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Breaking News
posted by martyb on Saturday September 23, @12:29AM   Printer-friendly
from the head-for-the-hills dept.

As if the onslaught of hurricanes Irma and Maria were not enough, the National Weather Service in San Juan is reporting that a major dam is failing in Puerto Rico and that 70,000 people are being evacuated by bus. From CBS:

The National Weather Service in San Juan said Friday that the northwestern municipalities of Isabela and Quebradillas, home to some 70,000 people, were being evacuated with buses because the nearby Guajataca Dam was failing after Hurricane Maria hit the U.S. territory.

Maria poured more than 15 inches of rain on the mountains surrounding the dam, swelling the reservoir behind it.

Details remained slim about the evacuation with communications hampered after the storm, but operators of the dam reported that the failure was causing flash-flooding downstream. The 345-yard dam holds back a man-made lake covering about 2 square miles and was built decades ago, U.S. government records show.

"Move to higher ground now," the weather service said in a statement. "This is an extremely dangerous and life-threatening situation. Do not attempt to travel unless you are fleeing an area subject to flooding or under an evacuation order."

"Act quickly to protect your life," it added. "Buses will be evacuating people from these areas."

Wikipedia has a page about Guajataca Dam

NWS report on Twitter; also at Al Jazeera and BBC.


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  • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by jasassin on Saturday September 23, @12:33AM (2 children)

    by jasassin (3566) <jasassin@gmail.com> on Saturday September 23, @12:33AM (#571916) Journal

    $DIETY$ is not smiling upon these people. It made me stop to wonder.

    --
    jasassin@gmail.com Key fingerprint = 0644 173D 8EED AB73 C2A6 B363 8A70 579B B6A7 02CA
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @01:16AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @01:16AM (#571925)

      She's pushing humans that much closer to a near extinction event, based on some of the most ignorant comments I read in the last Puerto Rico thread.

      70,000 people. This will be a cataclysm indeed.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @04:54PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @04:54PM (#572131)

      > oh no deity who did not save dinosaurs, enabling us to dominate the earth, is at it again.

      If you fire up a couple neurons, you get that a universe where god always enforces justice is an empty one. If god doesn't enforce, any amount of tolerance is equally arbitrary. Free not to worship any inherently un-perceivable god, but avoid BS please.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by c0lo on Saturday September 23, @12:38AM (3 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @12:38AM (#571917)

    That's Dam' breaking news

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Saturday September 23, @05:46AM (2 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Saturday September 23, @05:46AM (#572005) Journal

      Sounds like science is well on it's way to another correct prediction. [weather.com]

      Hmm....I wonder if we could apply these principles to predict other changes to the climate.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @04:12PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @04:12PM (#572122)

        According to NOAA, "The outlook reflects our expectation of a weak or non-existent El Niño, near- or above-average sea-surface temperatures across the tropical Atlantic Ocean and Caribbean Sea and average or weaker-than-average vertical wind shear in that same region."

        Strong El Niños typically lead to increased wind shear in parts of the Atlantic Basin, suppressing the development or intensification of tropical cyclones in the Atlantic, so the prediction for weak conditions increased the chance for more activity this season.

        It seems like everything that happens with weather gets blamed on this el nino all the time. Apparently it does work in the case of hurricanes though.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @04:17PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @04:17PM (#572123)

          There is no consensus on whether climate change will have any influence on the occurrence, strength or duration of El Niño events, as research supports El Niño events becoming stronger, longer, shorter and weaker.[20][21]

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Ni%C3%B1o [wikipedia.org]

          Damn, this seems like one of the most important predictions to make.

  • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @01:09AM (42 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @01:09AM (#571921)

    This is a U.S. Territory, is it not? Where is the U.S. Government response to the suffering of these people? Instead, they fight to take Health Care aware from people, and jam Voodoo Economics 2.0 through Congress.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 23, @01:17AM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @01:17AM (#571926) Journal

      Ho-hum. The US is already working to restore power and to help people in not one, but TWO disaster areas. Maybe the US response in PR is a little slow, maybe it isn't. But, there IS a response. The Mayor of NYC was quoted this morning on the radio, promising all the aid that he can muster. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/21/bill-de-blasio-nyc-mayor-announces-relief-efforts-/ [washingtontimes.com] Kentucky is sending aid in the form of the National guard, http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2017/09/21/kentucky-national-guard-hurricane-relief/689387001/ [courier-journal.com]

      I don't know how much other cities and states are doing, but apparently, neither do you. The feds may or may not be doing anything - would you care to find citations, or do I have to do all your work?

