Opinion: Most people are terrible at matching faces to photos, making polling checks unreliable:
On Thursday May 4, for the first time, members of the public voting in local council elections in England were required to bring photo ID to their polling station. Initial reports suggested that a few people were turned away because they didn't bring one of the approved forms of photo ID.
But even if they did bring the right documents, such as a driving license or passport, there's a question mark over whether the people manning polling stations could tell accurately whether the voter was the person pictured in the ID.
When you present your photo ID to be checked, the person looking at it has to decide if your face matches the picture in the document. In a lab, this is usually done with images and is called "face matching". Such studies typically present two face images side-by-side and ask people to judge whether the images show the same person or two different people.
While people perform well at this task when they are familiar with the person pictured, studies report the error rate can be as high as 35% when those pictured are unfamiliar. Even when people are asked to compare a live person standing in front of them with a photo, a recent study found they still got more than 20% of their answers wrong.
The people checking our photo ID are almost always unfamiliar with us, so we should expect that this is a difficult, error-prone task for them. And while you might think that people whose job it is to check photo ID would be better at it than the rest of us, cashiers, police officers and border control officers have all been shown to be as poor at face matching as untrained people.
The study of border control officers also showed they don't improve at the task as time goes on—there was no relationship between their performance and the number of years they had spent in the job.
This suggests that face recognition ability doesn't change with practice. While repeated exposure to variable images of one person's face can help you to recognize them, professional facial image comparison courses aimed at training face identification ability have not been shown to produce lasting improvements in performance.
There is, however, an argument for the role of natural ability in face recognition. People known as "super-recognizers" perform far better than the general population at tests of face recognition, and have been used by police forces to identify criminals.
For example, super-recognizers could be asked to look through images of wanted persons and then try to find them in CCTV footage, or match images caught on CCTV to police mugshots. Some of us are just better than others at these types of task.
But why is it so difficult for most of us to recognize an unfamiliar person across different images? We all know that we look different in different pictures—not many of us would choose to use our passport image on a dating website. And this variability in appearance is what makes unfamiliar face matching so difficult.
When we are familiar with someone, we have seen their face many times looking lots of different ways. We have been exposed to a high amount of this "within-person variability", enabling us to put together a stable representation of that familiar person in our minds.
In fact, exposure to within-person variability has been shown to be crucial for learning what a new face looks like. With unfamiliar people, we just haven't seen enough of their variability to reliably decide whether they look like the image in their photo ID.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by driverless on Sunday May 14, @11:02AM
They decided it would be a good idea to put the owners' faces on credit cards as a security measure. Evaluations by researchers found that, oh, approximately zero percent of people were caught out by this, including ones who looked nothing like the photo, e.g. young female on the photo, random old geezer using card.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 14, @12:52PM (48 children)
If nothing else, requiring a photo ID makes it much more difficult to casually cheat. You would have to forge or steal an ID, which itself is a felony (in the U.S. at least), and risk serious prison time.
It's far better than nothing (honor system), which is what the Democrats want.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 14, @02:04PM (5 children)
Since the vast majority of cases of verified voter fraud are Republicans, you'd think they'd be pushing the hardest for an "honor system." Perhaps this suggests there is little honor in the Republican party?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @02:31AM (2 children)
So the democrats should be extra motivated to implement voter ID and stricter anti-voter fraud laws since they believe it's republicans that are the ones trying to cheat.
If it's really the case that the Republicans are the ones that mostly cheat then why is it that the democrats are the ones that want to abolish all anti-voter fraud laws? At least the republicans are the ones that want to implement them despite the fact that, in your world, this would actually hurt Republicans. So the republicans are being honest enough to want to implement laws that may harm their own party. You should be pushing for these laws along with the Republicans if you really believe they would hurt republicans.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday May 15, @02:25PM
Laws designed to disenfranchise voters who lean a certain way are not actually anti voter fraud laws and should not be labelled as such.
Anyone who is not participating in voter fraud has a genuine interest in passing genuine anti voter fraud laws, regardless of their political leaning.
