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posted by janrinok on Thursday November 16 2023, @11:34PM   Printer-friendly
from the If-you-can't-afford-the-medical-care dept.

A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year—including many young and working-age adults—could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations:

In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar to other wealthy nations, according to a new study led by a School of Public Health researcher.

Published in the journal PNAS Nexus, the study refers to these excess deaths as "Missing Americans," because these deaths reflect people who would still be alive if the US mortality rates were equal to its peer countries.

Comparing age-specific death rates in the U.S. and 21 other wealthy nations from 1933 through 2021, the authors find that current death rates in the US are much higher than other wealthy nations, and the number of excess U.S. deaths has never been larger.

"The number of Missing Americans in recent years is unprecedented in modern times," says study lead and corresponding author Jacob Bor, associate professor of global health and epidemiology.

Nearly 50 percent of all Missing Americans died before age 65 in 2020 and 2021. According to Bor, the level of excess mortality among working age adults is particularly stark. "Think of people you know who have passed away before reaching age 65. Statistically, half of them would still be alive if the US had the mortality rates of our peers. The US is experiencing a crisis of early death that is unique among wealthy nations."

The COVID-19 pandemic contributed to a sharp spike in mortality in the US—more so than in other countries—but the new findings show that the number of excess US deaths has been accelerating over the last four decades. Bor and colleagues analyzed trends in US deaths from 1933 to 2021, including the impact of COVID-19, and then compared these trends with age-specific mortality rates in Canada, Japan, Australia, and 18 European nations.

The US had lower mortality rates than peer countries during World War II and its aftermath. During the 1960's and 1970's, the US had mortality rates similar to other wealthy nations, but the number of Missing Americans began to increase year by year starting in the 1980's, reaching 622,534 annual excess U.S. deaths by 2019. Deaths then spiked to 1,009,467 in 2020 and 1,090,103 in 2021 during the pandemic. From 1980 to 2021, there were a total of 13.1 million Missing Americans.

[...] "We waste hundreds of billions each year on health insurers' profits and paperwork, while tens of millions can't afford medical care, healthy food, or a decent place to live," says study senior author Steffie Woolhandler, Distinguished Professor at the School of Urban Public Health at Hunter College, City University of New York. "Americans die younger than their counterparts elsewhere because when corporate profits conflict with health, our politicians side with the corporations."

[...] "The US was already experiencing more than 600,000 Missing Americans annually before the pandemic began, and that number was increasing each year. There have been no significant policy changes since then to change this trajectory," he says.

"While COVID-19 brought new attention to public health, the backlash unleashed during the pandemic has undermined trust in government and support for expansive policies to improve population health," said Bor. "This could be the most harmful long-term impact of the pandemic, because expansion of public policy to support health is exactly how our peer countries have attained higher life expectancy and better health outcomes."

Journal Reference:
Jacob Bor, Andrew C Stokes, Julia Raifman, et al., Missing Americans: Early death in the United States—1933–2021, PNAS Nexus, Volume 2, Issue 6, June 2023, pgad173, https://doi.org/10.1093/pnasnexus/pgad173


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  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @12:26AM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @12:26AM (#1333215)

    How much of it is the opiod crisis, with fentanyl acting as fuel on the fire? Also, a week social safety net compared to these other countries, and that might be related.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by tekk on Friday November 17 2023, @03:59AM (3 children)

      by tekk (5704) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 17 2023, @03:59AM (#1333238)

      Related to the latter is a sort of fatalism/"opting into" earlier death. Their cutoff age for "early death" is retirement age, 65. When my grandparents and great grandparents turned 65 they had pensions, investments, social security checks which I imagine at least covered utilities, they owned the houses they lived in, etc. They were in situations where it was possible (and normal!) to have a comfortable retirement. For an awful lot of people my parents' age there won't be a retirement with "golden years", it'll be when you're too sick to work you stop working. I won't be surprised if by the time I hit retirement age Social Security and Medicare have been replace with privatized "Oh, you weren't plowing that paycheck whose money was all going to living expenses into your retirement account? Too bad." and the situation's even worse. It's harder to justify "I want to live a long, healthy life" when the end of that life is still working with arthritic joints to put food on the table.

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:07PM (2 children)

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:07PM (#1333409) Homepage Journal

        That's what you get for voting for Fascists like Ronald Reagan and the two Bushes and especially Trump. We deserve our pitiful legislators.

        --
        A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday November 19 2023, @05:05PM (1 child)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday November 19 2023, @05:05PM (#1333512) Journal

          My generation and the one after it don't, thanks. It would be almost a decade after Reagan took office before I'd even be born.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday November 22 2023, @12:44AM

            by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Wednesday November 22 2023, @12:44AM (#1333806) Homepage Journal

            That makes you old enough to have voted for President Shrub, whose inattentiveness caused 911, followed by the start of a 20 year war, followed by a very stupid war against the man who threatened to kill his daddy, followed by crashing the economy. In every step, the rich fascists like him got richer while workers all got poorer.

            It's a national embarrassment that it's legal to hire an employee full time at a wage so low that he or she is eligible for poverty assistance. In my day your employer was expected to pay your bills, not the government. SNAP is welfare for McDonald's, not their employees.

            --
            A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday November 17 2023, @01:50PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday November 17 2023, @01:50PM (#1333280)

      >a week social safety net

      It takes much more than a week to get social safety net benefits in the U.S.

      But, seriously, U.S. ideas about SSI and other social support seem to be more centered on punishing those who need it than actually helping them become productive (and healthy) members of society.

      Now, on the healthy front, private healthcare insurance and healthcare providers seem to be in competition to provide worse healthcare to the sub-15% wealthiest than even Medicare gives the indigent...

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Saturday November 18 2023, @08:46AM

      by driverless (4770) on Saturday November 18 2023, @08:46AM (#1333369)

      I'd say it's more a toxic mix of shitty to nonexistent healthcare for the most at-risk, poor worker-protection laws, poor consumer-protection laws (covering dangerously unhealthy foods and the like), and more, with an equally toxic side-order of guns, opioids, and other stuff.

    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:05PM

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:05PM (#1333408) Homepage Journal

      The opioid crisis has nothing to do with it. What DOES have to do with it is we are the only developed nation in the world that doesn't have socialized medicine. Medicine should NOT be part of capitalism. Everyone else has socialized medicine, we have Fascist medicine not unlike WWII Italy. No money, pauper? Die, damn you!

      "But MEDICARE for the poor!" Medicare is horrible, my oldest daughter is disabled and on Medicare. It's single payer but NOT socialized medicine. This is the only nation in the world where people have to choose between insulin and food.

      I am ashamed and disgusted by my country's refusal to socialize health care.

