Autoevolution covers a truck driver Tomasz Orynski's scathing review of the Tesla Semi, calling it "a completely stupid vehicle."
Orynski focused his entire analysis on cabin usability. Tesla claimed to have "built it around the driver," but he talked about several examples of why that is just nonsense. Starting by how much space it just wastes with its central seating position. While that is the one the McLaren F1 adopted, it works better on hypercars than on trucks.
The Polish truck driver also states that the central driving position makes it more challenging to look ahead and overtake. That happens because a truck is a wide vehicle. If you are in the middle of the cabin, you are far from the edge of the lane, where you have a better view of the traffic ahead. On a two-way road, that's also where you can see oncoming traffic.
Truck drivers have to pay tolls, talk to people in gatehouses, and handle the paperwork while entering a factory or delivering anything. The Semi does not give access to a window. In fact, it has no windows that can be opened: the driver will have to get up from their seat, open the door and deal with whatever they need – even in the winter.
[...] The Polish truck driver also hates the massive screens inside the Semi. According to him, the "tablets are simply not designed for use in moving vehicles." Orynski says drivers need physical buttons that they can reach without taking their eyes off the road. He also complains about how they reflect stuff and glow too much, even in dark mode, which makes them terrible for night driving.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bradley13 on Wednesday December 14, @08:25PM (20 children)
Seriously? You can't open the windows?
Also, his points about not sitting near the lane edge are important. Anyone who has had the misfortune to drive a UK car in Europe, or vice versa, will immediately understand the problem.
Touch screens vs. buttons is an old complaint about all Teslas.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday December 14, @08:39PM (4 children)
I'm reminded of that one bit in one of the Hitchhiker's Guide books (2nd or 3rd?) about the building where you couldn't open the windows because it was Impossible for the A/C to fail.
I miss Douglas Adams.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Immerman on Thursday December 15, @12:50AM (2 children)
Amen!.
Almost as bad - I spent a few years working in a newly built university building with central heating/cooling and only fixed windows. It didn't fail often, but we all breathed a sigh of relief when it did. I spent every summer freezing my ass off, and every winter sweating like mad. Never did manage to find out who actually controlled of the thermostat so I could
smack them upside the headpolitely request that they set it to something less miserable.(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday December 15, @03:03AM (1 child)
LOL. I remember in college I had one class in a classroom where the heater was apparently stuck on "full blast" in the middle of winter...this being Wisconsin, it meant you came in from outside and had to immediately strip off your coat and 2 sweatshirts to get comfortable. Now *that* was a temperature swing :P
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday December 16, @08:23AM
I had a dorm room like that once - fortunately I could open that window, and kept it open almost continuously all through winter (I'd close it for the occasional subzero stretches), often with a window fan running. It was a weird winter having my room full of swirling hot and cold breezes.
(Score: 2) by Rich on Thursday December 15, @01:44PM
That's nothing.
Lotus tried to do away with openable windows in the Europa S1, thanks to this sophisticated ventilation system:
http://www.rdent.com/manuals/europa/s1parts/heater_and_ventilation/p1.htm [rdent.com]
If you see that sorry little unguarded fan in real life, you wonder if it ventilates at all. Almost needless to say, openable windows were back with S2.
Elon is much inspired by Lotus, so one might expect the same.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday December 14, @08:46PM (3 children)
I believe the Tesla truck cab is designed around the automatic driver, not the flesh and blood union worker who is required to sit in the seat.
Overtaking? Leave that to Kitt to decide and execute.
Paying tolls? Automatic deduction from your Bank of Mu$k transfer accounts.
Talk to people in gatehouses? ChatGPT will handle that for you with the left outside screen and microphone / speakers.
Paperwork? Didn't that all go away already?
Night driving? The LIDAR isn't annoyed with night-vision defeating glowy screens.
Windows that don't open? Get with the times - buildings have been doing away with opening windows for decades, do you really want to breathe the air on a roadway while fossil fuels (and lithium batteries and their housings) are burning out there? See also: Douglas Addams quote elsewhere in the comments.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by Adam on Wednesday December 14, @09:25PM
The cab was designed back when AutoPilot seemed plausible; when Otto was doing autonomous beer runs.
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday December 15, @01:18PM (1 child)
Automatic drivers have to sit in the middle?
Nope.
It's not for driving along with the windows open. If you RTFA it was to deal with officials at gatehouses etc.
Musk's bloated ego makes him believe that he is always right and everyone else is always wrong. So he does petty things differently in the belief that if someone else designed something it needs to be redesigned by himself, without himself really having a clue about the subject.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday December 15, @01:55PM
Sorry, /s the above. Paperwork? Isn't that gone already? was a jab at out of touch tech moguls everywhere. As for automatic drivers, I think I covered that with the union required meatbag onboard...
