Tracy Harpster, a deputy police chief from suburban Dayton, Ohio, was hunting for praise. He had a business to promote: a miracle method to determine when 911 callers are actually guilty of the crimes they are reporting. "I know what a guilty father, mother or boyfriend sounds like," he once said.
Harpster tells police and prosecutors around the country that they can do the same. Such linguistic detection is possible, he claims, if you know how to analyze callers' speech patterns — their tone of voice, their pauses, their word choice, even their grammar. Stripped of its context, a misplaced word as innocuous as "hi" or "please" or "somebody" can reveal a murderer on the phone.
So far, researchers who have tried to corroborate Harpster's claims have failed. The experts most familiar with his work warn that it shouldn't be used to lock people up.
Prosecutors know it's junk science too. But that hasn't stopped some from promoting his methods and even deploying 911 call analysis in court to win convictions.
Do you think repackaging this prejudice in "Artificial intelligence" would get it accepted as "science"? Do you think the false conviction rate would be any different?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @01:14PM (12 children)
I find it most interesting that we are supposed to have a crisis with hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens [fairus.org] annually violating our borders, and this is a problem because they are damaging our economy, so, in response, DeSantis spends millions of dollars to shuffle a few dozen legal asylum seekers from one place to another in the country, neither of which is Florida.
AOC grandstanding for relief for people outside her district [houstonpublicmedia.org] is one thing, at least she is elected to a federal office. I would really appreciate it if _our_ governor would kindly stay in his lane while serving the people of Florida and not redirect our state funds into federal issues having the most tenuous of connections to Florida.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @01:16PM (11 children)
Oh, bloody hell, wrong story... Something in the wetware got crosswired, I thought I was replying to this one [soylentnews.org].
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Touché) by RS3 on Friday December 30, @04:55PM (10 children)
Hmm, maybe aforementioned "wetware" was whetted with a higher octane than it was designed for? :^)
Regardless, I'm sure there'll be a spirited discussion when pending story is posted.
(Score: 3, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @05:34PM (1 child)
Channeling Ethanol Fueled no doubt, what is his handle lately?
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Funny) by RS3 on Friday December 30, @05:52PM
Very good. I had all but forgotten about him. His spirit (sorry, had to) lives on. :-}
(Score: 3, Funny) by mcgrew on Friday December 30, @08:31PM (7 children)
Higher octane than designed for? You'll burn your exhaust valves that way!
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday December 30, @10:52PM (6 children)
I wasn't going all the way to nitromethane. But if I do burn them, that'll give me the excuse to build up a stronger engine with better valves and seats. :)
Not sure if you're a bit of a car nut- I am somewhat, not all-in though. Recently learned that top-fuel nitromethane burners don't bother with coolant anymore. They just run an extra-rich mixture. It seems to work. Not sure how bad it is to breathe all that nitromethane vapor though...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 31, @02:06AM
> top-fuel nitromethane burners
There is a fascinating series of interviews with Tom Jobe of The Surfers drag racing team. They may have been the first drag racers to work up to nearly 100% nitro around 1960. They worked out how to keep an engine in one piece with all that mitro. Jobe was a young engineer (or engineering student) at that time, but later became a big part of HPD, Honda's California based racing company. I don't know all that much about drag racing, but the interviewer and Jobe made a number of things very clear through these stories. Starts here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5tx-ntJEXw [youtube.com] The first episode is a little slow, but it gets better quickly.
Wait until you get to the story of buying nitro in a 55 gallon drum...and taking it back to the shop in a VW Beetle with the front passenger seat removed!
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 31, @02:38AM (4 children)
When you're only running for 6 seconds, you can get away with a lot. If you think about the profile of that 6 second run, keeping the combustion cooler with a rich mixture probably has more impact than any water jacket cooler would - unless you like boiling the water in the jacket...
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(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday December 31, @03:00AM (3 children)
Actually it runs much longer, including burnouts, staging, etc. But yeah, the way excess nitro keeps the valves cool, far more than water jackets can. And of course the valve itself can't get cooled by the jacket. Well, supposedly there's some heat transfer while it's closed.
They did used to put water in the jackets, and it would boil off during the run. I'm not sure when they tapered that off in favor of super-rich nitro.
Have you ever been to live nitromethane racing? There's absolutely nothing like it. Maybe a major rocket launch, but you can't get close enough to those to get the full effect.
