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posted by hubie on Saturday November 18 2023, @01:43PM   Printer-friendly

https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/15/righttorepair_ftc_petition/

iFixit and the Public Interest Research Group (PIRG) have teamed up to go straight to the US Federal Trade Commission with a rulemaking petition urging it to implement national right-to-repair rules.

The petition [PDF], sent to the FTC on Tuesday, calls on the Commission to implement new regulations under its Section 5 powers, which gives the agency enforcement authority over "​​unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce."

"The FTC has been a strong ally in protecting our right to fix everything we own," said Director of Sustainability for iFixit, Liz Chamberlain. "But for the FTC to be fully empowered to fix the things stopping us from fixing things, they need new rules. This petition for rulemaking aims to give the FTC the power they need to ensure that we can all fix all our things."

Under the FTC's Section 5 authority, PIRG noted, the FTC could require that consumable components and parts that commonly fail are made readily available through a product's lifespan, ensure consumers have the right to repair devices how and where they see fit, that key functions remain enabled after a manufacturer ends support for a product, and that independent repair shops aren't required to share customer data with manufacturers.


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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 18 2023, @02:09PM (27 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @02:09PM (#1333388) Journal

    We are seeing a problem with the ATF making rules as they go along. The ATF is being weaponized against gun dealers and gun owners by the current administration, with sometimes devastating effects.

    Agencies, such as the FTC and the ATF have administrative rule making authority. That much cannot be denied them - it's their job to create forms, issue instructions on how to file those forms, establish time limits, etc ad nauseum. It's not their job to create new laws. The authority to create law lies with the legislative branch of government, not with the executive branch.

    In this case, it is Congress duty and obligation to write laws that enshrine the right to repair in United States Code.

    No one wants to see executive agencies usurping the authority of congress, do they? Or, do we prefer to be governed by bureaucrats who are appointed with each passing administration? We saw Trump appoint an FCC chief who was hostile to everyone except the Telcos. We've seen Biden appoint an ATF chief who has spent his life lobbying for gun control. This kind of flip-flopping from one administration to the next really sucks. Congress needs to write laws that will be binding on all future administrations. Laws that will be upheld by the Supreme Court. Laws, not executive edicts.

    --
    ‘Never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals’
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2023, @03:28PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2023, @03:28PM (#1333398)

      We are seeing a problem with the ATF all Executive branch agencies making rules as they go along.

      FTFY

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by mcgrew on Saturday November 18 2023, @03:34PM (11 children)

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday November 18 2023, @03:34PM (#1333400) Homepage Journal

      The ATF is being weaponized against gun dealers and gun owners by the current administration, with sometimes devastating effects.

      Without a citation I'm calling bullshit. Where did this "information" come from, the NRA? They need to crack down on gun dealers and private persons who supply weapons to criminals for whom they are illegal. It should call for prison time rather than tiny fines. They're not even lifting gun dealers' licenses for repeatedly igoring and breaking the law!

      "But criminals don't follow the law!" That's because the unindicted criminals supplying weapons don't have their right to buy weapons removed. Felons should not be armed; the Constitution says convicted criminals can be denied rights.

      It's not their job to create new laws.

      Yet you don't even have an example of them "creating new laws", let alone a citation. Again, I'm calling you a bald faced LIAR or too stupid to properly communicate.

      --
      mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
      • (Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:08PM (5 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:08PM (#1333410) Journal

        They need to crack down on gun dealers and private persons who supply weapons to criminals for whom they are illegal. It should call for prison time rather than tiny fines. They're not even lifting gun dealers' licenses for repeatedly igoring and breaking the law!

        Well, obviously you've heard the talking points, I'm surprised you haven't heard the results of Biden's edicts.

        https://www.gunowners.org/zero-tolerance-the-biden-admin-is-allegedly-shutting-down-gun-stores-for-minor-clerical-errors/ [gunowners.org]
        https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/nov/25/atf-accused-perverting-laws-scheme-shut-down-gun-s/ [washingtontimes.com]
        https://www.nssf.org/articles/president-bidens-war-on-firearm-industry-reaches-new-peak/ [nssf.org]

        Show me any other business or industry where the business can be shut down for misspelling a state or city name? Or for putting a bit of information in the wrong block on the form. Not even the military sends a member to court martial, or even Captain's Mast (office hours for other services) for simple clerical errors.

        Please stop parroting the administration's talking points. I really think that you're smarter than that.

        --
        ‘Never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals’
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by janrinok on Saturday November 18 2023, @07:34PM (4 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @07:34PM (#1333448) Journal

          Your first and last sources are not exactly neutral now, are they? What would you expect them to claim?