      --
      A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 17 2023, @12:44AM (21 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 17 2023, @12:44AM (#1333218) Journal

    The United States has no peers. Even when we lose that fantastical 'Superpower' status, we will have no peers. There is not another nation on earth that compares to the United States and it's Constitution.

    --
    “I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
    • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @12:50AM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @12:50AM (#1333219)

      Additionally, very few of those Americans are "missing". With few exceptions, they are to be found in graveyards, or up in smoke. What's more, many of them remain on the voting roles, and consistently vote Democrat.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @01:57AM (9 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @01:57AM (#1333225)

        How many times do we have to prove that statistically voter fraud *does not exist* before you people stop bitching about it and using it as an excuse to disenfranchise people who don't vote for you

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @02:41AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @02:41AM (#1333230)

          Vote early. Vote often.

        • (Score: 1, Troll) by VLM on Friday November 17 2023, @12:33PM (6 children)

          by VLM (445) on Friday November 17 2023, @12:33PM (#1333267)

          Statistics are almost entirely used to lie to people in advertisements and PR that generally oppose those people's best interests. I don't think your argument is as convincing as you think it is LOL.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @04:00PM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @04:00PM (#1333293)

            Well which is worse, when they do a study and find literally 14 cases of voting fraud in the election, but one can snarkily say "statistics lol", or when the Orange Clown says "they stole millions of votes!" with zero evidence, and half the country eats it up?

            • (Score: 3, Touché) by VLM on Saturday November 18 2023, @01:28AM (4 children)

              by VLM (445) on Saturday November 18 2023, @01:28AM (#1333350)

              OK, you keep right on using a term and strategy most people associate directly with being lied to by paid PR firms, as your primary sophistry technique to convince people they're not being lied to, I'm sure that'll be very persuasive to people reading it, LOL.

              • (Score: 3, Funny) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:14PM (3 children)

                by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:14PM (#1333412) Homepage Journal

                The orange traitor to my beloved country is a proven liar and fraudster time and time again. And you appear to be one of his victims.

                --
                A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday November 19 2023, @05:07PM (2 children)

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday November 19 2023, @05:07PM (#1333513) Journal

                  That's not a victim. That is a willing, useful idiot. Victim implies he can't help it, but if he would spend 10 minutes just looking at reality with a clear head, he wouldn't be thinking and acting this way. No, our frothy friend here is all-in on MAGA insanity and it's entirely his own fault. He's thrown his human card in the incinerator while cackling like a coked-up hyena at the chance to "own the libs."

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                  • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday November 22 2023, @12:49AM (1 child)

                    by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Wednesday November 22 2023, @12:49AM (#1333808) Homepage Journal

                    It's not an idiot's fault he's stupid, and taking advantage of his stupidity is what evil people do. Maybe his mom was an alcoholic when she was pregnant with him. Maybe she dropped him on his head. Taking advantage of a stupid man is as wrong as taking advantage of a blind man's disability. I pity the poor stupid MAGATs (Make America Grate Again Terrorists, "great" was a misspelling)

                    --
                    A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2023, @01:41AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2023, @01:41AM (#1333812)

                      I pity the poor stupid MAGATs (Make America Grate Again Terrorists, "great" was a misspelling)

                      Don't quit your day jerb.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by https on Friday November 17 2023, @08:48PM

          by https (5248) on Friday November 17 2023, @08:48PM (#1333321) Journal

          Proof doesn't matter to people who are walking the fascist path. But you go on prooving harder things that are already proved. They love it when you waste your time thinking you're 'debating' them.

          --
          Offended and laughing about it.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Tork on Friday November 17 2023, @04:15AM (4 children)

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 17 2023, @04:15AM (#1333239)

      The United States has no peers. Even when we lose that fantastical 'Superpower' status, we will have no peers. There is not another nation on earth that compares to the United States and it's Constitution.

      The goal of that little bit of grandstanding is to guide people away from discussing the USA's horrible track record with guns.

      --
      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
      • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 17 2023, @12:18PM (2 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 17 2023, @12:18PM (#1333264) Journal

        Preposterous. Our track record with guns is great. Our track record in dealing with nutcases and criminals is abysmal. When people call the cops to report an unstable fool with a gun, the cops can't be bothered to deal with the unstable fool, even when they have a yellow flag law with which to work.

        Lewiston, Maine epitomizes police conduct in relation to nutcases reported in the past. Want to talk about the Boston marathon bombers? Russia informed the US that the brothers were terrorists, and we ignored them. Want to talk about Nicolas Cruz? The list goes on. Cruz was in trouble repeatedly, he was reported, the cops looked, closed their eyes, and went the other way. Want to talk about Uvalde? Do I need to remind you that the cops refused to stop the shooter, until they were certain the body count was high enough?

        The day our government decides to deal with crazies and criminals decisively, your "gun problem" will end.

        --
        “I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @07:46PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @07:46PM (#1333313)

          Our track record with guns is great... When people call the cops to report an unstable fool with a gun, the cops can't be bothered to deal with the unstable fool, even when they have a yellow flag law with which to work.

          Maybe if you lot didn't cry about how we live in Hitler's Germany every time you think someone's gun will be taken away there'd be movement on getting the shootings under control.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Tork on Friday November 17 2023, @08:24PM

          by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 17 2023, @08:24PM (#1333319)

          Preposterous.

          No. And we need to grow up and quit being in denial about it.

          --
          🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday November 17 2023, @01:52PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday November 17 2023, @01:52PM (#1333281)

        We have no peers when it comes to gun ownership rights. The death by legally owned firearms rates prove it.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Friday November 17 2023, @12:37PM

      by PiMuNu (3823) on Friday November 17 2023, @12:37PM (#1333268)

      fortunately true

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by istartedi on Friday November 17 2023, @04:28PM

      by istartedi (123) on Friday November 17 2023, @04:28PM (#1333294) Journal

      It sounded like you were about to make a good point, then you went all jingoistic.

      The point I thought you were about to make is that the USA has no peers because it's the most powerful federation of states, many of which rival countries when analyzed as independent entities. That's why these discussions need to be more about the individual states. The Deep South is where a lot of the problems are. When you look at lifespans for other parts of the country such as New England, it often compares favorably with Europe.

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
    • (Score: 2) by r1348 on Friday November 17 2023, @09:06PM

      by r1348 (5988) on Friday November 17 2023, @09:06PM (#1333324)

      And it's knowledge of grammar.

    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:11PM (1 child)

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:11PM (#1333411) Homepage Journal

      Typical Trump fan. Here's Bob's quick guide to the apostrophe, you idiots [angryflower.com]

      --
      A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:21PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:21PM (#1333417) Journal

        You use your apostrophe's any which way you like, and I'll do the same. It's my right as an American' citizen to butcher the language as I wish.

