to drive it, I wanted nothing to do with it. Knowing me, I would have an accident pretty damned quick. There were way too many doodads of various importance, all flashing and beeping, mostly trivial, and I had no idea what doodad did what .
Anything over 60's driver interface gets confusing. How do I make it go, make it stop, turn left or right, lights, horn, and that's about it for me. Ok, maybe HVAC and radio, but they better be by feel. I'm busy driving and can't spare attention to doodads.
My age is so showing. I consider myself a master of what I do, and driving new cars is not one of them. I'm a one trick pony and I do my trick very well.
I feel that way about nearly all my stuff. Get the good stuff. Like my Grandpa did. And leave it to the grandkids, and hopefully they will acquire a love and respect for practical design and construction. We do not live in a throwaway world.
Find a good design and make good use of it! Keep and upgrade that Miata as long as possible. That's what I will do to this old Ford. I am so glad to see parts still being made for it.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday December 12, @02:28PM
>rented a newer car
They steer for you now, not completely but they try to nudge you back into the lane if you're near the edge, or if they misread some marks on the road and think you're near the edge...
One thing I do appreciate on the new cars I rent (because we rent them for long road trips) is the automatic 4 second following distance cruise control. Set it for 70mph or whatever, and if the person in front of you is going slower, it will keep you at a 1, 2, 3 or 4 second following distance. That works pretty well for the most part and reduces my urge to pass, which is probably stronger than it should be.
>Keep and upgrade that Miata as long as possible.
It's a companion Miata to the 1991 I bought new in 1991. That one has a bit more than $5K invested, just put an aluminum 3 liter V6 in it in 2020 - you know, the engine I wanted it to come with in 1991...
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by looorg on Sunday December 11, @04:39AM (4 children)
Not sure I could call that a car. It looks like a somewhat modified golfcart, certainly all the images and models that doesn't appear to come with doors feeds that image. Or as they appear to refer to it "a city car". I guess if you mostly do city driving and never need to go anywhere beyond that and you have no need for any kind of storage or carrying anything heavier or larger then a few bags and a maximum of two people then it might do in pinch. The seat does look about as comfy as those in a golfcart.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 11, @05:04AM (3 children)
The official category used to be NEV - neighborhood electric vehicle. Not sure if that category is still in use, but as you say, similar to a golf cart, but without the low pressure save-the-turf tires.
Polaris makes some too, called GEM https://www.gemcar.com/ [gemcar.com] They bought the company from, iirc, Chrysler, and while it's slow, it is well engineered.
From a link on that page to https://www.gemcar.com/low-speed-vehicles/ [gemcar.com] It looks like the new name for NEV is LSV, Low Speed Vehicle and they are street legal on USA roads posted 35 mph or less. Same page says golf carts are 15 mph or less, and not street legal.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 11, @05:13AM (2 children)
Whoops, typo
> posted 35 mph or less
posted 25 mph or less
So matches the number quoted in tfa.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday December 11, @06:55PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 11, @07:09PM
Yep, that's what I get for posting half asleep...
(Score: 2) by istartedi on Sunday December 11, @08:00AM
This appears to be what the California regulations now refer to as a NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle). As you might imagine, there are serious restrictions on what you can do with it. I thought it might be interesting to build or buy one at a much lower price point, because it would literally only be for grocery getting and can't replace my real car. IIRC, you can't drive it on any road that exceeds 35 mph in speed limit, but you can cross other roads with some caveats that seem to imply you can't cross the road unless it's designated as a NEV/golfcart crossing point, which if true is a serious impediment. That would cut me off from the grocery store, though I doubt the local sheriff or CHP would care. I'd take it towards the developed area, cross there at a cross-walk, and merrily jaunt along on the 30 mph that runs behind the grocery store, then back. It would still not allow me to go to the county seat or adjacent towns, because the roads that take you there have 55 mph speed limits and no side roads that allow you to avoid them, which is bad enough on a bicycle or moped; but riding those on the shoulder is legal whereas I don't believe you can legally do that with this so it's actually less useful and way more expensive than a significant segment with which it competes: A moped or motorized bicycle.
As the summary implies though, it looks like a fine golf cart and may compete well in that market.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Sunday December 11, @10:11AM (1 child)
A normal electric car is about 300W/mile, so a 600W car would generate 10 miles a day in range for most of the year, or 50 miles a week, plenty of power to pop to the local shops etc.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday December 12, @12:54PM
Sure, but better for most use cases to just put the solar panels on the roof of your house.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MrGuy on Sunday December 11, @12:01PM (3 children)
Sorry. It sounds cool. So do https://solarroadways.com/ [soylentnews.org] ”>Solar Friggin Roadways.
But they’re not practical. Because they’re a poor way to generate solar power. Solar panels work best when they’re stationary, well-sited, and protected from weather, impact, and vibration.
Sure, you can generate a piddling extra amount of range while you’re driving, which sounds great. But it’s not much. It would take this charger 26 hours of peak sunlight (at least 2 uninterrupted days) to charge the battery.
Meanwhile, you’ve added a huge cost to the vehicle. You have a solar panel that will likely be spending a fair amount of time in the shade or a garage. Your solar panel has to absorb the mechanical jolts of driving around on roadways. It will have to be vibration resistant (or, much more likely, have a high failure rate compared to the life of the vehicle.).
It would almost certainly be cheaper and more effective to add the additional range by adding a little extra battery, and buying an already-existing commodity solar panel to throw on the roof of your garage to help charge it.
Solar is great. Use it where it makes sense. This is not the use case that makes sense.
(Score: 2) by inertnet on Sunday December 11, @03:05PM
You're right about the fact that this is a silly development. But this is targeted at city dwellers, who don't have a garage, or even their own roof. These people are used to impractical living, so they'll buy them.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Sunday December 11, @06:59PM
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday December 11, @10:49PM
I agree on the road, but for a slow cruising boat it actually makes some sense: https://polboat.se/ [polboat.se]
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Sunday December 11, @11:51PM
... so too scary for some Americans, but it's cheap, cheap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMiFin8yDO0 [youtube.com]
There's even a solar version (which I think means it's got a sun-roof :-)
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2-Door-Solar-Mini-Electric-Car_1600339810282.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.60f446ecrbiO8T [alibaba.com]
(Score: 2) by jb on Tuesday December 13, @01:41AM
Two motors sounded like excellent redundancy, but then came the end of the sentence...
So if one out of two motors fail, thereafter the vehicle can only drive around in circles on the spot?
Seems like a diff might have been a good idea ... after all they don't weight that much.