An international team of linguists and geneticists led by researchers from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig has achieved a significant breakthrough in our understanding of the origins of Indo-European, a family of languages spoken by nearly half of the world's population.
For over two hundred years, the origin of the Indo-European languages has been disputed. Two main theories have recently dominated this debate: the 'Steppe' hypothesis, which proposes an origin in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe around 6000 years ago, and the 'Anatolian' or 'farming' hypothesis, suggesting an older origin tied to early agriculture around 9000 years ago. Previous phylogenetic analyses of Indo-European languages have come to conflicting conclusions about the age of the family, due to the combined effects of inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the datasets they used and limitations in the way that phylogenetic methods analyzed ancient languages.
[...] The team used recently developed ancestry-enabled Bayesian phylogenetic analysis to test whether ancient written languages, such as Classical Latin and Vedic Sanskrit, were the direct ancestors of modern Romance and Indic languages, respectively. Russell Gray, Head of the Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution and senior author of the study, emphasized the care they had taken to ensure that their inferences were robust. "Our chronology is robust across a wide range of alternative phylogenetic models and sensitivity analyses", he stated. These analyses estimate the Indo-European family to be approximately 8100 years old, with five main branches already split off by around 7000 years ago.
These results are not entirely consistent with either the Steppe or the farming hypotheses. The first author of the study, Paul Heggarty, observed that "Recent ancient DNA data suggest that the Anatolian branch of Indo-European did not emerge from the Steppe, but from further south, in or near the northern arc of the Fertile Crescent — as the earliest source of the Indo-European family. Our language family tree topology, and our lineage split dates, point to other early branches that may also have spread directly from there, not through the Steppe."
The authors of the study therefore proposed a new hybrid hypothesis for the origin of the Indo-European languages, with an ultimate homeland south of the Caucasus and a subsequent branch northwards onto the Steppe, as a secondary homeland for some branches of Indo-European entering Europe with the later Yamnaya and Corded Ware-associated expansions. "Ancient DNA and language phylogenetics thus combine to suggest that the resolution to the 200-year-old Indo-European enigma lies in a hybrid of the farming and Steppe hypotheses", remarked Gray.
Wolfgang Haak, a Group Leader in the Department of Archaeogenetics at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, summarizes the implications of the new study by stating, "Aside from a refined time estimate for the overall language tree, the tree topology and branching order are most critical for the alignment with key archaeological events and shifting ancestry patterns seen in the ancient human genome data. This is a huge step forward from the mutually exclusive, previous scenarios, towards a more plausible model that integrates archaeological, anthropological and genetic findings."
Journal Reference:
Paul Heggarty, Cormac Anderson, Matthew Scarborough, et al., Language trees with sampled ancestors support a hybrid model for the origin of Indo-European languages, Science, 28 July 2023 DOI: 10.1126/science.abg0818
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Thexalon on Tuesday November 14 2023, @07:41PM (10 children)
Based on approximately where the proto-Indo-Europeans were, two resources they'd have fairly easy access to would be wheeled carts (developed in Mesopotamia) and horses (common on the steppes). So combining those two together means you have the technology to move larger amounts of stuff more easily to places when you don't have handy rivers and other water transport available. This gives them what they need to take on the role of merchants, and when you're traveling around and showing things to people that have never seen that thing before you're going to tell them your name for it, and since they don't have one of their own they'll use yours.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 5, Funny) by Tork on Tuesday November 14 2023, @07:54PM (1 child)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 3, Funny) by Freeman on Tuesday November 14 2023, @08:47PM
Actual source of COVID-19 found. Must have been from some abominable strain of coffee bean.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2023, @08:03PM (5 children)
> and since they don't have one of their own they'll use yours.
Nice idea, but it'll never work in France (or Gaul for that matter)...
(Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Tuesday November 14 2023, @08:37PM (4 children)
Not actually true, e.g. I'd bet you can figure out what "une t-shirt" and "le bleu-jeans" are.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2023, @12:39AM (3 children)
Well, it was meant as a joke. But I haven't forgotten the waiter, somewhere near Annecy, who rather sharply told us: "En France, parlez français!"
(Score: 4, Funny) by gawdonblue on Wednesday November 15 2023, @07:01AM
It's part of the service.
The last time a French waiter decided that they could, after all, speak English without the customer first being required to attempt their order in "France-ayz" Notre Dame burnt down.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Thexalon on Wednesday November 15 2023, @12:09PM (1 child)
Reminds me of the classic exchange in Babylon 5:
Ivonova: "At least it tells us they understand our language. They're just not willing to speak to us in it."
Marcus: "Who knew they were French!"
