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posted by janrinok on Thursday May 11, @03:43PM   Printer-friendly

Researchers ruled out overexuberant antibodies in an autoimmune response:

The mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines have proven remarkably safe and effective against the deadly pandemic. But, like all medical interventions, they have some risks. One is that a very small number of vaccinated people develop inflammation of and around their heart—conditions called myocarditis, pericarditis, or the combination of the two, myopericarditis. These side effects mostly strike males in their teens and early 20s, most often after a second vaccine dose. Luckily, the conditions are usually mild and resolve on their own.

With the rarity and mildness of these conditions, studies have concluded, and experts agree that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks—male teens and young adults should get vaccinated. In fact, they're significantly more likely to develop myocarditis or pericarditis from a COVID-19 infection than from a COVID-19 vaccination. According to a large 2022 study led by researchers at Harvard University and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the group at highest risk of myocarditis and pericarditis after vaccination—males ages 12 to 17—saw 35.9 cases per 100,000 (0.0359 percent) after a second vaccine dose, while the rate was nearly double after a COVID-19 infection in the same age group, with 64.9 cases per 100,000 (0.0649 percent).

Still, the conditions are a bit of a puzzle. Why do a small few get this complication after vaccination? Why does it seem to solely affect the heart? How does the damage occur? And what does it all mean for the many other mRNA-based vaccines now being developed?

A new study in Science Immunology provides some fresh insight. The study, led by researchers at Yale University, took a deep dive into the immune responses among 23 people—mostly males and ranging in age from 13 to 21—who developed myocarditis and/or pericarditis after vaccination.

Since the rare phenomenon was first noted, immunologists and other experts have hypothesized that the vaccine could be spurring several aberrant immune responses that would explain the inflamed hearts, such as an autoimmune response or an allergic reaction. And the new study rules some of them out.

The researchers used blood samples from a subset of the patients to look at immune responses and compare them with those from matched vaccinated controls. They first compared antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 and found no evidence of "overexuberant" or enhanced antibody responses against the virus that might explain the myocarditis and pericarditis. The anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibody responses in the two groups were comparable, with the patients with the heart condition having comparable, if not slightly blunted, antibody responses.

The researchers next screened for auto-antibodies, that is, antibodies spurred by the vaccine that are misdirected against a person's body rather than the virus. They used an established screening tool to scan for autoantibodies against over 6,000 human proteins and molecules. The researchers focused on over 500 of the probes that relate to cardiac tissue. They found no relative increase in the number of autoantibodies compared with the controls, suggesting that an autoimmune response was unlikely.

The researchers then took a broad, unbiased approach to compare the profiles of immune responses among the patients and controls. They found distinct immune signatures between the two groups, with patients showing elevated levels of immune signaling chemicals (cytokines) that are linked to acute, systemic inflammation. And those cytokines were accompanied by corresponding elevations in inflammatory cellular responses, particularly cytotoxic T cells. Further, the gene expression profiles of those T cells showed the potential to cause heart tissue damage.

Taken together, the researchers concluded that the most likely explanation is that in these rare cases of myocarditis and pericarditis, the vaccine is spurring a generalized, vigorous inflammatory response that leads to heart tissue inflammation and damage.

[...] For now, the finding that an inflammatory response is behind the cases can help guide treatment and prevention. A Canadian study from last year suggested that extending the interval between mRNA vaccine doses can reduce the chances of myocarditis and pericarditis in young males. But, the new study may bring some relief when it does occur—self-resolving inflammation is less concerning than a difficult-to-treat autoimmune response.

Journal Reference:
Cytokinopathy with aberrant cytotoxic lymphocytes and profibrotic myeloid response in SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine–associated myocarditis, (DOI: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.adh3455)


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  • (Score: 3, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 11, @03:50PM (47 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @03:50PM (#1305871) Homepage Journal

    Government all but mandated that you be injected with an experimental vaccine, unlike any ever pushed on the public before. It's going to be decades before everything is figured out here. For some people, the vax is a death sentence, just like any other vaccine. (Before you get all huffed up, pick any childhood vaccine, and research the side effects, they ALL kill.)

