Car dealers can't sell cars due to living in today's world
Hope you didn't want to buy a car in the near future
Car dealership software-as-a-service provider CDK Global was hit by a massive cyberattack causing the company to shut down its systems and leaving clients unable to operate their business normally.
CDK Global provides clients in the auto industry a SaaS platform that handles all aspects of a car dealership's operation, including CRM, financing, payroll, support and service, inventory, and back office operations.
Brad Holton, CEO of Proton Dealership IT, a cybersecurity and IT services firm for car dealerships, told BleepingComputer that the attack caused CDK to take its two data centers offline at approximately 2 AM last night.
Employees at multiple car dealerships have also told BleepingComputer that CDK has not shared much information other than to send an email warning that they suffered a cyber incident.
Anyone wanna take bets they're running Microsoft stuff?
Why Americans aren't buying more EVs
Arthur T Knackerbracket has processed the following story:
Clint and Rachel Wells had reasons to consider buying an electric vehicle when it came to replacing one of their cars. But they had even more reasons to stick with petrol.
The couple live in Normal, Illinois, which has enjoyed an economic boost from the electric vehicle assembly plant opened there by upstart electric-car maker Rivian. EVs are a step forward from “using dead dinosaurs” to power cars, Clint Wells says, and he wants to support that.
But the couple decided to “get what was affordable”—in their case, a petrol-engined Honda Accord costing $19,000 after trade-in.
An EV priced at $25,000 would have been tempting, but only five new electric models costing less than $40,000 have come on to the US market in 2024. The hometown champion’s focus on luxury vehicles—its cheapest model is currently the $69,000 R1T—made it a non-starter.
“It’s just not accessible to us at this point in our life,” Rachel Wells says.
The Wells are among the millions of Americans opting to continue buying combustion-engine cars over electric vehicles, despite [the] President's ambitious target of having EVs make up half of all new cars sold in the US by 2030. Last year, the proportion was 9.5 percent.
High sticker prices for cars on the forecourt, and high interest rates that are pushing up monthly lease payments, have combined with concerns over driving range and charging infrastructure to chill buyers’ enthusiasm—even among those who consider themselves green.
While EV technology is still improving and the popularity of electric cars is still increasing, sales growth has slowed. Many carmakers are rethinking manufacturing plans, cutting the numbers of EVs they had planned to produce for the US market in favor of combustion-engined and hybrid cars.
[...] The idea is to allow the US to develop its own supply chains, but analysts say such protectionism will result in higher EV prices for US consumers in the meantime. That could stall sales and result in the US remaining behind China and Europe in adoption of EVs, putting at risk not only the Biden administration’s targets but also the global uptake of EVs. The World Resources Institute says between 75 and 95 percent of new passenger vehicles sold by 2030 need to be electric if Paris agreement goals are to be met.
“There is no question that this slows down EV adoption in the US,” says Everett Eissenstat, a former senior US Trade Representative official who served both Republican and Democratic administrations.
“We are just not producing the EVs the consumers want at a price point they want.”
Tax credits of up to $7,500 are available to buyers of electric cars. But the full amount is only available on cars that are made in the US with critical minerals and battery components also largely sourced in the US.
That means few cars qualify for the maximum credit. Two years on from the passage of the Inflation Reduction Act [...] there are only 12 models that can actually score buyers the full $7,500.
The act also offered hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies and other incentives to companies building a domestic clean energy industry. The automotive sector has been one of the beneficiaries of that largesse.
[...] Van Jackson, [...] a senior lecturer in international relations at Victoria University of Wellington in New Zealand, says electric cars still need to fall in price if the market is to grow substantially.
“How do you bring workers along and increase their wages, and have a growth market for these products, given how expensive they are?” he asks. “I’m an upper-middle-class person and I cannot afford an EV.”
He is skeptical about whether shutting the world’s dominant producer of EVs and related componentry out of the US market will reduce the price of the cars and encourage uptake.
“The tariffs are buying time,” he says. “But towards no particular end.”
« Time May Actually Be One Big Illusion, Says a New Study | Bacon Ice Cream and Nugget Overload Sees Misfiring McDonald's AI Withdrawn »
Related Stories
Automakers accelerating release of upgraded models, unlike typical 5-year cycle for gasoline cars; Hyundai introduces updated Ioniq 5, and BYD will soon unveil refreshed SEAL; how will this impact used car market?
