The ability to Side load Android may be going away
I just ran across this while bringing up another Android phone:
It is linked from the F-Droid website:
125 days until lockdown.
Starting September 2026, a silent update, nonconsensually pushed by Google, will block every Android app whose developer hasn't registered with Google, signed their contract, paid up, and handed over government ID.
Every app and every device, worldwide, with no opt-out.
( I have an interest in developing an Android apk for using cellphones as an HMI for Arduinos. )
Starting September 2026, a silent update, nonconsensually pushed by Google, will block every Android app whose developer hasn't registered with Google, signed their contract, paid up, and handed over government ID.
Every app and every device, worldwide, with no opt-out.
In August 2025, Google announced a new requirement: starting September 2026, every Android app developer must register centrally with Google before their software can be installed on any device. Not just Play Store apps: all apps. This includes apps shared between friends, distributed through F-Droid, built by hobbyists for personal use. Independent developers, church and community groups, and hobbyists alike will all be frozen out of being able to develop and distribute their software.
Registration requires:
- Paying a fee to Google
- Agreeing to Google's Terms and Conditions
- Surrendering your government-issued identification
- Providing evidence of your private signing key
- Listing all current and all future application identifiers
If a developer does not comply, their apps get silently blocked on every Android device worldwide.
Continued here.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday May 01, @04:57AM (7 children)
for when that happens.
The only thing keeping me on Android is because all the apps I need are built for Android - and most of them are open-source. The day sideloading dies is the day I will exit the Android ecosystem and focus my efforts on trying to improve UT. Not because I want to, but because I'll have to.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Unixnut on Friday May 01, @07:51AM (2 children)
I am wary of Canonical, they seem to be following in the footsteps of IBM/RH in the sense of trying to "lock in" Linux under technology they control (like RH effectively did with the server side).
It is bad enough that OSS enthusiasts contributed so much to Android only to have it turned around and used against them, without it happening a second time with Ubuntu touch.
(Score: 5, Informative) by tekk on Friday May 01, @01:19PM (1 child)
Luckily Canonical abandoned Ubuntu Touch like a decade ago. What GP is referring to is UBPorts, which is the community continuation.
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday May 01, @03:57PM
Sorry yes, my bad. I keep calling it by its old name.
(Score: 2) by dx3bydt3 on Friday May 01, @11:06AM (3 children)
I would love an open source os on my phone, but banking apps are a problem for any phone os that isn't Google or Apple. I wouldn't use the phone for this at all, but my employer still uses physical paychecks and there's no way to e-deposit from the desktop interface, you've go to use a phone or go in person.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 01, @01:21PM (1 child)
You might look into Graphene OS. https://grapheneos.org/ [grapheneos.org] I cannot vouch for any banking app other than my own, but my app works. At the moment, it can only be installed on Google Pixels (or that was my latest understanding, you may have success if you try). But Motorola and Google have signed an agreement, and Graphene will soon be available on Motorola phones. I'm as happy as can be with Graphene on my daily driver, but I'm an outlier of course. I don't live with a phone in my hand, and there are few apps on my phone.
Those people who spend a little more to purchase phones actually built for privacy will be unaffected, I'm sure. Google never had any control over those.
As an aside - I picked my wife's phone up a few days ago, and I was SHOCKED at the long, long list of apps installed. Good that Santa brought her a phone for Christmas, with lots of RAM and lots of storage. Around here, Santa doesn't believe in waiting for an underpowered device to swap gigabytes of data to disk, so it can go on to the next task.
We're gonna be able to vacation in Gaza, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran and maybe Minnesota soon. Incredible times.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01, @03:02PM
What a douche.
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday May 01, @04:04PM
Banking apps have a very good chance of working in Waydroid, which is used by all mobile Linux OS flavors for Android compatibility. But yes, some won't work of course.
My biggest problem is SIgnal: it doesn't exist natively for UT (sorry, UBPorts :)), and anything running in Waydroid dies when you close Waydroid, which totally negates the appeal of a forever-running in the background app like Signal.
The only thing keeping me from ditching Android and using UBPorts right now is the lack of a native Signal client: everybody I know is on Signal, that's how my family keeps in touch, so that the biggest drag for me.
