Logitech CEO Hanneke Faber recently discussed the possibility of one day selling a mouse that customers can use "forever." The executive said such a mouse isn't "necessarily super far away" and will rely on software updates, likely delivered through a subscription model.
Speaking on a July 29 episode of The Verge's Decoder podcast, Faber, who Logitech appointed as CEO in October, said that members of a "Logitech innovation center" showed her "a forever mouse" and compared it to a nice but not "super expensive" watch.
[...]
Speaking with Faber, Decoder host and Verge Editor-in-Chief Nilay Patel suggested that a "forever mouse" could cost $200. While that would be expensive compared to the typical mouse, such a product wouldn't be the first software-heavy, three-figure-price computer mouse. Still, a price tag of around $200 would limit the audience to professionals or enthusiasts.
[...]
Alternatively, the price of the mouse's hardware could be subsidized by subscription payments.In any case, pushing out software updates would require Logitech to convince its customers to use an app to control their mouse. Such software can offer a lot of programmability and macro support, but the need to constantly run peripheral software could be a nuisance that eats up computer resources. Earlier this year, users complained when Logitech added a ChatGPT launcher to its peripherals.
[...]
Faber said subscription software updates would mean that people wouldn't need to worry about their mouse.
[...]
Having to pay a regular fee for full use of a peripheral could deter customers, though. HP is trying a similar idea with rentable printers that require a monthly fee.
[...]
Logitech already sells parts for self-repairs of some of its mice and other gadgets through iFixit. This shop could be expanded to feature more parts, offer more guides, and support more products.A "forever mouse" would also benefit from a design with self-repairability in mind. Features like hot-swappability for mouse button switches for upgrades/repairs; easily replaceable shells, wheels, and feet; detachable cables; and customization options—all accompanied by readily available parts and guides—could go a long way toward making a mouse that fits users' long-term needs.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Kell on Thursday August 01 2024, @07:35AM (1 child)
Fuck. No.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by digitalaudiorock on Thursday August 01 2024, @03:42PM
Honestly this is so silly I'd almost think this was from an onion site story! Is this like Windows only or something? Last I checked mice just plan work under Linux. WTF are they even "installing"??
No words.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by dwilson98052 on Thursday August 01 2024, @08:16AM (1 child)
....have you lost your fucking minds?
I don't mind paying extra for a quality mouse(I love my G604), but requiring a software subscription to use hardware I own?
Nope. Fuck you. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.
I'll vote with my wallet and buy from somebody else.
(Score: 5, Touché) by bzipitidoo on Thursday August 01 2024, @01:14PM
If only people would extend this thinking from mice to computers, and ditch the rent-seeking commercial software that actually comes preinstalled.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by weirsbaski on Thursday August 01 2024, @08:26AM
I use a Logitech G203 right now, and let me say- the mouse is nice, but the software that comes with it is one of the least intuitive, crash-prone POS's I've used in a while. But at least I can run it once, configure the mouse, then not run it again until next year.
Given that industry-wide s/w quality has been slowly getting worse for a long time, I hate to imagine what would happen when the hardware requires some poorly thought out, 2-years-until-abandonware app just to keep it working.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Snospar on Thursday August 01 2024, @09:59AM (2 children)
Who wants to use the same mouse "forever"? These things get manky over time and need to be replaced - not particularly often (since we got rid of the mouseball) but every once in a while; you know, when the matt bits have gone glossy and any lettering has worn off. Anything that sits under a hot, probably oily, possibly sweaty, hand all day every day is going to get ripe (eventually).
Anyway, we all know that these companies never ever mean "forever" because "forever" does not equate with "product lifetime" or even "owner lifetime".
Huge thanks to all the Soylent volunteers without whom this community (and this post) would not be possible.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Thursday August 01 2024, @10:04AM
FTFA
> features like hot-swappability for mouse button switches for upgrades/repairs; easily replaceable shells, wheels, and feet
(Score: 2) by aafcac on Thursday August 01 2024, @03:29PM
Even most cheap mouses last for quite a while these days. I have had ones go bad, but mostly ones from before everything went optical and usually after many years of use. The sorts of people willing to pay a lot for a mouse are also the sort that are looking for higher precision than what this mouse is likely to be.
(Score: 5, Informative) by EJ on Thursday August 01 2024, @10:02AM (6 children)
It's a MOUSE!
Logitech has forgotten what product they make.
I can get a decent mouse for $5.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 01 2024, @11:31AM (3 children)
Exactly. I spend more time looking for the mouse that fits my hand, than I spend looking for "features". We have a number of mice in the house, and I find that the fancy mice with a lot of buttons, programmable this and programmable that, RGB, are unusable. I find myself drawn to the simple, inexpensive mouse. $5 may be a slight exaggeration, but it isn't much of one. Give me two buttons and a scroll wheel that consistently do what they are supposed to do, and I'm happy. I don't map anything to anything, don't need it, and don't want to memorize what any of it does.