        --
        “I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
  • (Score: 4, Informative) by tekk on Friday November 17 2023, @12:51AM (1 child)

    by tekk (5704) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 17 2023, @12:51AM (#1333220)

    "The US would have fewer deaths per year if the number of people who died every year was lower" somehow manages to slip into tfs *multiple* times. I'd certainly hope it would :D

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by Thexalon on Friday November 17 2023, @11:29AM

      by Thexalon (636) on Friday November 17 2023, @11:29AM (#1333258)

      Hey, the first rule of Tautology Club is the first rule of Tautology Club! That doesn't make it untrue.

      --
      "Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Mykl on Friday November 17 2023, @02:04AM (14 children)

    by Mykl (1112) on Friday November 17 2023, @02:04AM (#1333227)

    It's actually a poor nation that happens to have a sizeable number of ultra-wealthy people who live there too.

    Once you take the ultra-wealthy out of the equation, it becomes quite evident how bad the state of affairs in the US really is. If you ignore averages and instead take the median person in the US, they are significantly worse off than the median person in all other developed nations.

    Interesting to see the butt-hurt from other commenters - it's difficult for many Americans to acknowledge this simple fact - the US is a wonderful place if you are rich, but a dystopian hellscape if you are not.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @06:27AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @06:27AM (#1333243)

      Interesting to see the butt-hurt from other commenters

      Not really sure where this "butt-hurt" is. Or the two of us have rather different definitions of that term.

      Yeah there's a couple "ooh-rah" chest-thumping Runaway/conspiracy ranting posts, but nothing I would call "butthurt".

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by anubi on Friday November 17 2023, @07:52PM (1 child)

        by anubi (2828) on Friday November 17 2023, @07:52PM (#1333315) Journal

        Rants... isn't that what we are here for?

        Otherwise, I might as well just tune into MSM.

        I come here for the rants, and occasionally leave a few too. A good rant illuminates other viewpoints. It's called "free speech".

        --
        "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
        • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:18PM

          by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:18PM (#1333415) Homepage Journal

          I come here for interesting conversation about things that matter. If I wanted rants I'd go to slashdupe or Fakebook.

          --
          A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by pvanhoof on Friday November 17 2023, @08:00AM (2 children)

      by pvanhoof (4638) on Friday November 17 2023, @08:00AM (#1333249) Homepage

      I life in the world's highest median wealth country [brusselstimes.com]. I think the fact that we have one of the best social security systems contributes a lot.

      I do have to point out that having a high median for wealth does not mean that there are a lot of rich people. For that you have to go to Switzerland (and choose a canton with low income and corporate taxes [wikipedia.org]). It also means having very high taxes for nearly everything. As for infrastructure, we're also not doing very well (even though road taxes are high). The Netherlands for example has much better roads, etc (but their road taxes are also really high).

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:29PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:29PM (#1333419) Homepage Journal

        (even though road taxes are high)

        Road taxes shouldn't exist. In America they started in 1919 Oregon, back when automobiles were only toys for rich men who were the only reason for needing roads at all; horses and wagons don't need roads. That was back when only the rich paid taxes here (before WWII the lowest taxable income was over 4 times the median) and all people and goods were transported by horse.

        Today, you don't even need to ride a bus or bicycle to need roads, everything and everyone is transported by engine and motor propelled vehicles that need roads. Today you can't eat without roads. Roads should be paid for by income tax (and Nazi Musk and Fascist Trump should pay AT LEAST the same percentage as someone on minimum wage!).

        There should not be road taxes, and only those earning over $250,000 a year should have to pay any taxes at all.

        I hate Fascism. My nation went to war against fascism in WWII, it looks to me like we lost.

        --
        A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday November 19 2023, @04:40AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 19 2023, @04:40AM (#1333481) Journal

        I life in the world's highest median wealth country.

        Based on what metric? Are you counting income in that wealth? For example, Belgium has median wages PPP of $11.5k less than the US. While wealth and income aren't synonymous, one should see a considerable multiple of income (say 10-20 years of income) in the calculations of wealth. I can tell already, that's being outright ignored since Belgium median wealth would likely be over $350k just from income alone.

        And of course, that means that US wealth would be increased by $100k to $250k relative to Belgian wealth, if we were using this more accurate measure.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Friday November 17 2023, @08:51AM (2 children)

      by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Friday November 17 2023, @08:51AM (#1333251)

      A relative in West Virginia, an internal colony where almost everyone is poor, turned 47 and looked up his grade school classmates.

      Half were dead.

      Lots of drugs and cars, I don't know what all else.

      Now it's spreading.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Friday November 17 2023, @11:35AM

        by Thexalon (636) on Friday November 17 2023, @11:35AM (#1333260)

        I don't know what all else

        In West Virginia, black lung disease [mountainstatespotlight.org], a mostly preventable condition caused by unsafe coal mining practices, is extremely common. The mining companies of course resist heavily any steps that might be taken to protect the miners from it, because as far as they're concerned miners are completely disposable and the brass are pretty much never held accountable when their decisions lead to the death of miners.

        --
        "Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:32PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:32PM (#1333420) Homepage Journal

        You're in coal country. Coal miners have never lived long.

        --
        A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by khallow on Friday November 17 2023, @11:22AM (2 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 17 2023, @11:22AM (#1333257) Journal

      Once you take the ultra-wealthy out of the equation, it becomes quite evident how bad the state of affairs in the US really is. If you ignore averages and instead take the median person in the US, they are significantly worse off than the median person in all other developed nations.

      If you bothered to look up these figures before you made that claim, you would have written something else. The US is really high by median income metrics (for example, here [wikipedia.org], here [wisevoter.com], or here [pewresearch.org]).

      Health care cost is the main problem here with a nasty synergy to ineffective social safety nets (via Medicare and Medicaid).

      Interesting to see the butt-hurt from other commenters - it's difficult for many Americans to acknowledge this simple fact - the US is a wonderful place if you are rich, but a dystopian hellscape if you are not.

      When the narrative is more important than the facts.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:38PM (1 child)

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:38PM (#1333422) Homepage Journal

        Health care cost is the main problem here

        That's because we don't have socialized medicine like the civilized world does. Insurance companies are incredibly expensive middlemen who should not exist. Insurance is one of the few industries that should be nationalized.

        When the narrative is more important than the facts.

        I find the ironic hypocrisy here to be very amusing.

        --
        A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday November 18 2023, @11:32PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @11:32PM (#1333467) Journal

          That's because we don't have socialized medicine like the civilized world does. Insurance companies are incredibly expensive middlemen who should not exist. Insurance is one of the few industries that should be nationalized.

