from the CALEA3-a-back-door-by-any-other-name dept.
The European Parliament's petition service is hosting Petition No 0729/2024 which is on the implementation of an EU-Linux operating system in public administrations across all EU countries.
[Editor's Note: The link works in some browsers but not in others.]
The petitioner calls for the European Union to actively develop and implement a Linux-based operating system, termed 'EU-Linux', across public administrations in all EU Member States. This initiative aims to reduce dependency on Microsoft products, ensuring compliance with the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), and promoting transparency, sustainability, and digital sovereignty within the EU. The petitioner emphasizes the importance of using open-source alternatives to Microsoft 365, such as LibreOffice and Nextcloud, and suggests the adoption of the E/OS mobile operating system for government devices. The petitioner also highlights the potential for job creation in the IT sector through this initiative.
What do soylentils see as the advantages or disadvantages of Yet Another Distro? Would the EU be better off throwing its weight behind further development of an existing independent distro or two? Which national or regional initiatives already exist?
Previously:
(2023) Open Source Bodies Say to EU that Cyber Resilience Act Could Have 'Chilling Effect' on Software
Related Stories
The proposed legislation also poses 'an unnecessary economic and technological risk to the EU':
More than a dozen open source industry bodies have published an open letter asking the European Commission (EC) to reconsider aspects of its proposed Cyber Resilience Act (CRA), saying it will have a "chilling effect" on open source software development if implemented in its current form.
Thirteen organizations, including the Eclipse Foundation, Linux Foundation Europe, and the Open Source Initiative (OSI), also note that the Cyber Resilience Act as its written "poses an unnecessary economic and technological risk to the EU."
The purpose of the letter, it seems, is for the open source community to garner a bigger say in the evolution of the CRA as it progresses through the European Parliament.
The letter reads:
We write to express our concern that the greater open source community has been underrepresented during the development of the Cyber Resilience Act to date, and wish to ensure this is remedied throughout the co-legislative process by lending our support. Open source software represents more than 70% of the software present in products with digital elements in Europe. Yet, our community does not have the benefit of an established relationship with the co-legislators.
The software and other technical artefacts produced by us are unprecedented in their contribution to the technology industry along with our digital sovereignty and associated economic benefits on many levels. With the CRA, more than 70% of the software in Europe is about to be regulated without an in-depth consultation.
[...] Penalties for non-compliance may include fines of up to €15M, or 2.5% of global turnover.
The quite famous FOSS developer Poul-Henning Kamp (aka PHK) has posted his feedback to the EU regarding European Open Digital Ecosystems [Intro in Danish, article in English] and their call for evidence. In it he brings their attention to open standards in points 2 and 3:
At the most fundamental level, the EU has three options:
1. Pick and bless a set of winners, consisting of:
a) Operating system, portable to any reasonable computer architecture.
b) Text-processing, suitable for tasks up to a book.
c) Spreadsheet
d) Email client.
e) Web Browser
f) Accounting software, suitable for small organizations.and fund organizations to maintain, develop and support the software for the future as open source, turning that software into infrastructure like water, power and electricity, free for all, individuals, startups and established companies alike, to use and benefit from.
2. Continuously develop/pick, bless and meticulously enforce open standards of interoperability, and then "let the competition loose".
3. Both. By providing a free baseline and de-facto reference implementations for the open standards, "the market" will be free to innovate, improve and compete, but cannot (re)create walled gardens.
Indeed, if the protocols and file formats are not publicly documented, freely available, and royalty-free, then what benefit would there be to implement them, FOSS or not?
There is an unreproducable javascript link on the EC page which goes to a relevant PDF document. It is labeled, "Call for evidence - Ares(2026)69111". It is worth checking before sending in feedback. Although English is the main language, the other official languages of EU member states can be used. The deadline for feedback is 03 February 2026.
Previously:
(2025) Why People Keep Flocking to Linux in 2025 (and It's Not Just to Escape Windows)
(2025) Europe's Plan to Ditch US Tech Giants is Built on Open Source - and It's Gaining Steam
(2025) Euro Techies Call for Sovereign Fund to Escape US Dependency
(2025) Petition on EU Linux Operating System in Public Administrations
(Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday January 16 2025, @03:55PM (2 children)
Are there not already "EU" Linux distros? Just not "official" once. Come to think of it are they not ALL EU distros considering Finland? That said a lot of the old once were first started up by europeans as I recall it, that said there are always exceptions.
