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posted by janrinok on Tuesday February 14 2023, @05:45PM   Printer-friendly

The Supreme Court may overhaul how you live online:

On my Google Discover page, for example, I was seeing loads of stories about cancer and grief, which is not in line with the company's targeting policies that are supposed to prevent the system from serving content on sensitive health issues.

Imagine how dangerous it is for uncontrollable, personalized streams of upsetting content to bombard teenagers struggling with an eating disorder or tendencies toward self-harm. Or a woman who recently had a miscarriage, like the friend of one reader who wrote in after my story was published. Or, as in the Gonzalez case, young men who get recruited to join ISIS.

So while the case before the justices may seem largely theoretical, it is really fundamental to our daily lives and the role that the internet plays in society. As Farid told me, "You can say, 'Look, this isn't our problem. The internet is the internet. It reflects the world'... I reject that idea." But recommendation systems organize the internet. Could we really live without them?

Speaking of the State of the Union, Biden called out Big Tech several times, offering the clearest signal yet that there will be increased activity around tech policy—one of the few areas with potential for bipartisan agreement in the newly divided Congress.

There's a massive knowledge gap around online data privacy in the US. Most Americans don't understand the basics of online data, and what companies are doing with it, according to a new study of 2,000 Americans from the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania—even though 80% of those surveyed agree that what companies know about them from their online behaviors can harm them.

Researchers asked 17 questions to gauge what people know about online data practices. If it were a test, the majority of people would have failed: 77% of respondents got fewer than 10 questions correct.

  • Only about 30% of those surveyed know it is legal for an online store to charge people different prices depending on location.
  • More than 8 in 10 of participants incorrectly believe that the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) stops health apps (like exercise or fertility trackers) from selling data to marketers.
  • Fewer than half of Americans know that Facebook's user privacy settings allow users to control how their own personal information is shared with advertisers.

The TL;DR: Even if US regulators increased requirements for tech companies to get explicit consent from users for data sharing and collection, many Americans are ill equipped to provide that consent.


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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Snotnose on Tuesday February 14 2023, @05:59PM

    by Snotnose (1623) on Tuesday February 14 2023, @05:59PM (#1291748)

    By 'them' I mean the tech companies. If they can't explain how, what, and why they harvest data in a way the typical user (e.g. 3rd grade level) can understand then they can't do it. And all this harvesting is opt-in, with no provisions for "$9.99/month ($99.99/month if you don't opt-in)".

    --
    It's just a fact of life that people with brains the size of grapes have mouths the size of watermelons. -- Aunty Acid
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by krishnoid on Tuesday February 14 2023, @06:08PM

    by krishnoid (1156) on Tuesday February 14 2023, @06:08PM (#1291752)

    But not this time! Government is catching up, and making long strides quickly! Too bad they're worried about people and corporations [youtu.be] being the ones to surveil us. But they'll catch up to AI in a few years, from their slave quarters in the gallium-arsenide mines.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by shellsterdude on Tuesday February 14 2023, @07:37PM (1 child)

    by shellsterdude (11969) on Tuesday February 14 2023, @07:37PM (#1291763)

    I'm all for requiring companies to get explicit consent to share this stuff and/or denying access to their service if the user is unwilling.

    What I'm not for is this dystopian formulation of the OP where somehow government or society at large should construct theories of "harm" from information and then restrict information from groups of people. Please stop infantilizing people. Grown adults should be allowed to make their own decisions on what they are willing to put up with to use a service. A very important part of life is learning to deal with unpleasant information and general adversity without curling up into a fetal position. It is impossible to develop this ability without exposure and training. Sure, children are not fully formed mentally and are thus a special case, but even then are not parents far better suited to make appropriate decisions around exposure than government agencies?

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday February 14 2023, @08:48PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday February 14 2023, @08:48PM (#1291772) Journal

      With informed consent you should be able to communicate the exact location and temperature of your asshole to Google if you want.

      The hard part is figuring out what "informed consent" actually means.

  • (Score: 1, Touché) by GlennC on Tuesday February 14 2023, @08:37PM (1 child)

    by GlennC (3656) on Tuesday February 14 2023, @08:37PM (#1291770)

    This is merely a show put on by "Team Red" and "Team Blue" to divert attention from their continuing to divide the nation.

    We're still circling the proverbial drain, and I invite anyone to prove me wrong.