          I disagree, of course. The US already has some heavily socialized medicine with spending per capita comparable to those other "civilized world" health care programs. So that part isn't helping. As to the insurance companies, they worked fine prior to 1970. My take is that what changed was an aggressive expansion of requirements and costs on insurance - I think using the health insurance sector to achieve universal coverage goals, combined with a severe restriction of who can provide health care services. This is the usual expensive recipe for sky high prices - encourage demand and restrict supply.

          Consider also that the rest of the world has private health insurance too. It's not hurting them, right?

          I find the ironic hypocrisy here to be very amusing.

          What hypocrisy is there?

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Friday November 17 2023, @12:37PM

      by VLM (445) on Friday November 17 2023, @12:37PM (#1333269)

      developed nations

      No longer a developed nation. If you intentionally by policy get rid of all your "developed" stuff like industry, etc, and then replace your population with folks from undeveloped nations, you have a 3rd world country.

      USA is doing pretty well compared to our actual peers in El Salvador. Our peers are no longer Switzerland or Norway lol.

    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Saturday November 18 2023, @08:50AM

      by driverless (4770) on Saturday November 18 2023, @08:50AM (#1333370)

      Russia is an even more extreme version of that. Last time I checked, which was before 2022 so it's probably changed since then, by mean income it was Romania or Kazahkstan, by median income it was an African country.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by RedGreen on Friday November 17 2023, @03:46AM (15 children)

    by RedGreen (888) on Friday November 17 2023, @03:46AM (#1333236)

    "but the new findings show that the number of excess US deaths has been accelerating over the last four decades."

    You have the Repugnant Party assholes and their anti anything good or descent trying to subvert any progress in science and society for all that time. It is no wonder their wanting to murder their fellow citizens to cause chaos with that garbage they continually spread has had an effect. So sad if Americans actually wanted to live up to the words they claim to believe in it could be a good country. But both of the parties there are either totally spineless/useless like the Democrats or murdering bastards like the Repugnants.

    --
    "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Friday November 17 2023, @01:17PM (3 children)

      by bzipitidoo (4388) on Friday November 17 2023, @01:17PM (#1333278) Journal

      Yes, "Republicans are stupid barbarians and Democrats are wimps" is a narrative I've been hearing a lot lately. I very much hope that's almost all mainstream media exaggeration.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by RedGreen on Friday November 17 2023, @02:30PM (2 children)

        by RedGreen (888) on Friday November 17 2023, @02:30PM (#1333286)

        "Yes, "Republicans are stupid barbarians and Democrats are wimps" is a narrative I've been hearing a lot lately. I very much hope that's almost all mainstream media exaggeration."

        The useless in the pockets of the parasite corporations media who are the, if not the cause, certainly an enabler as they do their both sides now bull shit. Their never saying a word against the murdering Repugnants or let alone calling them out for the outright traitors they are as they continue to subvert democracy and the constitution of the United States that should be done everyday 24/7 by them. For me it is not a narrative but a conclusion I have come to after all these years of watching it happen. Being here watching as the spineless Democrat bastards let the Repugnants get away with literally murdering their fellow citizens by their actions and doing next to nothing to fight back against it. It was not the media that lead me there but my own mind trying to figure out just why the hell they do nothing, finding an opinion may be possible in the media by I see very little of it from these supposed "news" organizations who doing nothing now but go for entertainment in their programs and writing it seems. The American people are in for some interesting times as the Chinese curse you with in that saying of theirs, the coming civil war after the next election cycle, especially if the Repugnants lose as they should is going to kill millions more than they already have.

        I had thought as I watched America burn night after night on the TV as a child during the 60s, from actual NEWS programs that did that job, that the problems there were being solved by the politicians and the voters. But no they just went underground like the fascists did everywhere around the world at that time after being beaten back from WWII to slowly but surely build again for their next run at taking over the world and slaughtering countless millions once more. We can see the results everywhere again today in this world as they emerge spreading their garbage all over the place the killing has started again and is truly in place in so many countries. These fucking useless bastards we have elected that are supposedly for human rights let it go on for the most part unchallenged as they take their bribe money from the cocksucking billionaire owned corporations that support it all to look the other way and pay lip service to their supposed idea of freedom and democracy for all. The next few years look fairly bleak as they get to control more and more countries to push their murdering agenda to the next place they control. At least I am nearer the end than the beginning now and will not have to live through much more of it, just get through a few more years before nature has it say then it will be done with none of this to think about anymore.

        --
        "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Saturday November 18 2023, @03:17AM (1 child)

          by bzipitidoo (4388) on Saturday November 18 2023, @03:17AM (#1333356) Journal

          The two biggest problems of current times are, I believe, Global Warming and authoritarianism. Global Warming would be positively easy to deal with if not for the other problem.

          So long as they remain in the minority, albeit an uncomfortably large one, it is possible to handle authoritarians. They can be enjoined to behave themselves and even better themselves. They do have a herd following instinct, and they will behave when they see everyone around them behaving. Demagogues can be kept powerless.

          But on those things, we've been falling down. Authoritarians are way too forgiving (and even loving!) of criminal behavior as long as the criminal can keep up the demagoguery. It is of utmost importance that especially for the highest, crime not pay. Instead, we have several things in an unholy alliance to excuse all kinds of crime. One of these is the media always dramatizing things. Doubtless, TV ratings on Jan 6, 2021 were through the roof. Another is the evangelical and fundamentalist religious organizations preaching such things as that Prosperity Gospel trash. Then there are the rich and other elitist fools who, wrongly uplifted by Prosperity Gospel thinking, think they're superior to everyone else and have the gall to manipulate authoritarians in the worst ways, to maintain their own privileged status.

          From what I read, authoritarians number about 20% of the population, and an additional 20% can be fearmongered into behaving like authoritarians. Being "scared stupid" is a thing. Whether those percentages are steady, I don't know. Maybe if we play a long game to lower those percentages, our descendants can finally have nice things. I fear we don't have time for that. Global Warming is slow, but not that slow. Global Warming getting a lot worse will make today's mortality figures look like a lost Golden Age. I'm thinking the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets collapsed, causing sea levels to rise 65m higher than present. That's enough to drown most of Florida and many other low lying places around the world. That will cause the refugee crisis to end all refugee crises. Add in a bunch of famine, and that could be enough to break the restraint that has so far been exercised around nuclear weapons. Then, the collapse of civilization might be the least of the disasters. We might extinct ourselves. Worst case, we kill off everything. Let's hope the authoritarians never have the power to drive us all into that. They would too, all the way screaming that it's all a lie, someone else's fault, and God's will and the End Times.

