BMW Recalls Select EVs For Not Making Enough Noise:
Electric vehicles are much quieter than your typical gas-powered car, but they're actually required by law to make noise to alert pedestrians. As a result, you'll hear a subtle "hum" or electric sound as one backs up or drives by. However, BWM just recalled select models for being too quiet.
BMW started 2023 by recalling over 16,000 EVs over a potential power loss issue, and now we're hearing the company is dealing with another problem. While it sounds odd to say, BMW recalled over 3,500 BMW i4 and iX models (2022 and 2023) for not being loud enough.
According to the NHTSA website, BMW is recalling select models of those vehicles due to faulty external artificial sound generators. Under normal conditions, the sound generator should emit a beep or humming noise when a car is in reverse or driving at low speeds. The system doesn't always work or make noise for whatever reason, and that's a safety concern.
[...] If you've ever had an EV sneak up on you while walking down the street, you know why this law exists. Some of them are so quiet it can be dangerous as we're used to hearing loud car engines. Luckily for BMW, this is an easy fix with a software update.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by driverless on Tuesday February 07, @04:21AM (23 children)
Am I the only person who thinks its insane that, now that we can make a huge dent in noise pollution, we're required to artificially reintroduce noise? This seems like the 21st century version of red flag laws where horseless carriages had to be preceded by a person on foot waving a red flag to alert people that an automobile was coming. We adapted to noisy cars, surely we can now adapt to quieter ones.
(Score: 3, Touché) by hendrikboom on Tuesday February 07, @05:04AM
No. You are not the only person.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by RS3 on Tuesday February 07, @05:16AM (12 children)
I hear you, however we now have people with their eyes and heads buried in a phone. That said, they're also listening to ear buds so they probably won't hear cars coming either, even with noisemakers on cars. (and dare I say- people who step out in front of moving cars, expecting they're able to stop in less than 1 second) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(Score: 4, Touché) by Opportunist on Tuesday February 07, @09:13AM (7 children)
Let natural selection take its course. Seriously, if you can't be bothered to survive, the world is better off without you.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday February 07, @08:54PM (5 children)
The "Darwin Awards". That's a tough one. I have some compassion. There are many cases where the person is maybe old, or somehow distracted, or for whatever reason didn't deserve to get hit. You know, human imperfection. So many situations in life where we have to take measures to compensate for human imperfection, in spite of expense, inconvenience, complexity, etc. But like the Darwin Awards, yeah, some people are so stupid... well, lets say it's their life, and if they want to take those kinds of risks, they get what they get. Some people get entertainment from it, so there's that. :o It's pretty unfair to society to increase the load and costs on emergency services, people who have to clean up the mess, healthcare, and insurance. I dunno, no simple one-size-fits-all solution; it's always going to be a compromise.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Wednesday February 08, @09:59AM (4 children)
"Deserve"?
Nature doesn't really give two fucks about what you "deserve". Some of that crap that happens to people is just pure randomness. I once was missed by a roof avalanche by half a meter. If I had walked there a split second later, that ice blob would have spiked me right through the head. I was lucky. Great. Some aren't. Not great, but also undeserved. Did I deserve that luck? I frankly don't know.
Karma doesn't exist. Neither does cosmic justice. Things sometimes just happen.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday February 08, @06:34PM (3 children)
Then why bother with safety or precautions?
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Thursday February 09, @11:12PM (2 children)
Self interest, I assume. I take care that I don't get hurt as well as I can, and frankly, I'd assume that everyone else should too. I wouldn't put the burden of keeping me alive on others, though. At least unless I pay for it.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday February 10, @04:56AM (1 child)
I generally agree with your posts. As I've already posted, I'm all about me taking care of me. Not sure if I should say it, but it's probably mostly about me not trusting other people to care as much about my safety as I do. Which seems like it should be a fairly obvious concept, but watching people and hearing all the arguments and lawsuits, I'm not sure what some people believe, but many sure express much anger about wanting everyone else to be in charge of their safety.
All I'm saying here is I'm not sure. You're more on the maybe libertarian / survival of the fittest side of things. Again, I'm not sure what's right. I don't know anything about you, but maybe someday someone you're close to (if anyone, I don't know) gets hurt in a situation where some precautions might have prevented the harm (or death) maybe you'll think differently about it philosophically. Obviously these things have been discussed and debated since the beginnings of formation of societies, and as advanced as we think we are, there's still and probably always will be a wide range of views and opinions.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Friday February 10, @11:56AM
I don't know if that's libertarian, I'd consider it more socialist that I want people to have the same opportunities in life, but what they make out of those opportunities should be dependent on them. The whole "teaching a man how to fish" thing.