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 4, Interesting) by TheGratefulNet on Wednesday December 14, @09:17PM (5 children)
I have a bargain-bin phone. it has no 'five'. I ran into a friend on the street and he asked why I never call. I cant call everyone I want, my phone has no 5. "how long have you had that?" don't know, my calendar has no seven's.
(steven wright, you are king of comedy)
tesla gets stupid things wrong.
given how out of touch elon is, it all makes perfect sense, now. perfect sense.
model 3 owner, here; who cant' wait to exit the elon brand and never look back. his cars are not that great, and they passed their peak, years ago. bug count increases and we dont get fixes, we get stupid 'holiday releases'.
"dont buy a tesla and avoid all things elon; and you'll be on the right path, my son."
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Wednesday December 14, @10:03PM
Musk is hard at work to solidify a winning counter-argument to win your son's heart. [electrek.co]
compiling...
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday December 15, @02:59AM (3 children)
What? Is this a reference to that old "free calls to 'friends and family'" thing in the '90s, or what?
I thought "unlimited calling as long as you don't actually use it that much" was fairly standard in 2022?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 15, @10:45AM (2 children)
It’s just a joke.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday December 15, @06:04PM (1 child)
Yeah, I got that, but I've never heard anybody use the phrase "my phone has no 5" before.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday December 15, @06:31PM
Oh, or is this "my phone has no '5' key, so I physically can't call you"?
In which case I still don't get the "7" part of the joke
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday December 15, @02:54AM
FTFY
Anything that makes a driver take their eyes off the road for more than a quick glance to read critical information such as speed, fuel level, engine temp, etc. is a design choice that is beyond stupid to the point of being borderline ludicrous.
If I am eventually forced to get a car with a touch screen MFD I will promptly re-wire as much of it's control systems to actual switches as I can, warranty be damned..
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by legont on Thursday December 15, @06:39AM (2 children)
SpaceX has no physical buttons either.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Thursday December 15, @09:28AM
You mean, Musk accidentally left a SpaceX design on his Tesla desk, when the engineers said: a message from Holy Musk, must do.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday December 16, @08:34AM
Actually it does. All the emergency "direct drive" override controls in the Crew Dragon capsule have physical controls - the touch screens are there for everything else.
Under normal usage you won't use the physical controls much, if ever, because under normal usage you're a passenger in a fully autonomous spacecraft that happens to allow you to use the touchscreen to issue commands to the autopilot. As well as controlling all the various other systems that use the thousands of buttons in other space capsules, none of which you are expected to be messing with while flying - that's what copilots are for.
(Score: 2) by ncc74656 on Thursday December 15, @09:35PM
Indeed. My family spent a couple years in England in the mid-'80s, and when we hit the road in the Chevette we had shipped over, it was on whoever was in the front passenger seat to say when it was safe to pass. Quite often, I was in that seat...at age 12-14 while we were there.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 14, @08:35PM (1 child)
Looks like we're going to need to make it driverless. :(
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 15, @09:58AM
in response: Tesla Semi Labels the Driver "A Completely Stupid Pedophile"
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Snotnose on Wednesday December 14, @09:40PM (5 children)
The trucking environments in the USA and Europe are a lot different. In Europe truckers don't drive 3500 miles in a haul. In Europe turns are tighter, hence they want the driver seat over the engine.
The USA drivers don't (mostly) pay tolls. They drive 10 (?) hours, then park and eat/sleep.
I'm not a truck driver, nor a truck driver fanboi. But for an EU truck driver to say a truck doesn't meet his needs means nothing to a USA truck driver.
I just passed a drug test. My dealer has some explaining to do.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by liquibyte on Wednesday December 14, @10:04PM
I was a "USA" truck driver. The concept is stupid and the execution is stupid. This will be a fad for a short while and then go away again.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday December 15, @03:03AM
So noted.
By your own admission you are not qualified to speak for truckers anywhere.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday December 15, @03:51AM
Read the article earlier: didn't he say there's no room for a bed?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 15, @06:31AM (1 child)
The physics involved in building and driving a truck is pretty much the same, anywhere on earth. As an ex-driver, I can relate very well with every point the author makes. The length of the work day, or the number of tolls paid, or which side of the road you drive on, doesn't change the driver's needs even a little bit.
Someone needs to put Elon's ass behind the wheel, and put him on the road for about three months. He WILL reconsider some of his arrogant decisions about building trucks, and cars as well.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday December 16, @08:38AM
Heck, as a car driver I can relate to most of them.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by istartedi on Wednesday December 14, @10:46PM (1 child)
Anything Musk said about helping drivers was just marketing. He's literally on the record as wanting to make driving illegal, turning it all over to automation.
If he could, he would make it with no windows at all. [youtube.com]
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 15, @10:03AM
Then what will you complain about??