          • (Score: 2) by RedGreen on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:48AM

            by RedGreen (888) on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:48AM (#1333362)

            " We might extinct ourselves. Worst case, we kill off everything."

            First is highly probable, second nearly impossible even massive asteroids slamming into the earth have not managed that. There is always some forms of life that mange to make it through those mass extinction events in our past only for life to bounce back and thrive until the next one, which we are well overdue for...

            --
            "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday November 17 2023, @01:55PM (9 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday November 17 2023, @01:55PM (#1333282)

      The Repugnant party is all about descent. Family values, ethics, common human decency, all in steep descent under Repugnant rule. Thus the dissent from the decent party.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by RedGreen on Friday November 17 2023, @03:02PM (8 children)

        by RedGreen (888) on Friday November 17 2023, @03:02PM (#1333289)

        "The Repugnant party is all about descent. Family values, ethics, common human decency, all in steep descent under Repugnant rule. Thus the dissent from the decent party."

        Ah the old never argue with a moron theory as they will drag you down to their level and win by experience. Never thought of it that way as that is not the way my mind works. I tend to go with having principals, ethics, common human decency and things like this are what define you as a person and are to be stood by and fought for. Not what so many of these slimy bastards among us do with them being on a flexible payment plan from those with massive piles of cash who are in control and feeding the cash out to make all of it happen so their pile can get even bigger. While making sure they dish out as much cruelty as possible to keep them serfs in line so they do not have to do it all over again. Once the meek have risen up and slaughtered most of them for a change, for the much to few times that has happened in history. Which as time has gone on and seeing more of this fucking shit, every day, everywhere, I am totally in favor of now. They kill us well past time for self defense strike on them.

        --
        "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Friday November 17 2023, @06:57PM (3 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday November 17 2023, @06:57PM (#1333307)

          > feeding the cash out to make all of it happen so their pile can get even bigger.

          I believe this is the entire basis of our current(ly broadly enacted) economic theories: incentivize the rich to share by making them richer.

          When I was VP of a small publicly traded company we had a parade of potential investors who were willing to pump tens of millions into our company on the idea that if they got a 2:1 or better return on their "investment" they would then leave a few crumbs behind for us to operate the company on on their way out the door, no time horizon ever greater than 2 years, usually closer to 6 months. They assumed risk of loss of their initial investment, but the company assumed risk of them not clearing whatever crazy ROI target they had set, and after they achieved that ROI they continued to reap 90% of any remaining profits over target... The usual "proposed most likely timeline" looked like:

          1. company trading at a market cap of ~10M
          2. investors pump in $10-25M
          3. stock market reacts to this wonderful news and all the happy green numbers jumping up hockey-stick style on the quarterly report(s): market cap rises
          4. investors exit their position, slowly and carefully so a not to spook the market with too big a dump all at once
          5. once investors have reached their 2x ROI, or whatever they were negotiating at the time (some wanted 3x or more), then they would start to leave something like $0.10 on the dollar behind for the company until they have completely divested their shares

          Oh, and while this is all going on, the investors are holding a controlling interest in the company via various mechanisms.

          If you're ever "in the business" and you hear the term "reverse shell merger" - that's usually a sign of this kind of Shenanigans.

          They came from oil money, they came from inherited money, they came from crazy exploding small business dumps millions on them money (this was pre- .com days, now they mostly come from that). Didn't matter where their money came from, they were all looking for the same thing: more of it, by whatever barely legal means they can get it.

          We also had "good people" investors, some hippie trust fund babies then up in their 50s and 60s (dad was dead and mom nearly so, so the controls on their allowances were getting relaxed), some "angels" who made a good pile on something else looking to do something good in the world - they tended to cap out around $100K available to invest in us, we had one British Lord who was looking to reshape his prisoner tracking device (ankle bracelet) company into something more fun to discuss at parties like medical monitoring... once they learned what he was up to he was body-slammed by the majority of his board who informed him "we are in the business of making the most money possible, not making our investors feel good about their investments."

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
          • (Score: 2) by RedGreen on Friday November 17 2023, @08:49PM (1 child)

            by RedGreen (888) on Friday November 17 2023, @08:49PM (#1333322)

            "I believe this is the entire basis of our current(ly broadly enacted) economic theories: incentivize the rich to share by making them richer."

            That and the trickle down effect lie they like to go on about in conjunction with it, just like happens with piss down your leg when you wet yourself. Aerosmith had it right in that song "Eat the Rich" though the hypocrites had already gone through millions up their noses by that time so were the rich they were bitchin about in it.

            --
            "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday November 17 2023, @10:30PM

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday November 17 2023, @10:30PM (#1333334)

              Like Rush singing "they call me the workin' man" - not exactly. If you get a chance to watch Bruce Springsteen on Broadway, he's got good writers for his material... a lot about "I never did any of the things I sing about."

              --
              🌻🌻 [google.com]
          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:06PM

            by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:06PM (#1333428) Homepage Journal

            I believe this is the entire basis of our current(ly broadly enacted) economic theories:

            You say that as if economics were a real science. It isn't. See: Trickle down theory; wealth doesn't trickle down, it flows upwards, from the factory floor to the dragon's pile of gold.

            Or their statement that raising the minimum wage causes inflation, when inflation had NEVER gone up from raising the minimum wage. Big example, in 1965 the minimum wage got a 50% boost from $1.00 to $1.50, biggest minimum wage hike in history, but we didn't have inflation until 1974 when the Arab Oil Embargo hits.

            Inflation is caused by the greedy selfish rich raising prices at any excuse they get that they can get away with, something like an oil producing nation like Russia at war, or a pandemic. In 1974 the Arabs didn't even bother with an excuse and gave a big one to all the other evil rich bastards.

            Oh, that $1.50 minimum wage bought 10 McDonald's hamburgers. Those exact same burgers are now $24.90. To beat inflation, raise the minimum wage to $24.90 and tie it to inflation like my Social Security check is, but government and the rich LOVE inflation. The rich love it because it makes them richer (the "away" that value goes is away to the rich) and government loves it because it raises the working person's taxes without legislators writing a law to do so.

            --
            A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
        • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:53PM (3 children)

          by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:53PM (#1333426) Homepage Journal

          I tend to go with having principals

          I haven't had a principal since high school. Did you mean "principle"?

          But hopefully I'll be dead when the crash you refer to comes. Robert Reich points out in his book Saving Capitalism that every time the gap between rich and poor become too great, we have a depression, and the book Only Yesterday [mcgrewbooks.com] about the 1020s, written in 1933, looks like the 2020s are too similar to the decade a century earlier.