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday November 15 2023, @02:53PM
The end of that series had a very easy movie / new series tie in. Too bad, no one picked it up. I don't call the reboot that was a prequel, picking up the series, either. Hmm..., well, I guess nothing big came of it anyway. There seems to have been various attempts at reboots and/or just added one off films. Though, apparently there may be a new series reboot in the works?
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 5, Interesting) by mhajicek on Tuesday November 14 2023, @08:10PM
One thing I find amusing about studying medieval weapons is that our word for a regional type of sword is that region's word for "sword".
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 16 2023, @07:06AM
As you note above, they had unique mobility for the region and maybe a reason to start moving. It is interesting that the areas which are thought to be the source region for the Indo-European migrations border on the northern shore of the Black Sea which would be most effected by the hypothetical flooding, but it could be more due to convenient trade networks to the south than due to a catastrophic event.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday November 14 2023, @08:24PM (2 children)
Next, they'll have to find the origins of this sentence. :)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 4, Funny) by SomeRandomGeek on Tuesday November 14 2023, @10:51PM (1 child)
It is a perfectly cromulent sentence.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday November 15 2023, @02:16AM
Stop...you're making me anaspeptic!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Mojibake Tengu on Tuesday November 14 2023, @08:49PM (4 children)
The core reason why demons really hate Russian language is, the Russian grammar and stems are the closest to Sanskrit of all current living European languages.
Usually, the Sanskrit scholars in India who never left the country for generations are surprised they can understand Russian speakers meanings.
In compare, other East-European languages were only "repaired" by European scholars studying Sanskrit in their time, such as was official Czech language grammar and vocabulary in 18.-19. centuries.
For another example, the English language grammar has degenerated greatly since even William Shakespeare's time.
There is no better indication of absolute demonic influence than language destruction.
A Sanskrit LLM may become interesting. I cheer India to such great technical effort of traditional restoration.
Satyaméva Jayaté.
Rust programming language offends both my Intelligence and my Spirit.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Wednesday November 15 2023, @12:08AM
Another grim downside of the Russian sanctions: The Eastern Orthodox Church masking the vodka-turned-communal-wine flavor with battery-acid.
Lithuanian is the closest in all respects.
Nasal or crossroads, the demons I'm familiar with generally favor the ambiguity that comes from conservative languages.
compiling...
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2023, @12:48AM
A friend from Bilbao told me that that there's a language that's guaranteed to set linguists on edge -- Basque.
That was about 50 years ago, he's long gone and I wonder if anyone has made any progress on tracing the origin of the Basque language?
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Wednesday November 15 2023, @06:07PM (1 child)
I've been reading a few books from the 1800s and early 1900s and it's amazing how far the English language has degraded in only 100-200 years. A Manual of Political Economy by Erasmus Peshine Smith (1853) is a pretty good one. Or any of Lodge's biographies. Hamilton's has a pleasant flourish to the writing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 16 2023, @02:03AM
As I like to say- English is the most widely broken language in this world. 😉
More and more people breaking it...
But when people use broken stuff you can often still guess what they mean because you're already used to hearing broken stuff.
And some forms of brokenness might even become mainstream.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by pTamok on Tuesday November 14 2023, @09:04PM (16 children)
Interesting stuff.
Language is just plain weird. I have a lot of respect for linguists.
I once tried to find a word that meant 'the room that contains the device that you piss and shit into that was not some kind of euphemism.
W.C. -> Water closet -> small enclosed room with running water.
Lavatory -> from Latin, place that you wash in.
Latrine -> from Latin for bath.
Bathroom - well I don't piss or shit in the bath. broug' up proper I woz.
Powder Room - What on earth?
Cloakroom. What can I say.
Gents', Men's Room, Ladies' ,Womens Room. Says nothing about the actual function
John. - Um. Yeah. Informative.
Throne room.: - Well, I suppose you do tend to sit on the device, but throne?
Toilet - From the French for 'small cloth'. What?
Khazi: from the Italian for house.
But, finally, I found one. Good on the Antipodeans.
Dunny - from dung house, but is used in Aus and NZ to mean the thing you actual piss and shit in as well as the containing room. Hoorah!
I'm open to better suggestions.
(Score: 2) by SomeRandomGeek on Tuesday November 14 2023, @10:45PM (1 child)
Shit house? I know, it is a building not a room. But its not a euphemism.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2023, @11:19PM
If ya got un out the back like real people do 'ere dun unner, itz iz own 'ouse fer sure
(Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday November 14 2023, @11:45PM
Somewhere out there there's a linguist that knows which state in the USA "yumpto" is actually a word. "I'm fixin' to go off-roadin, yumpto?"
