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posted by hubie on Monday April 01, @09:03PM   Printer-friendly
from the you-can-go-your-own-way-and-call-it-another-lonely-day dept.

China blocks use of Intel and AMD chips in government computers, FT reports By Reuters:

(Reuters) -China has introduced guidelines to phase out U.S. microprocessors from Intel (NASDAQ:INTC) and AMD (NASDAQ:AMD) from government personal computers and servers, the Financial Times reported on Sunday.

The procurement guidance also seeks to sideline Microsoft (NASDAQ:MSFT)'s Windows operating system and foreign-made database software in favour of domestic options, the report said.

Government agencies above the township level have been told to include criteria requiring "safe and reliable" processors and operating systems when making purchases, the newspaper said.

China's industry ministry in late December issued a statement with three separate lists of CPUs, operating systems and centralised database deemed "safe and reliable" for three years after the publication date, all from Chinese companies, Reuters checks showed.

[...] The U.S. has been aiming to boost domestic semiconductor output and reduce reliance on China and Taiwan with the Biden administration's 2022 CHIPS and Science Act.

It is designed to bolster U.S. semiconductors and contains financial aid for domestic production with subsidies for production of advanced chips.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday April 01, @09:05PM (4 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday April 01, @09:05PM (#1351240)
    • (Score: 2) by epitaxial on Tuesday April 02, @03:57AM (2 children)

      by epitaxial (3165) on Tuesday April 02, @03:57AM (#1351301)

      What do any of those events have to do with the x86 instruction set?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by RamiK on Tuesday April 02, @08:07AM

        by RamiK (1813) on Tuesday April 02, @08:07AM (#1351315)

        What do any of those events have to do with the x86 instruction set?

        What does the x86 ISA has to do with the ban?

        17 兆芯ZX-E KX-U6780A/KH-37800D/KX-6640MA/KX-6640A 上海兆芯集成电路股份有限公司 I级
        18 兆芯ZX-D KX-U5580 上海兆芯集成电路股份有限公司 I级

        ( http://www.itsec.gov.cn/aqkkcp/cpgg/202312/t20231226_162074.html [itsec.gov.cn] list of approved devices naming Zhaoxin (兆芯) x86 models like KX-U6780A [tomshardware.com] )

        --
        compiling...
      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday April 02, @11:22AM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday April 02, @11:22AM (#1351330)

        U.S. based R&D.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 4, Funny) by DannyB on Tuesday April 02, @02:48PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 02, @02:48PM (#1351348) Journal

      The links you provided seem to indicate an intent to imply that China has some concern about US made chips and operating systems having an adverse affect on China.

      That is not the case at all.

      The obvious reason, and one that should be obvious to even US citizens, is that China is banning two hideously evil things: Intel and Microsoft.

      A better takeaway message is that China does not want evil things in their country.

      Therefore, of course, Google is still okay.

      --
      To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Mojibake Tengu on Monday April 01, @10:14PM (4 children)

    by Mojibake Tengu (8598) on Monday April 01, @10:14PM (#1351249) Journal

    Applying trade sanctions on anyone who has available workforce, adequate knowledge base a strong research potential is just plain stupid strategy since the ancient times. The result was predictable.

    Though in this case, core reason for political decision is not economy pressure but digital sovereignty: hardware support of government mandatory encryption algorithms.
    Sometimes, the best is just worst.

    --
    Respect Authorities. Know your social status. Woke responsibly.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday April 01, @10:26PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday April 01, @10:26PM (#1351250)

      >core reason for political decision is not economy pressure but digital sovereignty: hardware support of government mandatory encryption algorithms.

      Is it really digital sovereignty for enforcement of government mandated (presumably backdoored) encryption algorithms, or the more basic digital sovereignty of keeping foreign states' backdoors off of domestic government servers?

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by SomeRandomGeek on Monday April 01, @10:31PM (2 children)

      by SomeRandomGeek (856) on Monday April 01, @10:31PM (#1351251)

      I don't think this was caused by US trade sanctions. Rather, the US and China both woke up at the same moment and realized that modern war fighting relies on a steady stream of fresh modern microchips for all the fancy new weapons. And the supply chain for those chips is truly global, although centered in Taiwan. So, the US realized that they couldn't make missiles to shoot at China unless China sold them the parts. And China realized that they couldn't make missiles to shoot at the US unless the US sold them the parts. And now, the semiconductor industry is in the process of disentangling supply chains so that all of the major players will still be able to make missiles if all of the major players go to war with each other.