      --
      #Hillarygropedme
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by jmorris on Saturday September 23, @01:29AM (2 children)

      by jmorris (4844) Subscriber Badge <jmorrisNO@SPAMbeau.org> on Saturday September 23, @01:29AM (#571929)

      There is no functioning infrastructure remaining. They have to get a port, airport, something up and going. Even then it is a lot easier to roll a convoy of ulility trucks from Mississippi to Texas than to PR. Same goes for fleets of rigs from Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, etc. You can't just load up some trucks at warehouses that are still working and start rolling in as soon as the trees are cleared from the roads. Any sea transport is probably too slow for the short term relief efforts, only a massive airlift can help right now. And it is doubtful the supplies would do much more than pile up at the airport at the moment.

      Due to decades of misrule their government, infrastructure, everything is at Detroit levels of failure with third world attitudes to everything. Look at pictures of their electrical grid from before. You see those sort of random wires stealing electricity in the third world. They ain't getting that sorted out anytime soon. It is doubtful anything but the big modern buildings in the cities had any insurance, nobody had a pot to piss in before and even if they had a job most of them won't be back for some time. The only jobs will be reconstruction, thankfully those will be in good supply IF the money comes from somewhere.

      And the only reason we aren't hearing about widespread looting yet is the collapsed communication infrastructure combined with there being so little left to steal.

      The only positive is they don't have to worry about winter. Given food, water and basic sanitation the only hard requirement from the modern world will be getting hospitals back up soon. Advantages of living in a tropical paradise. Even those basics will be a massive undertaking though, Trump and his people better get tehir A game on because it is a certainty they will be blamed, not the generations of incompetence that lead to this disaster. Hurricanes are a natural occurrence in the tropics, the fact they were this ill prepared is entirely on them.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by urza9814 on Saturday September 23, @01:48AM (1 child)

        by urza9814 (3954) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @01:48AM (#571937) Journal

        And the only reason we aren't hearing about widespread looting yet is the collapsed communication infrastructure combined with there being so little left to steal.

        Or maybe we're actually hearing reality and nobody is bothering to invent and exaggerate such reports. Studies show that there is no "widespread looting" after disasters, the media just chooses to push that narrative because it drives ratings. It can significantly harm relief efforts, but they don't care as long as they're getting paid. Probably not enough people give a damn about PR, and they're getting enough mileage out of the looting narrative from the gulf. Not that looting doesn't ever happen of course...but in general the crime rate goes down after disasters like this, not up.

        http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-harvey-looting-20170901-story.html [chicagotribune.com]
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2496928/ [nih.gov]

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 23, @02:33AM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @02:33AM (#571952) Journal

          That second link is especially informative, Urza. Thank you!

          --
          #Hillarygropedme
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday September 23, @01:34AM (2 children)

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @01:34AM (#571932) Homepage Journal

      They brought the hurricane on through God's punishment...punishment for their pinche Reggaeton ruido.

      God gives a chance for the damned to condone for their sins. Unfortunately for them, God has limited patience.

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 23, @02:01AM (1 child)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @02:01AM (#571945) Journal

        Personally, I condone a lot of sins - all of my own, in fact. Some I can't condone, though. As for atonement, ehhh, that's to hard for some of us.

        What is your BAC tonight, Eth? You know you can't spell for shit when it's over 3.2.

        --
        #Hillarygropedme
        • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by c0lo on Saturday September 23, @02:52AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @02:52AM (#571961)

          What is your BAC tonight, Eth? You know you can't spell for shit when it's over 3.2.

          Yeah, he has troubles with simple word like "shit".
          Words in the more extended vocabulary however requires him at a higher BAC.
          Case at point, I reckon he wanted a phase around the "condom" word; too low a BAC and look how silly it turned.

          (grin)

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @02:42AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @02:42AM (#571956)

      As Irma approached, USA.gov -could- have made every Amtrak train and every cruise ship and every military transport available to Florida residents to evacuate them.
      ...but it didn't.

      People in Florida who are wealthy and could pay the price to get out did that.
      ...but, again, in the USA, people who aren't rich don't matter.