Whatever happened to KISS? Keep It Simple, Stupid.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 4, Redundant) by Gaaark on Thursday August 01 2024, @01:47PM
Modded you informative 'cos ... yeah. I don't want fancy; i want Works!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday August 01 2024, @02:37PM
I somewhat recently bought an approx. $5 (I forget exactly, but it was very close to that) wireless mouse from Target in the shape of a strawberry. It has horrible ergonomics, but beyond that it's a perfectly functional mouse. It's a specialty designed, wireless mouse for $5 and would be perfectly usable, if the ergonomics weren't atrocious. There's not a whole lot to improve upon and creating a subscription ecosystem for hardware like that seems daft. At $5 you can't really get much cheaper, and as long as it's not a weird shape, it's perfectly usable. I don't mind spending a bit extra for a properly designed mouse. However, I do mind companies constantly trying to find a way to suck my wallet dry through stupid gimmicks. Like subscription hardware/software. Unless it's a service like Netflix / ISP / Phone / Electric / Water; I don't want it. Renting hardware has always been a loser for the customer.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Informative) by cmdrklarg on Thursday August 01 2024, @08:58PM
It got eaten by corporate money-grubbing rent seekers.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday August 01 2024, @07:34PM (1 child)
Yes, as you say, you can get a decent mouse for $5. Even less in an end cap bin at a big national chain computer store.
But . . . think how much better your experience with that mouse would be if you could pay $5 a month for software updates for your mouse! It would be unclear whether this software is updated inside the mouse (and why?), or whether it is a software update for a driver in your OS, but again why? since mice now use standard interfaces. And which OSes would be supported for this new mouse.
It seems that Logitech needs to seriously consider being able to remote disable or even brick the mouse if a subscription payment is mist.
Satin worshipers are obsessed with high thread counts because they have so many daemons.
(Score: 2) by EJ on Friday August 02 2024, @02:07AM
You make a very good point.
Replace "Landlords" with Logitech. [i.redd.it]
Rent-seekers gonna seek rent. 🤑
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Thursday August 01 2024, @10:08AM
Mouse already comes with software, called a driver. Often it is provided by the OS manufacturer. Most OSes enable some level of customisation, i.e. mapping of mouse movement to pointer speed, etc.
I guess for these fancy mice, there are extra buttons beyond the usual three (or one if you can't count to three). Possibility to also configure the extra buttons to do stuff and probably a few other options.
Would be nicest to make a generic API that can be implemented by logitech but also by the OS and other hardware vendors, so that it can be indeed a "forever" mouse even when the vendor loses focus.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by looorg on Thursday August 01 2024, @10:28AM (2 children)
$200 For a mouse. That is a very niche audience, or one that doesn't care since they are not actually paying for it but someone else with. If the company pays for it then I don't care, gimme the $200 clicky-clicky device.
That said you can find $200 mice on the market today. Specialist products, ergonomic, wireless, fancy design. They are not your average consumer products tho. But they are out there. I doubt they sell a lot of them, but who knows. (Kenson OysterMouse).
There are already wireless mechanical keyboards and such that are in that price range.
But to call it a forever mouse when you are really just selling replacement parts for it. Not much of a forever device then.
If you wanna get a $200 mouse then get one, don't get one on subscription. If it is truly a forever mouse you will quite quickly then reach the $200 mark and after that you are just burning money for nothing.
Mouse software? That have always been wonky. Mine has it. It's supposed to turn buttons on and off or assign them special functions. Its very hit and miss. Oh right I can also chose the colour of the LED light and have it blink and shit. That was the first thing that got turned off, it was on by default. Blinking and pulsing lights in the mouse. Whoever needed or wanted or needed that ...
(Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Thursday August 01 2024, @02:11PM
Agreed. Same thing with a keyboard. Do I really need my keyboard to be doing ripple effects while I'm trying to use it?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday August 01 2024, @07:36PM
It is very similar to a very special discerning audience that pays $1000 for an ethernet cable that is used to carry digital audio between audio components to ensure the highest possible quality of audio. Can you say Monster Cable?
Satin worshipers are obsessed with high thread counts because they have so many daemons.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by pTamok on Thursday August 01 2024, @11:29AM
There are people who make a profit from other people lacking the capital to buy goods (or services) outright. It's well known as Hire Purchase (HP) - or 'on teh never-never' where you eventually own the item; or rent where you never own the item( e.g. an apartment); or subscription, where you get a service using (possibly using expensive equipment) that you would not otherwise have got - e.g. gym membership.
