I just bought my second Haas CNC mill. I use them primarily to make parts for implantable medical devices, but they could just as easily make parts for small arms, guided missiles, or aircraft. Most big names in CNC machine tools are Eastern; Japanese, Taiwanese, or Chinese, with a few European. Haas, the biggest and most well known Western manufacturer of CNC machine tools, stands accused of continuing to supply Russian companies involved in military manufacturing, long after the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian war.
Documents filed with the U.S. Treasury and Department of Commerce indicate that RATEP is one of many Russian enterprises that Haas Automation has serviced with direct shipments of goods in that period.
Per the aforementioned PBS Newshour report, the American company allegedly approved as many as 18 shipments to Russia between March and October of 2022 to the tune of $2.8 million.
(Score: 4, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Monday March 20, @05:10PM
>I use them primarily to make parts for implantable medical devices, but they could just as easily make parts for small arms, guided missiles, or aircraft.
I applied for a job at a shop in Melbourne, Florida which did development work on proportional control pneumatic solenoid valves - originally developed for the John Deere company for use in tractors and agricultural tools, this same machine shop was primarily supported by a contract with the Army, using the same equipment to make artillery shell training rounds. They were running two shifts with overflow parking out into the street making the shells at a profit for the Army, then they were trying to build a business around the proportional valve IP with those profits. That kind of story is repeated all over Melbourne, and all around the country.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Hartree on Monday March 20, @05:37PM (11 children)
In the machining world, a CNC mill is a bit like a generic data center server is in the IT world. They're available awfully easily if you need one, and if you're an illicit buyer, you can launder them through a front company.
More advanced systems are fewer in number and cost large amounts of money, so they are easier to track. This is similar to why the sanctions focus on things like EUV systems from ASML rather than more generic process equipment in the semiconductor version of this.
i don't know the specifics of this case but given that I can pick up a used quite workable CNC mill for a few thousand in cash with few questions asked, I'd be very surprised if you could plug up the supply of basic ones.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday March 20, @06:09PM (6 children)
Thinking we can stop US made machine tools from finding their way to assisting enemy war efforts is _almost_ as misguided as the old cryptography "export controls" efforts. Particularly if you're just talking about the designs of CNC equipment and not just the physical devices.
We might try to crank up trade barriers at US customs, but attempting to stop flow through 3rd countries would be a huge impediment to legitimate trade for very little desired effect (unless the desired effect _is_ to throw up trade barriers with all those 3rd parties as well, not that I want that, but some people do...)
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mhajicek on Monday March 20, @06:48PM (5 children)
I agree, but don't you think it would be reasonable to ban direct sales to military manufacturing companies, to at least make them work for it, and perhaps have to settle for old, half worn out, half obsolete machines?
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 20, @09:28PM
Not when those companies finance opposition candidates/parties in response to unfavorable legislation.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday March 20, @10:24PM (3 children)
The thing that shocked me is that Russia is letting Ukrainian grain exports continue through the Black Sea. I mean, sure, Russia wants to preserve grain production for their control later, but it was still a surprise to hear that.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday March 21, @12:58AM (2 children)
They would gain serious opposition throughout the world by alienating a bunch of developing world countries who need that food. And Ukraine won't gain much from selling grain.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 21, @01:49AM (1 child)
>They would gain serious opposition throughout the world by alienating a bunch of developing world countries who need that food. And Ukraine won't gain much from selling grain.
Which is obviously why they do it, but... what kind of world is "sorta o.k." with invasions, bombings, killings, mass destruction of cities, etc. but would get upset if they stole the grain instead of letting it be sold to support the Ukranian cause?
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 21, @03:29AM
(Score: 2) by sjames on Monday March 20, @08:15PM (2 children)
Not to mention that DIY CNC mills are getting better every year. At this point, for open maker type solutions the CAM software is a bigger hurdle than the hardware. Even that is starting to crack.
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Tuesday March 21, @06:05PM (1 child)
Has anything open source popped up in the last couple of years for generating 4 or 5 axis toolpaths? The last time I looked there were only commercial solutions and they were painfully expensive.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday March 21, @09:53PM
Nothing yet, at lest not ready for prime time.
Of course, Russia will just pirate what they want/need.
(Score: 2) by richtopia on Tuesday March 21, @03:06PM
The article doesn't specify what is export controlled. In the 80's Toshiba got in trouble for exporting 9 axis machines capable of milling precise propellers for submarines to the USSR. That is an example where the technology is bleeding edge and the price tag is large enough that only specific actors would be in the market for such a tool.
To extend your IT example, trying to export control any x86 computer is a lost cause. But putting controls on NVIDIA's A100 is possible and has received press thanks to being export controlled to the PRC.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 20, @06:02PM
Proof we're in a time machine that's stuck on a loop. https://youtu.be/qM6wLF5fAds?t=120 [youtu.be]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 20, @06:11PM (2 children)
Haas Automation is a California company. California is anti-American, wishes to secede, does what it wants regardless of Washington DC, often and intentionally in opposition to the USA, so it all fits.
They're probably supplying Chinese tech and military too.
USA: Unites States of America, and California
(Score: 3, Informative) by ElizabethGreene on Monday March 20, @07:54PM (1 child)
That's taking it a bit far. Haas could have made a lot more money from reduced costs and access to larger markets if they's offshored their operations. They didn't, and that's worth something. Screwing up sanction enforcement is not, by itself, enough to make them un-American.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 20, @09:13PM
I respectfully and strongly disagree with your attitude of complacency. "Screwing up sanction enforcement..." is called negligence. It shows an unpatriotic, bordering on traitorous anti-America attitude. This isn't oops, we sent them some G.I. Joe toys. This is very powerful war machine power boosters. It needs to be treated as critically as Pu-239.
(Score: 3, Funny) by ElizabethGreene on Monday March 20, @07:42PM (2 children)
Given the price of HAAS kit, $2.8 million is probably a pack of replacement screws, a user manual, or a software update. :)
I'm joking of course, a well-fitted VF1 or VF2 is *only* ~110k USD. The big 5-axis jobbies can crack $500k.
(Santa, if you're listening, I'd be ecstatic with even a little mini-mill. My little sherline is threatening to complain to the Hague if I continue abusing it so far beyond its design limits.)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aafcac on Monday March 20, @08:06PM
Industrial scale gear is expensive. It's large, needs to work reliably and is sold in relatively small quantities. It's hard to make a profit on small quantities without large per unit margins.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Tuesday March 21, @03:47AM
I'm tempted to grab one of these:
https://www.langmuirsystems.com/mr1 [langmuirsystems.com]
No toolchanger, but pretty heavy duty for a hobby mill. My Haas machines are CM-1's, with a 50,000rpm 20 taper, so they can't do heavy cutting. An MR-1 would handle fixture making and the occasional heavier one-off job.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 20, @09:20PM
Playing both sides to make a quick buck is perfectly normal. This is just another day at the office. Nothing to see here
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21, @06:46AM
And thus also indirectly supporting the US war machine too?
That's what the US Gov wants right? I get the impression they want a long drawn out "Afghanistan"-style war in Europe to weaken Europe and Russia. And to have more excuses to throw more money at the US military-industrial complex.