    --
    Sorry folks...the world is bigger and more varied than you want it to be. Deal with it.
    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:16AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:16AM (#1291814)

      We downed them balloons. We still got it.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Opportunist on Tuesday February 14 2023, @09:16PM

    by Opportunist (5545) on Tuesday February 14 2023, @09:16PM (#1291777)

    While at the same time not bothering the likes of Facebook and Instagram. Just wait, somehow this will eliminate any kind of freedom you still enjoy while ensuring that corporations can still assrape your privacy.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Tuesday February 14 2023, @09:33PM (5 children)

    What they say in the cryptocurrency world: "Not your keys, not your coins," the applicable paraphrase is: "Not your servers, not your data."

    If you provide/store data "in the cloud" (meaning "on someone else's servers") then that data does not belong to you. Rather, it belongs to whoever owns that storage.

    Don't want other folks accessing your data and violating your privacy? Don't give it to them.

    Which is why the Fediverse [fediverse.party] is so promising. Set up your own instance, store the data on infrastructure that you control and federate (i.e., connect with) others that you choose.

    The important part being that it is your data if it's stored on your storage.

    That doesn't address all the tracking that tech outfits do, but it's possible to minimize that as well, with ad/tracking blockers and other tools.

    Which isn't a substitute for real privacy laws that levy hefty (i.e., company-breaking) fines for violating (or just not adequately protecting) the data and privacy of those whose data is collected/stored. But it's something each of us could do to protect your data.

    As usual, the issues are more nuanced and the devil is in the details, but it's a start IMHO.

    --
    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:04AM (2 children)

      by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:04AM (#1291834) Homepage

      Question... how is the Fediverse not still on "someone else's servers" ??

      My web hosting is MY storage, under MY control, but it's still on someone else's server, and if they cared to be nefarious, they could have their way with my data.

      --
      And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Wednesday February 15 2023, @07:47AM (1 child)

        by NotSanguine (285) <{NotSanguine} {at} {SoylentNews.Org}> on Wednesday February 15 2023, @07:47AM (#1291852) Homepage Journal

        Question... how is the Fediverse not still on "someone else's servers" ??

        My web hosting is MY storage, under MY control, but it's still on someone else's server, and if they cared to be nefarious, they could have their way with my data.

        Great question!

        As I said, the devil is in the details.

        For me, my servers are on my hardware, hosted on my premises.

        That route does come with some limitations, of course.

        Given how few folks have symmetric internet links. My ISP claims my link is 600Mb/sec down, 35 Mb/sec up. A check just now shows:

        Download: 586.39 Mbit/s
        Upload: 37.24 Mbit/s

        That's a 15x faster download than upload. This is one of the primary reasons perverse incentives toward centralization exist.

        That said, for the number of people that I (or most folks) would share their content with (friends and family), that's plenty of upload bandwidth.

        If you're trying to run a business, that's a different story.

        But for most folks who just want to stay in touch with friends/family and possibly connect with folks that have similar interests, if you have symmetric bandwidth on your internet link (even 50mb/sec up and 50Mb/sec down would likely allow at least a dozen concurrent users, unless you're serving up video -- 1000Mb/sec each way would allow pretty much anyone to self host, on-premise even with lots of video).

        What's that? What if your internet link goes down? What if the computer you're running your Fediverse instance on goes south? If you're not running a business and just sharing cat/baby photos/videos and news with friends/family, it's no big deal is it?

        So let's start there. Push your local government to create municipal broadband (fiber to the premise, FTW!) and sell ISP access to it. Allowing for competition and choice for end users. Then you don't *need* a "hosting provider." They only exist because consumer internet links are chock full of nasties: asymmetric links, abusive TOS, port blocking, packet throttling and all manner of other anti-patterns and rent-seeking.

        As I said, the devil is in the details, and many of those details aren't related to the software itself, or even necessarily the hardware required (many of these platforms will run nicely on a RaspberryPi or a skinny VM/Docker container), but to the policies of ISPs and the perverse incentives created by them and the network effect.

        But those aren't insurmountable problems. And each of us who decides to get away from these big tech companies is one step in the right direction.

        --
        No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
        • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday February 15 2023, @08:27AM

          by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @08:27AM (#1291854) Homepage

          Lots of interesting points... I don't think there'll be a better solution any time soon. :(

          The downside to everyone running their own cloud is that everyone has to become a security expert...