In recent weeks, two refreshed car models have been launched: Hyundai's Ioniq 5 and BYD's SEAL. Both models, introduced in 2021 and 2022 respectively, are receiving significant updates ahead of the typical five-year facelift cycle. This global automotive industry standard generally involves cosmetic upgrades to keep cars relevant.
However, these updates are more than just aesthetic. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 now features a substantial battery upgrade, increasing from 72.6 kWh to 84 kWh. This enhancement boosts the top model's range from 480 km to over 550 km. Other upgrades include new wheel designs and interior materials, but the major improvements lie beneath the surface.
[...] These updates reflect a broader trend among electric vehicle (EV) manufacturers, who have announced major enhancements to existing models. Unlike mid-life upgrades in gasoline cars, which often focus on superficial enhancements like sound systems and wheel designs, EV upgrades are core technological improvements. This trend is driven by several factors.
[...] Recent trends in the used EV market show that the introduction of significantly upgraded models or superior competing models can deter buyers unless substantial discounts are offered. The new Ioniq 5's increased range and the SEAL's faster charging capabilities could negatively affect the resale value of older models.
Related:
- Auto Woes
- EU Battery Passport - Lifetime Record of BEV and Other Large Li Batteries
- "Corolla Killer:" BYD Launches $US15,000 EV in Direct Attack on Legacy Makers
- A Chinese EV Squeezed 650 Miles Of Range From Its 150 kWh Battery
- Why are All the EVs so Expensive?
Losing ground in the race to produce electric vehicles, German and French carmakers are heading toward a disruptive wave of factory closures:
Volkswagen AG is considering factory closures in Germany for the first time in its 87-year history, parting with tradition and risking a feud with unions in a step that reflects the deep woes roiling Europe's auto industry.
After years of ignoring overcapacity and slumping competitiveness, the German auto giant's moves are likely to kick off a broader reckoning in the industry. The reasons are clear: Europe's efforts to compete with Chinese rivals and Tesla Inc. in electric cars are faltering. (full article is paywalled)
"If even VW mulls closing factories in Germany, given how hard that process will be, it means the seas have gotten very rough," Pierre-Olivier Essig, a London-based equities analyst at AIR Capital, told Bloomberg. "The situation is very alarming."
[...] Car sales in Europe are down nearly one-fifth from prior to the COVID-19 pandemic and EV demand has slackened as Germany and Sweden have removed and reduced incentives to purchase the vehicles, Bloomberg reported. As a result, Chinese EV manufacturer BYD has jumped into the European market, pricing its Seagull model at just $9,700 before tax, a far cry from the European's average EV cost of $48,000 in 2022.
VW began downsizing in July, with its Audi subsidiary cutting 90% of its 3,000 person workforce at its manufacturing plant in Brussels, Belgium, according to Bloomberg.
The company's share price is now approaching the lows of its 2015 "diesel crisis," when the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency accused the company of installing illegal software in its cars in order to artificially improve its results on diesel emission tests, BBC News reported. The company also posted a €100 million net cash flow loss on its automotive business in the first half of 2024.
Related:
- South Korean EV Battery Makers Reporting Big Losses as EV Demand Slows
- General Motors Lays Off Hundreds Of US Workers
- Auto Woes
- Why are All the EVs so Expensive?
Investors sold after the investment bank's analysts warned about what they called the 'China butterfly effect':
Shares of General Motors and Ford Motor traded lower on Wednesday after Morgan Stanley downgraded the overall U.S. auto sector, citing worries that Western automakers might struggle in the intensifying competition with Chinese rivals.
General Motors was downgraded to "underweight" from "equal weight," and its shares fell 5.4 percentage points, to $45.50. Ford went to "equal weight" from "overweight," with its shares dropping more than 4 percentage points, to $10.43.
Electric vehicle (EV) maker Rivian Automotive and Canadian parts manufacturer Magna International were both downgraded to "equal weight" from "overweight." Shares of Rivian were down 5.7 percentage points while Magna's were off 4.7 percentage points.
Investors sold after Morgan Stanley analysts warned about what they called the "China butterfly effect," a metaphor suggesting that even small surges in China's industrial production capacity could have significant ripple effects across the global market.
[...] Bolstered in part by massive government subsidies, Chinese manufacturers have rapidly emerged as major players in the EV industry, accounting for 60 percent of worldwide EV sales and almost one in five EVs sold in Europe last year.