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday April 02, @02:49PM (1 child)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 02, @02:49PM (#1351349) Journal

        Except for Russia.

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        To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
        • (Score: 2) by Unixnut on Tuesday April 02, @03:18PM

          by Unixnut (5779) on Tuesday April 02, @03:18PM (#1351352)

          Except for Russia.

          Quite, they seemed to have always kept their silicon fabrication for military/sensitive use in-house, so they own the entire supply chain for production of missiles etc...

          Unfortunately they never put much effort into the commercial side, leaving that for the world market to fill which is now causing them problems. Most likely that will eventually be filled with Chinese chips as well.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Gaaark on Monday April 01, @11:26PM (14 children)

    by Gaaark (41) on Monday April 01, @11:26PM (#1351260) Journal

    So the Chinese will have computers and OS (like linux based OpenKylin) that are harder to hack into (crack), while the U.S. keeps using the data sieve called Windows.

    Great.

    U.S.: "What's mine say?"
    China: "Sweet! What's mine say?"
    U.S.: "Connection refused. What's mine say?"
    China: "Sweet! What's mine say?"
    U.S. "Connection refused. What's mine say?" .............................................

    *** Actually hoping this will make Windows go away and help 'alternate' OS's rise.

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by driverless on Tuesday April 02, @10:10AM (12 children)

      by driverless (4770) on Tuesday April 02, @10:10AM (#1351322)

      That was my first reaction as well, China's made the move to secure its government systems by getting Windows off them, will the US follow?

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by turgid on Tuesday April 02, @01:20PM (10 children)

        by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 02, @01:20PM (#1351339) Journal

        I'm sure Microsoft is working on a special All-American Linux for that very purpose.

        • (Score: 5, Funny) by Gaaark on Tuesday April 02, @04:09PM

          by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday April 02, @04:09PM (#1351362) Journal

          The Rolling Stones need to come up with a song called "Start me up.... after the obligatory reboot... again. And again. You'd make a dead OS crash"

          Microsoft could call their All-American Linux "MAGA": Microsoft American Gags Again"

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Freeman on Tuesday April 02, @04:23PM (8 children)

          by Freeman (732) on Tuesday April 02, @04:23PM (#1351363) Journal
          --
          Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
          • (Score: 5, Funny) by Gaaark on Tuesday April 02, @05:53PM (7 children)

            by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday April 02, @05:53PM (#1351383) Journal

            But do they also sell pails for me to vomit into?

            I'd rather never use a computer again than install linux on top of windows.

            Like putting an Olympic athlete on the shoulders of a fat kid: "Look at me, ma! I'm on top of the world!.... I can do the 100 metre run in 3 hours and 45 minutes, as long as this fat kid doesn't fall flat on his face, that is! Woooo!"

            --
            --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
            • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Freeman on Tuesday April 02, @07:18PM (6 children)

              by Freeman (732) on Tuesday April 02, @07:18PM (#1351396) Journal

              Personally, I keep thinking "Where's the punch line and/or hidden dagger?" every time I'm reminded that Windows has a "Linux subsystem" at all. My thoughts are that it may open you to both Windows and Linux vulnerabilities, but the moment you insert Windows into the equation, the Linux vulnerabilities seem to be less of an issue. I'm not in a decision making position for most anything at work though and having a wife+kid makes tinker time much smaller than it used to be. Also, why not just ditch Microsoft? Kiddo got Linux on the new machine and I'm pretty sure I'm going that route with my next install as well. Ah, looking into the face of the Windows 10 EOL (Oct. 2025), so probably sooner than later is better. I'm quite happy to ditch the advertisment/malware (Live Tiles/Candy Crush/etc) pushing that Windows has done in recent years. As well as all of the additional "phone home" stuff that they've baked into Win10+11.

              --
              Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
              • (Score: 3, Informative) by Gaaark on Tuesday April 02, @07:41PM (3 children)

                by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday April 02, @07:41PM (#1351398) Journal

                Check out the humble bundle: there's a bunch of kids games that will run on steam with, i think, an 'experimental proton' tweak (not sure how old 'kiddo' is, lol.

                https://www.humblebundle.com/games/spring-into-learning-complete-humongous-collection [humblebundle.com]

                --
                --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
                • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday April 02, @09:33PM (2 children)

                  by Freeman (732) on Tuesday April 02, @09:33PM (#1351413) Journal

                  That's an interesting bundle, I know I was "too old" when they first came out, but I remember seeing them and playing some of them. I doubt I ever completed any of them, but they are interesting games. I think the Kelp Seeds and Saves the Zoo variants were the ones I played.

