from the And-now-for-something-completely-different dept.
Over on Ars Technica a user has provided a Gen Z translation of the Bible Linked to Ars because that's where I stole the summary from, the real deal is here
I'd never heard of this before but I saw someone I know post about it... upset that it existed and lots of people commented about being upset. More searching found more people upset including a few saying that it should be "illegal" and penalties need to exist for doing something like this. I did a little more searching and found that at some point, it was something done on TikTok by someone and it got a following. I then found an online version like those other online versions of Bibles. The original post I saw had a screenshot of a page, which I figured was just a prop or photoshopped but it turns out, someone has used ChatGPT to do a Gen-Z slang translation that can be purchased in physical form. Evidently, some people are buying them and taking them to church. In some discussion, I saw people saying that this might be a way to reach some younger people, as a positive.
Anyway... I think it's pretty hilarious. I'm sure a bunch of folks will be gasping and clutching pearls. I figured I'd make a post as a PSA in case others haven't heard about it before (like me).
(Score: 5, Interesting) by OrugTor on Sunday July 28 2024, @06:22PM (39 children)
In fact I'm upset any bible exists. Stupid religion.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Gaaark on Sunday July 28 2024, @06:31PM (24 children)
Yeah: organized religion is the cause of so much misery over the centuries.
If you believe in God, why do you need a leader telling you how to think and what to think? Just talk straight to God... he/she/it/he-she/them are everywhere, aren't they? I doubt God will ask you to strap a bomb to yourself or kill the infidel or rape a child.
And if he/she/it/he-she/them does... you have your answer: there is no God.
But i just came to say that it's JASB (Just Another Stupid Bible) like the Cat bible (the bible where it's in, what, Cat Speak...
Can't believe anyone would waste their time with writing this bible.
Also... TicTac? Get off it. And FriendFace... etc. Just say no.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 28 2024, @08:28PM (6 children)
Instead of focusing on who suffers, find out who profits, they are the cause of organized religion
Whoa whoa whoa! Hold up there, JD!
(Score: 1) by atwork on Monday July 29 2024, @12:40AM (4 children)
> find out who profits, they are the cause of organized religion
Moses, Jesus, Mohammed. Tick.
(Score: 3, Funny) by kazzie on Monday July 29 2024, @07:08AM (1 child)
Ticks are profiting? Is there an organised church of Lyme disease or something?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 29 2024, @09:29AM
No, it's the church of tock.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 29 2024, @08:40PM (1 child)
Characters in a novel
Really [squarespace-cdn.com]? Okay...
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Tuesday August 27 2024, @09:03PM
If that novel were written in Hebrew, I'd choose the character names Alf, Beth, and Gimli.
As for Tick-tock...
Repent, Harlequin [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 30 2024, @11:23PM
It's the old story of power corrupting. Even if it starts with the right intention, eventually it gets corrupted. Every single thing gets corrupted - the only certainty.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 28 2024, @10:23PM (4 children)
Brought to you by someone who can't tell the difference between what God says and the crazy stupid shit people make up and claim God says. Aka organized religion, the Catholic church, etc...
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday July 29 2024, @12:52AM (3 children)
Good reading between the lines!
As in, if you get an answer that isn't from a 'leader' and makes you happy and does no harm, there is no harm!
If you get an answer that causes harm, there is no God!
What part are you not getting?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 29 2024, @04:23PM (2 children)
Well, this part for starters:
If I let someone talk me into jumping off a cliff, that's not proof God doesn't exist. It's proof I'm a moron who listened to a piece of human garbage and ignored all sorts of well-understood concepts like gravity.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday July 29 2024, @04:52PM (1 child)
D'oh!
If there is an all-powerful God, would he allow you go DO harm?
Also, your sarcasm powers are weak.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 29 2024, @05:04PM
Ever let your kids do something like ride a bike or a skateboard? Gonna let your kids drive?
Let's hope you never "allow" them to get hurt exercising all that free will.
Also, you're pretty goddamned ugly.
Are we're resorting to personal attacks now since your argument is weak?
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 29 2024, @03:33AM (6 children)
Also history has had lots of _groups_ of humans fighting or even killing each for reasons not related to religion. Heck even sports fans fight each other from time to time.
State Atheism seems to have caused as many if not more deaths than organized religion. In case you're about to try, the "No True Atheist" argument ain't gonna work on me.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by r_a_trip on Monday July 29 2024, @07:56AM (5 children)
"State Atheism seems to have caused as many if not more deaths than organized religion."
Citation needed. Organized religion has been around for a long time in many, many forms. It started long before Catholicism came around. State Atheism not so much, that is something of about 200 years.
Not that it really matters. People only need a thinly justified excuse to start killing. Permission and the reassurance that they are doing the right thing seems to be enough for most. "God wants you to!", is just as good as, "Kill the filthy commies!"
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 29 2024, @02:19PM (4 children)
Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot communist (and atheistic) dictatorships killed tens of millions in total. Some claim the Catholic Church killed 50 million but I see even less backing for those numbers. But even if we assume the Church numbers are correct they're still about the same order of magnitude.
They had their own "Inquisitions" too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR_anti-religious_campaign_(1928%E2%80%931941) [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 30 2024, @10:46AM (1 child)
The difference is between religions that tell you to kill, and people who killed for power and just happened to be atheists or agnostics. It wasn't the lack of belief in god that drove Stalin and Mao to kill, it was lust for power.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2024, @02:59AM
Guess you haven't been paying attention - there's a strong link between violence and Communism same for forcing atheism. Marx said: “Communism begins where atheism begins.” and the Communist Manifesto also promotes violence to achieve its goals.
Also different religions and ideologies are different:
If Buddhists followed the example of the Buddhas they wouldn't be going around killing people.
If followers of Jesus really followed Jesus' example, more would be dead, hanging on their own crosses than killing other people. If Christians really believe they have "assurance of salvation" then logically they are expendable in the cause of promoting the religion while non-believers are not expendable.
But if Muslims were following Muhammad's example (considered an excellent example by the Quran), they would be doing a fair bit of warring, killing and having sex with 9 year olds.