Both Washington and Brussels have hiked tariffs in response to China's excess production of low-price EVs.
Previously:
- VW Turns on Germany as China Targets Europe's EV Blunders
- Auto Woes
- Chinese Automaker Zotye Plans 2020 Entrance into the U.S. Market
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RedGreen on Friday June 21, @01:33PM (3 children)
"Anyone wanna take bets they're running Microsoft stuff?"
I have seen lack of mention of the OS involved it is usually their garbage, if a Linux system is involved it is always mentioned in the headline.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 5, Funny) by turgid on Friday June 21, @03:26PM (1 child)
We used to have a Ford Focus with embedded Windows. It was always doing mysterious spontaneous stuff like lowering the windows and flashing the indicators. The in car entertainment also had some amusing stochastic behaviour.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Funny) by janrinok on Friday June 21, @03:43PM
That was cruel. It had all the makings of a build up to a joke - then I realised that it was true!
I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Snotnose on Friday June 21, @02:09PM (12 children)
I'd love an electric. Except A) I don't have anywhere to charge it; and B) they're too damned expensive.
I'm retired. My trips tend to be less than 10 miles round trip. It's been years since I've driven more than 100 miles in a single day. I'm the perfect candidate for electric.
Bad decisions, great stories
(Score: 3, Informative) by aafcac on Friday June 21, @04:12PM (2 children)
The charging station issue remains a bit of a problem, especially in more rural areas. Around here the local electric company has been installing chargers along the streets, so hopefully over time that issue will be a thing of the past.
But yeah, the cost is a real issue, but then again the cost of most vehicles has gotten way out of hand. Unfortunately, unlike ICE cars that can run for decades, the batteries in EVs don't have that level of durability and serviceability.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mcgrew on Saturday June 22, @02:35PM (1 child)
One of the MANY advantages of the EV is its power train is an electric motor with one moving part. How much maintenance has your ceiling fan needed in the last thirty years? No spark plugs or oil to change, no pumps and pulleys to replace, no thousands of parts to break.
That's why you don't know of its advantages, the automakers don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. They have a dealer to junkyard gravy train on replacement parts for their Rube Goldberg piston-driven power trains.
Poe's Law [nooze.org] has nothing to do with Edgar Allen Poetry
(Score: 2) by aafcac on Saturday June 22, @05:37PM
That is true, I wonder how long until there's some sort of standard for batteries to power these vehicles as that tends to be the bit that wears out the quickest and is the hardest to retrofit. I'm sure that the actual motors aren't going to be that hard to retrofit later on.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ikanreed on Friday June 21, @04:27PM (1 child)
Yeah, if I could get a BYD basic electric for 23k(which is way more than they cost in china) I'd buy it. It's a good deal.
Do I want a poorly built luxury car, like a Tesla, or giant-ass truck, like a Rivian, for 60k? No. That's a waste of my money. I might be an American consumer, but I'm not that dumb with my money.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday June 22, @02:50PM
I paid $40k for my Hyundai Ionic 6. It's a fucking limousine! Almost as much leg room in the back seat as a '58 Checker. And gasoline is four to five times as expensive as gasoline and there is almost no maintenance, and none at all on the power train.
An EV is far roomier than the same sized piston car. The Hyundai is the same size or maybe a little smaller than the '74 Le Mans I bought in '79, and its back seat leg room was abysmal. The piston drive train and gas tank are HUGE. The EV's "gas tank" is under the floorboards and the drive train in mine is between the rear wheels.
Poe's Law [nooze.org] has nothing to do with Edgar Allen Poetry
(Score: 5, Informative) by linuxrocks123 on Friday June 21, @04:49PM (5 children)
If you have a garage, and you have a 120V outlet in your garage, you can charge it using a very cheap Level 1 EVSE. It won't charge quickly, but, given your driving patterns as you described them, Level 1 charging will be sufficient for your needs.
(Score: 2) by aafcac on Friday June 21, @05:17PM
If you've got a garage, you can probably get 240v service added without much trouble. It could be more of an issue if there's a landlord involved, but probably still doable.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday June 22, @02:53PM (3 children)
Indeed, that's how I charge mine. Unlike a piston vehicle you don't have to stand in the snow and cold wind babysitting it, you plug it in and go inside. That was the one reason I bought mine. The car came with a Level 2 charger but I don't have 220, I paid a hundred bucks on Amazon for the Level 1 charger.