I would suppose real anti voter fraud laws do not discriminate against politics, but do discriminate based on various mechanisms used to cheat.
How often should I have my memory checked? I used to know but...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @03:17PM
It's not so much that they believe it, but that they can see the results of the court cases.
(Score: 2) by NateMich on Monday May 15, @05:14AM (1 child)
That's pretty funny. Do you have a link (from the DNC I assume) for that?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @10:33AM
They took a poll in the Chicago cemetery. 114% of the People interred there said that Republicans cheated more in voting.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by helel on Sunday May 14, @03:48PM (1 child)
Percentages vary on the study but African American and other minority groups consistently have twice or more the rate of lacking government ID than white adults. That is the real reason republicans like voter ID laws. Possession of government ID is also less common among young voters and poor voters, both groups republicans also wish to suppress. If this was about protecting the integrity of the vote and not voter suppression every voter would get their voter ID mailed to them, free of charge, ahead of the election. It's not like printing a face on a piece of paper and then putting it in the mail is technically difficult.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Sunday May 14, @05:16PM
Also: There were documents found in the office of the guy who led the effort to pass voter ID laws stating those exact facts as the reason why Republicans should pass those laws. And the Supreme Court justices who owe their careers to Republicans decided that no, these laws weren't an attempt at racial discrimination, no sirree, they're definitely OK, never mind the evidence to the contrary.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by turgid on Sunday May 14, @03:50PM (39 children)
In-person voter fraud was a non-issue in the UK. There were far more fraudulent postal votes. This new law was a blatantly political move by the Conservative Party (our "Republicans") to disenfranchise many younger and poorer voters (less likely to have ID documents) who usually vote Labour, Lib Dem, Green etc. (i.e. "Democrats").
The Conservatives are gradually making the UK frighteningly authoritarian [theguardian.com].
The Conservatives are embracing National Conservatism [theguardian.com]. There is a three day event in London starting tomorrow [theguardian.com].
They're not even trying to hide it.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 4, Insightful) by ElizabethGreene on Sunday May 14, @05:23PM (3 children)
(I'm asking and not trying to be belligerent. Please be gentle.)
Why would younger or poorer people be less likely to have ID documents? Where I live (acknowledging geographical, income bracket, and life experience bias) ID is required for many social service programs. Not having ID would cut me off from opportunities with higher personal impact than voting. If someone under 30 claims they don't have my first assumption is they've recently been robbed, have warrants, or have mental health issues.
The group I know of without ID is grandmas and great grandmas, older women that don't have ID because their husbands "always took care of that". If they don't have ID, it's hard and expensive to put together a 60-year-old paper trail with no seed documents. This was a blind spot for me I didn't discover until I heard my mother refer to herself as "Ms. George Hire" when dealing with utilities and bank accounts. My dad had been dead for more than a decade, and everything was still all done in his name. In her peer group (widowers) this is surprisingly common. She had ID, but a subset of this demographic doesn't.
(Score: 4, Informative) by turgid on Sunday May 14, @05:42PM
For brevity, I didn't give the whole story.
When the Conservative politicians devised they law, they apparently deliberately limited the kinds of ID documents that would be acceptable in strange ways such that older people had more options in terms of what would be accepted as valid ID. There were several forms of identification acceptable if you were a pensioner, for example, but the equivalent for younger people (travel cards) were not. The Electoral Commission [electoralcommission.org.uk] has the definitive list for all parts of the UK.
Poorer people tend not to have things like passports and driving licences, for obvious reasons. In recent years, young people have been putting off learning to drive until much later, due to the cost involved. Life has become much more expensive for them with rising rents and university fees and so on.
In the UK we do not have a national ID card, unlike some other countries. This is for reasons of personal liberty. We do get issued with a National Insurance (social security) number, and we get issued with a card, but it does not have a photograph, only a signature.
The law was rushed through, but very little effort was made by the government to publicise it properly and to tell people how to get the right ID.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday May 15, @12:35PM
Crime type stuff and priorities, in summary. In more detail:
Get into a car accident without insurance, its unclear who was there, who did it, etc.