The banking app? It runs once a day for 10 seconds maybe. I just don't care how bad the experience is with it. I only need i occasionally.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01, @05:28AM (13 children)
Google has already walked this back. The new rule is you can sideload whatever you want, however, the end user must opt in (same as now) but wait a day to enable the feature. This will stop scam pressure tactics but will cause only an inconvenience to legitimate non-app-store apps.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by anubi on Friday May 01, @07:12AM (3 children)
An Android phone ( with all its sensors, communication interfaces (WiFi, Bluetooth, in addition to phone ), OctaCore CPU, Gigabytes ( even terabytes! ) of memory, with integrated batteries, display, keyboard ) to me is such a wonder to behold. Even if some consider this disposable. I most certainly do not!
This marvel of engineering becomes as useless to me if it becomes crippled by both design and law-makers to be good for only one thing...that is only for wealth extraction and snooping on it's possessor. Only good for the landfill because no-one can trust it.
There are so many things these things can be programmed to do
These things are powerful far beyond my wildest dreams I had as a kid, when I considered an old vacuum-tube AM radio to be black magic.
These things can be programmed to be the "brains" of nearly anything. All it needs is a WiFi interface to the physical world.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Unixnut on Friday May 01, @07:36AM
I know, it is amazing how much hardware we can pack in to a portable device, yet make it such a useless , crap and (to user and general privacy) a danger.
My first experience in portable computing was the Nokia N810 [wikipedia.org], a Debian based tablet with a now paltry 128MB of ram and 400MHz single core ARM.
Every single modern smartphone blows it out of the water in HW specs, yet the N810 was a far more powerful machine, simply because it was a proper OS, with X11, bash, root and every single Linux and OSS program available in its repos. When I had the N810 I could actually stop lugging around my laptop with me, it felt like the next evolution in portable computing. I could even SSH to the tablet and then run full fat desktop apps via X forwarding on desktop PC without my data leaving my device (I even did it with openoffice running on the device, quite impressive).
Android on the other hand never became good in my eyes. It started off as a non-standard Linux distro (without the GNU toolchain) and just got worse from there. I use it because I have to, not because I want to, and I still miss the N810. With Android I had to resort to carrying a laptop with me once again to actually do anything productive.
I still have the N810 in my drawer and when I occasionally power it up I am reminded of how things could have turned out with portable computing and how badly wrong it has become. To be at the point where a large corporate company can dictate to me what I can install on my device, what I can access on my device, and what my device records and reports to the corporate (and others) without my knowledge or willing consent. Not to mention that they can also dictate who can write software for my device.
Imagine a proper OSS operating system on a device with the power of my smartphone, on paper my smartphone actually has more RAM and CPU than my laptop. It could once again be a laptop replacement for me. However until that happens, I have to keep lugging my laptop with me. Hopefully with the latest move people finally get fed up of Google/Alphabet and start to leave their ecosystem for something more open and free.
Oh, and I would not trust their walkbacks, no doubt they realised that they just went too far in the initial power grab and are now suffering negative PR. Therefore they will now walk it back then slowly over time try again. Not to mention that the new restrictions on developers will remain, they are only walking back a sub-section of the new restrictions for end users, which is not enough IMO.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Friday May 01, @07:46AM
I look out my window at electricity pylons and see a wonder of engineering. I realise it is built not by artists or great engineers, but by a few guys in a cherry picker; but that in itself is a wonder. We live in an age of miracles.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 01, @01:26PM
Remember television? It was touted as an educational device, early on. And, it really COULD BE, with the right mindset. And, what has it turned in to? Nothing more than an advertising media, punctuated with mind rotting entertainment.
We're gonna be able to vacation in Gaza, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran and maybe Minnesota soon. Incredible times.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Bentonite on Friday May 01, @07:15AM (8 children)
google has walked nothing back.
They've still altered the deal - now there will be a restriction that you can't install software without waiting a day - pray that google doesn't alter the deal further.
The normies did not tolerate microsoft dictating that software on windows can only be installed via the microsoft store (yes, there was a version of windows you couldn't install .exe's on, without taking a day to go and pay for a full window license, that I can't remember the name of), but when google does it, it's tolerated and a good thing.
A year or so later, google will "discover", "scam pressure tactics that work over a day" and implement the original plans.
Whether there is backlash against another antifeature of proprietary software, the tactic is always to pretend to walk it back, wait till backlash dies down and then implement it anyway.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by anubi on Friday May 01, @08:42AM (7 children)
Will it alter that which is already installed?