          The middle source is quoting a Texas gunshop of accusing ATF of what you claim - but that was a year ago. Surely you would prefer to show us where the allegation was supported by the court and the ATF was found guilty. What's that - you can't find it? No surprise there then.

          --
          I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 18 2023, @08:04PM (1 child)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @08:04PM (#1333453) Journal

            Can you find a "neutral" source of information?

            but that was a year ago

            Oh, was there a change of administrations in the past year, that I missed? I was asked for a citation, I provided one. Of course I can find more, but some people whine when I present them with a wall of text.

            You may prefer to browse the documentation of all revocations https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/enhanced-regulatory-enforcement-policy [atf.gov]

            From one case,

            Based off the following inspection findings of Pink Elephant Crun & Pawn Inc, AS ~(tsgsll recommends Revocation of the Federal Firearms License:
            27 CFR 478.99(c) - In[_ _ J instances. the Licensee transferred a firearm to a purchaser after receiving a NICS Denied response.
            In response to this finding, the Licensee stated they had no idea "how this happened". RP, Mr. Fitzer, hypothesized that someone may have filed the Denied ATF Fonns
            4473 in the wrong place, and an employee did not look at the Denied response prior to transferring the firearm(s).
            In L.J instances, initial NICS Delayed responses were provided, prior to receiving a NICS Denied response. Thus, the Licensee would have had known prior to the
            transfer of the firearms, that the persons were prohibited from possessing firearms.
            CFR 478.102(a) - In four (4) instances, the licensee accepted out of state CC'DW pennits in lieu of conducting a NICS check. During a previous compliance inspection
            in 2019. the Licensee was cited for this same violation on two (2) instances. In 2019. the Licensee stated, "we didn't know we couldn't accept out-of-state concealed
            carry permits" (in lieu of NICS checks), and that they would only accept Kentucky (CCDW) permits in the future. Based off the current inspection findings, the
            Licensee knew to accept Kentucky CCDW permits only, yet failed to do so.

            Perhaps this licensee deserved to have his license revoked, however, I want to key on one point: "In L.J instances, initial NICS Delayed responses were provided, prior to receiving a NICS Denied response. Thus, the Licensee would have had known prior to the transfer of the firearms, that the persons were prohibited from possessing firearms." That claim is utterly false. A NICS Delayed sometimes results in a NICS Denied, however, the LAW (not ATF policy, but the LAW) requires the dealer to transfer the firearm after xx number of days, UNLESS he gets a NICS Denied. The xx number of days varies somewhat from state to state, but the point is, no dealer should be raked over the coals if he has observed whatever requirement exists for a waiting period.

            If you don't care to look at any cases, just skim down the first page without clicking links. Note the number of revocations from one year to the next. It's clear from those numbers alone that the ATF has stepped up it's efforts to revoke licenses. Scroll a little further down, and see the list of "voluntarily surrendered". Many of those are instances of ATF agents bullying a dealer into "voluntarily" surrendering his license. They really like those, because they need not do any more paperwork to justify the revocation.

            If you don't believe your lying eyes, you might look at Biden's campaign promises and ongoing rhetoric about outlawing guns. Yes, he has weaponized the ATF against people who exercise their 2A rights.

            --
            ‘Never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals’
            • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Sunday November 19 2023, @07:45AM

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 19 2023, @07:45AM (#1333485) Journal

              I simply stated that the example you quoted was an allegation - not a proven case. Your response does not provide any evidence that the court agreed with the allegation, even a year after it happened.

              I haven't argued that ATF are not doing what you claimed, just that your method of choosing sources is poor and unconvincing. Next time, why not quote what somebody told you down at your local bar, or something that you dreamt. They would each have the same credibility as the 3 sources that you first quoted.

              --
              I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
          • (Score: 1, Disagree) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 18 2023, @09:47PM (1 child)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @09:47PM (#1333456) Journal

            Oh, second reply.

            Surely you would prefer to show us where the allegation was supported by the court and the ATF was found guilty. What's that - you can't find it? No surprise there then.

            https://www.gunowners.org/goa-victory-atf-backs-down-on-license-revocation-for-north-dakota-gun-store-who-had-filed-suit/ [gunowners.org]

            FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

            September 15, 2023

            Washington, D.C. — Gun Owners of America (GOA) and the Gun Owners Foundation (GOF) are excited to announce that the ATF has backed down from attempting to revoke the FFL license of Morehouse Enterprises in Valley City, North Dakota.

            Previously, GOA and GOF had filed a lawsuit in defense of the gun retailer, which does business as Bridge City Ordnance. The company was facing the loss of its license due to minor paperwork errors, which under the new Biden “Zero Tolerance” policy, was grounds for revocation.