(Score: 2) by bussdriver on Wednesday July 31 2024, @06:34PM (1 child)
One can be religious about anything as long as you believe there is a supernatural component behind it. The supernatural is a mandatory part of the definition of religion. If your definition requires GODs then your definition is incorrect. Buddhism is the largest religion without any gods (as I was told by a Buddhist) but obviously their karma belief extending beyond lifespans is a supernatural belief; therefore, it is a religion.
They were Political Religions. Just put your faith in dear leader or "the system" communist or capitalism and the invisible hand of something supernatural will reward you! Faith the system will produce the best results without proof or in-spite of proof to the contrary. (Look at communism as people learned and now as some learn capitalism isn't working... well, the argument is that it's croany corrupt capitalism and just needs to be restored to ideals... not unlike the communist defenders; although, that doesn't mean it has to be completely abandoned... like people leaving Christianity due to the massive hypocrisy and hate running rampant in American Christians.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2024, @03:04AM
Hence it's ironic that many Atheists are religiously trying to eradicate Religion...
Many Atheists have "religious thinking": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2itlUlD10M [youtube.com]
They want to feel "Holier than Others" or "More Righteous".
Same goes for many Vegans and Arch Linux fans... 🤣
(Score: 3, Interesting) by mcgrew on Monday July 29 2024, @01:54PM (4 children)
If you believe in God, why do you need a leader telling you how to think and what to think?
My religion, Christianity, doesn't tell you how or what to think, but how to BE, how to behave. Pretty sure others are the same.
I personally pity you heathens (e.g., "atheists"). Your lives are meaningless, just a temporary chemical reaction that has no lasting effect at all. "All is vanity".
More on topic, which version of "the" Bible [biblehub.com] did they feed through the translator? After reading the entire King James cover to cover I started on my own edit [mkjv.info] of the King James, there are words in it that even Google doesn't know! It's far from finished, I'm now on Ezekial.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Gaaark on Monday July 29 2024, @03:39PM (3 children)
And you got your 'way to be, way to behave' given to you by your church leader, who interpreted the Bible in the 'Church' way.
And i pity you, living your life in the belief that Sky Santa will save your 'soul' and give you entrance into 'heaven' where you'll get to 'bask in his glory' (talk about vanity).
I'm not against belief in God; i believe you should think for yourself and not let others tell you what to think. I'm against ORGANIZED religion.
One organized religion says 'strap a bomb to yourself'; another says 'multiple CHILD brides'. Another condones child molesters.
Think for yourself. If you believe, why do you need a church leader who REALLY doesn't know any more than you do?
Think for yourself, talk to God YOURSELF. God is everywhere.
I used to go to church, and even as a kid, i saw hypocrisy. I have seen so many 'RELIGIOUS' hypocrites... i'm doubting God attends church. If God does, he's sleeping.
At least i'm not a hypocrite.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday July 31 2024, @12:59PM (2 children)
And you got your 'way to be, way to behave' given to you by your church leader, who interpreted the Bible in the 'Church' way.
Incorrect in my case, but yes, that's most people. I read the entire Bible cover to cover, unlike almost everyone, including, I suspect, the preachers. I've heard many of them spew nonsense that actually contradicts the Bible.
Have you read it? If you have, you are a rare human.
And i pity you, living your life in the belief that Sky Santa will save your 'soul' and give you entrance into 'heaven' where you'll get to 'bask in his glory' (talk about vanity).
"Santa" was a Turkish saint who died over five centuries ago. Heaven isn't in the sky, it's not even in this universe. As to vanity, "all is vanity." Vanity is doing something in vain, like buying jewelry for yourself.
And it has occurred to me that "everyone has a soul" isn't in the Bible, although it's easily assumed. I know I have a soul, but I have no proof you do.
As to heaven. it is a GIFT given freely. When you die, the good in you goes to heaven, the evil stays here in hell.
i believe you should think for yourself and not let others tell you what to think.
I agree with you completely on that point.
I used to go to church, and even as a kid, i saw hypocrisy. I have seen so many 'RELIGIOUS' hypocrites... i'm doubting God attends church.
I believe that at least half of the folks you see in any church don't really believe in God, and Jesus Himself backs me up on that. If you're close to God, you can tell when you walk into a church if it's really His church.
The biggest religious hypocrite is former President Trump, who called Christians "stupid" for believeing but the idiot fundamentalists think he's some kind of prophet. After hearing them compare Trump to King David, I wrote this. [mcgrew.info]
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday July 31 2024, @03:52PM
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree: neither can point to the truth... only belief.
I agree with your assessment of trump, though.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 02 2024, @02:18AM
"And it has occurred to me that "everyone has a soul" isn't in the Bible, although it's easily assumed. I know I have a soul, but I have no proof you do."
Keep going with this line of thought. 'Cause you know what else isn't in the Bible? That the soul is inherently immortal! I think it would be good for you, if you haven't yet, to read "On the Conditionalist Faith of Our Forefathers" as well as more modern takes on Annihilationism. Basically, when the book says "And the soul that sinneth, it shall die," *believe it.* Words meaning death, destruction, annihilation, etc. are always allowed to mean what they mean *except* in cases of people like you threatening unbelievers with spending eternity on fire in daddy's locked basement...
You might also be interested in what the earliest Church fathers had to say about this. Read Origen and especially Eusebius on the matter for some seriously hot (har!) takes. And keep in mind that Latin is a shit language for glossing Koine Greek.
"As to heaven. it is a GIFT given freely. When you die, the good in you goes to heaven, the evil stays here in hell."
Please expand on this? Because I'm pretty sure nothing in the Bible even remotely alludes to anything like that happening. And why is hell "here?" And why do you think spending eternity staring at the guy who thought childhood glioblastoma was a good idea is any sort of reward?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 28 2024, @10:09PM (1 child)
This Bible "translation" doesn't bother me at all. However, I did get pretty upset when I heard that Mark Twain's "Huckleberry Finn" was being censored. Here's coverage from back in 2011 when it was news--
https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2011/jan/05/censoring-mark-twain-n-word-unacceptable [theguardian.com]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday July 29 2024, @01:58PM
This Bible "translation" doesn't bother me at all. However, I did get pretty upset when I heard that Mark Twain's "Huckleberry Finn" was being censored.