          I'll bet you didn't know that the flappers wore tattoos! That's not in Allen's book, my Dad told me that his aunts were tattooed flappers in the 1920s. I fear another Great Depression in the middle of the next Republican presidental administration; republicans are great at campaigning but suck at legislating. Grandma told me the Hoover Dam got its name because people were sick of hearing "Damned Hoover!"

          --
          A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
          • (Score: 2) by RedGreen on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:56PM (2 children)

            by RedGreen (888) on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:56PM (#1333439)

            "I haven't had a principal since high school. Did you mean "principle"?

            But hopefully I'll be dead when the crash you refer to comes. "

            Yeah a typo, who knows when it will be but it comes eventually. They have delayed it a couple of times so far but the debt accumulated from it will have to be paid eventually one way or the other. Either with massive crash to eliminate the burden through default or raising taxes and actually pay for what you have spent, a radical concept so many have seem to have lost sight of.

            --
            "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
            • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday November 22 2023, @12:16AM (1 child)

              by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Wednesday November 22 2023, @12:16AM (#1333803) Homepage Journal

              In Frederic Lewis Allen's Only Yesterday [mcgrewbooks.com] it certainly looks like that, but my Grandma McGrew, who was seventeen in 1920, said the roaring twenties only roared for the rich.

              But it wasn't the government that was too indebted, or consumers, it was investors. Read the book, it was a textbook for a 101 level college history class.

              But Robert Reich, in his book Saving Capitalism points out that before every crash, there was a large poor to rich ratio. We are headed for a crash because billionaires shouldn't exist.

              In the Allen book, almost every italicized word is a link to the book, film, or song it names.

              --
              A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
              • (Score: 2) by RedGreen on Wednesday November 22 2023, @04:09AM

                by RedGreen (888) on Wednesday November 22 2023, @04:09AM (#1333821)

                "But it wasn't the government that was too indebted, or consumers, it was investors."

                Christ lucky I was not taking a drink when reading that laughable description, the speculators got burnt when the bubble burst. Just like they always do this lie about "investors" is such a joke, I have heard it told for decades every time it happens, read about in history books going back for centuries. People are greedy fucks who jump on the latest shinny speculations all the time, just look at the current AI bubble or the shitcoin from a few years ago. They are always popping up for the new suckers to get roped in, old PT was right there is one born every minute, I would think he vastly under estimated it.

                --
                "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:42PM

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:42PM (#1333423) Homepage Journal

      anti anything good or descent

      "Decent" and "Descent" have completely different meanings. Dew knot truss yore spill checker! Since "descent" means "went down" you said exactly the opposite of what you intended to say.

      Spelling matters and spilling mutters.

      --
      A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @07:19AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @07:19AM (#1333246)

    Well, let's all thank Ronnie Reagan and everything since

    • (Score: 2) by RedGreen on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:57AM (2 children)

      by RedGreen (888) on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:57AM (#1333363)

      "Well, let's all thank Ronnie Reagan and everything since"

      Nah Eisenhower warned about it at the time in the 50s, leading up to Nixon and those around him really getting the ball rolling, Regan just jumped on the train that had already left the station ages before. Everything the Repugnants have done since then have been dedicated to the overthrow of the American system of government. Every time you hear one of them complain about things like activists judges or like it is because they are such slimy bastards they think everyone else is, physiologists call it projecting. The put their scummy lack of morals and ulterior motives onto everyone and everything.

      --
      "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:13PM (1 child)

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:13PM (#1333429) Homepage Journal

        Yes, Eisenhower warned about the "military industrial complex", and Nixon was a crook who tanked the economy as soon as he got into office, but Reagan was America's first truly Fascist president who delighted in moving your money into a rich man's bank account.

        --
        A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by RedGreen on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:51PM

          by RedGreen (888) on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:51PM (#1333437)

          "Yes, Eisenhower warned about the "military industrial complex""

          AKA the fascists of the time who were dedicated to lining their pockets with the taxpayers money that has become common place now.

          --
          "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Mojibake Tengu on Friday November 17 2023, @07:21AM

    by Mojibake Tengu (8598) on Friday November 17 2023, @07:21AM (#1333247) Journal

    Technically, it appears to me like trading a generation of people with lifetime experience accumulated for vaccine profits.

    Fine business, I can tell. Perhaps they have no more practical use for those experts.

    --
    Rust programming language offends both my Intelligence and my Spirit.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @10:13AM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @10:13AM (#1333256)

    Yesterday, I visited Urgent Care for an abscess that had developed in my neck. They asked me about depression issues, which evoked curiosity from me so I questioned back about why the interest?

    I was told it was a new thing and they were screening everyone about depression issues.

    Apparently depression is getting noticed. I thought it may be just be a ruse to convince me I needed more pills. Well, you know, one can make a lot of money selling pills to old people.

    Yet, I have also noticed that our leadership, if you can call it that, seems to have gone bat-crazy. Tax breaks for rent-seeking activities. Tax, restrictions, and regulations for small businesses. Soaring rents. Endless marketing of debt instruments. Continuous pressure to live over ones means. Too many people like me, older, and should be training the next generation in the trades, but we are not, as we fear exposure to litigation should we start a small business and hire some young kids to train them to do what we did.

    I wonder if the kids are reacting to all this fear, greed, and hate "motivators" currently bandied about the mainstream media, and are deciding to shut down? I am of the 60's era. Quite "anti-establishment". Social Injustice. We were gonna fix that. We didn't. We still have this threat of imminent doom. If it's not the Draft, it's family structure breakdown and collapsing infrastructure.

    Despair : Billy Joel : "Allentown" ?

    My first years were on a small family farm. It's only later I realized how lucky I was. Having Grandpa and Grandma around : priceless.

    That was the most valuable thing I had. And it still is.

    So many kids didn't get any.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday November 17 2023, @11:54AM

      by Thexalon (636) on Friday November 17 2023, @11:54AM (#1333263)

      It comes down to this: In the US, absolutely everything is gleefully sacrificed to the Almighty Dollar, and has been for at least 40 years now.

      For instance, why do families not live together on small family farms like you did? Because I don't know if you've noticed, but most of the small family farms no longer exist. The cost of growing / raising whatever your family farm produced has gotten so much higher than the price the farmers can get for it that they inevitably are repo'd by the bank. For example, if you try to get into chicken farming, the chicken company will force you to make massive upgrades that will put you into heavy debt, then refuse to pay you enough for your chicken to possibly get you out of it, never mind what they promised when you took on that debt. Meanwhile, Grandpa and Grandma can't stick around in their homes or with their families because Medicare will pay for a nursing home but until recently at least hasn't paid for somebody in the family to care for them at home, and every adult in the family has to have income to make ends meet so they do the only thing they can do, namely stick them in a nearby nursing home and hope they can visit and call enough to remain emotionally close.