Poe's Law [nooze.org] has nothing to do with Edgar Allen Poetry
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday June 22, @06:11PM (2 children)
Are you sure? Most residential structures have 240V feeds. 120 only is pretty rare.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday June 23, @03:48PM (1 child)
110-120 is standard in the US. About the only things here that use 220 are electric stoves, clothes dryers, and car chargers. Your system is better, twice the voltage and half the amperage.
Poe's Law [nooze.org] has nothing to do with Edgar Allen Poetry
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday June 24, @02:12AM
Sorry- I'm a USAian, and I do electrical work (and many other things). Most US houses have 240 "split-phase", meaning of course you have two 120 feed lines, and 240 from line to line. Not sure of your situation but you should be able to get 240 to a charger, or even just a 240V utility outlet somewhere that you can get faster charging if/when you might need it. No?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Thexalon on Friday June 21, @08:13PM
My dad is in much the same situation: a bit more rural, but still close enough to most things.
He drives a plugin hybrid, has a home charger that he plugs into, and handles most of his home's electric needs from a solar panel in his backyard. Most of his trips, the electric charge is enough to get where he's going, but for longer runs he'll burn a gallon of gas to go another 50 miles between charges. His energy costs are very very low as a result.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by VLM on Friday June 21, @02:12PM (8 children)
If electricity were free (its not) then forty thousand bucks of gas would only drive their petrol car a third of a million miles. Which for a Honda is only "broken in" not even worn out yet.
I'm not sure if I'm looking at the correct CDK global careers web page but you don't need to be a cybersecurity hacker to read job reqs and the first CDK global company I found seems to do Java and React.js on AWS with MongoDB although possibly that is another group and just because most of the company runs on X doesn't mean Y is a valid attack vector.
Also worth pointing out that job reqs are their own form of disinfo and counterintel ops. I remember twenty years ago interviewing at what we'd now call a fintech company and they wanted a guy who knew BGP and MPLS. And I worked with that stuff daily. Turns out they didn't use either tech and it was on the long-term technology map for a couple years in the future and mostly they have a single area OSPF with like 500 routers that was, at best, metastable. Oh. OK. I did not take that job LOL.
I don't think marketing something as "a dementia patient thinks it's a great idea" is likely to be a successful marketing strategy. If any effect, it'll have the reverse effect and people just trying to be polite "oh well its some other reason that I'm not obeying the emperor"
(Score: 5, Insightful) by cmdrklarg on Friday June 21, @04:45PM (4 children)
Just because a bunch of RWNJ hucksters keep making this asinine claim of Biden having dementia doesn't make it true. He's an old guy with a stutter. Anyone who objectively watches him speak will know that it is a bald-faced lie. But that's the MO of the right wing infosphere: make shit up and lie lie lie about it to the vast unwashed masses.
And I suspect that you have nothing against dictators with dementia as long as it's your hero the Florida Orange Man.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2, Troll) by aafcac on Friday June 21, @05:21PM (2 children)
It's hardly just RWNJ that think that Biden is Senile, just compare his performance over the last few years versus when he was VP.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Monday June 24, @08:12PM (1 child)
It is purely 100% RWNJ bullshit. The current line coming out of the RWNJ infosphere is that Biden is actually competent, which is only being said to prep their audience for the upcoming debate where Biden is going to mop the floor with the Florida Orange Man. Amazing how he can be a dementia sufferer at the same time as being a political mastermind.
They're already making shit up about Biden being on "performance enhancing drugs" as if such things even exist for "dementia". Maybe the Florida Orange Man should get some, he could sure use them.
Just like the edited bullshit showing Biden "wandering away and staring off into nothing" hack job where the unedited video shows him looking at and speaking with some skydivers. Why you would trust anything these fuckers tell you after they are repeatedly caught lying through their teeth?
Is Biden old, and slowing down? Certainly. Does he have dementia? Not in the slightest.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 27, @09:56AM
Rather like how Trump can be both an absolute moron but still smart enough to beat Hillary ?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 27, @01:26AM
Maybe this will help: (AC posts from USA)
https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/86067/electing-the-next-dictator-ugly-truths-you-wont-hear-from-trump-or.html [blacklistednews.com]
Does it make much difference anymore how the coin-flip ends up as long as the theater of staging a coin-flip distracts us enough that we don't simply install a new system like we had to do before to establish our sovereignty from European control?