In the end, I think you should have control over your life, and that entails that you also have to take responsibility for your decisions. If you decide to walk across the street with your nose buried in a cellphone, and you end up in an accident because of that, you have yourself to blame. I can of course see the need of provisions for those that are unable to take care of themselves, but I have zero tolerance for those who are too lazy to do so.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday February 09, @04:20AM
I can see where you're coming from, but what of blind people in a noisy city?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday February 07, @03:55PM (3 children)
>If you've ever had an EV sneak up on you while walking down the street
you must live in a noisy environment. Our neighbors would drive their Priuses in e-only mode through the neighborhood, you'd hear the tires, you'd hear the whine of the inverter / motors, you'd have to be deaf not to.
But, I suppose when they are 6+dB quieter than background, then sure, gotta add more noise just so you can hear them too. Maybe they should also run yellow strobe beacons, for safety? Sight, sound, perhaps add some smell-o-vision while we're at it. I'd rather not taste or touch the passing traffic, thank you.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 4, Informative) by RS3 on Tuesday February 07, @05:31PM (2 children)
Earbuds aside, WHO says currently 20% of the world's population have hearing deficit. [who.int]
An aside- as a sometimes audio engineer, "hearing loss" or "hearing deficit" is a very wide-ranging definition. It could be loss of high frequencies, or overall loss, or tinnitus, or something else, or combination. But the point is some degree of hearing loss that interferes with some important aspects of living life.
And the future looks grim, as again, WHO predicts worsening numbers. [who.int]
Due to using my hearing as an active instrument, and the mental fatigue it can cause, I usually wear some form of earplugs in noisy environments, including busy streets. I certainly can still hear, but the subtlety of that Prius or other motor-only small car would probably go unnoticed until it was very close.
My thinking is that people need to somehow be encouraged to look around them, much more, rather than less and less. I've always been very keen on and attentive to my own personal safety. There seems to be a large contingent who have the attitude that their safety is everyone else's responsibility. I surely admit there's some degree of responsibility on both, but in no way do I ever step out in front of a moving vehicle, assuming their brakes are excellent, that it's a lightweight vehicle, stops quickly, the driver is focused on me and nothing else (ahem!), and that physics gets a pass.
Years ago I did an Outward Bound [outwardbound.org] experience and one of the many things they teach you (impress into you) is personal safety. It involves situational awareness. 'nuff said there.
All that said, how about some kind of air puffer? Instead of a horn or some other kind of noisemaker, maybe something that makes strong puffs of air? Hmmm, won't work in bad weather. I haven't done it but I've always wanted to add at least a 2nd quieter horn that you could use for pedestrians and such. But far too many people interpret a horn sound as an affront / attack, which is unfortunate.
Years ago I visited a shore town with a boardwalk. There was a tram (passenger train) that ran along in a designated lane. It had a loud annoying speaker that constantly played "watch the tram car please", meaning, get the f out of the way. I gotta wonder how many people got hurt or killed, and if they even still have that tram...
Maybe some kind of vision system that would see pedestrians, if they're not hidden behind hills, other cars and trucks, etc., and make an audible warning when the system can predict a potential collision?
I dunno, maybe Opportunist is right, it's a Darwin Awards kind of thing- gene pool self-cleaning... I have compassion, especially for older, partially-disabled, medical problems / medications, whatever, but at some point I blame legislators for ignoring physics and blaming a driver for not somehow anticipating the future.
In my area are some public mostly paved walking / running / biking trails. There are road crossings. There are STOP signs for the people on the trail, and obstacles to try to get people to at least slow down. There are places where the topography (steep hills, banks) is such that drivers can not possibly see the trail until you're within a couple of car lengths. Oh, and the speed limit is 45 MPH. Do you think anyone stops at the stop sign? Rarely- the trail riders just blow through. This is a major reason I have a dashcam. I do slow down, but I shouldn't have to. Govt should do a study of speeds, worst-case stopping distances, human reaction, etc. But ultimately, enforce the stop signs on the trail and maybe we'll all live better.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday February 07, @07:30PM (1 child)
Oh, I have plenty of hearing deficit, but the Prius on battery noises are both broadband (hiss of the tires) and specific frequency peak (inverter whine), no problem catching those above the background of a quiet neighborhood.