      As for what's happened to young people: Starting around 40 years ago, working families that used to do pretty well thanks to dad's union job stopped making ends meet, because dad's union got busted and he was forced to take much lower pay. Mom went into the work force, which helped them manage for a while, but wages never kept up with productivity or prices so eventually that failed. So they tapped their main asset, their home, for cash. In 2005-2010, that ran out too. So they tapped their kids, who were already tapped out thanks to their wages being even worse. So now their kids can't afford to have kids of their own. Our economy has eaten the proverbial seed corn and then are writing think pieces about why there aren't as many babies as their used to be.

      Your youth was funded by a very different kind of government and economy than the one we live in now. And until our political class decides to abandon the mantra of "greed is good" and stop seeing the Dow Jones Industrial Average as the measurement of all that is valuable in the world, we'll continue to tear ourselves apart.

      --
      "Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 17 2023, @12:26PM (6 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 17 2023, @12:26PM (#1333265) Journal

      I was told it was a new thing and they were screening everyone about depression issues.

      Translation: "Big Pharma believes there is an untapped profit pool for anti-depression drugs."

      --
      “I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
      • (Score: 3, Touché) by PiMuNu on Friday November 17 2023, @12:46PM

        by PiMuNu (3823) on Friday November 17 2023, @12:46PM (#1333270)

        > The United States has no peers
        > Big Pharma believes there is an untapped profit pool for anti-depression drugs

        Correct.

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:24PM (4 children)

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:24PM (#1333432) Homepage Journal

        Because "It's not GUNZ, it's CRAZY PEOPLE!"

        --
        A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
        • (Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 18 2023, @07:12PM (3 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @07:12PM (#1333446) Journal

          Well, yes, of course. You are old enough to remember when every state had one or more crazy houses, and many counties ran their own. A county without a nuthouse worked in cooperation with other counties, and had access to a regional facility.

          Being old enough to remember that, you also remember when it was exposed that many of those nuthouses were reminiscent of Nazi medical experiments - people held against their will, and subjected to all manner of "treatments", including electroshock among others. Staff was abusive, people actually died if/when they got on the wrong side of staff, or at least certain members of staff.

          So, because some, or many, facilities were shown to be abusive - government just shut them all down. Threw the baby right out with the bath water. All the crazies were cut loose, to wander the streets, or whatever.

          And, that's where we are today. The crazies wander the streets, and we can't even catalog them, for fear that documenting a crazy might violate his civil rights.

          So, yes. Get the crazies under control, and you eliminate a big part of the so-called "gun problem". At the very least, when someone is judged to be incompetent, their name should be submitted to NCIS, so that they can't legally purchase a firearm. That's the very least that should be done. We can, and should do a lot more, but let us do that very least for starters.

          --
          “I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
          • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday November 22 2023, @12:34AM (2 children)

            by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Wednesday November 22 2023, @12:34AM (#1333805) Homepage Journal

            Yes, many homeless are mentally ill. Most of them are mentally ill because of their service to their country and were simply forgotten by an ungrateful nation and its uncaring government.

            Others were ensnared by an injury, followed by the Sackler's spider web, the opioids. One man I met had been a very successful man who owned three apartment houses before becoming addicted to prescription poison after an injury. He became a homeless thief, the last I knew he was on his way to prison for repeated retail theft.

            One drinking buddy of mine was a drunk who often wore a T-shirt that said "I'm not an alcoholic, I'm a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings." His drinking caused him to lose a succession of jobs and he wound up in the street before AA found him and sobered him up.

            But there are homeless people with full time jobs. The mentally ill are a small minority, but thinking they're all just crazy makes it easier to live with yourself, I guess. It just makes me sick.

            --
            A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
            • (Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 22 2023, @06:02AM (1 child)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 22 2023, @06:02AM (#1333825) Journal

              Ohhh-kay. The issue of our discussion is not homeless people, per se. I'm not dismissing them, each of their stories is tragic. But, homelessness is not the subject of our discussion. The subject is governmental infringement on all citizen's constitutionally guaranteed rights, based on the actions of a few crazy people who misuse and abuse centuries old technology - that is, firearms.

              Almost by definition, mass shooters are crazy. In point of fact, many mass shooters have been treated for mental illnesses. My whole point was, government has few provisions in place to deal with those crazy people meaningfully. Worse, government fails to act far too often when there are provisions in place. I'll repeat that we threw the babies out with the bathwater when it was brought to the public's attention that some or many crazy houses were cesspools of torture and abuse. (Parenthetically - if nuthouses attracted psycho abusive employees, did most of those psycho abusive employees switch over to law enforcement when the nuthouses were closed down?)

              It is irrational to deprive all citizens of a right, or even a privilege, based on the fact that a small number of insane, deranged, or mentally unbalanced people abuse that right or privilege.

              Let's go back to junior high school together for a moment, shall we? There is a student, let's call him Freaky Fred, who routinely smears his feces on the bathroom stall. Authorities say we can't kick him out of school, can't send him to jail, can't do much of anything with him. All that can be done is to give him detention, and that doesn't stop his conduct. The solution? Oh - we'll just close the boy's rooms. If no one can use the restroom, Freaky Fred won't be able to smear feces for the janitorial staff to clean up anymore. When Fred sneaks into the girl's restroom, and smears his feces there, then we just close the girl's restrooms as well. I ask you, is that a rational solution?

              And, yes, I chose that scenario, because infringing on constitutionally guaranteed rights has turned into a shitshow, and it can only get worse.

              This nation needs to address the real, underlying issue, and stop trying to put band-aids on arterial hemorrhages. Or, more accurately, stop applying makeup to arterial hemorrhages.

              --
              “I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
              • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday November 26 2023, @06:42PM

                by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Sunday November 26 2023, @06:42PM (#1334263) Homepage Journal

                The subject is governmental infringement on all citizen's constitutionally guaranteed rights, based on the actions of a few crazy people who misuse and abuse centuries old technology

                The subject is why Americans die so young. You pinpoint only one of those problems. The largest problem is our lack of a real health care system, leaving it up it the greedy to cure our sick and heal their injuries.

                --
                A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Friday November 17 2023, @12:56PM (7 children)

    by VLM (445) on Friday November 17 2023, @12:56PM (#1333271)

    The US was already experiencing more than 600,000 Missing Americans annually

    A very small number. We're still V A S T L Y ahead by total mass.

    Unfortunately not kidding or snarky. I'm getting to the age where I see a huge difference in health status between the fat non-athletic pill-popper high-carb types and my gym bros. You know you're getting old when people express absolute shock that you're not on any prescriptions and your test results are good. I feel like I'm about 25, no aches and pains, no weird inflammations from processed / vegetable foods, etc.