Then there's financial-ish stuff like illegal use of food stamps/EBT cards.
If the cops randomly search someone its kind of a smoking gun to have wildly mismatched documents, but no documents at all is pretty safe.
Another common problem is motivational priority type stuff. "You need that to vote and its free and takes a half hour at the courthouse and DMV to obtain a free ID card" is too much for some people who just want to goof off and as a benefit they get to blame whitey. "You'll need those documents to fill out paperwork when you get a job" well they don't do that either.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @03:40PM
It's because replacing lost stolen ID involves more than simply going to a government office. It requires negotiating time off of work, and some groups have less, as in little to no, leverage in negotiating that - "No, get back to work or I'll find someone who will" is much more common among supermarket cashiers than the P.Eng. crowd, for example. It also requires getting there. I can't remember if it was AL or GA, a few years back, closed 75% of their DMV offices and the pattern that they chose disproportionately affected black people. For example. Note the 'less' previously. It's not necessary for a pattern to be absolute for a policy to be discriminatory.
So, in answer to your question, younger and poorer people (two "for example" axes) are less able to negotiate time offf work and to arrange reliable transportation for a four to six hour block of time to the office and back.
(Score: 2, Troll) by Nuke on Sunday May 14, @05:46PM (33 children)
It is telling that all your references are the Guardian, the SJW's paper.
Anyway, apart from the under-12s it is the oldest people in the UK who are least likely to have ID. They don't need a passport, are past driving, and pay for everything in cash.
(Score: 3, Touché) by turgid on Sunday May 14, @05:51PM
And I'm proud to tell you that I'm a woke warrior.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Touché) by turgid on Sunday May 14, @05:57PM (1 child)
Have some [sky.com] links [localgov.co.uk] to other [independent.co.uk] sources [standard.co.uk].
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Informative) by PiMuNu on Monday May 15, @07:57AM
Those sources just have a lot of fluff in them. ONS has some numbers, e.g. these ones, but I don't have time to collate the data right now.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/datasets/RM109/editions/2021/versions/1?showAll=passports_all_18a#passports_all_18a [ons.gov.uk]
(Score: 3, Touché) by helel on Sunday May 14, @08:08PM (28 children)
It is telling that you don't cite any references at all...
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @03:12AM (27 children)
Here is a message board that discusses both sides
https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/70252/do-poor-people-people-of-color-and-elderly-have-difficulty-in-obtaining-id-in [stackexchange.com]
As far as not citing references at all ... will you consider a reference you disagree with as 'far right' ... I try to look at various sources with differing perspectives but people that disregards a source because it hasn't been pre-approved by their leaders tend to be cult like.
"That's not a reliable source because it's not cult approved ... our cult doesn't allow outside sources to be referenced". One characteristic of a cult is the arbitrary rejection of sources they disagree with.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by helel on Monday May 15, @03:42AM (26 children)
Skimming over your link the discussion mostly seems to favor the view that it is indeed harder for poor people (of which a disproportionate number are minorities) to get ID's. The primary counterpoint seems to be that the factors that make it hard might not apply in any given case which is a dumb way of saying that where those factors do apply it will be harder to get ID and those factors, like not having money, simply don't apply to middle and upper class people.
Sure, some poor people can afford $100 for an ID. And they might have one. Other people that's asking them to chose between feeding their children and voting. That's one hell of a poll tax.
And then there's the assertions that are just plain wrong, like that it requires an ID to purchase a bus pass or cell phone. I've never been asked for ID when getting either and the people selling them to me have happily accepted cash.
So, if you link a source will it get labeled "far right?" I think the simplest question to ask is "Is this source obviously and blatantly lying to support its point?" If the answer is yes then it's probably far right.
The second question might be "Is this source using individual cases to attempt to disprove population level statistics?" This one is less certainly far right but we do see if quite often from the far right. "If the facts don't support your position bring up an anecdote!"
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @04:04AM (10 children)
Though most claims that 'minorities' would have more difficulty obtaining ID than anyone else are probably anecdotal I would be in favor of the government funding ID and not requiring people to pay.