My thinking is that people driving multi-thousand pound vehicles need to somehow be encouraged to look where they are going, at the least. But, we've tried that approach for 100 years and automobile accidents still cause 12.4 deaths per 100,000, which is better than COVID (2020 saw total mortality rise from 715.2 to 828.7 deaths per 100,000 population) but still pretty sucky - right up there with suicide which clocks in around 13.7.
Almost completely off-topic: ~1.7% of all deaths are suicides, call it 1 in 60. Next time you are driving on a two lane highway, count the oncoming cars (you know, those two ton boxes of steel and glass hurtling toward you at 60+mph). Every time you get to a multiple of 60, remember: one of those oncoming drivers will eventually die by suicide. Thankfully not likely today, but...
>personal safety. It involves situational awareness. 'nuff said there.
I used to bicycle a lot, like a whole lot, and I will never understand cyclists who ride on crowded roads with their back to traffic. I mean, there are laws saying that's how you should do it, but there are also laws that say you should sign up for the draft and take a chance at being front-line infantry...
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday February 07, @08:47PM
Thank you for those numbers. I've always really liked those kinds of big-picture stats. Of course they're often misinterpreted, but it's a good starting base.
Not sure if you or others would have the stomach for it, but there are video compilations of pedestrian accidents, often resulting in death. In many cases the poor soul is in a crosswalk, but completely hidden behind other cars / trucks / busses. One lane is open, someone cruises through, and the poor person steps into view at the worst possible moment. In some cases it's determined to be suicide. That's a very sad stat. Maybe some cases are sort of passive suicide- someone so unhappy they're willing to take that risk... Maybe I should think about trying to help...
I have many bikes. Need to ride them! I'm 100% with you on people running or biking on busy roads. Running / biking- supposed to be good for health, right? Breathing exhaust / in harm's way, not so good for health. Just makes me shake my head, just can't figure it out. I almost _never_ bike on roads. There's one exception where you get to the end of one trail, bike maybe a couple hundred yards on a road (very steep, two big curves) to connect to another large trail area around a large reservoir. But that's it. Where I live there are no bike lanes, no shoulders, no sidewalks. Just very narrow roads. If I ever _had_ to bike on highways, I'm sure I'd wear bright clothes, reflective vest, blinky lights- but not like some that are way too blinky for me when driving cars at night. IE, a change in brightness, but not the full and instant on and off of an LED. Sometimes they mess with my attention, focus, and depth perception.
Oh, one thing I'd like to see legislated, or something in the rules: pedestrians must wear reflective straps around their ankles at night. Very early darkness in winter, people wearing dark winter clothes, far too often walking on the _wrong_ side of the road (not facing traffic, but with traffic) and you don't see them until you're right on top of them- and that's only if oncoming way overly bright headlights aren't blinding you. Sigh. Again, why I won't drive without a dashcam.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by deimios on Tuesday February 07, @06:32AM (1 child)
It might be strange for Americans but here in Europe there are tight corners and sidewalks in most parts of cities.
So there are times where you have to traverse a small road with 0 visibility because the small sideroad is intersecting the sidewalk but since it's between buildings you need to step onto the road to check if a car is coming on said road.
Add to that the fact that in Saxon architecture the main gate is the only thing that contacts the street with no transparency and you can be suddenly hit by a car that is coming out of the garage.
Also the pedestrian population is larger since distances are smaller, thus increasing the likelihood for accidents.
Overall there are plenty of situations where visual identification of incoming traffic is impossible, thus the need for audio warnings.
On the other hand I see your point and I would like if they'd adopt white noise as the default sound. Since white noise is very noticeable upclose but doesn't travel far. I think I've seen a video about British construction sites using white noise as a reverse indicator for construction vehicles.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07, @12:48PM
To be fair, what you describe are extreme cases even for Europe. I am not sure how you deal with these situations but I would never enter a street without a visual cue. Sometimes, indeed, the peek around the corner is necessary. Also, awareness of European driver seems to be much better with respect to pedestrians and bicyclers as compared to the US. There, I almost got hit by a car not at all heeding the sidewalk that it was crossing into a drive-way. My guess is that it was totally unexpected to find a bicycle on the sidewalk in the midday heat.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07, @08:04AM (4 children)
How to even respond to such short sighted, selfish comment? You want to not have any sound even though it's basically people's lives at stake here? You can't blame it all on drivers if pedestrians walk under a car when they can't hear what the vehicle is doing. There are realities in what drivers can see from the cars, what pedestrians do while walking etc. And there are realities why people need cars.