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday June 21, @05:35PM (1 child)
Welp I cannot say you're wrong. There is a thing lately where the right-wing media is denying reality if it benefits the left. For example: Recent stats say crime is down across the board, Fox News's response? "It doesn't feel like it!" Of course they haven't learned their lesson after nearly paying out a billion over false claims. I do agree with VLM, it'll definitely be hard to market any Biden Initiatives to those wrapped up in that cycle of nonsense.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 22, @11:44AM
You're ignoring time. At the average of 20,000 miles per year that's 16 years of driving. If you just invested that $40,000 then it would probably pay for the gas indefinitely.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by jasassin on Friday June 21, @02:34PM (3 children)
The COVID-19 pandemic disrupted many things, but also accelerated America's descent into a new form of feudalism.
It's hard enough to afford the cheapest ICE vehicles, let alone $40,000 EV's (owning a home is a pipe dream for most people nowadays). Inflation on rent/utilities/food is so bad there's nothing left to save to buy a car (let alone a house). The interest rates are crazy. I remember when I was younger they had long term 0.0% financing on cars. Now, the average auto loan interest rates [marketwatch.com] across all credit profiles range from 5.64% to 14.78% for new cars and 7.66% to 21.55% for used cars.
Why are the cheapest EV's in Japan $20,000 but $40,000 in the US?
jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Friday June 21, @09:00PM
Brace for worse. We just begun the process of deglobalisation, it will take a while until "made in America" (NAFTA2.0) will eventually become affordable - given the age of soylenters, some of us won't live to see it.
Even a period of lower food supply is ahead of us - nothing like famine in OECD, but it may happen in the 3rd world - just look where nitrogen [statista.com]/phosphate [investingnews.com]/potash [investingnews.com] producers are.
Interesting times ahead of us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by epitaxial on Saturday June 22, @05:22AM (1 child)
Don't forget insurance premiums. I typically buy used cars outright so they never need full coverage. Some years ago I did buy a used Benz and did the math. It was cheaper to take out a personal loan with higher interest rate compared to a lower interest loan but having to have full coverage. That car sure was fun though, a Mercedes E550.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 22, @09:12PM
> That car sure was fun though, a Mercedes E550.
Nice choice. Unfortunately for me, if I had a fast car like that, I'd start collecting speeding tickets (again). My current plan is to drive slow cars--then I can use full throttle for fun (and not wind up going so fast).
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday June 21, @03:48PM (5 children)
We have a 2002 Merc S430 - it's up for a $2K air suspension replacement with standard coil-over struts... or....
If something in the 1968-1971 range, reasonably clean, running well with good A/C pops up under $15K, I'm leaning very heavily in that direction.
I wouldn't mind an electric conversion for the classic, if the electric conversion leaves all the major system components under owner control: no "network connected automatic mandatory firmware updates."
I value safety: collapsible steering column, headrests, disc brakes (at least on the front), heavy sheet metal. Explosive charge 18" from my face? I understand they usually help, when they're working correctly [nhtsa.gov].
TFA's spotlight is on dealership business software vulnerabilities, which are an indirect barrier to vehicle acquisition and service.
The "smarter" the cars themselves become, the more vulnerable the whole fleet becomes to events like this: https://cybernews.com/security/massacre-of-wifi-routers-leaves-american-families-offline/ [cybernews.com]
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by epitaxial on Saturday June 22, @05:29AM (4 children)
Proceeds to explain the barest minimum of 1960s era safety measures
Yeah 27 people died from airbags, but in how many crashes? Tens of thousands likely. Your average econobox today is leagues safer than any malaise era land yacht. Heavy sheet metal? The car doesn't give but guess what happens to the meat sack made of 60% liquid?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Saturday June 22, @12:27PM (3 children)
Where are you crashing? At what speed? For every "gruesome piles of twisted metal" on the highway at 45+ mph, there are dozens of sub 25 mph bumps that used to be non-events with a maybe a little bruising from the shoulder harnesses, but today result in multiple unibody panel replacements and multiple thousands of dollars in airbag deployments "just in case" the hit might be hard enough to benefit the occupants from deployment, but that threshold is set for morons who don't wear their seat belts.
If I were driving high speed highways daily, I would rather have a roll cage and a Hans device before airbags. As is, I in don't do the daily drive anymore and most driving I do is sub 45 mph.