      Isn't Capitalist Oligarchy wonderful?

      ...and Puerto Rico isn't even a state.
      It's a colonial possession without even a vote in Congress.

      Isn't empire great?

      -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday September 23, @02:57AM

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @02:57AM (#571964)

        Isn't empire great?

        No, not yet.
        Somehow the court's fool has been set on the throne, he needs the empire still weak (but not too weak) if he is to stay there
        Because otherwise he can't justify his existence #MAGAAA

      • (Score: 1, Redundant) by jmorris on Saturday September 23, @03:28AM

        by jmorris (4844) Subscriber Badge <jmorrisNO@SPAMbeau.org> on Saturday September 23, @03:28AM (#571981)

        What the Hell are you babbling about? The body count in FL was lower than a typical weekend in Chicago. People were inconvenienced but not harmed. The people who needed to evacuate, those in vulnerable spots, weak structures, etc. found shelter. Only a few even needed a rescue.

        Houston was a different problem because that storm developed very suddenly and by the time the danger was apparent there was simply no way to get everyone out in time. It is a very large city with insufficient highway capacity to get everyone to safety. They tried it in the past and the evacuation killed more people than the storm. They are going to need a long term solution to that problem yet they too have affirmative action leadership incapable of it.

        PR also apparently, despite being a failed state Hellhole, has managed to avoid massive casualties. Property damage, yes, human toll, no.

        And until they start building things to withstand the hurricanes they know are going to come by every so often, that is on them. They gambled, they lost, they didn't even have insurance, end of story. A totally expected event should be a bad thing when it finally happens but if it is a "disaster" that is your lack of planning being revealed. I'm tired of FEMA running into these disaster zones and dumping Sagans of cash out of helicopters. Fix the damaged infrastructure, so a little to help people impacted get a loan to rebuild, help with the short term losses and expenses but don't just cover everything, and then get the Hell back out. If there is no pain there will be no learning, meaning we will be asked to bail them out next time.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 23, @01:40PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @01:40PM (#572095) Journal

        Well, Pal, as you have deduced, this is the USA. All those people had options, before the hurricane hit. They could move a few miles inland, to stay with friends or relatives. They could have moved a lot of miles inland, and stayed with a distant relative in Kentucky, or Kansas, or even Montreal. They could have spent some money on weather-proofing their homes. They could have vacationed in Paris until the storm was over - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris%2C_Texas [wikipedia.org] Some may have preferred to vacation in Mexico - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%2C_Missouri [wikipedia.org] or even Moscow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow%2C_Pennsylvania [wikipedia.org]

        But, a LOT of people just hunkered down, and made the best of it.

        You know, people are free to do that here, if they want. I mean, who wants the gubbermint to come in, kidnap you at gunpoint, bus you halfway across the nation, keep you under guard for weeks, then bus you back, only to find that your home was first blown to shit, then pilfered?

        Personally, I'm staying home if a disaster hits. I want the opportunity of shooting some looters. It's not often that hunting humans is legal, after all.

        --
        #Hillarygropedme
    • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @02:55AM (20 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @02:55AM (#571962)

      USA.gov has 19 aircraft carrier battle groups.
      It would be trivial to provision 4 or 5 of those with supplies, fill them with specialists, load every available helicopter onto them, and sail them to Puerto Rico.

      ...but brown people don't matter.
      ...and people who have no representation in Congress don't matter.

      Hell, people who ostensibly -do- have representation in Congress don't seem to matter.
      ...if they're not rich.

      -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Saturday September 23, @03:31AM (15 children)

        by jmorris (4844) Subscriber Badge <jmorrisNO@SPAMbeau.org> on Saturday September 23, @03:31AM (#571984)

        And had they begun that plan when the storm was predicted to hit they likely would still be steaming to a port to load up. Navies aren't fast, there are hard limits to how fast one can push a ship through water. An American carrier, with almost unlimited capacity for propulsion, can go somewhat (exact top speed is classified) faster if willing to leave the escorting fleet behind.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @03:50AM (14 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @03:50AM (#571990)

          Irma was moving at 14 knots.
          USA.gov's ships can't beat that?

          ...and a ship can launch helicopters when it's still over 100 miles away.
          It all depends on your priorities.
          Clearly, people who aren't rich don't count to USA.gov.