Me, too. It's ironic that the book is an anti-slavery tome. Are they also calling for bans on James [nytimes.com] to be banned or censored?
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by namefags_are_jerks on Sunday July 28 2024, @11:47PM (2 children)
Well.. it got us out of the Stone Age, at least.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday July 29 2024, @02:00PM
Incorrect, mining got us out of the stone age.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday July 29 2024, @03:42PM
Back in the Stone Age, as you say, there were multiple Gods.
God of the earth, god of rain, god of storm, god of harvest....
Organized religion melded them into One God. Easier to focus on one god than many, and makes that One God more powerful.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 29 2024, @12:50AM (7 children)
I attended Catholic school 6th to 8th grade in the late 1970s. Back then they were giving the kids the "Good News" Bible.
The primary lesson I took away from those three years of education was that the nuns are a collection of mental cases, each unique probably due to the trauma that put them in the life. The priests were a little odd, but more functional than the nuns, and the PE coaches were actually homo -pedophiles, but had a fair amount of self control, coach only smacked the 12 year old boys on the butt a couple of times a year.
If you want a real lesson in hate / retribution, go to Miami Beach and strike up a Holocaust conversation with any Jewish resident born before 1940. "Never forget" is just the tip of the iceberg. They aren't usually openly abusive of the young German tourists, but they certainly aren't thrilled to see them either. To be fair, most of them are focused on people's beliefs rather than broad prejudices like nationality or race.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 29 2024, @02:05AM (1 child)
I wonder what the census is, for that specific demographic. I suspect that the remaining members of that cohort are pretty much confined to family homes, nursing homes, or hospices. You aren't going to see any of them very often at the local convenience or grocery store. I suppose that you might find a few if you visit a synagogue, to inquire about them.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 29 2024, @02:25AM
When I lived there you would run into 80+ year old women who would take the free bus provided by the bank, go check their balance, then cross the street to buy groceries while they were there...
I suppose they are still a lot thinner on the ground than they were 30 years ago, but even then they were recruiting artists in their 20s to create evocative works like man-sized stacks of burnt books hanging on meat hooks in an uncomfortably close walk-through installation reeking of kerosene. Then there is this: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-hand-bronze-sculpture-of-agonized-victims-part-of-holocaust-memorial-26164976.html [alamy.com]
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday July 29 2024, @02:09PM (4 children)
All of the atheists I know personally, except one, are the children of Catholics or Fundamentalists. Most were raised Catholic. One atheist son of a fundamentalist I knew spent ten years on death row for murder in Mississippi before being pardoned by its governor. He died of cancer in his late seventies several years ago.
I've attended many denominations and many churches, and have heard preachers stay things that not only aren't in the Bible, but openly contradict what the Bible says!
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Monday July 29 2024, @03:53PM
The Bible contradicts itself all throughout!
https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/reasons-humanists-reject-bible/ [americanhumanist.org]
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/biblical-contradictions/ [atheists.org]
I especially like:
“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30
“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18
AND:
“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26
“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19
Chariots of iron can beat God. Huh.
Reminds me of the Isaac Asimov story of when science beat religion:
Lightning strikes a whore house and burns it and believers say "It is Gods will."
Lightning strikes a church and burns it and believers say "God works in mysterious ways"
A guy invents the lightning rod and goes to churches who reject him. He then goes to whore houses and they accept it.
Lightning rods now keep whore houses from burning but churches still do until they also accept lightning rods.
Science beats Gods will.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 30 2024, @05:16AM (2 children)
I believed in God and all that, until I met the Catholic school's nun-principal in 6th grade. Before that I attended Episcopal church and school and I just sort of accepted it all at face value. Two weeks with sister Patricia and I was questioning "just who is this God person, anyway - her hypocrisy and discrimination against non-catholics (me and others) really called all that previous feel good stuff into question.
I left St Joseph's in 1980, by 1984 Sister Patricia had been relieved of school related duties due to "mental instability."
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday July 31 2024, @01:20PM (1 child)
Most atheists I know offline were brought up in a Catholic family. That church was corrupted a LONG tome ago. That's why Luther rebelled.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday July 31 2024, @02:22PM
Not as long ago, but if you look at the story-line of "The Sound of Music" there's an (accurate IMO) element in there, very downplayed, why Maria wants to be a nun... they very specifically don't talk about it. Not the healthiest solution, long term.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 29 2024, @08:35PM
Don't you just thank God every single day that you are an atheist?
I would if I were an atheist.
The server will be down for replacement of vacuum tubes, belts, worn parts and lubrication of gears and bearings.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Sunday July 28 2024, @06:34PM (15 children)
Another PSA for you - there is no such thing as God. (Just don't say that in front of a cat :P ).
I'm sure this gen-z translation really brings out the sound of the ball gargling.
Oh look, IA is trying to start a new religion.
“There’s a story that scientists built an intelligent computer.
The first question they asked it was, ‘Is there a God?’
The computer replied, ‘There is now.’
And a bolt of lightning struck the plug so it couldn’t be turned off.”
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday July 29 2024, @02:04AM
"There is another." -- Colossus
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by mcgrew on Monday July 29 2024, @02:20PM (13 children)
there is no such thing as God
How did the prophets prophecize and have those prophecies come true? And how can you be so sure? I can understand agnostics, I was one myself once, but how can you be so sure that everything that has happened in the last fourteen billion years "jest heppind"?
How is it that the book of Genesis so closely follows the Big Bang theory? It's at least ten thousand years old, we didn't know the universe was expanding until the previous century.
And why are so many atheists so sure that God doesn't exist, but space aliens do? I'm personally agnostic about space aliens, but I have experienced God. Once you're seen an elephant, you can no longer believe that elephants don't exist.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday July 29 2024, @04:22PM (1 child)
and have they? What prophecies?
The book of genesis, to me, is the only way to explain how the earth was formed and populated that a person at that time could have come up with.
Not sure how it follows the big bang theory, though.
Nothing about a huge explosion, and anything about other galaxies and planets and stars.... just stuff that a person would have seen and thought about back then.