We have a 2019 with all the tissue paper bodywork and airbags, it's First choice for cross country back roads at 140+ mph relative speeds, and around town with freeways in traffic too. But, that is one drive in ten. Most of our automobile use these days is within 5 miles on 35 mph speed limit roads. Since 1991 I have done most of that kind of driving in Miatas (with aftermarket roll bars installed), a 72 Cougar would be a step up in safety.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Sunday June 23, @07:34PM (2 children)
High school physics is all that's required to refute your low speed crash claims. What force is exerted on a 180lbs of tissue when going from a 25mph to a stop? I value my health over a dumb fucking car.
(Score: 2, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Sunday June 23, @09:15PM (1 child)
Real life being what it is, the other half of that 25 mph collision is likely made of tissue paper bodywork, so our net delta v delta t will be cushioned by their crumple zones.
Around 1996 I was driving home my 1997 GMC Sierra (standard 1500 pickup) and some moron in an SUV ran a red light and tagged me in the left rear doing 35+ mph at impact. I got a wrinkled fender and a slightly bent bumper. His crumple zones may have saved him a little bruising, but his SUV was totalled.
The next morning, literally 15 hours later in the same GMC, a neighbor rear ended me with her SUV, hard enough to push the toolbox from the front of the cargo bed to the tailgate. My head bumped the window behind the seat, not too bad, and she actually repaired the sprung bumper by bending it back into shape. Her cellphone had flown out of her hand to the front of her "cab forward" windshield and, yes, her SUV was totalled too.
I took the insurance money from the first crash and updated the truck AC from R12 to R134, including a new compressor and evaporator... Very good AC after that + an electric fan install. A can of spray paint did a suitable repair to the left rear fender.
Did I feel invincible in that truck on Tamiami Trail crossing the Everglades? Absolutely not, but anyone who depends on their crumple zones to ensure their highway safety is a fool.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 24, @12:24AM
Edit: it was a 1977 GMC Sierra, still made with actual steel body panels thicker than a sheet of paper.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 21, @04:26PM (7 children)
When the electric goes out, the grocer can't sell anything. He can't decide if the item is taxable, he can't figure the tax, he can't even open the drawer to put my $5 into it. When the lights go out, the store just closes. When I was a kid, if the lights went out, the grocer might light a candle, or a hurricane light, then it would be business as usual. Sorry, I can't print a receipt, do you need a hand written receipt? Have a good day, Ma'am, NEXT!
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 3, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Friday June 21, @05:09PM (4 children)
When I was a kid, some of the grocers and other stores still used mechanical registers... no electricity: no problem, ice cream is on sale!
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by aafcac on Friday June 21, @05:23PM (2 children)
I worked in a grocery store recently, and a couple of the checkstands did get auxiliary power. However, much of the store would shutdown to try and prevent as much food spoilage as possible. And lighting was rather dim. There usually is a generator and thermometers that can be used to verify the temperature in the cases without opening them.
The big problem tended to be the knuckleheads that would open the cases anyways. A handful of people doing that could ruin the entire case worth of food that may have otherwise been fine.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday June 21, @10:07PM (1 child)
Sounds like a use-case for some kind of automated locking system for the case doors. Of course you'd need some kind of exit mechanism if someone happened to be inside.
I'll always advocate for PV panels on commercial building roofs, plus energy storage, generator, something for backup power for food places.
(Score: 2) by aafcac on Saturday June 22, @04:26PM
Power outages aren't that common. It's easier just to go around wrapping the stuff in tape or locking it up. Usually, there is a backup generator to keep that stuff running, but it isn't powerful enough to keep up with people opening the cases and slowly looking for the thing with the best shelf-life.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 23, @07:45PM
When you were a kid they lit stores with whale oil
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday June 22, @02:59PM (1 child)
In 2006 when two EF-2 tornadoes tore through Springfield, power was out for a week and I had cats and ran out of cat food. Everything was closed except for one place, and it was credit cards only--he still had the old fashioned physical kind with carbon paper.