I had the stock calendar fail in quite a few Android phones that I had set up for senior citizens during "community service" senior service visits (no, I am not compelled to; I do this in remembrance of a young guy who showed me how to use an Android phone I found on a ledge outside a Del Taco fast food eatery.)
I took the phone home, I had a USB charging cable that fit, and charged it. I still didn't know what to do with it. But it did turn on and show a full charge. I brought it back to Del Taco. There was a kid I had met there. He had a cellphone, I showed him what I had. He knew what I had. It wasn't locked. He showed me about the little symbols and what they did. He volunteered to call the numbers he found in the phone, and he placed calls. Yes, others answered, he identified the call was coming from a found phone, could he contact the owner, and tell him his phone is with the manager at the Del Taco ? I left the phone with the manager, who also called him to confirm he had the phone and who would be asking for it, just to make sure the phone was returned to its owner. I got a lesson in how to use it, as well as my first introduction into how to side load and delete apps. This was when cellphones were *very* expensive. They were a hot theft item as drug dealers wanted them to place anonymous drug deals
Remembering my own ignorance, I am also very understanding of setting up cellphones for other senior citizens.
I set them up with these:
https://www.hsn.com/search?store=&query=Motorola+tracfone [hsn.com]
The cheap ones.
I sideload them with offline maps / GPS locator. , compass, notepads, voice recorders, calendars ( ETAR ), magnifiers, and other whatnots I think a Senior Citizen can use, even to who to call if this person becomes lost or disoriented .
If nothing else, a contact back to the senior center so someone can go round 'em back up and get 'em home.
I am a senior citizen,. Having my stuff suddenly behave differently is a major frustration. It's as mean as rearranging the furniture in a blind person's apartment
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 4, Informative) by Bentonite on Friday May 01, @11:10AM (6 children)
At the moment, there are no plans to alter what is already installed.
But google does in fact have a backdoor to remotely delete and install apps (it's now implemented by Google Play Services (GPS)); https://www.computerworld.com/article/1536973/google-throws-kill-switch-on-android-phones-2.html [computerworld.com]
At any stage, for any device that has the GPS rootkit installed, google could decide that 3rd party software is too "unsafe" and uninstall it all (but the current profits from all the surveillance means that google is unlikely to do something that will actually stop a significant number of people from ceasing to use Android - but they've done a lot of bad things in the past that have been accepted by most).
GPS is included on most Android devices (I haven't checked, but I would assume the Motorola tracfone does) - to have an Android device without it, the only option is really "LineageOS", but that is a real pain in the neck to install and has limited device support; https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ [lineageos.org]
LineageOS may not include the GPS rootkit, but it still includes the backdoor software of the device manufacturer (otherwise the device doesn't work).
Despite the capability to remotely brick Android devices, most manufacturers for the moment don't bother, as time alone bricks Android devices just fine (the glued-in battery makes the device useless after a few years).
Even if you manage to replace the battery, eventually the TLS root certificates expire and then the device cannot connect to websites over HTTPS (GPS now has a function where it updates the root certs) - updating them manually needs root and is difficult (if you get it wrong, you trip SELinux and the device is bricked unless you made a backup with TWRP and restore that backup).
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 01, @01:35PM (5 children)
Well, let's be realistic about Lineage, or even Graphene. If there is a rootkit on the phone, that rootkit is activacted before the OS is started. It's a little hard, but not impossible, to believe that every phone manufacturer permits a Google rootkit be installed on their phones. In effect, that would require an underlying SOC that the manufacturers don't understand it's real purpose. Assuming no underlying rootkit hidden in the hardware, I don't think that Lineage or Graphene are in danger.
We're gonna be able to vacation in Gaza, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran and maybe Minnesota soon. Incredible times.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by anubi on Saturday May 02, @03:31AM
Thanks for that. I really need to learn how to change out OS on these phones, for the main reason of insuring consistency of operation.
As I stated before, it is a major frustration for me to deal with inconsistent technology.
I noted my main phone, the one I pay a monthly service from T-Mobile ( unlimited plan with tethering - which I use to channel Internet to another phone - ban expired HSN moto cheapie ) to access stuff like Amazon, eBay, Healthcare, and others having legitimate need for my accurate identity. The cheapie phone never leaves the house. It is the one with my personal information in it. It is tethered to my T-Mobile phone as required to conduct intended business. I have other expired HSN Tracfones I use for general browsing.( and porn ... It's risky. It won't be the first time I have had to reset that phone to factory because someone left me a nasty ).