It's not always bad. Few people can afford all the resources of a gym themselves.
The attractive thing about such things to people who have capital is that they can make money off people who don't have capital, as the daily/weekly/monthly/annual price to the consumer of whatever it is you are providing is set such that you make a profit. Sometimes a lot of profit.
Making excess profits is immoral. But who defines and regulates what is excess? So you get loan-sharks, and telecommunications companies with 'administrative fees', and locked-down hardware.
There is no shortage of people willing to exploit their fellow humans. Unfortunately.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ssvt on Thursday August 01 2024, @11:48AM
“… Faber said subscription software updates would mean that people wouldn't need to worry about their mouse.”
I never have and can safely say never will worry about a mouse.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Thursday August 01 2024, @12:12PM
What kind of idiot would pay a SUBSCRIPTION for a mouse?
Ah, right. The same sort of idiots that would pay for a subscription to a word processor. Or replace a "phone" every couple of years.
Some of the first mice for computers and PCs a long time ago were very expensive. But it has been long established that mice are cheap, disposable devices, that along with keyboards, can be replaced when needed.
Well, all their marketing department needs to do now is to throw enough bullshit at people to make them believe subscriptions are good for them. Perhaps they should brand it as an "AI" mouse? Then people would blindly throw piles of money at it.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday August 01 2024, @01:52PM
and will their software be MS (Messed Software) only?
But who cares. I won't be buying.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 5, Informative) by tangomargarine on Thursday August 01 2024, @03:28PM (5 children)
Talk to me again when they make a mouse that lasts more than 6 months again.
I had to research this because I've long bought Logitech mice, using them until they wear out, usually by starting to double-click when I'm only single-clicking. This used to take ~2-3 years, and I'd go buy a replacement one at that point.
More recently I've found that my last couple started exhibiting this behavior in only like 4-6 months. After the second mouse that did this, I went online and discovered that apparently Logitech started using cheaper switches under the buttons, and this is a well-known issue that affects all Logitech mice.
And when you go into the nearest Office Depot or Best Buy or whatever, the only brand of mice anybody stocks is Logitech. Frickin' great.
So I wound up having to buy an "e-yooso" mouse on Amazon. Interestingly it runs on only 1 AA battery, and doesn't have an on/off button, as it "goes to sleep" if you don't move it in 15 minutes or something, and you wake it up by moving the scroll wheel. I've been using it since mid-February so I'm nearing the point where a Logitech mouse would break...I guess we'll see.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Thursday August 01 2024, @04:07PM (1 child)
My Kensington wired mouse has been working well for several years. Even the scroll-wheel push switch works reliably.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 01 2024, @04:39PM
The "third button" (in the mouse wheel) and the mouse wheel are otherwise usually the first thing to go based on my experience. It's really annoying these days when the mouse wheel goes.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Thursday August 01 2024, @04:40PM (2 children)
The irony is they used to sell "forever trackballs" like the trackman wheel optical. I use it many hours/day since 2007.
The problem, is they were forever trackballs, so I've been using it since 2007. I'm using it right now, for example. If I don't buy another until the 2030s then they will go out of business in the meantime.
Its wired USB so there's no battery to be programmed to self destruct like a wireless device, the optical sensors never wear out. I have two more in storage. I may never buy another trackball.
I went trackball because at one point I had three separate systems on my desk, and three mice is not operable.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday August 01 2024, @08:57PM (1 child)
Indeed.
Unfortunately for Logitech, they were one of the few companies that I would regularly purchase a product from, that I had no intention of ceasing my business with for an indeterminate amount of time into the future, until they screwed the pooch with the switch quality.
It seems like most of the market, in many fields, is trapped in the cycle of 1) establish a reputation for quality, 2) expand customer base, 3) make good profits for awhile while continuing to build goodwill, 4) throw it all away by crashing quality in an effort to save too much money to make even more profit. It's just a question of how long the cycle is, and whether there are any competitors who have better quality at the time you want to switch. Because none of the competing companies will ever be *not* using this strategy...
#yaycapitalism
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by VLM on Friday August 02 2024, @01:12PM
I can also think of HP (at least WRT test equipment) and Fitbit. Frankly, Google also applies although they usually just axe products rather than crash them.
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday August 01 2024, @09:07PM (2 children)
when AI displaces traditional UI paradigms like keyboards and mice.
Those things, and text or graphical user interfaces built around them, only exist as input devices because nothing better let computers understand human beings. And we're so used to them nobody realizes how terribly kludgey and clunky they are.
Once AI gets good enough that you can reliably order computers to do tasks and input data just by speaking high-level abstract sentences, keyboard and mice will disappear - and traditional Uis along with them.