            Previous ATF policy dictated that warnings and required corrective action were appropriate measures for first time errors, and only after that could license revocation proceedings be initiated if improvement was not demonstrated.

            It has become quite obvious to the average individual that the ATF conducted the “random” inspection of Bridge City Ordnance right after the company joined GOA and GOF in a separate lawsuit challenging the ATF’s Ghost Gun Frame and Receiver Rule last summer.

            Litigation is ongoing in both cases.

            Erich Pratt, GOA’s Senior Vice President, issued the following statement:

            “The ATF kicked a hornet’s nest when they thought they could send a message to gun dealers who dared to challenge their illegal actions in court. In response, GOA and GOF stepped in, and we made clear they were about to engage in a losing battle. We are thrilled for Bridge City Ordnance and hope this encourages ATF to revisit their ‘zero tolerance’ policy.”

            GOA spokesmen are available for interviews. Gun Owners of America is a nonprofit grassroots lobbying organization dedicated to protecting the right to keep and bear arms without compromise. GOA represents over two million members and activists. For more information, visit GOA’s Press Center.

            That's one single case, true. A lot of people just don't have the money, the nerve, or the stamina to fight a government agency. GOA picks and chooses among cases to represent, they can't take on every case. But, this case was won, while other cases simply haven't been fought.

            But, the legal war isn't confined to the ATF. Blue states think they can sidestep or make an end-run around the law, and the courts. There are quite a number of battles that are ongoing, and other battles that have been won. https://www.gunowners.org/?s=GOA+victory [gunowners.org]

            --
            ‘Never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals’
            • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday November 19 2023, @07:51AM

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 19 2023, @07:51AM (#1333486) Journal

              Citing a different case does not make your the previous case that you quoted more convincing - it remains an unproven allegation.

              You are arguing against something I haven't said. You should have chosen a better example in your first comment. You just grabbed the first thing that you had available and it did not support what you were saying. That you have another thousand better examples does not change the credibility of the first one.

              --
              I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
      • (Score: 2, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:15PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:15PM (#1333414) Journal

        Yet you don't even have an example of them "creating new laws", let alone a citation.

        https://www.ammoland.com/2023/11/federal-judge-stays-entire-atf-pistol-brace-rule/ [ammoland.com]
        https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/politics/bump-stocks-guns-appeals-court/index.html [cnn.com]
        You should like a citation going back to Bloomberg, the HMFIC of unconstitutional gun congrol: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/litigation/gun-owners-challenge-doj-rule-expanding-machinegun-definition [bloomberglaw.com]

        --
        ‘Never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals’
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by crafoo on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:42PM (2 children)

        by crafoo (6639) on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:42PM (#1333424)

        "That's because the unindicted criminals supplying weapons don't have their right to buy weapons removed."

        That's funny. I assume this is a joke? On the off chance it is not A) rights do not exist. the only "rights" that exist are those you are prepared to defend with immediate violence, and B) criminals aren't buying guns from gun shops or federal firearms licensed private dealers.

        • (Score: 2) by number11 on Saturday November 18 2023, @06:19PM (1 child)

          by number11 (1170) on Saturday November 18 2023, @06:19PM (#1333442)

          the only "rights" that exist are those you are prepared to defend with immediate violence

          In the US, adult citizens have the right to vote. So you're saying that someone who has been removed from the voter rolls, should be able to go to the polling place with a weapon and force their vote to be accepted?

          Sounds reasonable. In my state they won't need the weapon. If they're not currently in prison (which would make it hard to show up at the polling place) or under court-approved guardianship, and can identify themselves and their address, they can vote.

          • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by crafoo on Saturday November 18 2023, @07:41PM

            by crafoo (6639) on Saturday November 18 2023, @07:41PM (#1333450)

            you are under the illusion that you have the right to vote. you do not. the only vote that matters is money and you do not have enough to make a real difference. Do you think your paper or electronic button press is a real vote? you are cattle.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2023, @02:36AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2023, @02:36AM (#1333476)

        That's because the unindicted criminals

        Unindicted criminals are called citizens.
        You need to be convicted before you can be called a criminal.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by tekk on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:15PM (3 children)

      by tekk (5704) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:15PM (#1333413)

      > In this case, it is Congress duty and obligation to write laws that enshrine the right to repair in United States Code.

      Congress wrote the laws which empowered the ATF and FTC (and FCC, and FDA, and god knows how many other TLAs,) to create law when they created them.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:18PM (2 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:18PM (#1333416) Journal

        Well then, that's a nice escapist explanation. "Congress created the (whichever agency) so it can't be wrong." By extension, since Congress has passed the War Powers Acts, the President can never be wrong for attacking someone, somewhere, for whatever reason. Want to dive into all the reasons it was wrong to invade Iraq again?