I guess some of the surveys say that one reason people claim to not have ID in surveys is that they lost it. Are minorities more likely to lose their ID? Or is the argument that they are less likely to be able to afford a replacement? Perhaps the government can pay for a possible replacement every so often?
(Score: 4, Informative) by helel on Monday May 15, @05:29AM (9 children)
Most minorities have a greater percentage of people living below the poverty line [census.gov] than white Americans. That is a fact. Because ID ain't free it's harder to get if you're poor and that means it serves as a greater barrier to minorities because more of them, proportionally, are poor.
And all of that is without even getting into opportunity cost of waiting all day at the DMV. Nice middle class job you can probably take a personal day to get your ID sorted. Factory or service or farm worker taking that time is looking at lost wages for a day in addition to the cost of the ID itself.
This isn't anecdotal, nor even controversial.
It's nice to want ID to be free, and presumably want it to be easy to obtain as well, but right now it simply isn't and none of the republican voter ID laws have changed that at all except in so far as a few have made exceptions for older voters who, wouldn't you know it, tend to vote republican in greater numbers! It's almost like they're intentionally trying to control who's allowed to vote in order to maximize their own power.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @12:34PM (6 children)
I think claims that they can't take a single day off to find their way to the DMV to get an ID are anecdotal. What, they work 60 hours a week but can't afford a day off? They have zero days off throughout the year? They can get to work every day but not the DMV just once? Very unlikely and likely anecdotal.
As far as the cost of an ID, I agree, it should be free and that should be the solution you should push for.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by helel on Monday May 15, @01:36PM (5 children)
A third of lower income workers can't take time off when they need to. [pewresearch.org] Anecdote means using an individual story. Explaining that many people who are poor can't afford to take time off work isn't an anecdote, it's a fact. Now you could criticize me not citing that fact but then we'd have to ask where your citations are.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @01:59PM (4 children)
Yeah, if they need to take weeks off I can see why that's a problem. But are you saying they don't have any days off at all? They work 7 days a week, 60 hours a week or whatever, and can't afford to take a single day off?
"Just over half of workers (54%) say they feared losing their job" (from your link)
Yeah, if they needed to take like a week or a few weeks off. But a day off that's their normal day off unless you're suggesting they work 7 days a week and are required to? Do they work 360 days a year?
"while about four-in-ten say they felt badly about their co-workers taking on additional work (42%) or worried that taking time off might hurt their chances for job advancement (40%)"
Again, don't they get any regular days off at all?
There is a difference between a last minute call off and normal day off that you can use to make your way to the DMV. You make it to work every day, you can make it to the DMV on your day off.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @02:04PM (3 children)
Also, from your article
"But those with lower incomes are considerably more likely than those with higher incomes to say their employer denied their request for time off or that they thought they might risk losing their job if they took time off."
Yeah, a last minute call off I can see. But this is something you can plan for weeks ahead or something you can find time to do on your regular off days.
(Score: 2) by helel on Monday May 15, @02:09PM (2 children)
"Saying that many working class people can't afford to take time off work is anecdotal."
"Here's data demonstrating that a significant percentage cannot take time off."
"Ok, but like what if they tried, like, more?"
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @03:17PM (1 child)
Which is not the argument being made.
BTW
"Academic studies suggest that voter ID laws do probably reduce turnout, both among Democrats and Republicans, but not by more than about 2 percent."
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/08/voter-id-laws-why-do-minorities-lack-id-to-show-at-the-polls.html [slate.com]
So it affects voter turnout for both parties and not by more than about two percent total regardless. and, out of that two percent, how many people can relatively easily obtain IDs but just didn't bother?
You guys are complaining about things at the margins ... even the data suggests your complaints are mostly anecdotal.
(Score: 2) by helel on Monday May 15, @03:45PM
"But they square with the general notion that higher turnout is helpful to Democrats, on balance. If you take the average between them, it suggests that a 1-point increase in turnout would improve the Democrat’s margin in the popular vote by a half a percentage point, accounting for other factors."