Everyone should experience funny car / top fuel drag race at least once in their lives. You'll either love it, or hate it.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 31, @02:16PM (2 children)
We lived "near" the Gator Nationals track, 6 miles I think, could hear the big events clearly...
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(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday December 31, @10:30PM (1 child)
Wow, hmmm, could be good or bad I suppose. I wonder if NHRA tracks give out free tickets to locals? I would.
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 31, @11:21PM
No, but they ran very accessible "test and tune" events.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 30, @02:13PM (21 children)
TFL goes on to discuss how Tracy Harpster has both testified as an expert and also given paid seminars to many police dept's about his "911 analysis". Freedom of Information requests on this activity have mostly been ignored. This looks like it could become a big deal--as more falsely accused become publicly known.
It's a pretty scary article to read.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @03:20PM (20 children)
>It's a pretty scary article to read.
"The system" (police custody, court, jail, etc.) is a pretty scary place to be, by design.
In the old days I feel that the justice system got away with much of their arbitrary behavior based on "well, son, you're just ignorant of how justice works" sort of pandering with "the bar" and all the black cloak airs of mystery.
Along with everything else in the world that needs fixing, increased transparency in justice (and civil court as well) would make justice (and daily life) more predictable, and predictability is good for all sides of business. The business of fear of the unknown / unpredictable only benefits the side with the most power.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Friday December 30, @06:14PM (19 children)
I could write volumes on my many negative observations and opinions of our "justice" and court system. Suffice it to say: the fact that cases are overturned on appeal, quick websearch says 7-20%, shows how flawed the system is, and mostly based on whims and capriciousness of "judges".
But wait, there's more- not all cases are even appealed- for many reasons: largely money, sometimes more so due to the emotional and physiological stress. Otherwise that number would be higher, maybe much higher.
And then you have the many cases thrown out- not ever heard by the appellate court.
It's horrific, and my sincere wish is that nobody I know, including all here, ever has to deal with any court in the US.
I'd like to hope an AI could be a better judge, if there was a way to make an AI that showed 100% Spockian logic. But since humans create the AI, IMHO it would take quite a lot of cross checking to keep bias to a minimum.
To OP post: there is a thing they use called "voice stress analysis". I don't know much about it, and I put it in the Junk Science / Quack Medicine department. Like every other form of "lie detector", sure, it works some of the time. But how do we have a just society when one of the foundations is a gamble on a random sample?
For the record, I'm of the USA's Founding Father's philosophy of not punishing innocent people. IE, verifiable facts are needed before meting punishment.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Friday December 30, @06:37PM (18 children)
The problem with voice stress analysis (other than being just plain wrong some of the time) is that it doesn't determine a reason for the stress (nor do it's users care, they just like lots of red lights). Reasons include:
Any reasonable person would agree that all of those are stress inducing, either for voice stress testing or the more conventional polygraph/magic 8-ball.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @07:09PM (11 children)
>Somebody thinks you've done something horrible and they seem intent on jailing you for it
Is it still paranoia if they're really out to get you?
Police work is all about prejudice, recognizing where and when intervention is required to do the most good - arresting when that's the right option, and not breaking too many laws in the process. Police are given a tremendous amount of latitude to "arrest and release" without consequences of false arrest, etc. for themselves. Being able to quickly assess a situation and reach a reasonable conclusion about who needs arresting and who doesn't is almost entirely "I know a guilty person when I see them" skill.
All of that above has absolutely no place in a court of law, determining actual guilt or innocence. Unfortunately, police end up being primary witnesses in a lot of cases (If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!), and some of them hone their skills of judge and jury persuasion to help their conviction rates, because who doesn't love being right all the time? I don't have a good proposal for fixing this, other than potentially barring police from the courtroom (which seems unlikely) and letting their written statements speak for themselves - making said written statements available to the defense well before the court appearance. It would be a dramatic shift of power in the prosecution vs defense balance, but are we looking to wrongly convict more innocent people, or less?
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Saturday December 31, @04:22AM (10 children)
And just to add to it, cops are still granted a lot of automatic trust in the courts in spite of a growing mountain of evidence that they often "testi-lie" in court (their word for it!).
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 31, @02:34PM (9 children)
My illuminating experience in traffic court was when the officer stood up and read a complete fabrication from "his notebook." Faced with that unexpected story, I sounded unconvincing in my rebuttal. Meanwhile, the officer is used to this response to his fabrications and rolls off a well practiced retort.
Oh, yeah, small town, judge and officer have same last name....