        --
        ‘Never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals’
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:17PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:17PM (#1333430)

          Want to dive into all the reasons it was wrong to invade Iraq again?

          For all the same reasons it was also wrong to invade Afghanistan I'm sure. But it's all moot since might makes right anyway.

          • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 18 2023, @07:16PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2023, @07:16PM (#1333447) Journal

            I would say that you are mistaken when you say "all the same reasons". We had an actual casus belli against Afghanistan, and a punitive campaign could easily have been justified. The 20 year occupation was certainly not justified. Please let us distinguish between one campaign and another, and consider each on it's own merits.

            --
            ‘Never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals’
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by sjames on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:29PM (4 children)

      by sjames (2882) on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:29PM (#1333418) Journal

      Ideally, yes. But currently Congress is so embroiled in a kindergartner like battle over who is a "tree head" and who is a "pine cone head" that they can't even manage to pass a budget, much less effective legislation to return to the principle that when you buy something it belongs to you.

      • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:35PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:35PM (#1333421)

        This is the sort of thing that happens when a significant portion of lawmakers don't even know the difference between a man and a woman. The dumbing down of America didn't exempt either congress, or voters.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:48PM

          by Thexalon (636) on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:48PM (#1333436)

          Or maybe they're mature enough that they don't think people's wee-wees have anything to do with whether they should be able to fix a truck without breaking copyright law.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 2) by crafoo on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:47PM

        by crafoo (6639) on Saturday November 18 2023, @04:47PM (#1333425)

        what, you don't like seeing actual representative democracy in action? Instead you're happy to childishly pout and call the process names when it doesn't adhere to some utopian ideal you made up in your head?

        the so called Republican Party was infiltrated and subverted by Straussians and Southern Democrats giving rise to the neo-conservatives which put Regan, Clinton (team up with the neo-liberals for another big fail), and the Bushes in office. This decaying, falling and failed political structure is collapsing now. There are going to be ugly, dirty transitional pains as the new right exerts it's power.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:22PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2023, @05:22PM (#1333431)

        It's only natural. Congress is a mere reflection of your typical dysfunctional American family.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by istartedi on Saturday November 18 2023, @10:27PM (1 child)

      by istartedi (123) on Saturday November 18 2023, @10:27PM (#1333459) Journal

      Yes and no. Congress has the power to delegate authority to agencies (and retract it) and this was unchallenged until a recent 6-3 ruling [npr.org] at SCOTUS.

      Whether or not right-to-repair falls under the Court's newly created "major questions" doctrine remains to be seen.

      Congress could get out ahead of this by explicitly passing right-to-repair and/or specifying that the agency may write regulations that ensure customers will have that ability.

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
      • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2023, @03:00AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2023, @03:00AM (#1333478)

        From your link:

        Justice Elena Kagan, in a furious dissent, said essentially that the Court is making up new rules that contradict nearly a century of regulatory law. The text of the Clean Air Act, she said, clearly anticipates that the EPA will have to deal with new problems and uses broad language to allow that. The Court majority, she says, "does not have a clue about how to address climate change...yet it appoints itself, instead of congress or the expert agency...the decision-maker on climate policy. I cannot think of many things more frightening."

        Justice Elena Kagan is not fit to be a local judge, let alone a Supreme. It is not the Supremes' job to fight climate change, it is their job to make sure that both the Government and lesser courts operate within the Law. The decision should be based on the Law, not on climate demagoguery. She does not even understand the difference.

        If it's truly necessary, Congress has the power to do it. If Congress does not think it's necessary then she does not get to over-rule that by making laws from the bench.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2023, @07:07PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2023, @07:07PM (#1333527)

      How is there even any guns left? I thought you guys were saying how Obama was going to take all the guns away.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by VLM on Saturday November 18 2023, @06:03PM (1 child)

    by VLM (445) on Saturday November 18 2023, @06:03PM (#1333440)

    made readily available through a product's lifespan

    key functions remain enabled after a manufacturer ends support for a product

    Hyperregulation and central control lead to various redefinition games. They're not going to change their profitable business model, they're just going to redefine what "product lifespan" is, and redefine "key functions".

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by number11 on Saturday November 18 2023, @06:26PM

      by number11 (1170) on Saturday November 18 2023, @06:26PM (#1333443)

      Then we need to remove repair data from copyright/DMCA protection. The purpose of copyright was to prevent one party from verbatim copying another party's writings and selling them as their own. There is no justification for data required to operate or repair something to be covered, except in the eyes of thieving megacorps.

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