    Just like insurance companies, pushing vaccines is a matter of playing the odds. They hope to save more lives than they take. But, they will take lives. What are the warnings for the COVID shot going to look like in 100 years? Not for pregnant or nursing women, not for anyone with a heart condition, not for people who hope to procreate . . . and the list will go on.

    --
    Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Thursday May 11, @04:21PM (21 children)

      by bzipitidoo (4388) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @04:21PM (#1305874) Journal

      In an emergency, you don't worry about the unlikely. You don't have time for that. Vaccines work. They have a fantastic record. One of the best weapons of modern medicine. I will so take the very small risks of vaccination over the much, much bigger risks of severe disease. Do you really want to give up vaccines and see humanity suffer through Black Death 2.0?

      Nevertheless, no one was forced to get vaccinated. Pressured, yes, but not forced. Basically, quarantine is another option. You could give up your job and stay home and isolate rather than be vaccinated. Then you could go on welfare of some sort, if fellow anti-vaxxers haven't gutted the social safety net.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @05:20PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @05:20PM (#1305887)

        Vaccines work.

        Be sure to contact NIH and the publishers of hundreds of other similar articles and correct their dangerous lies.

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4962729/ [nih.gov]

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 11, @06:11PM (18 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @06:11PM (#1305894) Homepage Journal

        If you will re-read my post, I most certainly did not say that vaccines are a waste of time. In most cases, millions of people are spared the devastation of whichever disease, at the cost of a few hundred dead, and a few thousand sickened, with side affects varying from trivial, to life changing.

        The message that I hope to convey is, you should get your vaccinations with INFORMED CONSENT.

        Rushing a vaccine through, with little testing, and mandating that people get the shot or lose their jobs, or whatever, is so fucking wrong, I'm amazed that people put up with it. This is bizzaro world, people.

        How many other mRNA vaxxes are there in common use today?

        Why are we surprised that problems with heart disease, mental function, mood problems, fertility, and a gaggle of others are being blamed on the vax?

        I'll repeat: it's going to be decades before mankind understands what this vax cost us.

        --
        Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by mhajicek on Thursday May 11, @07:16PM (1 child)

          by mhajicek (51) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @07:16PM (#1305913)

          Every day of delay for additional testing would have meant thousands of unnecessary deaths. The risks were weighed, and decisions were made.

          --
          The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @10:47PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @10:47PM (#1305957)

            The risks were weighed, and decisions were made.

            Yeah.. Like when Cassie and Erin locked eyes from across the bar

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by mhajicek on Thursday May 11, @07:22PM (4 children)

          by mhajicek (51) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @07:22PM (#1305919)

          I should also add, did anyone have informed consent on the risks and effects of long COVID before making that decision? I got sick before not only the vaccine, but before tests were widely available, and I still haven't recovered.

          --
          The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by digitalaudiorock on Thursday May 11, @07:45PM (3 children)

            by digitalaudiorock (688) on Thursday May 11, @07:45PM (#1305926)

            This x 1000. Was just about to reply with the same. That's my big concern. I don't want to hear it about "mild symptoms" because those can be followed by those long COVID symptoms. Sorry to hear you're dealing with that...hope that gets better.

            It's called "risk management" ffs...something all the a-holes on the right love to throw out the window when it comes to COVID for some idiotic fucking reason. Don't get me started on the bullshit rants about Fauci.

            • (Score: 4, Insightful) by HiThere on Thursday May 11, @07:56PM (2 children)

              by HiThere (866) on Thursday May 11, @07:56PM (#1305929) Journal

              He did make a few mistakes and said a few things improperly. As people go, though, I'd say he did an A+ job under really difficult conditions.

              --
              Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
              • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday May 11, @11:36PM (1 child)

                by mhajicek (51) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @11:36PM (#1305964)

                I'd say B-. That screwup on mask recommendation was attrocious.

                --
                The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
                • (Score: 2) by weirsbaski on Friday May 12, @09:54AM

                  by weirsbaski (4539) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 12, @09:54AM (#1306025)

                  I'd say B-. That screwup on mask recommendation was attrocious.