                  --
                  Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
                  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday April 02, @10:35PM (1 child)

                    by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday April 02, @10:35PM (#1351422) Journal

                    My daughter used to have a couple of the Putt-Putt games. Bought the bundle for my son because they're all (i think?) point and click games. My son's CP makes his fingers too stiff and awkward for using the up and down keys, etc, with any speed, but he's pretty good with a mouse.

                    --
                    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
                    • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday April 03, @01:38PM

                      by Freeman (732) on Wednesday April 03, @01:38PM (#1351484) Journal

                      As far as I know they're all the point-click adventure style games.

                      --
                      Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
              • (Score: 4, Funny) by driverless on Wednesday April 03, @01:47AM (1 child)

                by driverless (4770) on Wednesday April 03, @01:47AM (#1351437)

                That'd make a good marketing tagline: "WSL: For when just the Windows vulnerabilities by themselves aren't enough".

                OK, not very catchy, maybe someone else can come up with a better version.

                • (Score: 3, Funny) by Freeman on Wednesday April 03, @01:47PM

                  by Freeman (732) on Wednesday April 03, @01:47PM (#1351486) Journal

                  That's what the MBAs are for, let them come up with the catchy jingle. They gotta be good for something, right?

                  --
                  Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
      • (Score: 4, Funny) by DannyB on Tuesday April 02, @02:56PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 02, @02:56PM (#1351350) Journal

        Didn't China already have Red Flag Linux?

        But then did that close down in 2014? [wikipedia.org]

        Maybe they concocted a diabolical plan from their secret lair to cause a global pandemic and then get evil US government brain control microchips in the untasted vaccines!!?

        ag;lh2k2;3l;jlkj 532;

        NO CARRIER

        --
        To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday April 02, @06:38PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday April 02, @06:38PM (#1351391) Journal

      China would've preferred to stick with Windows 'cause now they've got to build that sieve themselves!

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by lush7 on Tuesday April 02, @12:49AM (4 children)

    by lush7 (18543) on Tuesday April 02, @12:49AM (#1351276)

    ...For my two cents, this is disheartening. I'd much rather us, globally, as human citizens, working towards greater integration with each-other in a distributed sense, rather than going down the path of each individual nation, upon reaching a certain technological milestone, seeking to create it's own computing architecture.

    I know there is the tit for tat of game theory, and all the greatest minds and leaders, and their positions and findings and what have you...

    ...but, I'd much rather be in a world where we can trust our neighbors, share and use the same silicon, perhaps even work on it together.

    Open architectures, transparent silicon, and trust.

    My two cents...

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by loonycyborg on Tuesday April 02, @01:24AM (2 children)

      by loonycyborg (6905) on Tuesday April 02, @01:24AM (#1351278)

      In longer term it can actually be advantageous because requiring national chip industry would give a chance to more alternative projects to exist without being crowded out by global incumbents. Even if most of them will be barely good enough to service government needs it's still more chance for more people to get actual experience. It's kinda like biological evolution, it goes ahead by trying a lot of things even though most of them are random mutations and thus suck. But without this random trying the minuscule worthy(for very subjective definition of it) things won't even have a chance to exist.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by lush7 on Tuesday April 02, @01:55AM (1 child)

        by lush7 (18543) on Tuesday April 02, @01:55AM (#1351281)

        I can see that and agree with that, in the distributed sense of things, evolution wise; that's kind of what I was saying. But, the heart of it, as I understand it, is distrust among nations. Avoidable or not, I think that's what I consider the disappointing part.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Gaaark on Tuesday April 02, @04:29PM

          by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday April 02, @04:29PM (#1351365) Journal

          And this is why the world needs to drop Microsoft products: lack of trust.

          As you said, "Open" is the operative word. No 'closed' architecture or software.

          China is actually taking a bolder, smarter step forward towards the future by embracing linux (although, will they keep OpenKylin 'open' is the buggering question).

          Embracing Windows is just stupid: it's been hacked to pieces (funnily(?), Windows is more 'open' than linux because of all of it's holes and hacks) and it's a really shoddy product.

          If 'we' can get software companies to write more software for linux (and this may actually happen with China's embracing linux, so golf clap to them), the world will be a better place.