"I'm sorry sir, I'm going to have to find you guilty."
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(Score: 2) by aafcac on Saturday December 31, @04:35PM (8 children)
That's why the prosecution isn't normally allowed to enter anything into evidence without the defense getting a shot at evaluating it ahead of time. Traffic court can be a problem as that's mostly a matter of rubber stamping most of it, reducing some and acquitting on very little.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 31, @08:49PM (4 children)
Traffic court in Miami was automated: video judge allowed you to enter a plea of no contest to receive no points on your license in exchange for attending traffic school (which cost about as much as the ticket.)
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(Score: 2) by aafcac on Sunday January 01, @04:31PM (3 children)
When my brother got a ticket, they let a bunch of people to plead out in exchange for it being suspended with no further action unless he got another ticket in a certain time frame in which case he'd have both tickets to pay.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 01, @06:48PM (2 children)
That's pretty cool. In Miami I attended about 5 traffic schools in the space of maybe 3 years...
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by aafcac on Sunday January 01, @11:00PM
We used to have jaywalking school back before the city decided that jaywalking citations were racist. Now we have idiots wearing all black crossing dark streets where you can't see them at all.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday January 01, @11:57PM
Hmmm. Sorry to hear. At what point (yes, another pun) do they yank your
license?
(Score: 3, Informative) by RS3 on Saturday December 31, @10:44PM (2 children)
Yes, and in legalese it's called "discovery", and you can make a motion for summary dismissal due to lack of discovery. At least make a motion to have that particular "evidence" disallowed. Local judge probably won't care, but appeal and filing for judicial review might overturn it.
Trouble is, trials are not automatically recorded, so I don't know how to properly handle an appeal. I've only been to traffic court a few times, and long ago. I had to appeal the only one I lost. Cop didn't show up, but judge still grilled me and caught me off guard with the way he asked a very loaded question, but somehow I explained the scenario and he let me go.
Ticket was for supposedly running a red light, which was absolutely false. It was one of the older intersections where one of the lights was around eye-level, and on the far side of the intersection. In fact, I saw yellow the whole way through. Tiny town, late at night, no traffic, light rain, light went to yellow when I was about 15 feet (1 car length) from entering intersection. Not physically possible to stop in that distance, and as long as the light was not red when you enter intersection, you have not violated the law.
Now I run a dashcam. Always.
Lawyer brother told me that if it's one person's word over another's, judges always believe cops over defendants.
And, cops get paid time and a half to go to court.
Deck is stacked against you!
(Score: 2) by aafcac on Sunday January 01, @04:27PM (1 child)
Legally, if the cop doesn't show up, the judge is mandated to toss the ticket as none of the evidence it ticket are admissible without a witness to testify under oath about the relevant details about the ticket being issued and what led to it.
Also, these proceedings are supposed to be recorded do that if anything does happen there a record to base an appeal on one the judge messes something up.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday January 01, @11:48PM
I strongly wish courts ran under much more definitive rules and guidelines.
It may vary state-to-state. Some years ago my lawyer brother said even if the cop doesn't show up, a judge can still find you guilty.
Brother has also said how judges have huge leeway in rendering their decision, especially lower / municipal court judges. Hence overturns on appeal.
It's possible that if you're clever with words and understand court protocol, you might simply say "I move the case be dismissed for lack of prosecution or witness." I don't know if that will fly, or irritate the judge.
In some (many?) states, even in lower court traffic cases a local DA or assistant DA will be in court and prosecute you. So again, your strategy might work, I just don't know.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Friday December 30, @07:53PM (5 children)
4) You're scared to death because you know the system is imperfect (badly broken) and innocent people are in prison, and have been executed.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 30, @08:34PM (4 children)
You are just a file in the docket. Our society (including all its members that let it happen) has become psychopathic
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 31, @02:41AM (2 children)
>Our society (including all its members that let it happen) has become psychopathic
Starting somewhere shortly after the invention of agriculture, IMO.
If you want to be optimistic about it, you can tell yourself we're improving... slowly... in fits and spurts, but I feel like there's an upward trend overall, but maybe that's because history dwells on the bad stuff.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Saturday December 31, @10:23PM (1 child)
If you want to be pessimistic about it, a lot of the improvements you're talking about happened in literally the last century, and more than we'd care to admit of those improvements are absolutely, measurably going the other way now.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 31, @11:19PM
The Magna Carta wasn't a bad thing, and if you weren't a slave there were incremental improvements from then until emancipation.