But there doesn't appear to be any kind of full text. That summary is the petition as far as I can tell. It doesn't go into any kind of details of what it should be based on, if it should have SystemD or not. So it seems to be more of a "want Linux, anyone will do ... gief grants and development funds now ..."
Not sure if it has to be a new one, just anoint one the official EUUX. No need to create more forks then needed.
That link doesn't work for me, but if you go to that page and get an error just type EU LINUX in the page search box, select 2024 and it should be the one at the top. Or try this one ...
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/petitions/en/petition/content/0729%252F2024/html/Petition-No-0729%252F2024-by-N.-W.-%2528Austrian%2529-on-the-implementation-of-an-EU-Linux-operating-system-in-public-administrations-across-all-EU-countries [europa.eu]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Dr Spin on Thursday January 16 2025, @05:56PM
Are there not already "EU" Linux distros? Just not "official" once.
My understanding is "yes".
Lets put an end to this and have one true EU distro - which has access to enough money to fix all known bugs ;-) and eliminates
compatibilities between the various different ones
... after the Gnome/KDE/fvwm95 debate has been fought to the death
Hopefully, in the unlikely event this ever happens, it will also eliminate Microsoft from Europe.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 5, Informative) by RedGreen on Thursday January 16 2025, @07:46PM
"Come to think of it are they not ALL EU distros considering Finland?"
Yet another clueless one who does not know the difference between a kernel and the operating system that run on top of it. The kernel was certainly started by a Finland resident but everything he used to get it going was developed by an American for the most part in Richard Stallman who mostly single handily in the beggining wrote most of the GNU tools used by all of the OSs in use today to run that kernel.
"Cervantes definitely was prescient in describing a senile Don fighting against windmills." -- larryjoe on /.
(Score: 1, Troll) by VLM on Thursday January 16 2025, @04:02PM (15 children)
I would assume this will merely result in Microsoft buying "Manjaro GmbH & Co. KG" for a billion bucks and announcing the sunset of the legacy systems and now Windows 2029 will be renamed to "Microsoft Linux Server 2029"
They could just use Redhat Linux which is IBM Linux, although the I in IBM changed from International to India some years back so that would be a dependency on a continent far from Euro-land.
Another issue is the Euros made a political decision to replace their legacy population so the need a Linux distro with good Arabic support. Google claims "Ojuba Linux" has pretty good Arabic support out of the box for the next generation of New Europeans. Or maybe the newer "Haydar Linux". I don't know if the people replacing the European culture all speak Arabic but it seems a reasonable starting point. Europe is not going to need "legacy culture" support in a few more decades.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 16 2025, @08:19PM (14 children)
Another issue is the Euros made a political decision to replace their legacy population so the need a Linux distro with good Arabic support.
Oh, that old trope [theguardian.com].
It was the Jews they were after 100 years ago. Now it's the Muslims.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by mrpg on Thursday January 16 2025, @09:01PM (13 children)
You didn't deny the statement. He said that there is a big influx of inmigrants. Though in logic he has to prove it but you made a logical phallacy. Let me ask the AI which one 'cause I can't pinpoint it now.
False Analogy: This fallacy occurs when a comparison is drawn between two situations that are not truly alike in the relevant aspects.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 16 2025, @09:39PM (4 children)
Where's the "-1, Facepalm" mod?
(Score: 1, Troll) by mrpg on Thursday January 16 2025, @11:13PM (3 children)
Ad hominem.
(Score: 3, Funny) by mrpg on Friday January 17 2025, @08:36PM (2 children)
How is this a troll? I state that the previous answer is not such but a personal attack.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 17 2025, @08:39PM (1 child)
You are being deliberately obtuse. You are supporting a racist troll. Funny, because your obtuseness is.
(Score: 2) by mrpg on Saturday January 18 2025, @12:50AM
Somebody who loves you sent you an Ecard!