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday May 15, @12:46PM (1 child)
Its very state-based, locality, and time based.
My county sells birth certificates at quite a discount to the named person, like $10 to keep nuisance people from ordering new copies rather than keeping your original cert. Genealogy research type BCs are quite a bit more expensive like $50. Your county courthouse will vary. I'm sure there are leftist "tax the hell out of them" areas where a BC costs $500 because they can charge that much.
Where I live, state ID cards are free. The DMV went 99% online during covid and doesn't seem likely to go in office any time soon. They have online appointments for the few IRL things required such as taking the photo and signing documents so its "less than lunch hour". The people most inconvenienced by the DMV are rural and white so the usual suspects are OK with that fact, generally pretty happy to hear that. Again I'm sure there are leftist "tax the hell out of them" areas where state ID cards cost $200 per year, but thankfully I live in a red area so ID cards are literally free (drivers licenses cost a nominal amount but ID cards are free).
WRT time if you're in an emergency situation need that passport yesterday which needs a BC yesterday, sure you can skip mail order which takes almost a week and get that BC in less than an hour in person. That will cost a lot of money. A longer term time issue is ID cards have been free at least since my great-uncle surrendered his drivers license back in the 2010s and a quick google verified its still free in 2023, but I'm sure this wildly varies year by year.
Generally the standard of living is vastly higher in red areas and voter disenfranchisement is loudly proclaimed to be worse in blue areas. Most people are not feudal slaves; move to civilized red states if they're so much better because they want to vote. It all seems much ado about nothing.
(Score: 2) by helel on Monday May 15, @02:05PM
Yes, most states make ID's free if you're 65 or older [dmv.com]. Somehow "voter ID is free for old people but not for working age people" seems to support the voter suppression theory better than the election security theory, imo.
As we all know, dying younger is the hallmark of a high standard of living [harvard.edu]. It's why republicans are anti-choice. You're jealous of those who die without even being born!
Just out of curiosity, who is proclaiming voter disenfranchisement to be worse in blue states? Sources please.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @04:26AM (11 children)
"And then there's the assertions that are just plain wrong, like that it requires an ID to purchase a bus pass or cell phone."
What about cell phone service? How do you pay for that, cash?
(Score: 2) by helel on Monday May 15, @05:15AM (10 children)
Yes? Prepaid plans available at your nearest Walmart. Or gas station, sometimes.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @06:04AM (9 children)
Well, I think ID should be free.
So it's not too much of an inconvenience to keep going to the store to keep paying for cell phone service but it's too much of an inconvenience to go to the DMV one time to obtain the necessary ID to open up a bank account so that you can pay for your cell phone service automatically when necessary and not have to keep going to the store to keep prepaying for your cell phone service?
How do you get the money to pay for your cell phone? Do you work? Does your employer not verify your ID? How do you pay taxes? Do you work under the table and that's why you pay cash (because you get paid cash?)?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by helel on Monday May 15, @06:14AM (8 children)
What you are doing now is called "moving the goal posts." You (implicitly) asserted that ID is needed to get a phone plan. I demonstrated that it is not. You then rushed to change your assertion to "it's no harder to go to the DMV than pick up a card when you're at Walmart."
As for the rest of it, think about it. Just really think about it. Who's more likely to get paid under the table in cash, or get paid legitimately but use a cashing service because they don't have a bank account and work in a job that doesn't require an ID to get? It sure as fuck isn't the well off white suburbanite.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @12:29PM (7 children)
I never said it's required, I was asking questions in response to someone else saying that. Though I would say the "Other people that's asking them to chose between feeding their children and voting. That's one hell of a poll tax." is anecdotal, to the extent it might be true, the solution is to make IDs free not to not require them for voting.
Are you referring to a cash app? They don't check ID? Financial institutions, for instance, generally must check ID (Patriot act). If they're writing checks who's cashing them? A bank or financial institution. If they're being given checks without ID checks and financial institutions are cashing them without IDs then that sounds like there is a much higher probability that they are working under the table and not paying their taxes if their identity is not being tracked at all.