Really, it has been the harnessing of fuels to replace manpower that drove the interesting changes of the past 170 or so years. Transitioning that from the oil baron model to individually owned solar power should be interesting...
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday December 31, @03:04AM
> psychopathic
add sociopathic
(Score: 4, Touché) by looorg on Friday December 30, @03:24PM (2 children)
Is that even a question? The answer is clearly YES. Just slap some AI on there to make the decisions for you and then make sure you add in some BLOCKCHAIN for the logging and all will know that this is solid science and on the up and up. No doubt about that. Buyers will be lining up to get some of that AI-powered lie detection, it will sell like hotcakes. It will still be utterly junk and complete crap but the buyers will line up, the defense claim will be that it's AI so it's beyond prejudice and completely true and safe.
False conviction rates? I'm almost certain the reasoning will be along the line that they, they crooks, are all probably guilty of something so this or some other crime will do. The guilty will be punished by the AI Judges.
I have so far seen a multitude of AI claims when it comes to call screening, mostly related to trying to detect different kinds of frauds and fraudulent claims for insurance and welfare. They all claim the same or similar in that they can more or less detect lies in speech depending on speech patterns, voice modulation etc. In some regard they are trying to (re-)invent the lie-detector but now with AI and without all the electrodes attached to various places on your body including your rectum.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @05:38PM
>I have so far seen a multitude of AI claims when it comes to call screening, mostly related to trying to detect different kinds of frauds and fraudulent claims for insurance and welfare
Not exactly the same, but you know about the Dutch welfare story? https://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-scandal-serves-as-a-warning-for-europe-over-risks-of-using-algorithms/ [politico.eu]
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday December 30, @07:29PM
But see, if you take garbage data, and put it through a very complicated computer program that hardly anybody will understand, then you can pretend that the output isn't garbage more easily.
And conveniently, the computer problem is so opaque that nobody can reasonably catch you if you do something nefarious, like, say, deciding that one of the factors you'll use is the billing zip code of the phone making the call, and it just so happens that your algorithm disbelieves people who just happen to be from zip codes full of the kind of people you want to discriminate against. Hypothetically, of course.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 30, @03:42PM (1 child)
No repackaging is required. Government loves fucking people over, and government employees love nothing than wielding their small amount of power over you like a tin-pot dictator.
All we had to do was claim the vaccine, masks, and 'stay home, stay safe' was "science" and the world bought it hook, line, and sinker.
The bar for getting something accepted as "science" is so low, you don't have to tack on fancy stuff like "AI". Just get the police chief and all his staff to start shouting "wHaT?!? yOu dOn bElIeVe iN sCiEnCe?!?!?!?11oNe".
That'll get everyone in line...
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 30, @04:22PM
All they had to do was claim the moon was made of rocks and minerals, instead of green cheese, and you lefties bought it hook, line, and sinker.
Trump 2020! Trump 2020! STOP THE STEAL!!11oNe
(Score: 4, Interesting) by krishnoid on Friday December 30, @05:06PM (2 children)
Can they subpoena the source code and/or data sets used to analyze the calls? Seems like a lawyer with some semi-techy resources could poke a bunch of holes in the software, if they didn't drop the case before making it available for discovery.
(Score: 5, Informative) by RamiK on Friday December 30, @08:18PM (1 child)
It's a neural net model trained on past incident reports and convictions against speech pattern analysis so there's no code to examine.
The problem is that the AI is simply reflecting how complaints from poor minorities typically end up with "we asked around but no one came forward so we dismissed the report as false" vs. the "we patrolled he neighborhood, interviewed the neighbors and examined the security cameras and managed to confirm the crime was committed" you'd see when someone from middle/upper class makes a complaint.
So, training an AI on systematic discrimination will simply replicate and obfuscate that discrimination.
compiling...
(Score: 3, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @09:14PM
If I understand the article correctly, it's a wetware neural net seeking to make a living by charging for training courses on how "you too can increase your conviction rate using this one nifty trick..."
At least if it were in code, it couldn't change it's story constantly.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 4, Informative) by PinkyGigglebrain on Friday December 30, @05:42PM (5 children)
This was just to gives them some plausible PR excuse for blowing off a 911 call.
LEOs have zero responsibility to respond to a 911 call.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1976377/posts [freerepublic.com]
https://fee.org/articles/just-dial-911-the-myth-of-police-protection/ [fee.org]
(be sure to read the "No Duty to Protect" section. Then consider that that could have been yourself, other family or friends)
tl;dr links
If you believe calling 911 will always work your a fool.