                  In 2020, fears of not enough toilet paper led to stockpiling which led to a national toilet paper shortage. And that was just TOILET PAPER.

                  If it wasn't for "atrocious" mask recommendations which delayed the demand-surge, we would've had a national mask shortage, which I imagine would've been more than a little problematic (starting with hospitals).

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by krishnoid on Thursday May 11, @07:51PM (3 children)

          by krishnoid (1156) on Thursday May 11, @07:51PM (#1305927)

          I understood enough that COVID-19 causes lung scarring, but the lungs will eventually recover from that. Going out on a limb though, I suspect that oxygen and carbon dioxide can't be exchanged across alveolar scar tissue until that happens, so I'd have to hold my breath for 100 days [hopkinsmedicine.org] in the meantime? I could probably tough that out.

          You bring up a good point though. We won't know the effects of the vaccine for a decade or so. We also won't know long COVID-19's decadal effects either. The short-term effects, though ... I know two survivors who are still experiencing them intermittently., and I'd hazard a guess that we all do.

          • (Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @09:54PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @09:54PM (#1305950)

            I know two survivors who are still experiencing them intermittently., and I'd hazard a guess that we all do.

            I'll see your anecdotal evidence and raise you...uh...my anecdotal evidence.

            I know a handful of people who died within 21 days of being vaccinated.

            I know plenty of people who started suffering long-term debilitating effects within 21 days of being vaccinated. (I work in HR and deal with employee benefits at a company with ~800 employees).

            I know plenty of people who are "antivax" and never got the shot. Only two of them were sick for more than a few days. One was sick for 2 weeks, the other was sick for 3 weeks.

            The 2-week-sick person said they felt "run down" for months. This was in mid-2021. Now they say they feel fine.

            I didn't get the damn shot. Got sick with something in January of 2021 (along with the rest of my 8-person family), recovered after 3 days. Got sick again in the fall of 2022 (along with my family). Recovered in a few days.

            Keep on "believing the science" all you want. I'm happy with my decision.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday May 12, @01:15PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 12, @01:15PM (#1306060) Journal

              I didn't get the damn shot. Got sick with something in January of 2021 (along with the rest of my 8-person family), recovered after 3 days. Got sick again in the fall of 2022 (along with my family). Recovered in a few days.

              So infected twice with unknown long term consequences that you choose to ignore.

              I know plenty of people who are "antivax" and never got the shot. Only two of them were sick for more than a few days. One was sick for 2 weeks, the other was sick for 3 weeks.

              The 2-week-sick person said they felt "run down" for months. This was in mid-2021. Now they say they feel fine.

              Note that in the second sentence, this is the only long term debilitating consequences you mention anywhere.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by https on Friday May 12, @05:19PM

            by https (5248) on Friday May 12, @05:19PM (#1306133) Journal

            But we knew what the results of SARS-1 (2003) were, fifteen years later. People didn't recover from it so well [1].

            "But that was a different virus!", I hear an asshole in the back shouting. To which, STFU. the virus that caused SARS-1 is more closely related to nCoV-19 wild-type than nCoV-19 wild-type is related to n-CoV-19 Omicron.

            Funny thing about long term effects. As the pandemic continues, studies went from saying "symptoms persist for at least six months after..." to saying symptoms persist for at least twelve months after..." to saying symptoms persist for at least eighteen months after..." to saying symptoms persist for at least two years after..."

            There's a pattern there, and I know how I'm going to bet.

            [ 1 ] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(23)00061-5/fulltext [thelancet.com]

            --
            Offended and laughing about it.
        • (Score: 2) by gnuman on Thursday May 11, @09:10PM (1 child)

          by gnuman (5013) on Thursday May 11, @09:10PM (#1305947)

          How many other mRNA vaxxes are there in common use today?

          Let's see .. you could have picked any number of non-mRNA vaccines if you are scared of the mRNA one that was suppose to kill us in 6 months .. wait 9 monthss ... wait 2 years ... wait few decades. yes that one, few decades. Still here.