(Score: 3, Informative) by SomeGuy on Thursday December 15, @02:28AM (1 child)
According to him? No, that is according to everyone who has a brain and doesn't take marketing abuse up the ass.... which is him, me, and maybe two or three other people here. Yea...
You know in the future ever trucker will be hauling their tankloads of Brawndo to the corn fields in these Tesla Semis because they've both "got what plants crave".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 15, @10:07AM
5 types of sugar? [youtube.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by azAZp on Thursday December 15, @11:15AM (5 children)
The Tesla truck is a failure not only by cabin standards, but because it cannot haul enough weight and it takes forever to recharge.
The problem with the newer cars are all the "helpful" assists that are supposed to make you "safer" (tm). They are poorly designed and executed, and very much unsafe. I had the very annoying experience of the car constantly steering me "back" into the lane (Audi and Skoda), the Skoda even started bleeping at me because - on the highway on temporary lanes due to construction work - I didn't hold the geometrical middle of the lane. A colleague of mine has a newer VW that will also randomly break when cars leave the highway. Not to mention that Teslas already killed a number of people.
And this just to name a few examples.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 15, @01:20PM
I'm with you, the implementation of many/most ADAS (advanced driver assistance systems) is currently poor. It's also silo-ed -- antilock brakes & stability control is separate from automatic emergency braking, is separate from lane keeping & blind spot protection. And all of these may be separate from telematics & driver awareness monitoring.
However, this may get better(?) For example, here are Toyota researchers discussing a way to merge the various separate ADAS systems into an integrated system that (may) react more appropriately. Their plan is to start with a better understanding of the current driving situation and then decide if any ADAS is appropriate. No guarantees that they will be successful, but kudos (from me) to Toyota for trying:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2YKNGvzfdh2sPZF39KH957FZ59H4oMH9 [youtube.com]
I watched the "MF Leonard: Full Video" version and the discussion/questions were good.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Thursday December 15, @01:23PM (3 children)
Umm...do you mean 'brake'?
Older VWs do the same when in 'intelligent' cruise control. the cruise-controls holds a particular, speed dependent, distance from the vehicle in front. Vehicles leaving the highway slow down, both in absolute speed, and in forward velocity (a component of the velocity is off the highway when they change direction), which results in the distance decreasing, so the following vehicle brakes to maintain the set (speed dependent) distance.
In addition, the forward-looking radar has a wide field of view. the processing ignores objects approaching the vehicle at the speed the vehicle is travelling, but an object that moves to the side of the field of view and slows down 'suddenly' appears. As a human, seeing a vehicle deliberately move out of lane, especially with an indicator, means you tend to assume it will stay out of your crash-zone, so you don't worry about passing it at highway speed. The cruise-control is not equipped to make that assumption (amongst other things, the radar can't see the indicator), so it has to work on the assumption that the object ahead could enter/stay in the potential crash zone.
You get used to the behaviour after a while. You can even anticipate it, and simply put your put on the accelerator to keep the speed up, and reactivate the cruise control once you have passed the turn-off.
It gets more fun going round sharp bends. The angle of turn can mean the vehicle ahead of you slips out of the speed-dependent distance measuring area, so your vehicle accelerates into the bend towards the vehicle already there, which is often slowing down around the bend. It's worst when the driver in front has already chosen to drive more slowly than the speed target set on your cruise control - the acceleration into the bend can be significant. I'm sure less experienced drivers can be caught out.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 15, @02:46PM (2 children)
> It gets more fun...
For some definitions of fun! No thanks. 40 years ago, a friend called this sort of design decision (your older VW example), "sadistic German engineering" -- We know vut you vant and you vill do it our vay, and you vill be happy.
Isn't the tight turn case one where the automatic cruise control should integrate to the steering and yaw rate (rate of vehicle turn) sensors? Once it knows the car is in a turn beyond the useful coverage of the radar it should drop out of the automatic cruise control. See my post earlier in this thread which links to recent Toyota research on integrating the various ADAS systems.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Thursday December 15, @07:55PM (1 child)
I agree: integrating the sensor's 'sensitive' field of view with the steering sounds like a sensible thing to do. I can only guess the VW engineers did not, as it added yet another failure prone system into the mix.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 15, @08:34PM
Here's another example from a VW. There was a Passat, c.2000 in the family. Idling through a parking lot in Drive it maintained a steady speed. Crank over the steering wheel to turn into a parking spot and the car would speed up! Once this resulted in a fender bender and other times it was a surprise, but damage was avoided.
Later another relative who worked in the car industry suggested this explanation -- the idle control program looked at the various loads on the engine, including the power steering pump (still hydraulic PS at that time). If any of the loads increased, the idle speed would be increased to match the extra load. From the engine control software point of view, I guess you could say this makes some sense, keep idle as low as possible for fuel savings?
But the result is: turn the steering at idle and the car speeds up. Seems like a pretty clear lack of any kind of system thinking, and lack of "edge case testing" to me.