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

          • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Saturday September 23, @04:17AM (4 children)

            by jmorris (4844) Subscriber Badge <jmorrisNO@SPAMbeau.org> on Saturday September 23, @04:17AM (#571997)

            Just how many carrier battle groups do you think the US Navy keeps stationed in the Caribbean? The Spanish Main has not been a hot spot in a very long time. Blackbeard ain't coming back. Several are currently in the Korea area, several more in the Middle East. A couple will be in port at any particular time but probably can't be instantly put back into service. In case you haven't bothered to look, the world is NOT at peace right now. If we had a couple of spare carriers they would be deployed already.

            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @05:47AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @05:47AM (#572006)

              So, to be clear, "Defense" Department is complete hogwash.
              USA.gov militarism is all about aggression on the other side of the planet.

              -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

            • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Saturday September 23, @05:56AM (2 children)

              by bob_super (1357) on Saturday September 23, @05:56AM (#572013)

              > If we had a couple of spare carriers they would be deployed already.

              How much good are they sailing the Gulf, the Med, or the China Sea, when there are Americans in danger at home?
              Is it ten or eleven Navy carriers? How many Marine and helicopter ones?
              The French have their biggest active ship (their lone carrier is in dry dock) stationed by St Martin, to help less than 100k people. How many .mil ship helped in TX, FL, PR, where millions needed/need assistance?
              Quite a few, for sure. But nowhere near as massive a response as the most powerful country on the planet should muster for its own people, because they're too busy getting into someone else's business 100 degrees of longitude away.

              • (Score: 4, Informative) by jmorris on Saturday September 23, @06:14AM

                by jmorris (4844) Subscriber Badge <jmorrisNO@SPAMbeau.org> on Saturday September 23, @06:14AM (#572023)

                We don't station carriers near the U.S. because you don't need a carrier anywhere near U.S. waters for any mission. We have land bases. When there is working infrastructure to support it we can fly craploads of cargo directly from the mainland to PR, it will just be a lot more expensive than trucks. Get a clue. Carriers project air power to places where we have few or no airfields.

              • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday September 23, @08:03AM

                by realDonaldTrump (6614) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @08:03AM (#572040) Homepage Journal

                Trust me, I'm not sending an armada. Getting ready to destroy #NoKo & #OCare! 🇺🇸

                --
                Text TRUMP to 88022 for mobile alerts! Message&data rates apply. Text STOP to opt-out. T&C/Privacy: sms-terms.com/88022
          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 23, @10:38AM (8 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @10:38AM (#572065) Journal

            Irma was moving at 14 knots. USA.gov's ships can't beat that?

            Of course not. It would take weeks to months before a carrier group on the far side of the world could make it to Puerto Rico. If the US could teleport ships around, while not just teleport more supplies instead and skip the ships?

            I also see from googling around that there were ships in the area (such as this story [stripes.com]).

            Finally, let us note that this has been a bad season for hurricanes with two major ones before. It's dishonest to ignore the strain on logistics and other disaster relief resources this causes.

            Let's actually have evidence of negligence and malice first before we make accusations, ok?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @08:41PM (7 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @08:41PM (#572162)

              September 19, 2017

              Cuba Recovered and Open for Business [counterpunch.org]

              USA Today reported on Sept. 17 that the US government was providing humanitarian aid to numerous Caribbean islands devastated by Hurricane Irma. Cuba, located just 90 miles off the coast of Florida--was not among them.

              When Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans in 2005, Cuba was the first nation to offer aid. The island prepared thousands of volunteers and huge amounts of emergency equipment and supplies to assist the victims in the affected regions with all the expenses incurred by Cuba.

              Even on that occasion, [the gov't in] Havana organized a permanent aid brigade to send to to countries affected by natural disasters that was named after a US citizen, Henry Reeve (1850-1876), who fought in an outstanding way in the Cuban independence ranks against Spanish colonialism, and who rose to the rank of Brigadier General.

              The US government of George W. Bush rejected the magnanimous Cuban aid offer, in spite of the enormous humanitarian catastrophe that was unfolding in Louisiana at the time.

              Note, in addition, that that is the country which USA, in its effort to cripple every place that doesn't knuckle under to USA's push for global hegemony,[1] [counterpunch.org] has blockaded.