          Why are we surprised that problems with heart disease, mental function, mood problems, fertility, and a gaggle of others are being blamed on the vax?

          I don't know. Our daughter seems just fine. My wife was 4 months pregnant when she got the vaccine in Germany. Baby born at exactly 40 weeks and she's 1.5 years now, and just finished all of her vaccines too.

        • (Score: 2) by epitaxial on Friday May 12, @12:28AM

          by epitaxial (3165) on Friday May 12, @12:28AM (#1305975)

          This vaccine isn't new. mRNA was discovered in the 1960s and was researched heavily in the 1980s and 1990s. https://the-dna-universe.com/2021/04/15/the-history-of-mrna-applications/ [the-dna-universe.com]

          Given the amount of doses and how medicine suddenly became political, this is the mostly widely studied vaccine in history.

        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday May 12, @08:49AM

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 12, @08:49AM (#1306019) Journal

          I'll repeat: it's going to be decades before mankind understands what this vax cost us.

          But until then you are quite content to carry on believing that it will be a catastrophe and that we are all doomed? It is going to be decades before we know what the pandemic has cost us all in the terms of lives lost worldwide to COVID-19, damage to the economy, the effect of working from home on long term employment culture etc.

          You were not forced to have a vaccination - but if you don't then please stay the hell away from those who have chosen to have one. Wear a mask - not for your protection but for countless others that you could infect. Nobody cares if you have a vaccination or not - but they do care about their own health.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by janrinok on Friday May 12, @08:56AM

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 12, @08:56AM (#1306022) Journal

          Why are we surprised that problems with heart disease, mental function, mood problems, fertility, and a gaggle of others are being blamed on the vax?

          I'm surprised because all of these things existed before COVID-19 came along. But now they are all blamed on COVID. Of those that are PROVEN to be caused by the vaccine, the risks from COVID-19 in most cases were significantly higher than the risks posed by the vaccine itself. The article even states it:

          In fact, they're significantly more likely to develop myocarditis or pericarditis from a COVID-19 infection than from a COVID-19 vaccination

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Reziac on Saturday May 13, @12:49AM (1 child)

          by Reziac (2489) on Saturday May 13, @12:49AM (#1306169) Homepage

          "How many other mRNA vaxxes are there in common use today?"

          Ebola, Marberg, and in development for Zika and a few other things. The tech is by no means new.
          https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines [jhu.edu]

          Timeline:
          https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd4278/figures/1 [nature.com]

          Article reasonably understandable by the layman:
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8103517/ [nih.gov]

          The unfortunate fact is that like all other medical processes, testing only goes so far and we're going to discover the unanticipated downsides as we go. However... from what I've seen the risk of myocarditis from contracting symptomatic COVID is about double the risk of developing it due to a negative vaccine interaction.

          Even so, informed risk, dammit, not you jolly well will take it or we'll send you to the gulag.

          --
          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 13, @05:35PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 13, @05:35PM (#1306226)

            You'll cover your asshole in public or we'll send you to the gulag.

            Surprise, troll! Society actually exists! You are not a freethinking libertarian, you're an antisocial threat.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by darkfeline on Friday May 12, @12:22AM

        by darkfeline (1030) on Friday May 12, @12:22AM (#1305973) Homepage

        "Pressured, yes, but not forced."

        Ah yes, the "blackmail is such an ugly word" defense. "We didn't force you, we just threatened to destroy your life."

        --
        Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @05:16PM (9 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @05:16PM (#1305886)

      At the outset I said that sometime in the next year I'm either going to get Covid or the vaccine. Given that I was already over 50 when it started, edging in to the high risk category, I decided to take my chances with the vaccine rather than the disease. I have no regrets. Just look at the statistics.

      • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday May 11, @05:33PM (8 children)

        by acid andy (1683) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @05:33PM (#1305888) Homepage Journal

        I'm either going to get Covid or the vaccine.

        The vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting COVID. It may reduce the severity of the disease if and when you do get it. The immunity given by the vaccine also wanes significantly as the months pass and as the virus continues to mutate.