E-cars are already quieter and you can not live in a highway intersection, if the noise bothers you so much.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07, @08:26AM
We're hunting wabbits.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Opportunist on Tuesday February 07, @09:15AM (2 children)
Have you ever entertained the idea of looking where you're walking? Take your eyes off that phone for a second and at least pretend that it's not everyone else's job to walk around you.
Next time you walk into a sign because you can't be assed to look where you're walking, you're blaming the town for putting it there, I get it?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07, @01:11PM
Well, you are beating a strawman. There are also small children, the pedestrian in a hurry, or another traffic participant having to make a quick decision.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday February 07, @04:04PM
Around here, they're using "distracted walking" as one justification (of many) to put high visibility bump strips at the edge of crosswalks.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2, Touché) by ptman on Tuesday February 07, @09:17AM
Indeed. Lower the speed instead
(Score: 5, Insightful) by pTamok on Tuesday February 07, @10:01AM
No, you are not the only person, unfortunately.
There are people who can't see cars coming, so unless you are proposing that all blind and partially sighted people (e.g. old people with macular degeneration) are always accompanied when near roads, then you have a problem. Surprisingly enough, there's also a strong correlation between age and hearing deficits, so a reasonable volume is required. In the good old days of only ICE automobiles on the road, people still managed to be hit by slow-moving vehicles, which is why commercial vehicles above a certain size have mandatory reversing noises in many jurisdictions.
What you might not realise is that the mandated sound on EVs is for when it is running below a certain speed. Above that speed, tyre noise is sufficient. EVs are dangerously quiet when slow.
We could go for the really good old days, and mandate the sound of a trotting horse.
Technology is about making life easier for people, and enabling independence for longer for people with disabilities, including the normal increasing deficiencies of ageing. One day, if you are lucky, you will be old too, and you might appreciate the accommodations available to make your life easier.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 07, @06:53AM
OK, on a quiet country road with no traffic, it's unlikely that either and ICE or an EV is likely to sneak up on you, without warning. You can hear the tires humming on the pavement, or gravel crunching under the wheels. Assuming that your head isn't buried in a distracting device, that is.
But, it isn't unusual for an ICE that is new, and/or in good repair, to be lost in ambient noise. A bunch of kids (not especially rowdy or noisy) can drown out a vehicle pretty easily. Traffic from the highway can mask the sound of the car right beside you in the shopping center. Wind will mask a lot of engine noise, or flowing water.
Oh - motorcycles. I took a brand new Kawasaki for a test ride, stopped at a red light, and I swore the thing had stalled. No noise, no vibration, nothing. I hit the starter button, just to hear the starter grind, because it was already running. I bought the bike, and it stayed just as quiet for the first 30,000 miles, at which point it started to develop a nice purring sound when idling. (No, it wasn't that quiet when you cranked the throttle, LOL!)
To my knowledge, there are no minimum decibel levels mandated for ICE powered vehicles. On the contrary, knuckleheads everywhere get into trouble for exceeding noise levels - usually after drastically altering the exhaust system.
I'm waiting for someone to install an app on their EV to emulate the sound of a Mopar hemi, with cherry bombs.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Rich on Tuesday February 07, @12:34PM
I live in a rather quiet quarter of a suburb, mostly single homes around. Aside from rattling utility vehicles, there are two regular cars around which I can hear from my bedroom: An American V8 (the crossplane gives away its origins, I think it's a Mustang), either pre-noise regulations or aftermarket exhaust, and, recently, a Tesla, which sounds like a flying saucer from an old B-movie and acoustically pierces through everything. I think that "white noise" idea from a few posts above might be a good idea.
(Score: 2) by fraxinus-tree on Tuesday February 07, @08:36PM
Please, pretty please, BMW, recall a good half of your gas-powered cars first for making TOO MUCH noise.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday February 09, @04:27AM
I still want something more interesting. How about (optionally) making the car sound like George Jetson's bubble car? Maybe when you accelerate you hear Fred Flintstone's feet? Steam train? (but not as loud as the real thing please!)