Maybe you just saw a snake and assumed it was an elephant.
My sister says she was hugged by Jesus; her life is quite shitty for being loved by a 'God'. She's been homeless and probably has mental problems.
I think 'God/Jesus' has really let her down.
Another guy i know was 'saved by Jesus': he used to do drugs and drink.
His wife caught him hiding booze and probably just about to start an affair. They're now divorced and he's looking like shit and was jobless.
Thanks God/Jesus.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday July 31 2024, @01:10PM
and have they? What prophecies?
Jesus, do I have to read the book to you? Read it yourself! One example is the destruction of Israel and its rebirth, centuries before the Romans took it and thousands of years before it was reestablished in the 20thy century after the Holocaust (Armageddon).
Nothing about a huge explosion
The theory doesn't say "explosion" but "rapid expansion". There was no flash of light; visible light didn't happen until stars formed from the hydrogen formed from the subatomic particles and started fusing. The name "big bang" itself is a misnomer from some ignorant journalist; you can't have sound without matter, and the early universe had no matter.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 4, Insightful) by cmdrklarg on Monday July 29 2024, @09:33PM (9 children)
True according to who? How many of those so-called prophecies were false? It was also prophesied that the world was going to end in 2012; pretty sure that was false.
You seem to have a misunderstanding of the burden of proof. It is YOUR job to prove to me that "God did it".
How are you so sure that a magical imaginary friend made it all happen? What proof do you have that this is how it all happened?
"God did it" is not the default catch-all for things that humanity hasn't figured out yet. "God did it" is pablum for those who have seem to have an irrational fear of saying "I don't know". I prefer to say "I don't know, but let's find out".
I'm no astrophysicist, but I'm pretty sure that the big bang theory doesn't include an imaginary friend creating everything. Genesis reads like a logical imagining of how a deity would go about creating a world for humans to inhabit, kind of how a science fiction writer would go about world building in their stories. Trying to shoehorn Genesis into cosmology as being "closely following" is wishful thinking.
The odds of intelligent life coming about seems to be an extremely rare occurrence, but then again the universe is extremely big and gives many opportunities for life to evolve.
You've heard of Clarke's Third Law:
What you call "God" might be a space alien! If gods existed it was more likely to be advanced beings (such as depicted in the Stargate scifi series) than some nebulous all powerful deity.
"Experienced" God? What does that mean, exactly? I'm willing to bet that you didn't actually visually see "God". I used to believe in Him, but after years of observing the world around me I figured that He is either incompetent, evil, both, or simply doesn't exist. Since when I've attempted to talk to God I find that I'm talking to myself, I'm going to go with not existing.
Well sure; I know elephants exist, as I've seen them and touched them. But we aren't talking about elephants now, are we? We're talking about some supposedly omniscient, omnipotent being that is completely invisible and "works in mysterious ways". Feel free to show me proof of such a thing, but I'm betting your "evidence" is nothing that I would be able to detect in any way.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 30 2024, @10:55AM (1 child)
Jeezus Christ on a pogostick! I just worked it all out. God is made of Dark Matter!
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 30 2024, @09:16PM
No no, not dark *matter*, dark *energy*!
Wait, how many dark things are there in physics now? I think I'm forgetting at least one more...
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 30 2024, @09:12PM
No, it wasn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon#Objections [wikipedia.org]
Not to mention the Bible is pretty clearly talking about days. "And it was evening, and it was morning, the Xth day." If you want to argue that "well a 'day' was actually 10k years back then", have an eyeroll on me.
Yeah, I'd say it's a more sensational claim that we're the only intelligent life anywhere in the universe, by the math.
And we're going off the rails on a crazy traaaain
--
Sorry for the weird choice of who to reply to here, I guess.
I find the whole religion thing much more interesting from a sociological observational perspective than a personal practice level. Reading about how different Ancient Greek/Roman religion was is pretty fascinating; it was about what you did, rather than what you believed. A time to get together about once a month with the whole town and have a public festival and barbecue, and maybe go a bit overboard on the wine in the process. Historians theorize that the conversion to Christianity and the ending of said festivals resulted in a degradation of community unity that contributed to the decline of the Roman Empire.
Simon Whistler recently did a video How Did Christianity Go From a Tiny Jewish Cult to Rule the Western World So Quickly? [youtube.com] which had a few interesting obversations that I hadn't thought of before. He doesn't make the best videos ever, and this one tends to drag and repeat things a bit, but hey.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday July 31 2024, @01:17PM (5 children)
It was also prophesied that the world was going to end in 2012
If you had actually READ the book you're panning you would know that it discusses false prophets. You sound like one of those people who never read Huckleberry Finn who want to ban it.
"Experienced" God? What does that mean, exactly?
This. [mcgrewbooks.com]
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 3, Insightful) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday July 31 2024, @09:20PM (1 child)
My point exactly.
Do I? Not my intention, as I have read it, though it's been a while. Huckleberry Finn is not on my list of things that should be banned.
You had a personal experience that you attribute to God, and that's fine. I've never had such an occurrence, yet I hear about others that have; maybe I'm just not spiritual enough to sense something like that.
As I said before, your "proof" is not something I can see, hear, or touch. All I have is your word. I don't know you well enough for that, anymore than you can implicitly trust what I tell you.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday August 07 2024, @12:34AM
True, my only proof is my witness to the fact. Interpret it as you wish. One cannot prove God with logic or reason.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 02 2024, @02:03AM (2 children)
"I've worn my seat belt ever since, and I have not feared death since. But I do have an aversion to searing, torturous pain. And ever since then, I have an unshakable faith in God."
Do you understand how selfish, insincere, and craven your faith is? This sentence right here tells me your belief is nothing but fire insurance. In other words, *your loyalty to your God extends only so far as he can cause you pain.* I don't even know how to express how creepy and gross and grovelling this is.
Furthermore: plenty of other people have been in near-death or "fear-death" situations and had entirely different experiences. Revelation is by necessity a private epistemology and cannot convince or dissuade anyone but the experiencer...but you are neglecting to consider that your cultural background is shaping what you saw and felt.