        --
        Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @06:30PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @06:30PM (#1305898)

          The immunity given by the vaccine also wanes significantly as the months pass and as the virus continues to mutate.

          Prove it.

          A 15+ year virologist I know who worked at a major US hospital research center focusing on COVID-19, got fired for discovering that once you've had COVID, you're immune forever. In fact, it stands to reason if you understand COVID-19's mechanism of action. By your posts, I'm quite sure you don't.

          He did qualify that you might come down with a significantly different possible future strain, but you'll still fight it off well.

          Ultimately there are risks either way, and people should be allowed to decide for themselves.

          It's okay to decide for yourself what your gender is, but not if you want a vaccine?

          Take the vaccines if you wish, but why the smug bossy arrogant telling others what to do?

          Live and let live.

          • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday May 11, @06:51PM (1 child)

            by acid andy (1683) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @06:51PM (#1305906) Homepage Journal

            It's okay to decide for yourself what your gender is, but not if you want a vaccine?

            Take the vaccines if you wish, but why the smug bossy arrogant telling others what to do?

            Where did I tell anyone what to do? I'm not anti-vax. I'm just extremely wary of this ubiquitous narrative that we cured COVID and the pandemic is in the past.

            got fired for discovering that once you've had COVID, you're immune forever

            To believe that I'd need to see studies that support that hypothesis and I'd be looking at how large the studies were and over how long.

            --
            Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
            • (Score: 3, Informative) by krishnoid on Thursday May 11, @07:57PM

              by krishnoid (1156) on Thursday May 11, @07:57PM (#1305930)

              Numerically, we can actually sort of tell where in the duration of the "pandemic" we are via wastewater surveillance [cdc.gov], at least in the more developed countries.

          • (Score: 5, Touché) by mhajicek on Thursday May 11, @07:19PM (1 child)

            by mhajicek (51) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @07:19PM (#1305914)

            If that were true, why do I know people who got COVID more than once?

            --
            The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
            • (Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Friday May 12, @12:57AM

              by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Friday May 12, @12:57AM (#1305982)

              It seems to follow the same pattern as common cold.

              That one's mild enough that it's ethical to infect people on purpose. If you expose someone to a genetically identical virus a year after the previous experiment, they likely get sick, and it will be shorter and less severe than the first case.

              I don't think anybody knows why some diseases are like that and others create lifetime immunity (measles, smallpox, e.g.).

              There are well documented reinfections, but they're fighting against some long term resistances. Ellebedy's team at wustl has published about anti-SARS COV2 cells in bone marrow, where the body places things it wants to keep.

        • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday May 11, @08:00PM

          by HiThere (866) on Thursday May 11, @08:00PM (#1305931) Journal

          The vaccine doesn't prevent COVID, but it reduces the probability that you will catch it in a given situation quite a lot. I think the figures I read was over 90%, but it's been several months, so I'm not sure.

          Sorry, but you're looking for perfection, and it's not present, and won't be in the near future. Yes, I'd prefer a more effective vaccine with fewer side effects, but what we've got is remarkably better than we had any reason to expect.

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @09:49PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @09:49PM (#1305949)

          The AC to which you're replying here--I guess I should have clarified that I'm going to get an *initial exposure* to either the vaccine or the virus.

          Given that the vaccine is designed to prevent the virus, and the virus is "designed" to replicate with no regard for human life, I chose the vaccine.

          Yes, immunity does wane but there is likely to be some residual protection, even for mutant strains going out years. That's what boosters are for, and boosters, to reiterate, are not designed to self-replicate with no regard for my life.

          I chose vaccines. I chose boosters. Even with the risks, they're better than the virus.

          If I thought I could prevent contact with the virus, I would not get the vaccine. That's fantasy. We can't. I've probably breathed in millions of virus particles without even knowing it.

          • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday May 11, @10:20PM

            by acid andy (1683) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @10:20PM (#1305952) Homepage Journal

            You were probably clear enough. I think I was being a bit snarky because it's not been such a great day.

            --
            Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Thursday May 11, @06:05PM (9 children)

      by sjames (2882) on Thursday May 11, @06:05PM (#1305892) Journal

      Mild self-resolving myocarditis is well short of your imagined fatalities. You know what else can cause that? COVID19!