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 4, Informative) by MostCynical on Wednesday November 15 2023, @12:10AM (1 child)
"Dunny" dates from the early 1800s, Scottish in origin, from dung + ken (house) to give “dunnekin” as another name for the outhouse. Once the toilet moved inside, Australians and New Zealanders dropped the kin and kept with the dunny.
Also missed the Australian/New Zealand word "bog"
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Wednesday November 15 2023, @09:06AM
'bog' as a term is/was used in the UK as well. Wiktionary records it: bog [wiktionary.org]. I certainly heard both "I'm on the bog", and "I'm goin' t' bogs.". A while ago, to be sure. I move in different circles now.
And yes, I forgot to include it in the posting, but it was one of the possibilities I had looked at previously. If you like your castle architecture, you can also have 'garderobe', which comes from French, and literally means 'a place where robes/clothes are stored' which, at first sight, seems a long way from 'a place to micturate/urinate and defæcate', but there is a story behind that.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Reziac on Wednesday November 15 2023, @02:54AM (5 children)
Many moons ago an acquaintance was similarly bewailing the indirectness with which we refer to the head.
As a result, he called that little room the "euphemism".
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Wednesday November 15 2023, @07:11AM (2 children)
Interesting that your acquaintance called the place the euphemism, while at my place of work we instead go for a euphemism.
Mind you, together we manage to thread subject.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Wednesday November 15 2023, @09:29AM (1 child)
So we can add 'head'* to the list of euphemisms.
There's quite a few more. Chamber of Easement is one. And of course, people use 'chamber pots'*, the contents of which was 'night soil [wiktionary.org]'
Mental Floss: A 16th-Century Guide to Pooping at King Henry VIII's Hampton Court Palace [mentalfloss.com]
At least Hampton Court had toilets, of a sort. The Palace of Versailles famously had none, and had the same problem of people pissing against the walls.
Or you could use a close-stool [wiktionary.org]. The contents were stools - which is why we have the Bristol stool scale [wikipedia.org].
*Using the head in a smallish yacht in a heavy sea is an experience I have 'enjoyed'.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday November 15 2023, @02:02PM
A different long-ago acquaintance told a story on himself... he'd acquired a small yacht, and it had the usual marine toilet. Except to operate the flush, you had to be sitting on it. Reach waaaay down beside, pull the lever.... and it grabbed his hand and wouldn't let go. Just not quite enough space between wall and toilet for both hand, and once it moved, the lever. So he was stuck there until he managed to work the lever back to Position A (without losing too much skin).
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday November 15 2023, @12:13PM (1 child)
The funny thing is that it's not uncommon for ships with a "head" where you do that sort of thing to also have a "poop deck", which is where you used to do that right over the side.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 3, Informative) by Reziac on Wednesday November 15 2023, @02:04PM
Well, maybe, but that's not the origin of the term. And considering the great height of some of 'em, might be right hazardous. :0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poop_deck [wikipedia.org]
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by mendax on Wednesday November 15 2023, @08:28AM (3 children)
Bear with me because it's been more than 30 years since I last read the book but John Steinbeck in his The Grapes of Wrath put into the mouths of an Oklahoma gas station owner or attendant describing how the Okies heading west were stopping to use their "crappers" but not buying anything. I think "crappers" is probably a pretty good name, and surely is much more descriptive than any of the other more commonly used words and terms. But then even that word's origins is a euphemism. The macOS Dictionary app says,
Who would have known?
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Wednesday November 15 2023, @09:13AM
Yes, I think crappers is good.
Shit comes from a similar root - ultimately (according to Wiktionary [wiktionary.org]) "from Proto-Indo-European *skeyd- (“to split, divide, separate”)"
There is the term 'shit-house', as in the phrase describing a person: "Built like a brick shit-house", meaning well-built, solid. It's an outside toilet, just like the term 'dunny', but I've never heard 'shit-house' used for an indoor toilet.
(Score: 2) by aliks on Wednesday November 15 2023, @10:04AM (1 child)
Fraid not!
In Victorian England Thomas Crapper manufactured porcelain toilet fittings and had his name on written under the glaze. So people started talking about "going to visit the crapper" and the rest is standard linguistics.
Ah STOP PRESS I was going to put in a link to the Wikipedia article on Mr Crapper, but unfortunately the article backs up your etymology. So poor Thomas and his family were just unlucky with their surname.
Ignore this comment . . . .
To err is human, to comment divine
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday November 15 2023, @02:11PM
Nonsense. Mr.Crapper was divinely named, who else could have invented such an appropriately-named device??!
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 16 2023, @02:09AM
Maybe you're just more used to thinking euphemistically about it that's why you didn't think of the obvious?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shithouse [merriam-webster.com]
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/shithouse [dictionary.com]
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/shithouse [collinsdictionary.com]