I got a surprise late last year. I was visiting a friend in the hospital ( Kaiser ), and my Plan phone ( that I carry with me ) found and logged onto Kaiser's network . It was configured for guests. No logon required.
My phone found it, downloaded an update, and installed it without me doing a thing. All I got was a splash screen that my phone had been successfully updated. It hasn't worked right since.
It's slower, sometimes freezes and resets in the middle of things. I can't go back. These were side loaded apps. It worked fine once. It doesn't anymore. The phone had unproxied access to the internet.
This is the basis for my distrust of the internet.
An acquaintance of mine let his old WIN7 box see his home router. His WIN 7 box lost activation. It still worked, but constantly gave black background and activation reminders, and we know the activation servers no longer exist, even though he has a "perpetual license".
So, just to keep things running, I fear letting any of my older technology see an unproxied corporate or public internet.
I had to agree to gawd-knows-what legalese to get connection in the first place. They wouldn't be demanding "hold harmless" unless they were probably doing it, and wanted to make Damm sure I can't do a thing about it.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Bentonite on Saturday May 02, @08:03AM (3 children)
Every tracking device that is not from google has a non-google rootkit - the mobile chipset (for example; https://redmine.replicant.us/projects/replicant/wiki/SamsungGalaxyBackdoor). [replicant.us]
LineageOS or GrapheneOS isn't going to save you from the mobile chipset, even if IOMMU actually works, as both ship the proprietary call/sms/data handling libraries (Replicant is the only Android version that has replaced such libraries with free replacements).
Almost all phone manufacturers installs "google play services" - which is google's main rootkit, but it seems google could be inserting backdoors into each app via its proprietary SDK.
Even f-droid uses google's proprietary SDK to build everything; https://f-droid.org/docs/Installing_the_Server_and_Repo_Tools/#proprietary-non-free-libraries [f-droid.org]
(Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 03, @02:58AM (2 children)
On Lineage, Google Play Services seems to play pretty fast and loose, if you install it. On Graphene, GPS is sandboxed, and doesn't get direct access to sensors or anything, unless/until you grant that access. And, therein lies the problem with some bank apps not working. I learned recently that using my own bank app can be problematic when trying to deposit a check to my account. I must be somewhere that I get a direct carrier signal, and it won't work if your only connection is a WIFI connection. Depositing checks isn't a common practice, so I've only discovered the issue in the last few days. I don't' know how relevant the check deposit is to all of that, but fact is, GPS is sandboxed, and does NOT have free reign on your device. In fact, you may elect to not even install the Playstore, in which case, you don't have GPS at all.
I agree that the chipset may harbor what you're calling a rootkit - but I think you are off track with the Google Play Services. Nothing really requires you to install GPS at all - only the individual's desire to enable what may be unnecessary features.
We're gonna be able to vacation in Gaza, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran and maybe Minnesota soon. Incredible times.
(Score: 2) by Bentonite on Sunday May 03, @11:00AM (1 child)
Considering that sandbox bypasses are constantly found, I wouldn't trust a sandbox to prevent such a remotely updating rootkit to prevent it from accessing anything.
It would be a surefire bet to bet on, that years down the line, it would be realized that GPS had nonfree reign over google's devices, no matter what kind of sandbox that was used.
The solution is to never be used by bank cr...apps - if a bank does not work without a cr...app, it is critically important that you go to the bank and demand that they transfer every cent to a bank that at least allows access to funds via a website (at least it'll be possible that way to deny execution of 3rd party malware scripts and hopefully in the future it'll be feasible to replace the banks proprietary JavaScript with free software - even though that would likely require spoofing JS fingerprinting).
You should still consider that even with less unreasonable access, to what should be your money, any money in a bank is the bank's money and not yours.
GPS and the played stored are different programs.
I just linked that GPS gives google the ability to delete and install arbitrary software - even if GPS somehow didn't contain a rootkit, google could add one at any time.
The mobile chipset is required to contain a backdoor - otherwise IMEI's will not be assigned, which are required to connect to mobile networks.
The amount of processing power and RAM GPS burns doing nothing visible cannot be explained by anything but rootkit functionality.