Note that I am not an atheist, and have spent far too much time in these between-spaces myself. The upside to that is I have a better understanding of what it is these experiences represent. God is not like you imagine, your ideas of Heaven and Hell are largely pagan with a chunk of Dante thrown in, and your refusal to examine your beliefs and experiences does nothing but calcify you and halt your personal growth. A real sense of morals and connection to reality do not emerge from fear of pain; that is a toddler's morality.
And don't think I didn't see that little quote at the bottom. If you don't understand why *that's* somewhere between irrelevant and fractally-wrong too, well, I don't know what to say :/
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday August 07 2024, @12:36AM (1 child)
The searing torturous pain is death itself, the death everyone goes through. I will go through it again, you will go through it. Belief in God does,'y lessen the physical pain one iota.
You seem to be willfully blind.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday August 18 2024, @07:55PM
No, I think you were needlessly ambiguous. Death itself is painless, as it's only a phase change, the movement of the awareness from this body into the ethereal/spiritual one. Dying, now, THAT can be horrendously painful and I am really hoping mine is at least quick when it comes.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 02 2024, @02:25AM
"Jest heppind" is a ridiculous strawman and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for even bringing it up.
Worse, though, is that this supposed "checkmate, atheist!" jab of yours doesn't solve the problem; it merely pushes it back a step. So you say God made everything not-God. Okaaaay...who/what made God? No, don't tell me "God is self-existent, that's part of what divine aseity implies." You don't *know* that. By your own admission, we cannot comprehend God. A hypothetical Super-God could have made your God. Where did Super-God come from?
Stop worshiping your own axioms as God. Admit ignorance where it exists, and work to become less ignorant.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 4, Funny) by Opyros on Sunday July 28 2024, @06:43PM
That reminds me of a comment [slashdot.org] years ago on the green site, which translated the Lord’s Prayer into leetspeak.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Sunday July 28 2024, @07:29PM (12 children)
e.g. In their Genesis 21 they inherited the KJV's "whales" mis-translation:
( https://genz.bible/Genesis/1 [genz.bible] )
It's a fairly well known mistake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin_(monster) [wikipedia.org] https://answersingenesis.org/dinosaurs/tannin-sea-serpent-dinosaur-snake-dragon-or-jackal/ [answersingenesis.org]
p.s. Not to be confused with Leviathan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan#Tanakh [wikipedia.org]
compiling...
(Score: 4, Informative) by aafcac on Sunday July 28 2024, @07:44PM (5 children)
I kind of wonder if the real issue is that this reveals to the older folks just how stupid this stuff sounds to non-believers.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 28 2024, @08:19PM (4 children)
How stupid does dancing look to a deaf person?
(Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 29 2024, @02:08AM (1 child)
That's an interesting question . . . have you seen any studies on deaf dancers? I'll point out that deafness doesn't equate to senseless. Turn up the volume, and crank up the base, and you can feel the sound hammering your body.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 29 2024, @08:49PM
No, I just used to watch Soul Train with the volume turned down
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday July 29 2024, @09:58AM
Well, dancing is a bit of a stupid thing to do - but it makes some folks feel good.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday July 29 2024, @04:25PM
Have you never seen a deaf person dancing to the feel of the vibrations in the air and floor?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 5, Interesting) by crm114 on Sunday July 28 2024, @08:00PM (5 children)
IMHO, the core issue of the hate is KJV.
For a large percentage of the US population, KJV is the only Bible. Not a translation from Hebrew and Greek, but ... the one "Authorized" (in some minds Original) version of the Bible. Some politicians running for office play on that misconception, which further fuels the hate.
Is the Gen-Z version disrespectful? Maybe ... but is translating ancient copies of a sacred text into modern English disrespectful? Apparently, for many the answer is "yes"
(Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday July 28 2024, @08:25PM
(Score: 4, Funny) by driverless on Monday July 29 2024, @12:13AM (2 children)
Well of course it's the original, it's in English as spoken by Jesus, not some weirdo translation into foreign which has mistranslations everywhere.
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 29 2024, @12:55AM (1 child)
And let's not get into the son (and mother) of God's skin color...
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday July 29 2024, @04:32PM
Yo! You saying Jesus is not some white rapper dude named DJ Jesus? You saying he has melanoma?
Damn, dog! You saying he's probably brown like most of the other people in that area before the Jews came to the area in 1948?
You sayin' he could be brown and not like that white guy i seen in dat picture on an Italians wall?
Amen! :)
Yes, America... your saviour was brown skinned. In other words, you worship an N-word.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Monday July 29 2024, @09:49PM
I actually own a Bible but I'm not 100% sure what version it is. It was a wedding gift from the Catholic church that I went to when I was young. I kept it after the divorce, as it is quite a beautifully made book; didn't feel right to just trash it. It was personalized to "Mr. and Mrs. Klarg", but I did go ahead and remove that particular page. Pretty sure it's not KJV, but I'll check it if I don't forget.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Sunday July 28 2024, @08:16PM (13 children)
Remember when the Bible was written in Latin and no one was allowed to translate it into the languages common people spoke? To read the Bible you had to learn Latin? This seems to be a modern version of that old restriction.
(Never mind that the Latin version was itself originally a translation from older languages!)
-- hendrik
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Sunday July 28 2024, @11:20PM (8 children)
I'm too lazy and tired to look it up, but from memory, the Old Testament was originally in Hebrew; and the New Testament a mixture of Koine Greek and Latin. So some of 'The Bible' is originally Latin. People argue of which 'books' should be included - see Apocrypha, and various Early Church conclaves deciding what would be canonical or not.
Even if the Bible were invariant (like the Qu'ran), people would still argue over the correct interpretation of the invariant text (cf. interpretation of the American Constitution) as peoples' use of language varies and develops over time, and we develop new concepts and build on old ones. Quibbling over translations is just an extension of the same general idea.