              [1] Not an especially short read, but it does make it clear just what USA.gov's major political goal has been since at least WWII.

              I bookmarked it as Vietnam Was Not A Victory For USA But It Was A Crushing Blow To Anti-Imperialism Movements Globally.[2]
              The article gets -really- good when he (author Paul Street) starts talking about Noam Chomsky, a towering intellect [google.com] whom you will never see on USAian Lamestream Media [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [counterpunch.org] ...as is the case with other informed voices you should be hearing. [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [commondreams.org]

              [2] You might compare that to USA's efforts WRT Bolivarian Venezuela today.

              -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 23, @10:46PM (6 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @10:46PM (#572183) Journal
                Puerto Rico isn't Cuba.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @11:10PM (5 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @11:10PM (#572187)

                  That obvious whoosing sound is the sound of an entire missed point whoosing over your head. Again.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday September 24, @05:03AM (4 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 24, @05:03AM (#572248) Journal
                    A red herring is not a missed point. The sudden introduction of Cuba, Vietnam War, Chomsky, etc is irrelevant to criticism of the US's handling of disaster relief in Puerto Rico. Further, Cuba, Vietnam, and Venezuela are all examples of "state capitalism" a system which OriginalOwner has claimed to disapprove of in the past and which tends to have enhanced trouble with natural disasters.
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 24, @05:18AM (3 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 24, @05:18AM (#572250)

                      So if a state capitalism can do that well, then what does that say about the handling of Puerto Rico by the United States?

                      I'm not finding gewg_ difficult to follow at all. She also brought up Florida. She's clearly looking at the forest you're missing.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 24, @06:57AM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 24, @06:57AM (#572255)

                        Wrong gender, but everything else you said is to my liking.

                        khallow won't admit that he knows that it can look a lot like one is moving up, when, in fact, what he is doing is keeping someone else down.
                        ...if you look at it through Reactionary eyes.

                        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday September 24, @01:00PM

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 24, @01:00PM (#572303) Journal

                          khallow won't admit that he knows that it can look a lot like one is moving up, when, in fact, what he is doing is keeping someone else down.

                          There's never been a reason here to "admit" that. Sure, I agree that your statement is correct (so now, I've admitted it, we can move on to relevant stuff, right?). But conversely that statement works against you as well. Moving up can look a lot like keeping someone else down, particularly, if you peer at the behavior through a warped, envious ideological lens with beliefs which don't accept that such things can happen.

                          What's particularly bizarre about your previous post is that you brought up three countries without a reason for bringing them up. We were speaking of Puerto Rico and the US's response there. Now suddenly, it's about Cuba, Vietnam, and Venezuela, only one of which has been affected by hurricanes this year. What's going on? Should the US be sending disaster relief to Vietnam or Venezuela for hurricanes that they didn't experience?

                          There's a single trait common to these three countries, anti-democratic "state capitalism". I already stated what I think is going on here. You have ideological blinders on. And one wonders just how much of your claims to advocate socialism are lip service as a result. If you can gloss over the rampant failure of these three countries so readily, then are you really for socialism (as you define socialism, with democracy, etc) or are you really for state capitalism (again as you define the term)?

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday September 24, @12:37PM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 24, @12:37PM (#572295) Journal

                        So if a state capitalism can do that well

                        "If". We already have established that it can't. No point to continuing the chain of logic, when it breaks right there.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 23, @10:19AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @10:19AM (#572061) Journal

        It would be trivial to provision 4 or 5 of those with supplies, fill them with specialists, load every available helicopter onto them, and sail them to Puerto Rico.

        You would put a quarter of the US navy in the Caribbean on the off chance that Puerto Rico gets hit by a hurricane? The regular merchant marine and cargo planes would be better positioned and more than adequate.

        ...but brown people don't matter.

        Nobody at the federal government has even had a chance to be racist yet. Race baiting is yet another form of racism. Funny how all these bad memes follow you around.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 23, @01:50PM (2 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @01:50PM (#572097) Journal

        19 full fledged carrier battle groups? Citations? Please, citations. Maybe you've been reading some stupidity such as this http://thediplomat.com/2014/04/does-the-us-navy-have-10-or-19-aircraft-carriers/ [thediplomat.com]

        CLUE: An amphibious assault ship is not a carrier. It will most likely operate within the air control sphere of a real aircraft carrier - that is, it is one PART OF a carrier battle group. The same cruisers and destroyers that protect the carrier will be guarding the amphib ships.