GPS contains no features, what it primarily contains is antifeatures such as "play protect" (more accurately, played restrict) - I was thinking that a potential feature was the functionality that automatically updates TLS certs when those are about to expire, but then I realized that would be just as useful for MiTMing TLS, as well google could install another root cert on a device that was to be MiTM'd and TLS could be then easily MiTM'd without a single certificate error.
The "move certs" program with root does offer that feature maybe without a rootkit and you choose what the TLS root certs will be that way.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 03, @01:00PM
I guess I should have spelled out that I was using GPS as shorthand for Google Play Store to eliminate confused responses. Sorry 'bout that. Point is, if Google Play Store (GPS for this limited use case) is not even installed, it can't do anything. Bank apps are the primary failure point for people using GrapheneOS - they want their bank apps to work.
Given the general thrust of your response, I can only tell you that MOST OF THE WORLD demands certain features on their phones. You and I may buck that trend, but we aren't changing the direction in which the world is going. If you don't want a bank app - don't install a bank app. This is generally good advice, even among the sheeple who believe that Google and the rest have their best interests at heart.
Despite your link telling us that GPS can arbitrarily run code that Google wants run - if GPS is sandboxed, then GPS isn't exactly free to run remote code. Maybe GPS will get out of the sandbox, but you haven't offered evidence that it has done so on GrapheneOS.
GPS does enable features that many people demand. GrapheneOS seems to block or mitigate most, or all of GPS' antifeatures. If there are serious problems of which I am unaware, please, point them out, and offer citations.
Bottom line, if you have any device with cellular network services enabled, you cannot completely escape the surveillance networks. Graphene goes a long, long way toward enabling you to control that surveillance.
We're gonna be able to vacation in Gaza, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran and maybe Minnesota soon. Incredible times.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Bentonite on Friday May 01, @07:03AM (13 children)
If you want freedom, you need to stop using such tracking devices and use real computers instead.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01, @07:30AM (10 children)
It ain't the technology. It's the mindset behind who made it.
I wouldn't trust a Microsoft Cat Feeder. My fear would be returning to discover my cat, dead, hoping for it's water and food, who died watching a blue screen of death in the display. I still remember breaking into fits of uncontrollable laughter upon being shown a Microsoft Phone during a mall visit.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Unixnut on Friday May 01, @07:47AM (8 children)
Well, yes. "Real Computers" where made at a time when the mindset was of "personal computers", namely personal, yours, to do with you as you wish, without a big corporate dictating to you or monitoring you.
Before then you had timeshare systems, where you rented compute power from a big company who had a powerful computer and you connected to it via a thin-terminal (and yes they would monitor what you did, primarily to prevent "abuse"). Terminal services in effect, not unlike modern cloud but on a lower level. Personal computers were a reaction to that, a push to decentrialise compute power and give every person their own machine to run what they wanted on it.
It got even better then they reverse engineered the BIOS, and suddenly thousands of clones could come to market cheaply, preventing anyone from controlling the base layer of the system. Very much the peak of open computing. No binary blobs, a BIOS simple enough to reverse engineer (and even read the reverse engineered output to see everything it can do) and a system that could be modified at will.
I think most of use grew up in this time, for me that what a "real computer" is (ironic as originally PC's were seen as toys, and the big corporate machines were "real computers" due to their power and capabilities).
For me even the raspberry pi does not fully qualify as it had to boot a proprietary binary blob before the OS can load, let alone anything running Android. Nothing since the original BIOS x86 machines has been as open, and we are progressing in the wrong direction, towards more lockdown and monitoring.
As AC above said, the problem is the mind-set of those who are making these systems, at some point in the last decade or so the mind-set shifted away from openness and towards locking people in so as to be able to exploit and control them (mostly for financial gain).
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01, @02:21PM (7 children)
Calling the proprietary PC BIOS the pinnacle of user-controlled computing takes some seriously rose-tinted glasses.
In the 1980s we accepted that the presence of the proprietary BIOS was merely irrelevant, because it was not easily replaceable, didn't really do anything particularly interesting, and you didn't actually need to use it for anything once the OS handoff was complete. This all stopped being the case in the early 1990s when SMM functionality was added to the 486 and Am386 and then ACPI came along which ruined everything even more, although for the most part we continued to ignore the problem because at the time computer vendors still at least pretendend to behave reasonably.
While it is also proprietary, Sun "Open"Boot is massively more empowering for computer users than the PC BIOS ever was, and this was used on systems produced well into the 2000s. A similar system is found on IBM POWER machines (a massively feature-reduced version of this was used on various Power Macintoshes) but I'm not sure if it was ever as capable as what is on Sun machines.