      The really confounding part is that even if we had a magic detector that could reveal who was particularly vulnerable to the side effect of the vaccine, we might still recommend the vaccine because the same group will also be particularly vulnerable to the disease.

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @06:33PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 11, @06:33PM (#1305900)

        There already exist myriad tests for a person's reaction to a substance, such as allergen tests.

        Many people already have immunity to COVID because it's very similar to many cold viruses that have gone around. How about testing people to see if they actually need the jab?

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by sjames on Thursday May 11, @08:16PM (1 child)

          by sjames (2882) on Thursday May 11, @08:16PM (#1305935) Journal

          Allergen tests involve giving the patient some of the allergen in a reasonably safe clinical setting and seeing if they react. With epi at the ready. That also is how we give the COVID shot.

          If the person already has immunity to COVID, then the shot just gives it a reminder and provokes a smaller reaction than would be found in a non-immune recipient. The shot is cheaper and faster than the test would be.

          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Friday May 12, @02:37AM

            by Reziac (2489) on Friday May 12, @02:37AM (#1305993) Homepage

            I've seen realworld evidence that exposure to either canine coronavirus or canine corona vaccine is cross-protective.

            No one has looked at this.

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday May 11, @08:04PM (3 children)

        by HiThere (866) on Thursday May 11, @08:04PM (#1305932) Journal

        Umn... I don't think we can be sure that the same groups would be especially subject to COVID caused myocarditis. That might well be true, but I don't think the available evidence proves that. OTOH, and extrapolating a bit, the proper treatment might be "take a couple of aspirin a day for a week".

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Thursday May 11, @08:10PM (2 children)

          by sjames (2882) on Thursday May 11, @08:10PM (#1305934) Journal

          It's a pretty good bet since the vaccine's mechanism of action is to cause production of COVID proteins which the immune system then reacts to. Based on TFA, more specifically, it's the generalized inflammatory response that causes it. So not only would they be more vulnerable to COVID induced generalized inflammation, any cause of generalized inflammation would likely trigger the myocarditis.

          It's not 100% certain without further testing to prove it, but it's the way to bet.

          • (Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Friday May 12, @01:03AM (1 child)

            by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Friday May 12, @01:03AM (#1305983)

            Which invites the question, why doesn't every vaccine have the same effect? All of them trigger an immune reaction, and inflammation is part of that.

            • (Score: 2) by sjames on Friday May 12, @02:08AM

              by sjames (2882) on Friday May 12, @02:08AM (#1305990) Journal

              I wondered bout that as well. Possibilities include

              1. They do but it was only discovered due to heightened scrutiny of a new vaccine type. After all, it's a mild case self resolving.
              2. Most vaccines are given to children, perhaps it affects them differently
              3. ???
      • (Score: 2) by darkfeline on Friday May 12, @12:26AM (1 child)

        by darkfeline (1030) on Friday May 12, @12:26AM (#1305974) Homepage

        And so what? Just because people may experience worse negative consequences is not moral (or legal!) justification for forcing people to do something with lesser negative consequences. At least, outside of authoritarian regimes.

        --
        Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Friday May 12, @12:37AM

          by sjames (2882) on Friday May 12, @12:37AM (#1305977) Journal

          What part of the word 'recommend' suggested a use of force to you?

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by inertnet on Thursday May 11, @09:03PM

      by inertnet (4071) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 11, @09:03PM (#1305946) Journal

      not for people who hope to procreate

      There was a massive misinformation campaign going on at the time, aimed at scaring people away from being vaccinated, and this was one of the worst claims. After I had my shots, a friend who happened to believe all that crap, was surprised that I took them. He then said "oh, but you already have children", completely convinced that being vaccinated meant that you'd never be able to have children again. He had a lot more of those weird claims, but this was probably one of the more effective ones in scaring people off. in the mean time he got COVID at least 3 times, while I believe that he may have lost a small percentage of his brain cells each time. I don't have scientific data for that, but I'm just putting up non-scientific counterclaims against non-scientific bullshit.

