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posted by hubie on Thursday April 06 2023, @03:59AM   Printer-friendly
from the scoot! dept.

89% of citizens want them gone – at least among the 7.46% who showed up to vote:

Citizens of Paris voted on Sunday to ban e-scooters from the City of Love, and Mayor Anne Hidalgo responded by promising that the fleets of rechargeable rentables would be gone come September.

The outcome was overwhelming, with 89 percent of votes cast in favor of the ban, though only 103,084 of Paris's 1,382,322 registered voters participated – around 7.5 percent. In a summary of the vote, the Parisian government noted that the final decision on the ban fell to city officials, who didn't appear to plan on countermanding the non-binding outcome.

[...] Only three companies are currently authorized to operate electric scooter fleets in Paris – Lime, Dott and Tier – which were granted three-year contracts in 2020 after Parisians voiced their dissatisfaction with a 2018 rollout in the city. Per Paris's government, the public domain occupancy agreements the three operators have all end on August 31, and it seems Hidalgo doesn't plan to renew them.

Lime and Tier both told The Register they would be ceasing operations in Paris come September 1, though Tier did note its shared e-bike service would still be available in the city.

Both companies expressed disappointment at the outcome, but pointed to the fact that the low voter turnout meant the results weren't representative of the city's entire population. "With approximately 93 percent of citizens not going to the polls, a large majority of Parisians have shown that e-scooters are not an issue," a Tier spokesperson said.

"We acknowledge the result of this unprecedented referendum, which was heavily impacted by very restrictive voting methods. This led to an extremely low turnout, heavily skewed towards older age groups, which has widened the gap between pros and cons," said a spokesperson for Lime.

Lime's response came from a third-party PR firm who said the statement represented a position "shared by Dott, Lime and Tier and not Lime speaking for the industry."


Original Submission

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Paris Votes to Triple Parking Fees for SUVs 34 comments

The majority residents of Paris have voted in favor of heavy parking fees for suburban utility vehicles over 1.6 tons or more. These new fees rise to €18 an hour in the city center, with lower rates further out. The goals are to improve air quality, road safety, and provide for better commuting by bicycle.

Starting September 1st, gas or hybrid SUVs, and other larger vehicles weighing over 1.6 tonnes (1.76 tons), will be charged €18 (around $19.40) per hour to park in the center of Paris, and €12 (around $12.90) per hour in the rest of the city. The new pricing also applies to electric vehicles weighing over two tonnes (2.20 tons). Exemptions are in place for taxis and city residents, which means those traveling into Paris from outside the city will be most impacted. According to one of the posters for the referendum, only three in 10 Parisians even own a personal vehicle.

[...] Under Hidalgo, a Socialist, the streets of Paris have been transformed with 84 kilometers (52 miles) of cycle lanes created since 2020 and a 71% jump in bike usage between the end of the COVID-19 lockdowns and 2023, according to City Hall.

[...] SUVs have become increasingly popular in France, favored by families in particular.

The Verge: Paris votes to crack down on SUVs

Previously:
(2023) Test Bike Generators in Paris, Rotterdam, and Barcelona
(2023) Parisians Say Au Revoir to Shared E-scooters


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Snotnose on Thursday April 06 2023, @04:40AM (11 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Thursday April 06 2023, @04:40AM (#1300027)

    Asshole users are. They'd leave scooters on sidewalks, in doorways, pretty much anywhere. Not to mention riding like assholes in the streets and sidewalks. We had the same problem here in San Diego, those damned things were annoying as hell.

    Companies need to change their model so their customers, I dunno, have a feeling of ownership or something.

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    • (Score: 2, Troll) by darkfeline on Thursday April 06 2023, @05:56AM (4 children)

      by darkfeline (1030) on Thursday April 06 2023, @05:56AM (#1300029) Homepage

      Everything is a "people problem". Blaming people is just denial that the idea was never viable in the first place. If your idea doesn't work because of people, then your idea doesn't work period.

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      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 06 2023, @06:23AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 06 2023, @06:23AM (#1300032)

        If your idea doesn't work because of people, then your idea doesn't work period.

        It might work with a different bunch of people though. So "doesn't work period" is a bit too simplistic.

        For example, in some places you don't have to lock your doors (and you might even be OK with your neighbor borrowing stuff). Whereas that would be a bad idea in a different place.
        In some places people queue in a fairly orderly and civilized manner and in other places people don't. Does that mean the idea of queuing "doesn't work period"?

        In some places you can expect people to NOT be litterbugs, in other places you might as well expect them to be litterbugs.

        • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 06 2023, @12:53PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 06 2023, @12:53PM (#1300082)

          Oh yes...I was fortunate enough to have experienced childhood in rural Alabama.

          We had a set of ethics which made locks kinda useless. If someone didn't the system, first it explained that one way or the other, either follow the rules or get out of town. One warning was sufficient. Troublemakers just disappeared.

          Nobody's stuff got messed with.

          Those cartoons...Snuffy Smith...back in the 50's, well it was a pretty good example of how we handled social problems. We could sleep at night, and we could walk alone damn near anywhere, even at midnight, no one would bother us. But everyone knew there were things one knew not to do. One did not practice assholery.