Raptor Computing Systems is still (for now) making and selling POWER9-based workstations and all of the software on these machines right down to the metal is free software. Everything you need to modify, build and install the firmware is literally included in the box. Nobody else is doing anything like this. The wider free software community doesn't seem to give a shit. People are happy to spend their money on computers that are locked down and come chock full of proprietary spyware.
(Score: 3, Informative) by turgid on Friday May 01, @02:56PM (4 children)
While it is also proprietary, Sun "Open"Boot is massively more empowering for computer users than the PC BIOS ever was, and this was used on systems produced well into the 2000s. A similar system is found on IBM POWER machines (a massively feature-reduced version of this was used on various Power Macintoshes) but I'm not sure if it was ever as capable as what is on Sun machines.
And the FOSS implementation is here [openbios.org].
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01, @07:59PM (2 children)
As far as I know OpenBIOS does not run on any real machine though, only emulated ones, and is pretty much exclusively intended for booting a handful of specific operating systems in the emulation.
In particular, I do not believe OpenBIOS implements any of the debugging features that are available on real Sun workstations (these are of course not really useful on an emulated system, but fantastically useful on a real system).
(Score: 3, Informative) by Bentonite on Saturday May 02, @08:06AM (1 child)
It seems the only working free BIOS is SeaBIOS, which works on real machines, although it doesn't handle much hardware init aside from support for executing proprietary Option EEPROM's.
Still, when it comes to booting GNU/Linux-libre, GNU GRUB kind of gives a better experience than SeaBIOS.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 05, @07:17PM
Please note that despite the name, OpenBIOS is not a PC-compatible BIOS but an implementation of Open Firmware (IEEE-1275). While it serves a similar purpose it is not at all the same thing as SeaBIOS.
Systems which use Open Firmware include Sun SPARC workstations and servers, IBM POWER workstations and servers and the PCI-based Power Macintoshes.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by anubi on Saturday May 02, @03:41AM
Remember, the Source Code to BIOS was included - in printed hardcopy clear text - in the PC-XT technical manual.
Our software guy had a copy. He used it to code a TMS9900 in Assembler, to write a floppy disk that a PC could read.
They were trying to get people to trust computers by offering means to verify them, as well as be compatible with them .
These days no one gives a damn whether or not I trust it. It's all about using pressure of any kind to compel me to accept their terms and conditions.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by Bentonite on Saturday May 02, @07:48AM (1 child)
The issue with POWER9 workstations that that those are so expensive that only the rich can afford them.
Even if you can afford one, last time I checked, raptorcs still hasn't finished the RAMinit (despite charging a fortune) and therefore you don't get the convenience of ACPI S3.
The free software community instead tends to support GNUboot, which instead supports more reasonably priced hardware that can run with a 100% free software BIOS; https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuboot/status.html [gnu.org]
ACPI S3 works with all supported ThinkPads.
The KGPE-D16 is significantly cheaper, while being comparable to the POWER9 motherboards (raptorcs ported support for the KGPE-D16 originally and didn't finish the RAMinit), but RAMinit has recently seen significant improvements by https://15h.org/ [15h.org] and I would expect ACPI S3 to be working soon™.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 05, @06:50PM
If nobody is willing to put their money where there mouth is, soon there will be nobody making machines which respect your freedom. They are not super cheap but it is a stretch to say you have to be rich to afford them. Adjusting for inflation, the cost is pretty close to what a G5 Power Macintosh cost when new.
If you are looking to spend a bit less coin there are tons of used POWER9 processors available nowadays. Make sure you get the SMT4 Sforza type as IBM made a few different incompatible variations. I believe any such processor can work, although the firmware contains tables of voltages and boost frequencies for each CPU, and you may need to modify this if you buy a CPU which is not one of the models sold by Raptor. Also note that the Blackbird motherboard specifically is only meant for up to 160W CPUs (you could perhaps get away with underclocking a more powerful CPU).
My understanding is that POWER8 heatsinks are physically compatible, you can find these used as well. You might want to 3D print a fan shroud as well, since all of IBMs actual systems would be installed in a ducted rackmount chassis.
RAM initialization obviously works fine on the POWER9 workstation. As far as I am aware, these machines have the only free software implementation of DDR4 training in existence. RAM module compatibility seems good (like you should expect from a commercial product).