If I remember correctly, the text of the KJV was designed for being read aloud, which makes it an 'easier' read than texts that aim for the closest interpretation/translations of the original texts. This is not to say the KJV is particularly inaccurate: it was produced by experts, after all, but we have benefitted from a few hundred years of scholarship and new archaeological discoveries that the producers of the KJV did not have access to. They did an outstanding job for their time.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday July 29 2024, @02:07AM (2 children)
There are about 30 versions of the Quran. It's only claimed to be invariant.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 29 2024, @03:19AM (1 child)
Fuck off. Try ten [answering-islam.org] qira'at. Claiming thirty is as stupid as claiming one.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday August 11 2024, @12:31AM
Actually, at one time there were about 200 versions, but one of the caliphs gathered up and burned all those he didn't agree with. 30 or so is the number I've heard from various scholars on the subject (opinions vary on what makes a different version). I don't think it much matters; even two versions is enough to falsify the claim that there is only one, eternal and unchanging.
There are multiple versions of pretty much any holy book, simply due to age and transcription errors, if not outright different content (frex, the numerous Bible versions), never mind the vagaries of translation and interpretation. I expect the nearest to "there can be only one" might be the Baha'i texts, given they have (or at least can reasonably claim) relatively modern historical provenance.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday July 29 2024, @07:45AM (4 children)
Nonetheless, in England for several hundred years the common spoken language was English, or French in the upper classes. Reading and writing was commonly done in French; while the bible and church services were done in Latin. Potentially this is because the church was based in Italy and Latin is much closer to middle ages Italian. The whole history is rather tied into the protestant vs catholic thing, where there were a couple hundred years of wars regarding who should be what religion (obviously tied heavily into politics, the religion for many was an excuse).
This is an interesting summary:
https://greatsite.com/english-bible-history/ [greatsite.com]
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Monday July 29 2024, @10:21AM (3 children)
It's kind of tied up with whether the holy book is written in the separate language of the priesthood to maintain the requirement to only approach the deity through the priesthood; or if the holy book is written in demotic [wiktionary.org] language so the common person can approach the deity directly. The problem being that if the common person reads a holy book, they might interpret it in ways that the priesthood disagree with.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Monday July 29 2024, @12:39PM (2 children)
Agreed - but I add the layer of complexity that the demotic (or near demotic) language of Italy and to a lesser extent Spain, is quite different to the demotic language of Germany and England. This is evidenced by the number of protestant movements in northern europe as compared to southern europe - although other factors contribute here.
The narrative that the church is just trying to confuse ley people to keep them docile is a rather simplistic one, predicated upon anachronistic notions of freedom.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by pTamok on Monday July 29 2024, @01:38PM (1 child)
For a long period, common folk were not literate, so a holy book written in the vernacular would still be useless to them, and they would still need to find someone able to read it aloud to them. Similarly, books were expensive and rare, so common folk did not have the resources to buy a book. It makes the language a holy book is written in almost irrelevant. It becomes more important when cheaper books become available as a result of printing, and education/literacy improving.
I don't necessarily think that the priesthood were actively trying to keep the laïty ignorant and docile, but were afraid of people (possibly inadvertently) generating heterodox thoughts. Free-thinking is dangerous because it threatens a person's salvation if their thoughts are not in accordance with the deity's wishes expressed through scripture and interpreted by expert priests.
Got to go and do other things: would love to have a long discussion over this, but can't.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by pTamok on Monday July 29 2024, @04:35PM
To argue against myself for a moment: both the Torah and the Qur'an started off being orally transmitted. It is advantageous for the reciter to know the language they are reciting. It also explains the structure: verses, alliteration, cliches, a rhythm, and often (certainly not always), a story.
The Gospels might have been transmitted orally to start with: but there is no deep-seated tradition of recitation of the New Testament, and the written text (scripture) was in a mixture of (at least) Koine Greek and Latin.
So orally transmitted stuff pretty much has to be in an understandable language (the obvious exception being a 'priestly' language, like Sanskrit, and Latin after the fall of the Roman Empire in the West - in addition, I have relatives who can sing the Mozart Requiem from memory with no knowledge of Latin).
Orally transmitted stuff is usually understandable. Scripture fossilises the text, and language moves on: e.g. modern Greek speakers have great difficulty in understanding Ancient Greek. Icelandic is the honourable exception here.
So the Bible is a bit odd: you have a holy book that was (partly) orally transmitted, then written down in languages that were the vernacular, but language moved on, so you end up with a 'priestly caste' who consist of people that have been educated enough to read the language the holy book is written in. Then someone comes along an upsets the apple cart by re-expressing it in teh current vernacular...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by driverless on Monday July 29 2024, @12:16AM (1 child)
The Gen Z version is actually pretty readable, vastly more so than the KJV one. And I'm saying that as an atheist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 29 2024, @03:05AM
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2028:18-20&version=HWP [biblegateway.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by KritonK on Monday July 29 2024, @07:34AM
In 1901, a Greek newspaper started printing in installments a translation of the gospels into modern Greek. This resulted in the gospel riots [wikipedia.org], where eight people were killed. In the aftermath of these riots, the Greek church banned such translations. The gospels should remain written in koine Greek, even if only few Greeks understand that language anymore. (This was true back then, when many people did not go to school, as it is true now, when most people do go to school, but ancient Greek is not taught at all or taught superficially, depending on the phase of the moon, i.e., whatever the educational reform of the day happens to be.)
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday July 29 2024, @04:34PM
And many mis-translations as well...
https://annas-archive.org/search?q=isaac+asimov+bible [annas-archive.org]
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by Revek on Sunday July 28 2024, @08:24PM (3 children)
I bet they get upset when someone question the origin of the king james bible. The idea that it was altered and edited back then doesn't penetrate those unquestioned beliefs.
This page was generated by a Swarm of Roaming Elephants
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 28 2024, @09:20PM
If English was good enough for Jesus then it's good enough for me.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 29 2024, @01:16AM (1 child)
The TRUTH is what their preacher preached to them when they were children, just as the older preachers did to their parents, and grandparents, and great-grandparents....
As far as I know, there have been a bunch of Popes in my lifetime, but none of them have managed to reverse the sanctions on birth control: https://youtu.be/fUspLVStPbk. [youtu.be] Or, maybe I missed something?
Anyway, most religious people don't like change, they are very anti-scientific that way.
If there is something good about the "Good News" Bible of the 1970s, and this newer translation, to me they both seem to shine some light on the actual non-sacred nature of all the translations, including KJV. I don't know anyone who became a more devout believer after being exposed to these "accessible" versions.