Someone prove me wrong. Please. I would rather be completely incorrect than even partially right.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @07:23PM (4 children)
Post hurricane Andrew, it became abundantly clear in Miami: law enforcement has limited capabilities to respond, if they can't reach you they just won't.
After our car was stolen in Miami, it became abundantly clear: law enforcement responds and helps the victims when they want to, not when laws are broken.
You want a law enforced? Hire a lawyer and sue in court. Police are tools of the government to keep relative peace on the streets, when that's what government wants.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday December 30, @07:54PM (3 children)
They aren't all that interested in that either: The only time they really care about reducing street violence is if it's starting to affect rich and probably white people.
The ritual of what happens in my nearest city when somebody they consider unimportant is gunned down on the street: The cops show up, ask bystanders if anybody saw anything. The bystanders all say "no", because to say anything else is to put yourselves in the crosshairs of whoever killed this victim, and the cops will do nothing to protect witnesses for cases and victims they don't care about. And that will end the police investigation of the matter. The victim's family members all mourn them, loudly and publicly, hoping somebody will care, but very few if any will. If the victim's relatives or friends are of the more hot-headed variety, they'll try to gun somebody else down that they believe was responsible, perpetuating the cycle of violence. That's why my ER doc sibling pointed out to me years ago that gunshot wounds are "contagious": If you're in regular contact with somebody whose been shot, it's much more likely you will be too, probably as you tried and failed to retaliate.
Another thing to note is that "broken windows" style policing (going into a neighborhood and busting people for minor and poorly defined offenses like "loitering") is largely a method of gentrifying a particular area, mostly by harassing the current residents until they leave. Michael Bloomberg in particular made a whole bunch of money as mayor by directing the NYPD to do this in neighborhoods where he owned property.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @09:08PM (2 children)
Coral Gables (the town around the University of Miami) gives continuing lessons in gentrification by B.S. policing, "burglar tools" was a favorite charge in the 80s, probably still is.
The occasional poor student on scholarship runs afoul of them, but they usually back down immediately upon presentation of a Student ID.
Make no mistake, it's about money not skin color, they may make mistakes IDing money using skin color as a shortcut/prejudice, but it's all about the money at the higher levels, and that usually transfers all the way down to the beat cops.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday December 31, @11:39AM (1 child)
I knew a guy who had been a cop before injuries took him off the force. And he was quite clear that for some of them, it absolutely is about skin color. The skin color thing also correlates so heavily with property values, the goals of racist beat cops and landlords are conveniently aligned.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 31, @02:39PM
Well, in Coral Gables, money comes packaged in all skin colors...
In Bradenton Florida in the 1970s, segregation was still basically in effect so most white people would never interact with black people and were basically terrified to do so.
In Gainesville Florida in 2007 the KKK was still sending minors out in the middle of the night to red paint hate messages on the homes of dark skin and Asians on the "white" side of town.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Mojibake Tengu on Friday December 30, @07:04PM (3 children)
You all whine for just professing. That one Tracy Harper guy is a scammer, sure.
But if such systematic activity of one person can undermine legality guarantees of the lawful processing at such mass scale, harming society, it is evident the system itself is fragile, for the first.
It's a vulnerability, stemmed from bad design or implementation (or absence) of rules and quality checking. It's just like vulnerabilities in code made by enthusiasts.
Imagine what could happen if an organized group of dedicated criminals could do to the system, if they had opportunity to lie and indoctrinate consistently for some long time...
You have a much bigger problem than it seems...
Also, if you accept detection by 'Artificial Intelligence' in any context, expect 'Artificial Prejudice' too. That's inevitable, in current post-modern non-logical AI designs based on fancy matrix multiplications only.
A friend of me, a mathematician, uses systematically 'neurotic networks' terminology instead of 'neural networks' and I agree on that wholeheartedly.
The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @07:18PM (2 children)
I would be in favor of admitting "Artificial Prejudice" into the justice system on these terms:
1) It is studied as a development exercise, 100% banned from use in the determination of guilt or innocence - incarceration or release, for a period of at least 10 years.
2) during said development period, all data on its performance is made public 1 year post trial conclusion, and the results are tracked through the entire development period vs any later findings of innocence upon appeal.