        So, we have TEN active carriers, some of which have mission commitments half a world away, some of which are in drydock for refit, some of which are aging near-derelicts. And, of course, all of those statuses apply to the various amphib ships which you want to designate as carriers.

        So, what do you propose we do with all those ships, exactly? Please, get specific. I really want to see your plan in great detail. Maybe you'll be so kind as to name the names of the ships that you want to incorporate into this battle group.

        The ball is in your court - don't drop it!!

        --
        #Hillarygropedme
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 24, @05:25AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 24, @05:25AM (#572251)

          Who will be shooting at the ship normally used for amphibious assault?

          I didn't realize a hurricane was a war. If we were to approach it as a war, I'd recommend deploying Jaegers. "When you're in a Jaeger, suddenly, you can fight the hurricane."

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 24, @07:42AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 24, @07:42AM (#572260) Journal

            Doesn't much matter who might be shooting at the Gator Navy - doctrine says they don't sail without an escort. If you want to change Navy doctrine, maybe you should become CNO.

            Is a hurricane a war? If you were a sailor, you might think that it was. The sea has killed more sailors than all wars combined. A complacent sailor is a dead sailor. As others have mentioned, it's almost as fast and easy to fly from CONUS to PR, and certainly much cheaper, as it is to station a huge ship in Puerto Rico. So, what is your preoccupation with the Navy? Maybe if you were using some other island, further from the continent, you might make some kind of point here.

            Let me ask you - how long do you think that it takes to load a ship with provisions? Naval ships aren't container ships, after all, nor are they bulk carriers, such as the famous Edmund Fitzgerald. By necessity, it is difficult to move around a warship. The hull is compartmentalized, to aid in the control of flooding. This means, people have to manually move all stores. I participated in a lot of replenishments, in port, and at sea. The operation is time consuming, always.

            You want to load out 20,000 tons of food and medical supplies? Someone already contributed to this discussion that it would take WEEKS to load out. Seriously - it would literally take WEEKS to load one of those huge-ass Gator ships, or an aircraft carrier. I just served aboard little destroyers, and it took a couple weeks of planning (including lead time on the requisition forms) plus about three days for us to load out for deployment. That didn't count the couple days it would take to load out ammunition. (loading and offloading nukes required two days alone, thanks to a myriad of restrictions and regulations)

            Now, you've had several reasons given why we aren't frantically loading supplies aboard our major ships of the line. Are you going to obsess further, or give it up?

            The Army, and especially the National Guard, are far better equipped to aid Puerto Rico than the Navy is. If any number of parameters were changed, you might find that the Navy is better equipped to deal with an emergency situation of this magnitude. In which case, it will still take weeks for the Navy to arrive on station with the required aid.

            Long story short - the Navy is happy to participate in humanitarian aid missions. But, the weak and the vulnerable are probably not going to last long enough for us to get there.

            --
            #Hillarygropedme
    • (Score: 2) by driven on Saturday September 23, @05:45AM (5 children)

      by driven (6295) on Saturday September 23, @05:45AM (#572003)

      As I understand, they aren't even able to help Florida much as most of the effort is going to helping Texas.

      • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @05:53AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @05:53AM (#572012)

        Since when is "The Cajun Navy" part of USA.mil?

        The response from USA.gov to any disaster during the Trump administration has been abysmal.
        ...or during any Repug administration in recent memory.

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 23, @01:53PM (3 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 23, @01:53PM (#572098) Journal

          "or during any Repug administration in recent memory"

          Your memory isn't very good, is it? When Katrina hit, the dummocrat mayor and the dummocrat governor spent DAYS (literally) dithering over nonsense. It wasn't until the repug president put a call in, and ASKED the dummocrats if they needed any help, that things began to happen.

          And, just how many disasters have you counted, since Trump was sworn in? Your language suggests that there have been an awful lot of them!!

          --
          #Hillarygropedme
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @04:19PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @04:19PM (#572124)

            so why is President Bush and his FEMA appointee so badly reported on as well?