    • (Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Friday May 12, @12:46AM

      by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Friday May 12, @12:46AM (#1305978)

      Not experimental. The Phase 3 results were in (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577) before the rollout.

      Not even 1.0. Check out https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/. [berthub.eu] That's something with a lot of thought behind it.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Reziac on Friday May 12, @02:34AM

      by Reziac (2489) on Friday May 12, @02:34AM (#1305992) Homepage

      There was another study a while back that found myocarditis tended to occur at the intersection of the mRNA vaccine and a herpes virus, specifically varicella zoster (chickenpox). Forget the details but the effect was basically shingles for heart tissue.

      --
      And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday May 12, @08:32AM

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 12, @08:32AM (#1306017) Journal

      In fact, they're significantly more likely to develop myocarditis or pericarditis from a COVID-19 infection than from a COVID-19 vaccination.

      Which part of that statement didn't you understand?

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday May 12, @02:12PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 12, @02:12PM (#1306082) Journal

      Four days ago I received my sixth covid shot. I asked my doctor if I should, if it was time to get one, and whether I can. She checked and said that I could.

      For some people, the vax is a death sentence, just like any other vaccine

      For some people COVID is a death sentence, just like any other deadly disease.

      pick any childhood vaccine, and research the side effects, they ALL kill.

      Peanuts kill. Lightning kills. Using too long of a bungee kills. Realizing that you forgot your parachute kills. It's all about the percentages, which you conveniently ignore to spread fear.

      pushing vaccines is a matter of playing the odds

      The odds are clearly in favor of taking vaccines. Different vaccines have different risks. And no vaccine has or probably ever will be perfect.

      Even extremely safe over the counter medications are harmful for tiny fractions of the population.

      --
      How often should I have my memory checked? I used to know but...
  • (Score: 3, Touché) by sigterm on Thursday May 11, @05:59PM

    by sigterm (849) on Thursday May 11, @05:59PM (#1305891)

    ...contradicts existing studies.

    You all know how to find sources of actual medical information, so I'll refrain from making further comments.

  • (Score: 2) by coolgopher on Friday May 12, @01:43AM (3 children)

    by coolgopher (1157) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 12, @01:43AM (#1305985)

    If I'm reading that abstract right, they're suggesting that the cause of the myo- and/or pericarditis is linked to cytokines. Since one of the major dangers with COVID-19 is the triggering of a cytokine "storm", does this not then imply that those who got myo/pericarditis as a result of the vaccine would have been extremely likely to have Really Bad(tm) effects from an actual COVID-19 infection?

    I am not a medical expert, so if anyone with expertise in this field posting here would like to elucidate, please do so :)

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Friday May 12, @08:39AM (2 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 12, @08:39AM (#1306018) Journal

      does this not then imply that those who got myo/pericarditis as a result of the vaccine would have been extremely likely to have Really Bad(tm) effects from an actual COVID-19 infection?

      Yes, it does and they acknowledge it in TFA...

      In fact, they're significantly more likely to develop myocarditis or pericarditis from a COVID-19 infection than from a COVID-19 vaccination.

      • (Score: 2) by coolgopher on Friday May 12, @02:35PM (1 child)

        by coolgopher (1157) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 12, @02:35PM (#1306088)

        No, that's just a general statement that young males are more likely to develop myo/pericarditis from a covid infection (further on it also states that it's also the case overall, from any cause). It does not say that the people who did develop myo/pericarditis from a shot would have had an extra strong response to a covid infection, which is what I was seeking information on.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 12, @12:15PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 12, @12:15PM (#1306049)

    I used to like coffee. Had about 6 cups a day. I had the vaccine and one booster. Now I can't drink coffee. A single cup will send me into tachycardia.

    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday May 12, @06:13PM

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 12, @06:13PM (#1306142) Journal

      Correlation is not causation. What evidence do you have that they are connected. I'm not saying that they aren't, just that your bare statement doesn't actually mean much one way or another.

      I know someone who had the vaccine and was dead a few days later - he was hit by a drunk driver.

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