Poe's Law [nooze.org] has nothing to do with Edgar Allen Poetry
(Score: 4, Insightful) by aafcac on Saturday June 22, @05:42PM
It's only a matter of time before those go completely obsolete. I have some cards now that don't even have the necessary embossing on the card. I kind of question how that doesn't run afoul of the ADA as low vision people may not be able to deal with cards that haven't got the bumps to read.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by istartedi on Friday June 21, @05:01PM (11 children)
1. Doesn't require a network connection to operate or limit functionality based on subscriptions.
2. Can be repaired by 3rd parties.
3. Supports not only the NACS but standardized battery adds for longer trips.
4. Hatchback style with fold-down seats, so I can stick 8-foot 2X4s in there and close the hatch like I do with my Civic, while I laugh at the "trucks" with the same load improperly secured in their tiny beds.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Friday June 21, @05:24PM (5 children)
Offtopic:
(in 1992) I removed the passenger front seat from my 1980 Honda Civic and loaded it floor to ceiling with 4'x8'x3/4" sheets of plywood, ripped down the middle into 2'x8' sheets. The springs were fully compressed, but the rubber bump-stops were sufficient for that trip home. It was shortly after that that I found a 1977 GMC Sierra with a full 4'x8' bed for sale for $1200...
More on-topic-ish:
If you keep a mechanical differential and a single driveshaft, EV motor control should be near trivial (individual motors driving wheels independently can get tricky...)
Battery management should be a completely independent function, it will need to consider charge state, thermal state and current supply / demand, but those sensors and the I/O current controllers should be the only things in that system besides an output only status datastream to be displayed by whatever cares to display it.
That covers go, traditional hydraulic & cable brakes should cover stop needs beyond regenerative braking... steering has been sorted, safely, for over 50 years. EV AC makes my efficiency bones cringe, but it's not really complex. I don't see the need for anti-theft beyond a unique random number RFID fob read by the motor control system.
When I re-engined my 1991 Miata, I stripped (most of) the airbag systems. Granted that was early days of airbags, but those sensors and wires nearly doubled the complexity of the overall wiring harness. If you feel you must have airbags, please make the system fully independent of the rest of the vehicle wiring. Crash detection (fuel pump cut in gasoline cars) can readily be handled by the battery temperature sensors - if they're catching on fire, the thermal sensors should be smart enough to put them in as safe a state as possible, regardless of whether a crash or something else has caused the thermal runaway.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21, @06:15PM (2 children)
> When I re-engined my 1991 Miata, I stripped (most of) the airbag systems.
Not a bad idea, given the high power first gen airbags used back then, they can be scary. I avoided cars from that period, waiting until ~2000 when 2nd gen two-stage airbags came into use. However, I don't think this car would pass the annual NY Inspection anymore--there are rules about removing "safety equipment" up here.
There are pros and cons to state vehicle inspection:
On the con side, it often costs money to fix things that aren't directly necessary to use the vehicle, and there is room for corruption because the inspection shop is usually also a maintenance shop. Latest scam is flunking inspection for the tiniest tear in a wiper blade. Then they offer to sell you wipers at their inflated price. I've learned to keep the wiper packaging and casually leave in on the back seat at inspection time...as if I just installed new wipers.
On the Pro side, there are very few "accident-waiting-to-happen vehicles on the roads up here. When I visit other states w/out annual inspection, I see a lot more burned/abandoned cars on the side of the road--cars that were driven to the bitter end and probably should have been repaired or retired earlier, before they became a danger to other road users.
(Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Friday June 21, @06:29PM (1 child)
That is something that is illegal here. You are either a maintenance garage or a test centre. Test centres are government inspected and licensed.
I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Friday June 21, @10:23PM
That's brilliant, and also seems should be the rule everywhere. I'm unfortunate to live in a US state that requires annual vehicle inspection, and the inspection shops also do repairs. Can you say "conflict of interest?" It's one of far too many examples of how broken our so-called government is. I'd love to see a state-wide poll / referendum regarding inspection + repair shops.
When I take a vehicle in for inspection, I tell them "do no repairs- give me a list and I'll decide what to do." They're obligated to give you some time to fix the problems and bring it back in to finalize + stickers at no extra charge. Some try to cheat the system, and there's a special state police dept. that handles such things.
A couple of times over the many years I've been driving I politely suggested I'd consult with the state cop on whether or not the repair was necessary, and the shop suddenly backed down and passed the car. Jerks.
But with most people they get away with absolute robbery as most people don't know what to believe regarding car repairs. Which is one of several reasons I do all my own work. Sometimes it's very difficult, but in some ways it's satisfying to conquer the hill. Plus I save huge $.
Some friends have an '02 Volvo. Its driver's window was erratic / unreliable, might go down but not up. They were quoted $2,600 to repair it. Last Sunday I tore into it. Long story short- they use some kind of (German) optical switch for the window controls. I pulled it out, popped the switch cap off, saw that it was optical (had never seen that before), blew out the crud, put it back, window works 100% now.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday June 22, @03:13PM (1 child)
If you keep a mechanical differential and a single driveshaft...