            It took a team to mess it up. It didn't matter the political bent in that case, because the response and results were incompetent. I'd only have blamed politics if it seemed that someone smart was getting blocked by someone dumb.

            then the matter of promising to rebuild in the same places with little differences unless the owners wanted to pony up their own money for a house on stilts...

            i really wish that if they wanted to politicize global warming, then fine, but at least frame the infrastructure building, and insurance requirements with different words that reflect the realities of big business expenses and losses due to having to repeatedly rebuild what is being shown to be inappropriate due to recent events, even if they are repeated 1 in 100 year or 1 in 500 year or never before seen events.

            Even asphault is falling apart more quickly than it used to be because of some sort of unusual heat wave that is persisting despite there being no climate change. They could change the forumla and silently repave where needed and not draw attention to the fact they are spending more money now to save on the repeated maintenance later.

          • (Score: 4, Funny) by isostatic on Saturday September 23, @07:48PM

            by isostatic (365) on Saturday September 23, @07:48PM (#572159) Journal

            And, just how many disasters have you counted, since Trump was sworn in?

            Just one long one. It started January 20th.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @09:40PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @09:40PM (#572173)

            When Katrina hit, Dubya sat on his thumb instead of being proactive.
            The president is often called "The Chief Executive".

            Your memory isn't very good

            My memory is just fine.
            I remember Dubya saying "Heck of a job, Brownie" to a guy who had ZERO experience in disaster relief.
            That would be the guy who spent most of his time flying over New Orleans in his jet, not on the ground getting things going.

            ...then his buying a bunch of trailers that weren't fit for humans because of formaldehyde outgassing.

            I remember Cuba (which has a FEMA-like thing THAT IS ACTUALLY EFFECTIVE) offering help and Dubya turning it down.

            Ignoring the impoverished people of color in New Orleans was just another part of the Repug plan to disempower them even more (in addition to e.g dishonestly removing them from voter rolls).

            Naomi Klein wrote a book on the Repug attitude toward poor people's bad luck: just another chance to exploit them.
            The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism [google.com]

            how many disasters

            For anyone who isn't rich|Authoritarian, Trump has been one continuous disaster.

            -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 1) by darkpixel on Saturday September 23, @05:42PM (3 children)

      by darkpixel (4281) on Saturday September 23, @05:42PM (#572138)

      This is a U.S. Territory, is it not? Where is the U.S. Government response to the suffering of these people?

      Apparently you don't understand the purpose of government. Go back and read your constitution.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @09:55PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @09:55PM (#572175)

        Y'mean the part about "promote the general welfare"?

        the purpose of government

        I would define that as "doing the most good for the greatest number of its people".
        Your definition seems to be different.

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 1) by darkpixel on Sunday September 24, @05:09PM (1 child)

          by darkpixel (4281) on Sunday September 24, @05:09PM (#572377)

          If "promote the general welfare" means what you think it means, why does the government buy everyone a nice new shiny plasma TV?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 25, @01:19AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 25, @01:19AM (#572500)

            Wow. It's like I'm talking to a 4 year old.

            -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Saturday September 23, @05:40AM (2 children)

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Saturday September 23, @05:40AM (#572002) Journal

    So are we allowed to call Puerto Rico "destroyed" yet or is that still off the table?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @05:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @05:48AM (#572007)

      Not until every house is flattened and every person lies on the ground and says out loud that they are worthless scum that don't deserve to be in the USA.

    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by bob_super on Saturday September 23, @06:01AM

      by bob_super (1357) on Saturday September 23, @06:01AM (#572018)

      You should think of it more like a pretty rough washing machine cycle, with widespread damage.
      I mean, more widespread for some, because like every good cycle, we remembered to separate the whites from the colors.
      And soon they'll be left out to dry.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @09:21AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @09:21AM (#572051)

    Cue hyocritical hand-wringing and media outrage in 3, 2, 1...

    So another third-rate shithole is having a horrible natural disaster. Boo fucking hoo.

    Civilized areas like Florida and Texas react and respond effectively. Barbarian crapworlds like PR do not.

    For perspective, consider Bangladesh. Each and every year, since time began, the monsoons bring flooding and human suffering than dwarf PR's problems by orders of magnitude. Boring.

    Nobody gives a shit. Even the pope is too busy telling Europe it has a moral obligation to turn into Sierra Leone.

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @09:26AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 23, @09:26AM (#572053)

      Horror, I omitted a P in hypocritical!

      Grammar nazis can P off.

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