After 10 PM EST on Friday, The U.S. Senate rejected a deal that would fund the U.S. government for another month:
Only five Democrats voted to advance the bill — Sens. Joe Manchin (W.Va.), Joe Donnelly (Ind.), Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.) and Claire McCaskill (Mo.), who are all up for reelection this year in states carried by President Trump in 2016 election, and newly-elected Sen. Doug Jones (D-Ala.).
Republicans were also not united, as Sens. Rand Paul (Ky.), Lindsey Graham (S.C.), Mike Lee (Utah) and Jeff Flake (Ariz.) also voted against advancing the legislation. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who is battling brain cancer, was absent.
The procedural vote remained open late Friday, though it needed 60 votes to pass and was well short of that number with 48 senators voting against it.
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer continued to negotiate after the vote opened (archive), but no deal has been reached yet. As of midnight (5 minutes before this story went live), the government shutdown was in effect.
At Wikipedia: Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) and Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP). Government shutdowns in the United States.
- What's the Government Shutdown 'About'?
- D.C. Stays Open This Time Around — Even If Federal Government Shuts Down
- Senate Lacks Votes to Advance GOP Spending Bill: Shutdown Update
- The CHIP Debacle Shows Democrats Need to Put the Government on Autopilot
- 'We Have to Stand Our Ground.' Activists Push Democrats to Fight for DACA Recipients in Shutdown
- Shutdown? It Could Be Forgotten in a Trumpian Flash
- Analysis: Emboldened Democrats take a risk on a shutdown
Related Stories
The static test fire of the Falcon Heavy, already delayed several times in recent days, has now been delayed due to the U.S. government shutdown:
SpaceX will be unable to test fire its three-core Falcon Heavy rocket at Kennedy Space Center due to the government shutdown, further delaying checkout operations ahead of the rocket's demonstration flight, the 45th Space Wing said Sunday.
"Due to the shutdown removing key members of the civilian workforce, the 45th Space Wing will not be able to support commercial static fires taking place on KSC," the Wing said, further noting that launch operations at KSC and Cape Canaveral Air Force Station are also on hold until the shutdown is resolved.
SpaceX teams have fueled the 230-foot-tall Falcon Heavy rocket at pad 39A at least twice ahead of the static test fire, which is essentially a test before the test – engineers will examine data from the 12-second firing of the rocket's 27 Merlin main engines before giving the all clear to launch on its premiere mission.
General article about Falcon Heavy.
Previously: SpaceX to Attempt Landing Three Falcon Heavy Boosters on Pads
Elon Musk Says Successful Maiden Flight for Falcon Heavy Unlikely
Falcon Heavy Prepares for Debut Flight as Musk Urges Caution on Expectations
SpaceX Successfully Tests Falcon Heavy First Stage Cores
SpaceX's Falcon Heavy Rocket Sets Up at Cape Canaveral Ahead of Launch
Falcon Heavy Readied for Static Fire Test
U.S. Government Shutdown Starting on January 20, 2018
(Score: 2, Funny) by Sulla on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:06AM (61 children)
Is there a running tally of how much we are saving per second per taxpayer?
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Sulla on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:10AM (1 child)
Using 2017 Expenditures as the basis it looks like in the past 10 minutes I have saved 20 cents in taxes. For my whole family looks like a $1.
Cigar++
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:34AM
The man's anus once again squirted out some feces. However, did that mean it was his? No, it was mine. All mine. I immediately jumped on top of the hunk of feces and began impregnating it! The fecal womb squeezed my fetid little friend, causing me to feel immense pleasure. Ah, too good! Too good, too good, too good!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Whoever on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:39AM (51 children)
You misspelled "cost".
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/19/news/economy/government-shutdown-cost/index.html [cnn.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Sulla on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:08AM (3 children)
If it cost the federal government money to shutdown governments wouldn't be fixing budget gaps with furlough days.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:22AM (2 children)
If it saved money, they would shut down more often.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Sulla on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:37AM
States that actually have to keep a balanced budget do this often
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2016/11/24/for-many-state-employees-black-friday-is-a-holiday-its-just-not-a-paid-one/ [adn.com]
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/09/dont_forget_friday_is_another.html [oregonlive.com]
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:37AM
Ha! What reality are you living in? Cause it sure as hell ain't this one.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by aristarchus on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:34AM (46 children)
Sulla is like that, often confused, unable to realize that costs deferred are not debts forgiven. In fact, I am seriously starting to doubt the budgeting ability of almost all Republicans, and their basic math skills. $1.2 Trillion in deficits to fund your tax cuts, and you think a government shutdown will save money? You namesake cries at your simple math errors, Sulla!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Sulla on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:49AM (29 children)
Costs deferred are debts not incurred. A furlough day for the State of AK saves thousands for one day of not keeping the heat at 72 degrees, when people are not in the office buildings are left in a night mode to save on gas/electric costs. Water is not flowing unless where needed to protect pipes. A pre-encumbrance or encumbrance to pay for services only valid for specific days will not be approved, in some cases it means scheduling a tech for a later date but in others it means the goods are not required.