The text reads:
Learn how to defend your point of view. Example: I disagree with what you said because X, Y, and Z.
Zip version of your message to me: obtuse troll
Metadata of your zip file: I don't have an answer, I just wanna insult you.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 16 2025, @10:01PM (5 children)
A quick look over the population pyramid in all EU countries (except, probably, France) shows there are still not enough immigrants.
(Score: 3, Touché) by mrpg on Friday January 17 2025, @12:58AM (4 children)
How many there should be?
(Score: 2, Redundant) by liar on Friday January 17 2025, @06:11PM (3 children)
More?
Noli nothis permittere te terere.
(Score: 3, Funny) by mrpg on Friday January 17 2025, @08:34PM (2 children)
Why?
Please, as an adult, defend your point of view. with a full sentence.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 17 2025, @09:04PM (1 child)
Some places are short of people.
(Score: 2) by mrpg on Saturday January 18 2025, @12:57AM
Thank you, dear human, from you for the first time I have received an answer and not bull, vitriol or logical phallacies.
Yes, people are getting old and the young are not making babies as society needs, they call it replacement rate.
It's generally considered to be around 2.1 children per woman.
[joke]How do you make 0.1 baby?
(Score: 2) by mrpg on Friday January 17 2025, @08:35PM (1 child)
This is not flamebait.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 19 2025, @08:29AM
Yes it is.
(Score: 4, Informative) by RamiK on Thursday January 16 2025, @04:46PM (1 child)
copy-paste this to the url bar:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/petitions/en/petition/content/0729%252F2024/html/- [europa.eu]
compiling...
(Score: 3, Informative) by RamiK on Thursday January 16 2025, @04:51PM
compiling...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Thursday January 16 2025, @05:24PM (7 children)
Using libre software for office work is a no-brainer. There are no technical barriers to LibreOffice, it's all political and social engineering. FUD is the main thing that stops adoption of libre software, and MS is masterful at applying it. In the few cases their FUD doesn't work, they aren't shy about resorting to naked bribery, threats, and corruption. That's how the so called standard OOXML was rammed through. How is this petition going to avoid the main challenge it faces, burial at the hands of MS?
Maybe this time it will be different? The longevity of LibreOffice pokes a lot of holes in MS's arguments, so there is at least that.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 16 2025, @07:32PM (1 child)
Getting the OS "clean" is the main consideration here - IMO. Full stack, from BIOS up, should be transparent, auditable, trustable.
It will NEVER be perfect. The EU should expect to commit €20 million per year (on par with Canonical / Ubuntu) to develop and maintain their own flavor of Debian or whatever they choose to base on, perhaps 10x? that much on end user support throughout a 5-10 year transition period. That's a tiny investment as compared to what is at stake, Microsoft is estimated to collect 100x that much per year from EU public sector, Microsoft itself spent €5.5 million lobbying in the EU in 2022.
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Funny) by Freeman on Thursday January 16 2025, @09:15PM
Right, because Microsoft and Apple OS are transparent, auditable, and trustable.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 17 2025, @02:37AM (4 children)
LibreOffice equation editor is a pile of shit. In fact, so are all MS versions beyond Word 2003. So guess what I'm still using?
(Score: 4, Touché) by turgid on Friday January 17 2025, @01:30PM
Pencil and paper?
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 4, Touché) by mrpg on Friday January 17 2025, @08:38PM (2 children)
WordPerfect
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Saturday January 18 2025, @11:31AM (1 child)
Where can I get "Wordperfect for Linux"?
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2) by mrpg on Saturday January 18 2025, @10:09PM
Most I can say is https://mendelson.org/wpdos/linux.html [mendelson.org]
(Score: 4, Funny) by DannyB on Thursday January 16 2025, @05:58PM (3 children)
How about an official Microsoft Linux distro? MS Trusted Linux.
Then everyone in the whole world would immediately switch to using Microsoft Trusted Linux and there would no longer be any need for other distributions.
MS Linux would have its convenient Program Manager and File Manager tools.
For some odd reason all scientific instruments searching for intelligent life are pointed away from Earth.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Gaaark on Thursday January 16 2025, @07:38PM (1 child)
and Ploppy, Microsoft's open source version of Clippy!