          Drop this shit called Windows, with so many holes and back-doors in it, and move into the future: Open products, not 'Closed but Open to hackers and government agencies' products.

          distrust among nations

          I trust wife and most of my family, but could i be sold out by any of them? Sure, when you actually think about it.
          So, can you trust your family/neighbour/neighbouring nation/nation leaders? When you really think about it.... no. They could be hiding your down-fall from you, biding their time.

          Trust is hard earned, and one thing i've learned from the whole English Canada vs. French Quebec (which translates to everywhere in the world) is: don't trust politicians to fix things. Get people with brains together, pour the beer/wine/? and get ordinary people talking. Politicians will f*ck you every time.

          Politicians are like social media: they're there to stir the pot and provide bread and circuses to distract you from the guy behind the curtain.
          They try to get you to pick a side and blow the trumpet for 'my side'.
          Ordinary people can talk without the agenda.

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by crafoo on Tuesday April 02, @05:27AM

      by crafoo (6639) on Tuesday April 02, @05:27AM (#1351310)

      No thank you. I would much, much prefer a strong nation with a strong centralized government looking out for the people of the nation rather than be ruled by cosmopolitan financiers, globalist bureaucrats, and coin-clipping middlemen owing no allegiance to any nation. I'll take Hamilton's and Washington's original vision: strength, a jealous and wary eye towards foreign interlopers, strong tariffs promoting industry and rising wages at home.

  • (Score: 2) by jb on Tuesday April 02, @05:00AM (6 children)

    by jb (338) on Tuesday April 02, @05:00AM (#1351309)

    Businesses pretty much have to buy whatever CPUs, of those available, have the best price/performance ratio, which unfortunately is i386/amd64 for most applications (except where very low power consumption is a core requirement, but we only tend to see that in the embedded space). We all *know* that sparc64, mips64, etc. are far better designed, but most of the time we can't buy them without pricing our own end products out of the market. The only way to rid the market of insecure-by-design rubbish like i386 & amd64 is to ban them.

    I'm no fan of China's government re almost anything else, but on this occasion they seem to have made a sensible decision.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by turgid on Tuesday April 02, @09:30AM (5 children)

      by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 02, @09:30AM (#1351320) Journal

      SPARC64 and MIPS64 are effectively dead except in tiny niches. SPARC was hamstrung by its fixed sized register windows. It was fine I the 32-bit 50MHz days. MIPS was better but investment stopped over 20 years ago. Fujitsu made 64-bit SPARC fast, but in incredibly expensive niches. Internally AMD64 (and intel) is super efficient these days. The CPU wars are over.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 02, @10:13AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 02, @10:13AM (#1351323)

        LoongArch is a modern MIPS-ish ISA with pretty high performance, but good luck getting your hands on a board outside China.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by driverless on Tuesday April 02, @10:20AM (3 children)

        by driverless (4770) on Tuesday April 02, @10:20AM (#1351324)

        MIPS investment only stopped in the west, China kept going with Loongson. It now his its own claimed ISA, but it's really just a fork of MIPS64.

        And for the inevitable "but they're nowhere near as fast as AMD and Intel chips", for most government use they don't need to be, a 20-year-old CPU is just fine for email, a word processor, a spreadsheet, and a web browser to receive what Xinhua wants to tell you. WPS Office for example doesn't give any real CPU requirements but you do need a massive 2GB RAM like a computer from the early 2000s, which Windows 10 won't even load into despite Microsoft's claims (you need at least 4GB just to have enough room for the OS to sit there doing nothing).

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by turgid on Tuesday April 02, @05:06PM (2 children)

          by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 02, @05:06PM (#1351371) Journal

          RISC V will dominate eventually, in the same way that Linux eventually dominated the unix market.

          • (Score: 2) by Mojibake Tengu on Tuesday April 02, @06:44PM (1 child)

            by Mojibake Tengu (8598) on Tuesday April 02, @06:44PM (#1351392) Journal

            RISC-V/64 trembles under load. I am not happy about that.

            One dubious factor is under-engineered coherency and either insufficiency or total lack of atomic primitives, depending on realized core.
            That affects existing ported code badly, things which work perfectly under RV64 software emulator hosted on amd64 crash badly on real RV64 hardware.

            So, it is somewhere where Athlon64 has been in early 2000's. RISC-V need 20 years more to mature, I am afraid.

            --
            Respect Authorities. Know your social status. Woke responsibly.
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