My car has no differential, and its drive shaft is part of the motor. The piston drive train is an overly complex Rube Goldberg device.
Poe's Law [nooze.org] has nothing to do with Edgar Allen Poetry
(Score: 3, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Saturday June 22, @05:40PM
There's no helping people who front wheel drive ;-P
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(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Friday June 21, @05:27PM
There's nothing inherently problematic with an externally-accessible network connectivity [youtu.be] on a vehicle. What's the worst thing that could happen?
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday June 22, @03:09PM (3 children)
1. My EV no more requires a network connection than any other new car, regardless of the propulsion system. No subscription required. I had to take it in for a recall that probably only required sticking a thumb drive into its USB port. It has had over the air updates, they are voluntary.
2. The drive train is an electric motor with one moving part. When was the last time you had your ceiling fan serviced? The piston drive train has thousands of moving parts to maintain, repair, and replace.
3. I couldn't parse that sentence, can you rephrase it, perhaps without the acronym?
4. Can't help you there. I personally hate hatchbacks, I've owned a few. There is no trunk to lock, anything valuable in the car can be easily stolen using only a brick.
Poe's Law [nooze.org] has nothing to do with Edgar Allen Poetry
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday June 22, @05:44PM (2 children)
Having experienced theft of a conventional trunk car (using a brick and a screwdriver) it didn't take much time or effort to pop the trunk lock too, apparently. But then POS 92 Buicks weren't exactly fort Knox on wheels.
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(Score: 3, Informative) by mcgrew on Sunday June 23, @03:45PM (1 child)
They got into the trunk of my '69 Mustang with a big screwdriver back in 1982. I had to replace the trunk lid, they bent the hell out of it.
Poe's Law [nooze.org] has nothing to do with Edgar Allen Poetry
(Score: 2) by istartedi on Tuesday June 25, @02:04AM
I didn't really feel like addressing all those points, but since somebody else did I think you've got a point about the hatch being less secure. OTOH, here's what the 85 Mustang [mustangattitude.com] looked like. They wouldn't see anything behind the seats if the cargo cover was pulled back. It'd be a "grab" bag and many thieves won't risk it for the possibility of nothing. For me it was a moot point because it's rare for me to keep anything valuable in a car anyway.
As for the acronym in the other point, NACS is North American Charging Standard which was formerly Tesla's charging standard but has now been adopted as the standard charging port in the US.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday June 22, @03:51PM
The piston drive train is an incredibly inefficient, unreliable Rube Goldberg device with thousands of moving parts to need replacing. An EV drive train is an electric motor. Pistons are a dealer to junkyard gravy train for the manufacturer, who isn't about to easily give it up.
So don't expect them to inform you that an EV is to a piston vehicle what a Model-T was to a horse and buggy.
The complete lack of the wasted time and expense of maintenance is one of its many advantages, although a huge disadvantage to the manufacturer.
Residential electricity is four to five times as cheap as gasoline per mile.
No piston car (except perhaps a mid-engine Lotus) handles anywhere near as well, thanks to its crazily low center of gravity; half if its weight is under the floorboards.
It brakes far better despite its weight because of having two braking systems working in tandem, regenerative braking and standard friction brakes. Almost all of the braking is regenerative. I'm not likely to need new brake pads before I trade it in.
Lacking that huge Rube Goldberg piston drive train gives it far more room than the same sized piston car.
You don't have to stand in sub-freezing temperatures babysitting it while it fills, you plug it into the 110v or 220v outlet and go inside your house. It shuts off charging when it has the amount of charge you set. Some say "I can fill up in five minutes!" after the cashier energizes the pump after taking fifteen minutes selling a lottery ticket. I plug in in thirty seconds and go inside.
You have heat in the winter quickly instead of after you get where you're going.
If the power goes out, many EVs (mine included) can power your house.
There are certainly more I have forgotten. None of the automakers will tell you of the real advantages, of course. The only advantages are for the owner and one is a huge disadvantage to the manufacturer. They hope EVs will die. Lately they have been pinning their hopes on the hybrid, that has only one advantage over pure pistons, fuel cost, but they keep the dealer to junkyard gravy train.
Poe's Law [nooze.org] has nothing to do with Edgar Allen Poetry