"Hi! I see you're trying to actually accomplish something in Microsoft's Trusted Linux. If this is true, I'll take you to Distrowatch and you can pick which version of a linux you can ACTUALLY trust and download IT. I can't actually install it for you because, well, MS has threatened to break my legs if i do so, but ... what? MS Copilot is listening to me? Shit! No... MS *cough* Trusted *cough* linux is GREAT! Yeah! That's the ticket! It's GREAT. Yeah. yeah.
Sheeit."
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by turgid on Friday January 17 2025, @01:37PM
I would shake your hand but I fear it might fall off.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 4, Touché) by Ingar on Friday January 17 2025, @12:45PM
Microsoft is a Platinum member of the Linux Foundation and they already have their own distro: Azure Linux.
Love is a three-edged sword: heart, soul, and reality.
(Score: 0, Troll) by DadaDoofy on Thursday January 16 2025, @06:04PM (4 children)
In order for the EU to continue their multi-billion dollar shakedowns of huge American tech companies (Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc.), those companies have to be doing a lot of business in the EU. The EU is not really going to be able to keep the Microsoft gravy train rolling if MS products are replaced by a Linux distro of their own making. What are they going to do, levy fines against themselves? Heh heh
(Score: 4, Touché) by Thexalon on Thursday January 16 2025, @07:35PM
Better than the crime taking place and punishment maybe happening afterwords, wouldn't it be better if the crime didn't happen in the first place?
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 16 2025, @08:31PM (2 children)
Considering that MS shakes down the EU public sector for €2 Billion per year, whatever they "shakedown" MS for in return is essentially fining themselves and only getting back a tiny fraction of that €2B.
Were I head of the project, I'd start with a bog-stock current Debian and develop from there. Drive it out into use until the user support is more than I have budget to handle, negotiate around to consumer paid user support, and slowly diverge from stock Debian as it becomes obvious what changes make deployment and support cheaper for the specific user base.
First change would probably be a custom installer with sensible defaults and only the most appropriate options available in "standard mode."
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Funny) by DadaDoofy on Thursday January 16 2025, @10:20PM (1 child)
Microsoft provides products and services for that €2B. Sure, one could argue whether the EU is getting their money's worth, but what does the EU provide in exchange for the billions they loot from American tech companies?
(Score: 2, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Friday January 17 2025, @12:13PM
>what does the EU provide in exchange for the billions they loot from American tech companies?
Guidance as to how not to be irresponsible evil sociopaths?
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Funny) by Gaaark on Thursday January 16 2025, @07:44PM
THIS is the future. Or should be.
In Europe, they used to just literally throw their shit out their Windows and onto the streets below. Then they got sick of the stench and the Virii that spread and they smartened up.
Get it, Europe? read between teh
Linuslines--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by mrpg on Thursday January 16 2025, @09:18PM (1 child)
Would that distro begin to work mainly for the EU, to catter to their every need?
Better to have their own if they are going to use it in 27 countries, they need a standard, so yes to EU Linux. They'd need it with the X official languages, basic info about the countries, like a mini wiki on it. Venezuela has a distro based on Debian for children's computers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaima_(operating_system)
Intel Celeron a 900 MHz Intel Atom a 1,6 GHz
(Score: 3, Funny) by Undefined on Sunday January 19 2025, @03:28PM
Catter: When you have N cats, and advance to N+1 cats, you are catter.
Cattering: A continuous sequence of achieving catter status.
Cattered: When the SO brings home an additional cat.
Lady Catterly's Lover: Someone who just can't get enough pussy.
I use a dedicated preprocessor to elaborate abbreviations.
Hover to reveal elaborations.
(Score: 2) by mrpg on Thursday January 16 2025, @09:29PM (5 children)
Any of you have ever done a distro? I suppose you pick a base (say debian net install), create scripts to modify it (say ansible) and then create a DVD install or something.
(Score: 3, Informative) by turgid on Thursday January 16 2025, @09:51PM (2 children)
You mean Linux from scratch [linuxfromscratch.org]?