(Score: 2) by helel on Monday May 15, @01:28PM (6 children)
Can a bank use an employee identification card as the sole means to verify a customer’s identity? [ncua.gov]
The CIP rule gives examples of types of documents that have long been considered primary sources of identification and reflects the Agencies’ expectation that banks will obtain government-issued identification from most customers. However, other forms of identification may be used if they enable the bank to form a reasonable belief that it knows the true identity of the customer.
I swear, every time I turn around it's like you've made up a new lie. Banks where I am accept student ID cards. Strongly they aren't allowed as ID in any of the voter
suppressionID laws that I'm aware of. I wonder if that has anything to do with young people generally not voting for republicans?Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @02:49PM (3 children)
Here is a list of acceptable ID cards
https://www.centralbank.net/learning-center/what-are-acceptable-forms-of-id-and-proof-of-address/ [centralbank.net]
So what kind of ID do you need to become a student to obtain a student ID?
The bank must "form a reasonable belief that it knows the true identity of the customer" why would you not want that for voting?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @02:51PM (1 child)
Presumably, to be a student the school needs to track who you are to be able to keep track of your academic record, what classes you've taken, how you performed, what degrees you've obtained, etc ...
(Score: 2) by helel on Monday May 15, @03:50PM
So then student ID card should be good enough to vote, right? Why do you think it is that republicans have specifically not allowed them as voter ID?
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @02:59PM
besides, if you really read the details, it is unlikely a student ID alone would be sufficient. They may use it in conjunction with others. Also, doing some Googling, it seems like a student ID would be useful for opening a(n) (joint) account for a minor or a custodial account.
"Given the availability of counterfeit and fraudulently obtained documents, a bank is encouraged to review more than a single document to
ensure it can form a reasonable belief that it knows the true identity of the customer"
https://www.fdic.gov/news/financial-institution-letters/2021/fil21012b.pdf [fdic.gov]
Other information they must obtain from the document linked to might include things like
"Name,
Date of birth for an individual,
Address,14 and
Identification number"
So to open a bank account you need really need to prove your identity but not to vote.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @03:08PM (1 child)
Also, from your own document
"2. Can a bank open an account for a U.S. person that does not have a taxpayer
identification number?
No, the bank cannot unless the customer has applied for a taxpayer identification number, the
bank confirms that the application was filed before the customer opened the account, and the
bank obtains the taxpayer identification number within a reasonable period of time after the
account is opened."
(just for reference lacking legal capacity in the following sentences to that generally refers to minors or those that are deemed mentally incapable ... a custodian or guardian or fiduciary can open the account for them but they must still provide those identifying documents).
Notice a few paragraphs down "the Agencies’ expectation that banks will obtain government-issued identification from most customers." (from your own document).
"The final rule provides that a bank’s CIP must contain procedures for verifying the identity of the
customer"
The requirements are rather rigorous, but you want voting to have little to no identifying requirements.
(Score: 2) by helel on Monday May 15, @03:56PM
If you can use a taxpayer ID number as voter ID you're going to need to cite the law because I'm not aware of any where it's accepted. Generally it's more like a photo ID and less like "here's this number I've memorized."
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @05:14AM (2 children)
"So, if you link a source will it get labeled "far right?" I think the simplest question to ask is "Is this source obviously and blatantly lying to support its point?" If the answer is yes then it's probably far right."
So is this a case of if they compile their own data on a given subject and you don't like the results you'll claim it's a lie.
"The second question might be "Is this source using individual cases to attempt to disprove population level statistics?" This one is less certainly far right but we do see if quite often from the far right. "If the facts don't support your position bring up an anecdote!"
and if they use individual cases as an example you claim it's anecdotal.
If this is the case then you can see why you sound like a cult.
(Score: 2) by helel on Monday May 15, @06:04AM (1 child)
Look, I can't stop you from treating the doctor recommending you avoid lead intake and the guy who "compiled their own data" and swears it's the perfect zero calorie sweetener as equally valid. I would just recommend, for your sake, that you learn to exercise a little better critical thinking before you accidentally find yourself refusing a potentially life-saving vaccine because somebody on YouTube told you it contains tracking chip or changes your DNA or whatever.