          Practicing assholery would make one disappear, and we all knew it. We rarely encountered assholes. Someone would fix the problem. And the rest of us knew that whatever caused all the woe to our neighbor wasn't around anymore to come after us.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday April 06 2023, @11:18PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 06 2023, @11:18PM (#1300205) Journal

          For example, in some places you don't have to lock your doors (and you might even be OK with your neighbor borrowing stuff). Whereas that would be a bad idea in a different place. In some places people queue in a fairly orderly and civilized manner and in other places people don't. Does that mean the idea of queuing "doesn't work period"?

          You don't speak just of people here! Two things are missing: cultural infrastructure and environment. Consider your above situation. In a place where everyone knows you, stealing stuff from unlocked houses will blow back on you fast and there would be harsh cultural punishments for stealing. In a place where you can move a few miles and disappear, there's far less blowback from theft. And if you're hanging out with a group that steals a lot, then there's no cultural backlash to stealing outside the group.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday April 06 2023, @08:58AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 06 2023, @08:58AM (#1300053) Journal
        Or it might suddenly work a lot better when you get fined for littering per misplaced scooter. Someone is renting them out. That someone probably would change their ways, if they're getting fined per violation.

        Remember I don't oppose all regulation, only stuff that causes harm. Banning scooters causes a lot more harm than fining violators.
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by coolgopher on Thursday April 06 2023, @06:54AM (1 child)

      by coolgopher (1157) on Thursday April 06 2023, @06:54AM (#1300033)

      Similar problem here in Melbourne down under. That plus riders with no insurance because Lime & co refuse to cover incidents resulting from the rider doing something unlawful. Which of course end up with innocents getting the short end of the stick [theage.com.au].

      • (Score: 2) by GloomMower on Thursday April 06 2023, @02:24PM

        by GloomMower (17961) on Thursday April 06 2023, @02:24PM (#1300092)

        According to the article, they changed their insurance to cover such things now, not that it helps the people who got hurt before the change.

        I wonder what other recourse there is, sue the rider and/or lime directly?

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Opportunist on Thursday April 06 2023, @09:34AM

      by Opportunist (5545) on Thursday April 06 2023, @09:34AM (#1300065)

      I wonder if we're the only ones who found a solution.

      There's a "parking space" for them every 200 meters or so across town. At least it feels like this, you pretty much find one at almost every tram and bus station. You enter your phone number, get a pin code that unlocks one of the scooters and then you can use it. That scooter is your responsibility now for the time you use it. Don't return it, pay a fine. Trash it, pay a fine.

      It might come as no surprise that this works actually pretty well.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 06 2023, @02:44PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 06 2023, @02:44PM (#1300097)

      Docked e-bikes make sense but require more investment. Dockless scooters are silly.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by richtopia on Thursday April 06 2023, @04:18PM

      by richtopia (3160) on Thursday April 06 2023, @04:18PM (#1300105) Homepage Journal

      Also asshole non-users. While I was in France in 2018 I was walking along the promenade in Lyon I saw multiple scooters get hurdled into the river. Apparently the BKM for silencing the beeping cries for help of the scooters is to put them into the drink.

      The whole system appears flawed to me. I used to appreciate the concept of ride share bikes, however the concept of littering the streets with them breaks the system. Maybe there is a better model, but I think Paris' ban is a very reasonable approach.

    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday April 06 2023, @05:55PM

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 06 2023, @05:55PM (#1300133)

      They'd leave scooters on sidewalks, in doorways, pretty much anywhere.

      That's been a problem where I am as well. We had a few incidents of those parked scooters being violently hucked off the sidewalks they were blocking and... ya know... after that particular problem has improved some. I am, of course, speaking strictly anecdotally.

      Not to mention riding like assholes in the streets and sidewalks.

      Again, speaking anecdotally, we had exactly this issue when the scooters started showing up. But in the last year or so that seems to have died down. There are still assholes but a lot fewer of them. I think some societal cues do have an effect on improving the safety of these things. A comprehensive effect? No.

      This does make me curious about something: In the area of town I'm talking about we're starting to see ground-based delivery drones droiding about slowly on public sidewalks. I dunno if there are enough of these to start becoming a general obstacle for scooters around here, yet...., but it is easy for me to picture an abundance of those things pushing scooters to alternative courses.

      Companies need to change their model so their customers, I dunno, have a feeling of ownership or something.

      During the lockdown several of our neighbors were charging these scooters ... we think they were actually getting paid for it. I actually wondered if the people throwing the scooters off the sidewalks motivated those trying to make money from charging them to start placing them out of the way. Think that'd be a start?

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  • (Score: 2) by Frosty Piss on Thursday April 06 2023, @06:59PM (2 children)

    by Frosty Piss (4971) on Thursday April 06 2023, @06:59PM (#1300146)

    Half a dozen or so that collected in the doorway of my business were brought inside the shop and disassembled with a blowtorch and returned to the street to be collected.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 06 2023, @08:27PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 06 2023, @08:27PM (#1300164)

      Was "killing" those scooters easier than "relocating" them?

      Here in the burbs, when we have a ground hog problem (burrowing, destructive rodent) I use a live trap, catch and release far out in the surrounding country. Maybe those scooters would have found a good home as a toy for farm kids, somewhere outside your city?

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