          ...but the notion certainly appeals to my inner control freak. :)

          --
          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:36AM (1 child)

      by legont (4179) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:36AM (#1291842)

      TON - yes, the one killed by the US government - apparently survived and among other things is offering distributed crypto storage https://www.coindesk.com/business/2023/01/05/telegram-related-ton-foundation-enters-crypto-storage-market/ [coindesk.com]

      Details are here https://ton.org/whitepaper.pdf [ton.org]

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday February 15 2023, @07:57AM

        by NotSanguine (285) <{NotSanguine} {at} {SoylentNews.Org}> on Wednesday February 15 2023, @07:57AM (#1291853) Homepage Journal

        That wasn't really what I was talking about, but that's definitely a use-case for decentralization and self-hosting.

        I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, but I'm all for its existence and success.

        Like the scenario (TON) you mention, decentralization opens up whole new areas of communication, commerce and collaboration. IPFS is another decentralized file storage protocol too, just without the payment aspect. And the platforms supporting ActivityPub (the fediverse).

        Even voice/video communication can (and various platforms already do so) be decentralized.

        The opportunities of decentralization abound. And they allow you to own your data and protect your privacy.

        But all the big tech companies up and down the OSI stack hate the idea. So let's vote with our feet and go elsewhere. Come on in! The water's fine.

        --
        No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by SomeRandomGeek on Tuesday February 14 2023, @10:44PM

    by SomeRandomGeek (856) on Tuesday February 14 2023, @10:44PM (#1291793)

    It has been clear for at least a decade now that there is a lot of money to be made in internet recommendation systems.
    What has only recently become clear is that internet recommendation systems can and will completely distort people's worldview just to get them to watch a few more videos and a few more ads.
    https://cs.ucdavis.edu/news/do-youtube-recommendations-foster-political-radicalization [ucdavis.edu]
    It is a technology that is obviously in need of regulation, but it is so new that we have no idea what appropriate regulation would look like. Existing ideas about free speech and censorship don't really apply, because what we are experiencing now is so different than anything we have experienced before.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:30AM (5 children)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:30AM (#1291816)

    and what they do with the knowledge has been a scary subject for decades.

    I've had a life-altering scrape with bad data following me and plaging my working life for years before Google even existed, so I've always been very paranoid about what I expose on the internet. Thankfully it happened to me before Big Data was quite a thing, so I was prepared before corporate surveillance started.

    Today, I have many fake online personae to interact on the internet. I assiduously maintain a fake and different "life" for each of them: they all have some form of presence on forums and social media, and they appear to be doing different things over the years. My real one of course is totally absent: you can look my name up and you'll find nothing. Not a single thing.

    Here's the scary thing:

    My "avid cyclist" persona - the one I use to discuss cycling matters online - gets offered rebates for sports equipment, ads for health supplements, all kinds of nice things. On top of that, when I apply for a job with that persona every now and then, I get answers almost immediately from recruiters.

    My "disability" persona however - the one I use to discuss amputation issues online - never gets replies from job applications. Never. Coincidence? It does get a lot of ads for things like life insurance policies and orthopedic products though-

    The reality of course is that I am an active, healthy amputee. But the corporate surveillance complex doesn't know that because I keep those two aspects of myself totally separated. And the reality is, if I was strictly the second persona, I'd probably be out of a job. Or at least, I feel I'd have a harder time in life than the first one.

    THAT is why I'm paranoid online. I know for a fact that those who share their entire life online get hurt - unless their entire life happens to be 100% rosy and positive, which is never the case for anybody of course.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by MIRV888 on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:55AM (2 children)

      by MIRV888 (11376) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:55AM (#1291821)

      Unless your are using different ip's for each alt they know exactly who you are. The ads may be specific to each alt, but they're all coming from the same internet address.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday February 15 2023, @02:39AM (1 child)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday February 15 2023, @02:39AM (#1291828) Journal

        Unless your are using different ip's for each alt they know exactly who you are.

        They don't know whether it's one or more people. My bet is that Big Data probably thinks there's a family of Roscoes at that IP.

        • (Score: 2) by MIRV888 on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:10PM

          by MIRV888 (11376) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:10PM (#1291872)

          Fair enough

    • (Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:46AM (1 child)

      by legont (4179) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:46AM (#1291843)

      This is why I wanted an automated solution. I wanted a tool - an AI perhaps - that would keep my online personalities active and per spec. See, one can't hide because head hunter tools would reject a silent one even faster than other undesirables. I want politically correct hard working blah blah one tailor made for me. I don't want to keep myself up to date to current sexual spectrum, for example, but I do want to be liked by my bosses be them whatever letter they currently are.
      Meantime I could enjoy myself under my preferred fake. It's, off course, too late for me.