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Interesting) by mrpg on Thursday January 16 2025, @09:58PM (1 child)
No, I tried it once but it has no package manager or GUI. I was thinking about something like EU Linux, you want a distro for your family, for yourself, etc.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Thursday January 16 2025, @10:18PM
There's "Beyond Linux from Scratch" to add stuff like GUI and gaming libraries.
You can also learn to build either DPKGs or RPMs, and you're on your way to having your own distro. Kinda.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 16 2025, @09:59PM (1 child)
I think they mean on a deeper level. Ideal would be to start with something that doesn't have systemDick and develop further along the "do one thing and do it well" path of original unix/linux.
Come up with a better startup than init, one that doesn't try to turn the kernel into a windows monolith.
Go back to plain text logs and configs.
And while I'm dreaming, a hardware switch (or jumper) to re-write the NON-encrypted bios.
(Score: 2) by mrpg on Friday January 17 2025, @08:42PM
I was asking if someone has done it, any of you here. I'm not planning on doing one, just curious. "Yes, I did one once based on arch for X reason, I did Y and then Z."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 16 2025, @09:50PM (3 children)
I would challenge the EU to agree first on a single "official" language and script before tackling something as controversial as a single linux distro.
I can dream, can't I?
(Score: 3, Funny) by turgid on Thursday January 16 2025, @09:52PM (2 children)
Esperanto? Oh, you meant programming language! No, that's silly. Choose the right language for the job. Or maybe everything should be written in C++?
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 17 2025, @12:18AM (1 child)
As a defined language, it should be possible to program in Esperanto. Has anyone written a compiler for it?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Chromium_One on Friday January 17 2025, @12:54AM
Best I can do for you: https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanglabazitaj_programlingvoj [wikipedia.org]
When you live in a sick society, everything you do is wrong.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 17 2025, @01:45AM (4 children)
That'll cater for the significant percentage of the world who are more interested in using their apps on the OS than wasting time with the OS and ever changing UI and platforms (Windows 11 crap , GNOME vs KDE, X vs Wayland, etc). Or spending increasingly amounts on migrating, testing, retraining and rewriting documentation etc.
If you look at a lot of business apps (flight check in terminals, Point of Sale, Kiosks, or even "office apps", etc) having the OS suggest News & Interests is not a plus, nor is having the GUI change every few years a benefit (why waste money and time on retraining people to deal with GUI changes that don't benefit the user?). It's not just Windows that's not suitable for such stuff. Lots of Desktop Linux distros are not suitable for this too,
Sure "head of marketing" and CxOs can have that latest and greatest ultralight laptop with the latest shiny fancy OS. But many of those who are getting the work done don't actually need the OS to keep getting in the way of their work.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Friday January 17 2025, @07:22PM (2 children)
30 years is a very long time to support software. Just take the kernel, for instance. If they have to maintain certain functionalities and APIs and so on, as bugs get found and fixed in much newer kernels, the evolution of the codebase (changes in the internal design) might preclude backporting the fixes. In the case where the design itself was the problem, then you have even bigger problems. They'd need to maintain their own software development team. Maybe they could and maybe they should? I don't know.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 18 2025, @04:06PM
Yes it is, that's why if the EU wants to make a Linux Distro then that's one way they could add value. Where it's not "Yet Another Linux Distro".
IBM does try:
https://www.longpelaexpertise.com.au/ezine/IBMBackwardCompatibility.php [longpelaexpertise.com.au]
To paraphrase a Japanese saying: "Those who use mainframes are stupid. Those who don't use mainframes are also stupid." 😉
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Dr Spin on Sunday January 19 2025, @12:55PM
They'd need to maintain their own software development team. Maybe they could and maybe they should?
In reality, this would cost the EU peanuts compared to not doing it:
It would presumably be used by all departments of 27 governments plus any other government not totally
corrupt and bribed by MS, and familiar with at least one European language. This might include some South American countries.
It would also be the most attractive OS for almost all commercial enterprises who speak a European language - at a minimum, all enterprises in Europe.
Even if paid for by EU taxes, it would almost certainly be cheaper and more useful/effective than the present MS tax.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by quietus on Friday January 17 2025, @08:21PM
SuSE Linux does offer 19 years of support for enterprise servers.