    Fat folks my age are already dead or I see them dying fast yet in slow motion. And the population is only about 75% overweight/obese, so ...

    All I really do that's "special" to stay healthy is lift weights for 3 hours per week MWF and eat as little carbs and hyperprocessed junk as realistically possible and avoid addictions (except for shitposting on SN, that I'm still addicted to). If I'm at someone's birthday party like last September, I'll eat a greasy sugary small piece of cake to fit in, but I don't buy that kind of shit for myself on a regular basis, and I certainly don't carb-load every three hours like fat Americans. How do you people get anything done if you eat a large high carb meal every three hours, resulting in 300+ blood sugar and sleepy symptoms an hour later then the blood sugar crashes two hours later and they get ravenous even though they certainly don't need the total calories. Like watching drug fiends except its white sugar not white cocaine.

    Its wild when I go from the gym where most people are athletic-ish to run some errands at Walmart or something on the way home and holy F are Americans in general fat. And that fat kills them young.

    I seem to remember interesting stats from the recent virus outbreak(s) where the fatality rate was ridiculously high over 450 pounds and ridiculous low under 250 pounds. But the fatality ratio is like that in "normal" daily life; the odds of me dying before 65 at my present weight are damn near zero based on predictions using my triglyceride and HDL and A1C numbers and my weight, but plenty of people my age just aren't going to make it to 65. Well, enjoy your oreos every two hours and multiple liters of corn syrup soda per day while you can, lol.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Friday November 17 2023, @01:02PM

      by VLM (445) on Friday November 17 2023, @01:02PM (#1333273)

      Fat folks my age are already dead or I see them dying fast yet in slow motion. And the population is only about 75% overweight/obese, so ...

      Speculation that just popped into my mind, like a sci fi novel plot: The popularity of "zombie" fiction is expressing an unconscious anxiety about fat Americans dying young.

      Their uncontrollable carb addiction is like the zombie desire to eat brains. Feed feed feed.

      "They're all dying off around a couple healthy survivors" feels like the last time I went to Walmart. The grocery store ain't much better odds.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @03:36PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2023, @03:36PM (#1333291)
      Yeah my first guess was obesity is one of the biggest contributor to the higher mortality.

      Not sure if my guess is true but it definitely ain't gonna help when so many US folk are obese.
    • (Score: 2) by istartedi on Friday November 17 2023, @04:34PM (1 child)

      by istartedi (123) on Friday November 17 2023, @04:34PM (#1333297) Journal

      Well, enjoy your oreos every two hours and multiple liters of corn syrup soda per day while you can, lol.

      Flash back to a scene of me in the grocery store. This woman asked me for help getting soda off the top shelf, because I'm tall enough to reach it and she isn't... yet she weighed more than me, probably by a wide margin. There's that part of you that wants to say "No, you're killing yourself with that shit", but you don't because it's not polite and somebody else will just get it for her anyway. It just sits there in my mind and kind of festers until the topic comes up.

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Saturday November 18 2023, @01:21AM

        by VLM (445) on Saturday November 18 2023, @01:21AM (#1333349)

        yet she weighed more than me, probably by a wide margin

        Scary thought, not to ruin your sleep tonight, but she was probably flirting with you LOL.

    • (Score: 1) by cereal_burpist on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:31AM

      by cereal_burpist (35552) on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:31AM (#1333357)

      I feel the same way. And your post reminded me of another atrocity: Every day, the drive-thru of every fast food joint is filled with vehicles. And often the line is backed up into the street.

    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:34PM (1 child)

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:34PM (#1333434) Homepage Journal

      Odd, I've been a desk worker most of my adult life, never went out of my way to do any physical excersize (my bicycle is electric), but I'm 71 and on no medications at all, and people who see me ask how I can look so young.

      I tell them I chose my grandparents wisely. My Great Uncle Oscar (Dad's uncle) started smoking cigarettes at age 12, stopped when he got a skin cancer on his lip at age 82, and died ten years later at age 92. My Grandma, his sister, lived to be 99. Dad died at age 82 from cancer; he was an electrical lineman and nobody told them transformer oil was about the most carcinogenic substance there is, all his co-workers died 20 years younger.

      On the other side of the family, my Mom made it to 92. Her sisters were all but one in her nineties, and Uncle Joe lived to 103.

      Excersize is way overrated. Genetics gets no props at all. People are fools.

      --
      A man legally forbidden from possessing a firearm is in charge of America's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice day.
      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:52PM

        by VLM (445) on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:52PM (#1333438)

        Excersize is way overrated.

        Partially. There's a pretty good book titled "The Barbell Prescription", one of those medical textbooks that's 1/6th endnotes to recent medical journal articles, to summarize about 300 pages of biochemistry, several critical blood biochemistry markers seem to strongly depend on the ratio of muscle to fat in the body, so you can improve that either by diet lowering body fat or exercise increasing muscle mass. I think the MD/PHD researcher who wrote it was Dr Sullivan but perhaps not.

        I suppose it makes practical sense, if someone eats a shitty high carb diet then when they binge if they have more muscle the muscle can "soak up" the glucose as muscle tends to do, instead of overworking their kidneys to pee it out or explode their trigs leading to fat. The fructose is still going to be a gut-punch to the liver but, its better, at least.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DannyB on Friday November 17 2023, @10:43PM (1 child)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 17 2023, @10:43PM (#1333336) Journal

    Only in the US. American exceptionalism at its worst. Capitalism run amok. Corporate Greed. Mix it with health care.

    The other 22 of 23 developed countries have figured out how to make national healthcare work. It's not perfect. But all of those countries have higher life expectancy than the US. And if you go to the ER, the last thing on your mind is that you might go bankrupt.

    Drug prices are higher than anywhere else in the world. Why is that? (because profits are the metric!) And should it be so?

    We all know this to be true.

    --
    There can be only one cable TV Network: USABCNNBCBSyFy
    • (Score: 2) by RedGreen on Saturday November 18 2023, @06:08AM

      by RedGreen (888) on Saturday November 18 2023, @06:08AM (#1333364)

      " And if you go to the ER, the last thing on your mind is that you might go bankrupt."

      Nah it is just why am I am waiting to see a Doctor for twelve hours with no end in sight. Mind you when I had actual emergency and would have been dead without treatment I got right in and had it fixed, that is the exception not the rule around here. They do as little as possible while always selling the weasel words we are doing this or that to fix it. I have heard that one all my life and it is still the same, people dying because the government does not give a shit if they do, it saves them cash in the long run.

      --
      "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
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