They don't support ACPI at all. The interface between the firmware and the operating system is called OPAL. Suspend doesn't seem particularly useful to me on a workstation which is connected to mains, so I have never attempted it to see if it is even possible. That being said there is a post on the Raptor forums that states "I also tried suspend to RAM on Fedora 39 and it works for me."
The KGPE-D16 is not being made anymore. It is obviously cheaper because you can only buy used motherboards and used processors. Eventually every single one of these motherboards will end up in the hands of enthusiasts, asshole speculators, salvaged for parts, or the landfill. It is only a matter of time.
When the KGPE-D16 was new it came full of proprietary software and was probably also quite expensive (I was not able to determine how much these cost when still in production).
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday May 01, @01:32PM
Almost. If there is centralized control, you can be sure that eventually someone will use that to increase their power. It doesn't matter how benevolent or uncaring the current holder of control is, that will eventually change. This will remain true until the control is owned by a self-sufficient AI...and probably not change then.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01, @09:34AM (1 child)
Unfortunately, DECSYSTEM-20s are both uncommon and not exactly pocket¹ or satchel² sized, otherwise I would....
--
¹ ok, so I run an emulator of one using simh on my phone when I'm bored, but, somehow it just ain't quite the same...
² cf. ¹, and on my Netbook, and on my Laptop.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by HiThere on Friday May 01, @01:34PM
Is that the one where you needed to buy all of your floppy disks preformatted from the company?
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Mojibake Tengu on Friday May 01, @08:02AM (2 children)
Still in weak touch with cyberpunk underground currents, recently I observed people linked to both a significant distro corporation and kernel have active development of Linux for phones. At the kernel level.
Their portfolio now spans about dozen or two of originally Android models fully replaceble OS with clean Linux brand. And they already started to teach their methods to public. Otherwise I would not mention it here.
Well, enough negative political pressure provokes activism. Always. That's Humanity.
As Android will turn more and more fascist, it will inevitably follow the fate of Windows CE. This already happened. We did the same with PDA's about 20 years ago. Remeber Familiar Linux on Zaurus, Compaq iPAQ and HP Jornada?
It can be done. It will be done. Again.
Rust programming language offends both my Intelligence and my Spirit.
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Friday May 01, @09:41AM
Why not share this new Linux project with us? No doubt it would be of interest, and perhaps some of us can contribute in some way.
Saying that, there have been alternative Linux based OSes for phones for a while. I mentioned the Nokia N810 earlier above, which ran Meego (a Debian deriative). That itself spawned Maemo (Nokia N900, which I also had) and after MS got its claws into Nokia and killed it, the OS spawned off into Sailfish OS [wikipedia.org] and they provide the own "Jolla" smartphone with it installed (if you don't want to work on getting it running on one of their support third party devices).
I actually forgot about it, because when they launched for some odd reason they restricted downloads and contributors to be from the EU only, However I had a look on the site now and it seems there are no restrictions anymore, except if you want to buy the Jolla phone (which is EU, UK and Norway only).
So that might be worth looking into. It has some proprietary blobs, which is a side effect of embedded development (HW manufacturers tend to insist on NDAs for certain components, so you can't open source them), but it otherwise seems open source (based on QT). I'm going to need a new phone soon, so this may be an option, especially the Android compatibility layer, because much as I may dislike Android, some apps I have to use (e.g. banking/government ones) are only Android and IOS.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01, @01:48PM
Make what you will of this query.
https://x.com/i/grok/share/2f6336db437d43e283e09777b9bc7a3d [x.com]
(Score: 2, Disagree) by DadaDoofy on Friday May 01, @09:49AM (1 child)
"Independent developers, church and community groups, and hobbyists alike will all be frozen out of being able to develop and distribute their software."
But earlier in the very same paragraph it says:
"every Android app developer must register centrally with Google before their software can be installed on any device."
WTF? Having to jump through hoops you don't like to do something, does't mean you can't do it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday May 01, @11:05AM
Which means Google gets the ability to refuse that registration and prevent your app from ever getting anywhere for any arbitrary reason they like.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 4, Interesting) by SomeGuy on Friday May 01, @11:31AM
My Unisonic 6434 has never run "apps" It sits on my desk and I can use it to talk to people.
It is mine an until the day the phone company pulls the plug (digital "landline" support is still available). Nobody else has their grubby fingers in it.