And yes, if they use an individual case that's an anecdote. That's what an anecdote is. Are you confused about this?
Sometimes anecdotes are used as examples of facts. 16% of diabetics have rationed insulin in the last year. Here's a story about one specific diabetic we talked to about it.
Other times, particularly in the case of right wingers and the more insane left wing anecdotes are used in place of facts. "I couldn't sit down this one time because a guy was manspreading on the subway and that's why I think men should not be allowed to use the seats on trains and busses." Or in this case "I am/used to be/know a poor and I/they have an ID." The anecdote, even granting that it is true, simply does not address the issue on a mass scale.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @12:37PM
The sources you deem 'legitimate' also compiled their own data just as well it's just that you arbitrarily choose which sources you deem legitimate no different than a cult.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Tuesday May 16, @09:43PM
You'll absolutely love this [theguardian.com] then.
Dear oh dear oh dear. Poor conservative snowflakes! It backfired!
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @02:28AM
Greens? No thanks! [wikimedia.org] And they align themselves with conservatives in Germany and Ireland too. A lot of the so called "liberal" parties are actually very conservative that pay only lip service to the opposition
(Score: 3, Touché) by ElizabethGreene on Sunday May 14, @01:30PM (3 children)
As a data point, my ID photo is 16 years and 120 pounds/50 kilos ago. I would barely recognize me in it.
(Score: 2) by GloomMower on Sunday May 14, @02:32PM (2 children)
I thought you need to get a new one every 6 years or so. Yours does not expire?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Snotnose on Sunday May 14, @03:01PM
Here in California, if you don't get any traffic tickets then you can renew your license by mail and they just re-use the old picture.
Note I'm guessing here. I haven't had any tickets, last year was the first time in 12 years I had to renew in person. My earlier picture was 12 years out of date. I don't know if it was a cap on auto-renewals, or if I hit an age cap, or sunspots.
I just passed a drug test. My dealer has some explaining to do.
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Sunday May 14, @04:58PM
It's state-by-state specific AFAIK, unless there's some requirement I'm ignorant of in e.g. the Real ID act.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by GloomMower on Sunday May 14, @02:36PM (3 children)
80% is not 0% I suppose.
But maybe this can be used an excuse to fingerprint everyone and use fingerprints or something?
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Sunday May 14, @02:52PM (1 child)
If you start trying to finger everyone, you'll probably be arrested for something else.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday May 15, @12:08AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20, @03:31PM
Just be Japanese. They like to fingerprint people at their border.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @02:09AM (3 children)
"People known as "super-recognizers" perform far better than the general population at tests of face recognition"
I'm fairly certain my brother is one of these people. I think when he was like two years old or whatever when 'santa clause' entered the room he immediately identified who it was as though he didn't even recognize they were wearing a costume and attempting to conceal their identity. To him they weren't even trying to disguise themselves, their identity was obvious.
For as long as I can remember he can immediately, effortlessly, and very accurately identify people he's last seen decades ago as little kids decades later, despite them being unrecognizable to anyone else today, decades later even if we just happen to come across them in a completely crowded public environment full of strangers at a distance off to the side (ie: at a grocery store, mall, a very crowded beach, etc...). To him the identity is obvious despite the fact that this person isn't even recognizable to anyone else and many people can barely remember this person.
I didn't know this was a career ... I forwarded this to him.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @02:12AM
As a matter of fact when I (or anyone that knows him) want to know if two people are the same people I consult with my brother.
(Score: 2) by helel on Monday May 15, @05:33AM (1 child)
I am the opposite of a "super-recognizer," both in that I suck at recognizing people's faces and in that people routinely recognize me from decades ago saying I look just the same as I did back in high school. I guess at least my looks are consistent, if not necessarily good ;-p
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 15, @12:42PM
I'm the opposite myself ... I suck at recognizing people that aren't familiar to me.