Won't you feel like a dolt then paying Logitech a subscription for a "forever" mouse that you won't need anymore...
(Score: 2) by Deep Blue on Thursday August 01 2024, @10:03PM (1 child)
In your dreams. There are environments where your dream AI can't hear and i personally will not be talking all the time to do my work. It'll be too damn slow anyway. And FYI, since we don't actually have a real AI yet, i doubt it'll replace much in one decade anyway.
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday August 01 2024, @10:17PM
I have no doubt keyboards and mice will still be around for decades to come, for professionals who need them - hell, if only to program the AIs - and for edge cases where you can't speak to a computer.
But as a general method of inputting data, for mundane things, they'll soon be a thing of the past. It's already happening: keyboards are mice have all but disappeared from cellphones. It's touch interface, and very often these days, people use voice input rather than soft keyboards.
I don't like to speak to machines myself because I'm from a different generation. So I don't use voice input. But you should try FUTO Voice Input [google.com]: it's a non-connected AI-based voice input software (that doesn't spy on you) and it's damn good. And it's here now.
For general computer usage, this kind of stuff will displace mice and keyboard in short order for sure.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday August 01 2024, @09:19PM (1 child)
And it's not made by Logitech: it's a Kensington Expert mouse [kensington.com]: it's been around since the late 80s [xahlee.info], it's built like a tank and it never dies. And crucially, it never needs a subscription.
The oldest one of those I own dates back to the early naughties and I still use it with a PS/2 to USB adapter.
Beat that Logitech.
(Score: 2) by EJ on Friday August 02 2024, @02:09AM
Kensington Expert mouse is my spirit animal.
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Thursday August 01 2024, @10:52PM (1 child)
I could see the value of a subscription service for a mouse IF replacement parts, servicing etc was included in that subscription price. In other words, if my forever mouse stopped working then I'd be provided with another immediately as part of my subscription.
I very much doubt that's what Logitech has in mind. My guess is that you'd still need to pay for those replacement parts in addition to a monthly subscription fee.
And what incremental improvements are happening in mouse software these days? That's a hard sell.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday August 02 2024, @04:35PM
I don't think it's just the service that has to be valuable, I think the user has to have a paycheck that supports it. I don't mean a high paycheck, I mean a paycheck that's stable. For example- I have a fair amount of money I can throw at toys. In fact I have stuff I haven't even opened yet. So the money itself isn't the issue. HOWEVER, my employment is not necessarily stable. When that happens I buy fewer toys. BUT I cannot do that with subscription shit. It's not as big of deal when it's something like streaming TV, but when it's a component of my computer that I need to make a living...
I'm gonna bring up T-Mobile again, sorry to everybody who's sick of me babbling about it. One of the things they did recently was they removed Autopay discounts for anybody using a credit card. You can get your autopay discount (accounting for about 15% of my bill...) if you use a debit card, or if you use T-Mobile's.... eh I forget the name but they have a money service. I immediately pulled some of my lower-prio services like the phone line to my watch because then my phone bill competes with my rent check. I can afford it, but if I get furloughed again I'm not gonna be happy with that dangled around my neck. At least the credit card gave me some breathing room... including rewards and other shit that made that math work originally.
Actually when the news of Logitech's silliness came up I discovered I hadn't cancelled a subscription to an anime service... so I've paid over $20 for an app I haven't opened in months. My fault? Yes, absolutely, no question, so I'm solving it by not adding more subscriptions to my already hefty pile of bills. Easy-peasy.
This subscription-fad is one of my hot-button issues. I've lost two really good apps to this nonsense and I even had to shut down my freelance business over it. Autodesk seems to be under the impression that clients pay on time and Adobe doesn't understand that I am under NDA and don't need imagery I'm working on ending up in their fucking cloud.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by evilcam on Friday August 02 2024, @04:25AM (1 child)
https://ploopy.co/ [ploopy.co]
I came across this FOSS product (they make headphones, mice, trackballs, etc.) and when I inevitably replace my logitech keyboard and mouse with a clicky clacky mechanical thing, I'll look to this community for the mouse.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Friday August 02 2024, @02:58PM
Thanks. They look somewhat interesting. That said they are still somewhat expensive for being kits. But still interesting enough to try in the future. I could use a new pair of headphones ...
(Score: 2) by jman on Friday August 02 2024, @01:16PM
This is the most ridiculously stupid idea ever.
Then again, it did come from Logitech.
I abandonded their hardware years ago. Any TV remote control that has to connect to the internet just to acquire model codes is not my friend.
(Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Friday August 02 2024, @02:21PM
"Hanneke joins Logitech from Unilever where she led their $14 billion Nutrition business as group president. "
No computing exposure.
To succeed, she needs to pivot herself and her cultural mores. A big task.