Side note, I was walking from the Chinese theater on Hollywood Boulevard to the Hollywood Bowl a couple of days ago and noticed a banner on the big Methodist church along the route: "Finding Faith in Films" then they listed about eight films, most titles had reasonable faith elements, but the last one stood out to me: "Barbie."
https://hollywoodumc.org/crossflix/ [hollywoodumc.org]
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday July 29 2024, @04:38PM
At one time there were 3 popes:
"The Papal Schism, also known as the Western Schism, occurred from 1378 to 1417, lasting nearly four decades. During this period, three men simultaneously claimed to be the true pope, causing a significant crisis in the Roman Catholic Church."
see also:
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Schism [wikipedia.org]
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 4, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Sunday July 28 2024, @08:40PM (1 child)
https://babylonbee.com/news/scholars-now-believe-david-wrote-psalm-22-after-stepping-on-lego [babylonbee.com]
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by turgid on Monday July 29 2024, @09:01PM
I have to take issue with that. He obviously never stood on an upturned British 13 Amp plug.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 5, Insightful) by EJ on Sunday July 28 2024, @09:30PM (19 children)
When you think of Muslims, does your mind immediately go to ISIS?
When you think of Christians, your mind shouldn't immediately go to the hateful, "You're going to burn in Hell!" types.
The loud, holier-than-thou, types do not represent the majority of Christians. Sadly, they are just the most visible.
As with any group of people, only the worst will be focused on because nothing else is newsworthy.
IMO, the offensive thing is that it was most likely done specifically to mock Christians. That's not cool, just like mocking agnostics.
On the other side of things, languages change. I never cared for the NIV, but I would struggle to read anything in Old English.
Imagine a Bible written for Cloud Atlas future people. [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 28 2024, @10:03PM (13 children)
> That's not cool, just like mocking agnostics.
Tell me about it. I had so little exposure to religion as a kid that I didn't know how to answer the question put to me by a church-going bully, "Are you atheist or agnostic"? I still haven't been to a regular church service or sermon (I have been to special church functions-weddings, memorial services, etc.)
Only recently have I realized my best match is "post-theological" https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201102/on-being-post-theological [psychologytoday.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by EJ on Sunday July 28 2024, @10:13PM (12 children)
Any true Christian will tell you that the most important part of Christianity is the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross and accepting that gift as atonement for your sinful nature.
Everything else in the Bible is historical information, inspirational messages, or simple guidelines for how one should strive to live their life.
Don't let anyone's blind hatred or ignorance take away your chance at redemption, even if you don't 100% buy into everything else about religion.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 28 2024, @10:35PM
The problem is: that, by itself, is meaningless. For that to apply to you, according to the Babble, you have to accept your sins, confess them, and (intend to) repent.
If you don't take that away from said sacrifice, what's the point? A mythological entity died "for you," news at 11 -- you're perfect as-is, just keep doing your day to day. OTOH, If you _do_ start taking these "extras" from said sacrifice, then where does it end? You need to study the babble and actually understand its extents, meanings, and requirements. If you don't, then why take anything from the event (is your interpretation the gold standard?), or why even acknowledge the event at all?
---
And so all the other members of the religion will regard you as not a member of that religion -- you don't seem to understand the significance of the event, nor do you seem to understand the intended take-away of the event. While you're dismissing them as "too much," they dismiss you as "nothing at all" -- as so round-and-round it goes.
(Score: 3, Informative) by pTamok on Sunday July 28 2024, @11:34PM (1 child)
That's just a modification of the concept of animal sacrifice to placate 'the gods'. Judaism was originally very big on (animal) sacrifice, but things got refined and modified over time.
Note that Jesus described himself as Jewish. It is only the (almost completely gentile) followers of the teachings of Jesus that are Christians.
(Score: 2, Informative) by pTamok on Monday July 29 2024, @09:42AM
Korban [wikipedia.org] - "any of a variety of sacrificial offerings described and commanded in the Torah."
Torah.org: Sacrificial procedures [torah.org]
According to some, Jesus sacrificed himself to atone for the past, present, and future sins of all people.
There is a school of thought that Jesus is an embodiment of the Passover Sacrifice [wikipedia.org] (which occured when the Temple was still standing and sacrifices were still in practice), and that the 'Last Supper' is actually a Jewish 'Seder [wikipedia.org]' (a ritual feast at the beginning of the Jewish holiday of Passover) - the timings, as reported in the Gospels are wrong, but that doesn't stop some.
Note that if he or she believed that God commanded it, a faithful believer would be prepared to perform a human sacrifice: Abraham & Isaac [biblegateway.com]
As for Jesus being Jewish, in the Sermon on the Mount, two verses (Matthew 5: 17-18) make it clear that Jewish law was not changing, and Jesus followed Jewish law, as did his disciples, worshipping in the Temple. There was debate in the Early Church over whether non-Jews could be Christians.
Matthew 5:17 [wikipedia.org]
Matthew 5:18 [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 3, Funny) by Joe Desertrat on Monday July 29 2024, @12:55AM (3 children)
Was there ever really any Jesus being hung on the cross? Wood was not exactly available in abundance back then, building crosses to crucify people would have been an extraordinary extravagance. The cross didn't appear in Christian literature until what, the 4th century? It was a pagan fertility symbol usurped by Christianity. If you really want to know the source of the cross as symbol, look from the rear at the buttocks and hips of any shapely woman in a bikini (or less).
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 29 2024, @02:23AM
Off the top of my head, yes. Crucifixion was a Roman thing. Israel was part of the Roman empire. Romans had zero difficulty carrying along the accoutrements of a legion. No matter how much, or how little wood was available in the vicinity, the Romans certainly had plenty of wood to crucify a few hundred criminals at any given time. Somewhere on the cross was probably carved, "Property of legio X Fretensis".
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday July 29 2024, @10:33AM
Wikipedia suggests it happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 29 2024, @12:10PM
Stupid. The best symbol of fertility would have been simply the wood. The morning wood to be more precise and, I believe, that one was quite plentiful.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 02 2024, @01:50AM (4 children)
You don't seem to examine these core beliefs of yours very closely.