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 15 2023, @08:42PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday February 15 2023, @08:42PM (#1291938) Journal
        As a special case, the number one characteristic of a successful expert in a newspaper article is that they return phone calls, emails, etc, having a quotable opinion on the drop of a journalist's hat. Link in Chatcrapt to provide those ready quotes and you too could be a renown expert in any field without having to get out of bed.
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by MIRV888 on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:48AM (5 children)

    by MIRV888 (11376) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:48AM (#1291819)

    My personal favorite is being hit with ads for things I have only spoken about. Things that are completely unrelated to any searches I have ever made. I do not use Alexa or Siri.
    My second favorite is ads for mistaken interpretations of searches. I had searched weaving trying to find a large set of spools for my daughter who is a seamstress as a hobby (10+ years cosplay).
    I have been getting ads for African American hair extensions for over a year now.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Reziac on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:10AM (2 children)

      by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:10AM (#1291836) Homepage

      I never get any of that, but my HOSTS file has blocked just about the entire advertising universe for over 20 years, and what it doesn't get, NoScript does. And I block 3rd party cookies, which is the big way ads follow you around. (I don't sync devices, and don't use Google/GMail for anything real, but otherwise have not taken special care to "hide my tracks".)

      https://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm [mvps.org]

      --
      And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
      • (Score: 2) by MIRV888 on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:12PM (1 child)

        by MIRV888 (11376) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @01:12PM (#1291873)

        Noscript is definitely a must. I hadn't considered just dumping the blacklist into the hosts file. Good call

        • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday February 15 2023, @05:07PM

          by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @05:07PM (#1291903) Homepage

          The MVPS hosts file is pretty good as it is. I've only added a few things, and mostly for servers that are so slow they hang the whole page (I'm lookin' at you, Gravatar).

          I see there's finally a NoScript for Chrome, but apparently rather buggy compared to the FF/SM version (which has never given me any grief). It's really amazing how much nicer the internet is with 90% of the javascript blocked.

          --
          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:35AM (1 child)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:35AM (#1291841) Journal

      I have been getting ads for African American hair extensions for over a year now.

      Somehow - Amazon has me tagged for hair extensions. Not necessarily African American, but hair extensions, yes. I don't remember doing a search for weaving, or braiding, or hairstyles, or anything like that.

      --
      “I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
      • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday February 15 2023, @08:32AM

        by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @08:32AM (#1291856) Homepage

        It's a cure for baldness that got out of hand. :)

        --
        And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
  • (Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:31AM (3 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday February 15 2023, @03:31AM (#1291840) Journal

    On my Google Discover page

    Enough. You're obviously doing internet wrong. Recently got a nice shiny new smartphone. One of the first things I discovered, was how to turn off that damned discover page!

    Does no one understand that sort of thing helps to box you into your own personal echo chamber? It's just as bad as Facebook or Twitter.

    --
    “I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
    • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday February 15 2023, @08:39AM (2 children)

      by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @08:39AM (#1291857) Homepage

      I'd never heard of "Google Discover" but it sounds horrible.
      Looked it up. It IS horrible.
      Yeah, disable would be my first move too.

      Seems to me its real function is to enable addiction, to enhance Google's advertising experience.

      --
      And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
      • (Score: 3, Funny) by kazzie on Thursday February 16 2023, @07:29AM (1 child)

        by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Thursday February 16 2023, @07:29AM (#1291991)

        So your process was:

        1. Google Google Discover
        2. Discover Google Discover
        3. ???
        4. Disable Google Discover!

        (The ??? might be replaced with retching or expletives...)

        • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday February 16 2023, @08:20AM

          by Reziac (2489) on Thursday February 16 2023, @08:20AM (#1291993) Homepage

          LOL, yes, except lacking an Android phone, I short-circuted at Step 3, and received no Profit.

          --
          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
  • (Score: 2) by bradley13 on Wednesday February 15 2023, @02:41PM

    by bradley13 (3053) on Wednesday February 15 2023, @02:41PM (#1291880) Homepage Journal

    The goal of the GDPR - which it doesn't yet achieve - is to make data harvesting fundamentally "opt in". So far, it is a good start, but it needs to be enforced more vigorously.

    The problem in the US is that you don't even have that much. Your data can be collected without your knowledge or permission, and used for whatever purposes anyone wants.

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
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