3) when introduced, for a period of at least 10 years after development has been deemed sufficiently predictive, it is offered to defendants as a "get out of jail free" option, meaning: if the AI system says you are innocent, you can walk free. It is still tracked for success rates on predictions of guilt.
4) after this minimum of 20 years of development and tracking, if the long term "false positive rate" of guilty calls by the AI is at least 50% better (lower) than trial by jury, then the algorithm is locked and prosecution may start using it as evidence in trials.
5) any further development of "improved" algorithms similarly need 10 years of tracking and to be shown quantifiably better than the existing algorithm before allowing their results to influence any determinations of guilt or innocence.
I sincerely believe that AI can do a better job than humans, given a chance like outlined above.
I also sincerely believe that hell will freeze over before the existing legal system does anything remotely similar to what is outlined above.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Touché) by Mojibake Tengu on Friday December 30, @08:39PM (1 child)
This is sincere demonism. Justice cannot be served fairly and justly by numerical statistics via tensor operators, like gambling or radioctivity.
The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 30, @09:10PM
I sincerely believe that transparent demons are preferable to the human system we have today.
If you could convince the humans to be truly transparent, that would be better, but seems less likely to actually happen.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 5, Insightful) by mcgrew on Friday December 30, @08:29PM (2 children)
I think that article writer should learn to communicate better. "Junk science"? That's like calling Alex Jones' slanders "junk truth". The proper term is "pseudo-science"; it looks scientific to the average noncompos* but there's nothing actually scientific about it.
I'd call the study of how to clean up space debris "junk science". The science of junk.
*the term was coined by Isaac Asimov in his short story Sucker Bait.
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 31, @01:44AM
> *the term was coined by Isaac Asimov in his short story Sucker Bait.
Good story, just re-read it and by the end I was convinced that I read it long ago. Since I don't have the memory of a Mnemonic, I don't remember when or where(grin). It does look like noncompos goes back before Asimov--
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=noncompos&year_start=1750&year_end=2019&corpus=15&smoothing=0 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Funny) by bzipitidoo on Saturday December 31, @03:07AM
SCOTT: Laddie, don't you think you should rephrase that?
KORAX: You're right, I should. I didn't mean to say that the Enterprise should be hauling garbage. I meant to say that it should be hauled away as garbage.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 31, @04:32AM
It always amazes me that people think the cops are "good guys", there "to protect and to serve". They never bother to ask, "Who, exactly, do the cops protect, and who do they serve?"
There are dozens (hundreds?) of videos on Youtube, in which members of the bar explain that the cops are not your friends. A common bit of advice is, "Don't talk to the police." Every interaction you have with a cop may be considered to be antagonistic. The cop is ALWAYS looking for evidence to build a case with. You don't want to discuss the weather, sports, the stock market, religion, children, cars, or ANYTHING with cops, if you can possibly avoid it. The most innocent comment can set off alarms in the cop's mind, then he is going to do his best to trap you into saying something provably false - and you're had.
And, don't tell me that you're not guilty of something. We're all guilty of something or another, even if it's just a rolling stop at an empty crossroads. Once that cop has something minor on you, he'll start working you over for more serious charges.
Don't call the cops unless it's a matter of life and death. And then you might want to reconsider.
In this story, you'll be charged with a crime just for calling!
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Saturday December 31, @07:12PM (1 child)
This is the kind of crap that happens when governments latch on to the idea that they don't want their cops to be too smart. Believe that police work is best done by people not smart enough to question orders. "Orders is orders" is what they want.
(Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 01, @02:26AM
You are making a terrible error here. Intelligence does not translate to goodness, kindness, honesty, or any other virtue.
Screw Godwin, Adolph Hitler was no idiot, nor was he a fool. He was quite simply an evil SOB with a lot of charisma. I've never heard what his IQ was, but I'm willing to bet he was over 100, possibly nearing 120. No, he wasn't a genius, or a super genius, but he was a little smarter than average. A little smarts, some charisma, and knowing how to manipulate people will get you a long way in life.
Now I've gotta do a search . . .
This page says Adolph's IQ was 141 - https://www.iq-test.net/15-things-about-hitler-iq-and-his-profile-pms38.html [iq-test.net] Ditto here - https://enhancingbrain.com/was-hitler-smart-youll-be-surprised/ [enhancingbrain.com]
This page lists the IQs of the 21 top Nazi officials, ranging from 106 to 143. No idiots among them. https://history.info/on-this-day/1945-what-iq-did-the-nazi-leaders-have/ [history.info]
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.