Let me rephrase what you said: "Any true Christian will tell you that the most important part of Christianity is God sacrificing his son, who is also in some sense himself, TO himself, to stop himself from throwing his own imperfect creations, whom he knew would sin before he created them, into the Hell he never told anyone in the Old Testament about, for the sins he knew they would commit before he created them. This is necessary because...reasons."
I have news for you, short stuff: this entire thing is not only nonsensical both prima facie and internally, it's fucking *creepy.* I'm not even going to get into the complete absurdity that is Abrahamic hamartiology, nor the very specific change in the idea of the purpose of the crucifixion that occurred around the time of Anselm, nor the utter emptiness of "Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins." You're not equipped to deal with this. Ten gets you one you need to look up "hamartiology," for one thing.
I will say this though: both the free will theodicy, in all its forms, and the divine command metaethical theory, are completely broken. It's not hard to figure out why, but it requires being able to look at these beliefs objectively, and I don't think you're capable of that. You need something to hold over all those people who you think are holding you in contempt, and by choosing this to be it, you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by EJ on Friday August 02 2024, @01:58AM (3 children)
I actually know them very well, but I have no interest in a theological debate.
I will simply disagree with your assessment and pray for your soul.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 02 2024, @03:14AM (2 children)
Do you really now? Because you are doing a very good impression of an extremely amateur apologist with little to no knowledge of the source material.
You have "no interest in a theological debate" because some part of you recognizes that you're on shaky ground here and may--horror of horrors--need to change your mind on a few things. You can pray for my soul if you like, but somehow I have a feeling it's insincere at best and imprecatory at worst -- "Dear God, change this arrogant little bitch's mind, but if you can't make sure I get a good view of her howling and shrieking in hellfire, world without end, amen."
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by EJ on Friday August 02 2024, @11:09PM (1 child)
You are incorrect again. Just know that the hate you project is not reflected back at you here in my response.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday August 04 2024, @10:34PM
EJ, EJ, EJ...criticizing someone's beliefs is not hating them. I am sure you are familiar with the saying "love the sinner, hate the sin?"
From my point of view, and indeed any sane person's with a working set of morals, your beliefs are evil and your God is a Cthulhoid monster. I don't hate you, but I am frightened both for and of you: for you, because of what this has done to warp your mind and stunt your moral growth, and of you, because people who believe the things you do have time and time and time again been complicit or even actively participated in some of the worst atrocities humanity has ever seen.
In the end, this is about morals. I believe the people arguing over whether or not there is a God are missing the point: even if there is, and I believe there is, Yahweh is not and cannot be that God because he's an evil maniac. Divine command metaethics does not and cannot produce either ontological or epistemological ground for morals -- it does not produce any obligation to BE moral, nor does it provide direct access to the supposed source of morals. If it did, there wouldn't be thousands of different Christian denominations (or indeed other religions), and everyone would know well and truly what is and is not moral without having to think about it. Don't tell me "they do, they just won't admit it." Christianity alone hasn't even agreed on why or how Jesus' bad weekend actually worked, and seems to completely forget that the entire creepy, gory BDSM drama was never necessary in the first place.
This is why I find your "i'll pray for you" and "i refuse to engage in theological debate" so completely childish and disingenuous: you very clearly have not examined your own beliefs in any depth, nor steelmanned your opponents' arguments, and it's because you're frightened to. That, by the way, is also scary, because it implies to me that if you *weren't* afraid of your all-loving God roasting you alive for eternity, you'd cheat and lie and steal and rape and murder and torture.
Now, supposing you suddenly lost your religion, would you? If not, what is holding you back? Figure out what that is, and you will understand why your beliefs are not only unnecessary but actively harmful to the moral and spiritual development.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Sunday July 28 2024, @11:48PM
The problem is, it's not the mode that does the damage (most of the time...there were times and places where this wasn't true).
If loud bastards are censoring stuff you want to read, or getting you fired from a job, it's reasonable to dislike the justifications they use for their actions, even if those justifications are patently false. UNLESS there is a loud and effective denial that their actions are appropriate by the cause under whose cloak they are doing the persecuting.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 29 2024, @01:24AM (2 children)
>When you think of Christians, your mind shouldn't immediately go to the hateful, "You're going to burn in Hell!" types.
So, ISIS is a far less than 1% sect of Muslims, but in my experience, among Christians who practice at least to the point of attending Church more than 12 times a year, the "burn in Hell!!!" types run 10% or more, especially if you get them loosened up and speaking their mind openly. But, then, I am surrounded by Southern Baptists, so ...
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Monday July 29 2024, @10:34AM (1 child)
I think you should campaign to have the Lucan Beatitudes (Luke 6: 20-22) and Woes (Luke 6: 24-26) [wikipedia.org] hung up prominently in the churches and assembly halls.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 30 2024, @05:22AM
Around here there are mega churches that basically preach "wealth is good, wealth is Godly, join me and become wealthy like me (and don't forget to tithe)."
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday July 29 2024, @10:56AM
It depends how you measure, at least in the USA.
According to the Pew Religious Landscape survey [pewresearch.org], about 70% of Americans identify themselves as some kind of Christian, of which 25% or somewhat more than 1/3 are evangelical holier-than-thou types. However, about 20% of Americans identify as some kind of Christian but don't belong to a church or other religious organization and don't show up to services on anything resembling a regular basis, and it turns out if you base "Christian" on showing up on a typical Sunday morning then the evangelical holy roller types are in fact the majority of Christians these days due to a significant decline over the last 20-30 years in attendance at the "mainline" Protestant denominations such as Methodists and Presbyterians as well as a major drop-off in religiosity among Catholics.
And I write this as someone who doesn't have any beef at all with the non-evangelical holier-than-thou Christians. I do have beef with the evangelical holier-than-thou Christians because their current political efforts include but aren't limited to making it illegal for friends of mine to exist in America or in certain states in America (they've had to move to get away from that), and heavily backing a guy who has plans that sure look a lot like concentration camps for people of the "wrong" ethnicity or religion or sexual orientation.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin