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posted by hubie on Wednesday March 12, @07:09PM   Printer-friendly

DOGE axes CISA 'red team' staffers amid ongoing federal cuts:

Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has fired more than a hundred employees working for the U.S. government's cybersecurity agency CISA, including "red team" staffers, two people affected by the layoffs told TechCrunch.

The people, who asked not to be named, said affected employees were axed immediately when their network access was revoked with no prior warning.

The layoffs, which happened in late February and early March, are the latest round of staff cuts to hit the federal cybersecurity agency since the start of the Trump administration.

CISA spokesperson Tess Hyre declined to comment on the latest round of job cuts affecting the agency and wouldn't say how many employees had been affected. Hyre told TechCrunch that CISA's red team "remains operational" but said the agency is "reviewing all contracts to ensure that they align with the priorities of the new administration."

One of the people affected told TechCrunch that CISA red team employees, who simulate real-world attacks to identify security weaknesses in networks before attackers do, were affected by the DOGE-enforced cuts.

Another person affected by the layoffs, who asked to remain anonymous due to fear of government retaliation, told TechCrunch that laid-off employees also include staffers who worked for CISA's Cyber Incident Response Team (CIRT), which is responsible for penetration testing and vulnerability management of networks belonging to U.S. federal government departments and agencies.

[...] This is by our count the third known round of job cuts to affect CISA employees since January 20. More than 130 CISA employees were cut by DOGE earlier in February, according to reports, and several CISA employees working on election security were placed on leave in January.


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 12, @07:35PM (13 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 12, @07:35PM (#1396154)

    But several MAGAs in Congress have said DOGE doesn't fire anyone. The agency heads are responsible for the axe.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Wednesday March 12, @08:12PM (12 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 12, @08:12PM (#1396159) Journal

      But several MAGAs in Congress have said DOGE doesn't fire anyone.

      Meanwhile a website says DOGE does fire people. Who can we believe? /sarc

      The agency heads are responsible for the axe.

      This. DOGE is way too involved in these firings, but they don't have the power to fire. That devolves to the agencies and their heads.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by zocalo on Wednesday March 12, @09:31PM (11 children)

        by zocalo (302) on Wednesday March 12, @09:31PM (#1396170)
        Look at it as a corporate RIF:

        The CEO decides to cut costs and tells HR to do that through a reduction in headcount. HR crunches the numbers and tells your boss to reduce headcount by 10%, possibly even picking the team(s) to axe. Your boss (possibly after some futile protests) picks out the unlucky ones and gives them the bad news. Your department literally gets decimated. Who was ultimately responsible for the layoffs?

        What's happending with DOGE is buck-passing using semantics so everyone gets to blame who they want to blame, but where the process started that led to the layoffs should be pretty clear to anyone. When Google, Facebook, or whoever, announce mass layoffs and we discuss it here, I don't recall anyone ever blaming the line mangers - it's always the CEO, so why should DOGE get a pass just because they're not officially in the "chain of command"?

        And that's a whole other issue. DOGE are NOT in the chain of command, so when they get around to the military (which they surely must to meet their targets) the correct response should be "GTFO", shouldn't it?
        --
        UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Mykl on Wednesday March 12, @09:39PM (6 children)

          by Mykl (1112) on Wednesday March 12, @09:39PM (#1396171)

          DOGE won't go after the military. It would be too unpopular with the MAGA base.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 13, @03:40AM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 13, @03:40AM (#1396200)

            The military itself, but what about military contractors?

            • (Score: 2) by Mykl on Thursday March 13, @05:29AM

              by Mykl (1112) on Thursday March 13, @05:29AM (#1396209)

              They probably _should_ have a really close look at all of those Military and other Government contracts, but will probably not peer too closely as they will be attached to friends or donors.

              And while eliminating a few juicy contracts might reduce Government spending, it won't reduce the size of the Public Service, which is what I think the real point is.

            • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday March 13, @10:36AM (1 child)

              by Thexalon (636) on Thursday March 13, @10:36AM (#1396218)

              I'm no expert, but I'm reasonably confident that any contracts that might exist between the DoD and either Tesla or SpaceX or the Boring Company will either not be touched by DOGE, or actually increased a bit. Because "efficiency", or something.

              --
              "Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
          • (Score: 2) by epitaxial on Thursday March 13, @12:51PM (1 child)

            by epitaxial (3165) on Thursday March 13, @12:51PM (#1396232)

            MAGA doesn't care one bit until it affects them directly. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/03/05/va-plans-fire-83000-employees-musks-help-eliminating-pact-act-staffing-increase.html [military.com]

            They're still cheering.

            • (Score: 2) by Mykl on Thursday March 13, @09:11PM

              by Mykl (1112) on Thursday March 13, @09:11PM (#1396296)

              The VA is ex-military, and are generally anti-war

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday March 12, @10:45PM (3 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 12, @10:45PM (#1396180) Journal

          What's happending with DOGE is buck-passing using semantics so everyone gets to blame who they want to blame, but where the process started that led to the layoffs should be pretty clear to anyone. When Google, Facebook, or whoever, announce mass layoffs and we discuss it here, I don't recall anyone ever blaming the line mangers - it's always the CEO, so why should DOGE get a pass just because they're not officially in the "chain of command"?

          The CEO here is Trump not DOGE. If "it's always the CEO", then DOGE gets a pass by your own reasoning. And it's a thing for a CEO to "decide to cut costs" and bring in an outside contractor to do the selecting/axing. On the axing, I've heard of contractors who are hired solely to tell a bunch of people they're fired (met one person who did that for a few years before they got laid off themselves during the dotcom burst).

          And that's a whole other issue. DOGE are NOT in the chain of command, so when they get around to the military (which they surely must to meet their targets) the correct response should be "GTFO", shouldn't it?

          The problem is Trump is in the chain of command - at the top.

          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 13, @03:57AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 13, @03:57AM (#1396202)

            On the axing, I've heard of contractors who are hired solely to tell a bunch of people they're fired.

            That's extremely common in all businesses, and not just as a contractor. There are C-level executives whose whole career is being hired as a executive/manager, working for a while to give them credibility with the 'masses", firing whatever portion of the workforce is deemed unwanted, then being "fired" by the CEO/Board to try and appease/reassure those still working.

            I believe the thinking is that if the current manager is the one who fired a bunch of people, then all the staff will start looking for jobs, naturally the better staff will find other jobs and leave the company full of deadwood. The method above supposedly gets rid of staff without panicking all the good staff into leaving too.

            I had a relative who did that as a job at the CEO level. He would be hired to "replace" a "failing" (but popular) CEO and would spend somewhere from 6 months to 2 years initiating unpopular reforms and/or mass sackings. He would then be removed by the board and quite often the previous CEO (who was in on it) would come back after a nice holiday paid for by his golden parachute.

          • (Score: 2) by zocalo on Thursday March 13, @08:18AM (1 child)

            by zocalo (302) on Thursday March 13, @08:18AM (#1396212)
            The problem with the whole setup is Trump. He's clearly not reading and understanding the executive orders he's signing because he's been caught out by questions on the details numerous times and hadn't a clue, e.g. the dumbfounded look when he was told about exactly who was released under the Jan 6 pardons. So, yeah, he - as CEO - has tasked DOGE with "doing some stuff", but I doubt very much he's given any direction beyond "make cuts", assuming the whole idea wasn't Musk's to start with. There's clearly no oversight or review or we wouldn't be seeing all the rollbacks and re-hires. Yes, CEOs like to distance themselves from unpleasant stuff that might need to be done for the greater good, but it's usually more for show and they still retain control behind the curtain to avoid the kinds of issues DOGE is creating. With DOGE there's clearly a disconnect in decision making and accountability there that strongly suggests that link simply does not exist. The buck clearly does not stop at the Resolute Desk.

            As for the military, yes, Trump is the Commander in Chief. From there the chain of command explicitly passes down through the senior ranks to the lower ones, so that everyone, from the most junior rank up, can draw a clear line through that chain to the President. None of those lines take a detour through DOGE, and orders or "suggestions" outside the chain of command are illegal by definition, are they not? Contractors and pork projects are probably fair game, but how how far does that cover extend - everything under the DoD? Do any other federal agencies have similar frameworks? Either way, my understanding is that a good chunk of the federal "staff" are completely protected from DOGE's efforts unless the order is signed by Trump personally, which means either Trump will have to man up and take responsibility or there are going to have to be deeper cuts made where it's possible for DOGE to do so autonomously.
            --
            UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday March 13, @12:24PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 13, @12:24PM (#1396230) Journal

              None of those lines take a detour through DOGE, and orders or "suggestions" outside the chain of command are illegal by definition, are they not?

              They wouldn't be outside the chain of command because once again, it would be under the authority of Trump. The rest of your post is irrelevant. This would be far from the first time that a presidential order/act had unintended consequences or a president weren't fully informed of those consequences - or merely appeared to be so uninformed.

              Either way, my understanding is that a good chunk of the federal "staff" are completely protected from DOGE's efforts unless the order is signed by Trump personally, which means either Trump will have to man up and take responsibility or there are going to have to be deeper cuts made where it's possible for DOGE to do so autonomously.

              Trump has played that game before: relying on Director Anthony Fauci to coordinate the US response to the covid pandemic while simultaneously using him as a blame sink for Trump's failures to properly handle the same. DOGE's achievements will be credited to Trump, their failings will be their own.

  • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Mojibake Tengu on Wednesday March 12, @07:36PM (6 children)

    by Mojibake Tengu (8598) on Wednesday March 12, @07:36PM (#1396155) Journal

    CISA "red team" is attackers.

    No pity for them. Specialization is for insects, anyway.

    --
    Rust programming language offends both my Intelligence and my Spirit.
    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 12, @09:08PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 12, @09:08PM (#1396166)

      That's exactly what your DADDY Vlady, said as well.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday March 12, @09:22PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 12, @09:22PM (#1396169) Journal

      Specialization is for insects, anyway.

      Who are probably the most diverse and successful group of multicellular organisms on Earth. Specialization hasn't hurt them a bit!

      Really, the key value of specialization is when you don't have the mental capacity to do everything. Not everyone can be a polymath. And my view is that it's better to do a few things really well than a lot of things badly. You can always do that cooperation thing and get other people to cover the many things you can't do well yourself.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 12, @09:44PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 12, @09:44PM (#1396172)

      Specialization is for insects, anyway

      This comment gives a new meaning to stupid.

      Almost every single job on the planet is a specialization of skills - even the low paying ones. Without it, our society would never have made it out of the Stone Age.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Mojibake Tengu on Wednesday March 12, @10:15PM (1 child)

        by Mojibake Tengu (8598) on Wednesday March 12, @10:15PM (#1396178) Journal

        CISA "red team" specialises for aggression.

        That's how I see them. They simply dont' know better.
        I value them at the organisms level equal to horseflies or hornets.
        They well deserved to be smashed.
        May they find a better use for themselves.

        I humbly hold to me being stupid.

        --
        Rust programming language offends both my Intelligence and my Spirit.
        • (Score: 2, Disagree) by zocalo on Thursday March 13, @08:25AM

          by zocalo (302) on Thursday March 13, @08:25AM (#1396214)
          I suggest you go and find out exactly what role a Red Team plays and why that is so useful in finding and, more importantly, fixing problems, because your attitude implies a misunderstanding in what they actually do and how they are brought in to do that task. The concept extends beyond cyber too - every war game has a Red Team, for instance, which is critical in developing an understanding of how to best defend against attacks, what tactics work, which ones don't, etc.

          They are most definitely not the equivalent of the DPRK's hackers looking to disrupt infrastructure, steal crypto, and all that other stuff. They might know how to do some, or all of that, but that is not their remit in the slightest.
          --
          UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday March 13, @10:44AM

      by Thexalon (636) on Thursday March 13, @10:44AM (#1396219)

      So they're responsible for among other things finding vulnerabilities in our own stuff that the various Bad Guys of the world could exploit before the Bad Guys do? That seems useful.

      Even if their main role is attacking other countries, there are worse things than, say, stopping the Iranians from getting nukes.

      --
      "Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Thursday March 13, @01:37AM

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 13, @01:37AM (#1396192) Journal

    While my eye sweep disinterested over the titles on the first page

    DOGE Axes CISA ‘Red Team’ Staffers Amid Ongoing Feral Cats

    Say... what?
    Oh, OK, same SNAFU.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 2) by DadaDoofy on Thursday March 13, @11:50AM

    by DadaDoofy (23827) on Thursday March 13, @11:50AM (#1396223)

    Interesting that this was announced a day after a massive attack on X. Connection or happy coincidence? /s

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by ElizabethGreene on Thursday March 13, @01:46PM

    by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Thursday March 13, @01:46PM (#1396240) Journal

    This represents roughly a 4% cut in staffing. As of January 2025, CISA had 3,300 employees, up from 1,200 in July 2021.

    Source:
    https://federalnewsnetwork.com/cybersecurity/2025/01/easterly-hails-cisas-world-class-talent-in-final-address/ [federalnewsnetwork.com]

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