Paying for certain things like debts already incurred is a good idea, but these are something you can plan for ahead of time to avoid any additional fees. Oregon during furloughs does not shut down revenue collection agencies (alcohol stores, certain parks, etc) which is also a ggood move, but there are a lot of unnecessary expenses that can be avoided.
The Romans disbanded the army when not at war, when they stopped doing so they lost the Republic.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:51AM (6 children)
Even wikipedia says "cost"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States [wikipedia.org]
Lost labor
Money removed from economy
GDP takes a hit
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 5, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:40AM (5 children)
Wikipedia says whatever fits its staff's (paid or otherwise) worldviews. One of these days you may find that out, same as I did. On that day please refer to this post where I did indeed tell you so.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by Hyperturtle on Saturday January 20 2018, @02:44PM (3 children)
That's right; wikipedia used to be a bastion of knowledge and fact. It was glorious, once upon a time. It started with dedicated people with a knowledgebase they wanted to share, people eager to learn, and readers willing to volunteer their own knowledge.
Now it's just as trolled as anything else that gets soiled as soon as what we can call the mainstream masses (as opposed to media--because the mainstream media will now go to look at wikipedia and recite whatever falsehoods are there without much further fact checking, if any fact checking).
It's a case of politics ruining everything. That includes personal, petty, and governmental politics (it didn't start with governmental politics but I won't go into that any deeper than this). People rewrite their histories more favorably, or hire people to do it. People change other people's histories to look bad, or accuse them of things, or introduce outright lies and slander. Established scientific fact may be subtly altered just enough to be completely missed by the layperson and when actions taken to fix it, some bot or some corporate shill goes right back to state no that is allegedly causing cancer or behavioral issues or it truly is a miracle drug and lead is not so bad in candy if used responsibly and so on. Sometimes articles are updated to reflect new false data posted elsewhere to move some agenda and make it look that much more legit due to numerous sources being cited -- that are false, but look as if they are following the source and citation rules. Editors without knowledge in the subjet may have no idea BS has been introduced for someone else's gain.
Some of the best things in life are free, and some of the most ruined things started out that way as well... It's not ruined yet, but you still can't rely on it complicitly. I am guessing it's something TMB learned the hard way or unexpectedly... happened to me, too, then it all became clear.
Don't trust everything you read online, even if it seems to come from an authoritative source.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 20 2018, @03:30PM (1 child)
I kinda agree - but you exaggerate how good they once were. That "bastion" business is just over doing it.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Hyperturtle on Friday February 09 2018, @03:59PM
well... at first it was the only free, decent, encyclopedia on the internet, which sort of made it a Bastion of knowledge. And yeah that was a bit of truthful hyperbole; I guess I can't pull that off too well. Most other sites were behind a paywall or needed you to insert a local disk to open up a page that redirected you to their paywalled content. (Remember the "multimedia PC" of the mid 90s?)
Anyway once upon a time, people could order a copy of wikipedia on DVD. I looked recently at the wikipedia store; I was curious to know if they even had something like that anymore. They seem to have mostly XXL sized apparel now. Seeing that, it is hard to even correlate them as or with a bastion of anything.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @04:52PM
That's why I only read textbooks from Texas to get information. For instance, did you know that white male Republicans did everything worthwhile and liberals hate America so much because socialism is an excuse for normalizing sodomy so they can't take your Freedoms? Uh huh.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:23AM
OT thought experiment: on Duckduckgo, search for styxhexenhammer666 and note what comes up as the display result. Now click the link in the display result.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:58AM (13 children)
They tried all this "austerity" crap where I worked, a state University, in a hot and humid state. Yeah, just shut off the A/C (note, different from shutting off ACs) for the weekends, money saved on energy! Until the black mold and Legionaire's disease built up in the ductwork, and we had to shut down the whole system, the entire university, and pay for a complete replacement of the entire physical plant. Ever heard of "Pennywise, but Pound Foolish"? Speaking of Pennywise. . . .
(Score: 5, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:17AM (10 children)
republicans will rob you blind and tell you that its for your own good.
when will people stop listening to CHURCHES who force people (basically, via mental games) to vote for the R's.
this country seems to be hell bent on having people vote against their own best interest. because, jesus, or something....
how fucking stupid this country really is. perhaps we really don't deserve to be a first world country. everything I've seen over the past decades kind of shows that.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 2) by fishybell on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:29AM (1 child)
Dead babies...Dead Babies!...DEAD BABIES!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @04:54PM
Buttsecks!...buttsecks!... BUTTSECKS!!!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:51AM (1 child)
No worries, mate, continue like this and you won't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @02:11PM
We haven't been a first-world country since we adopted the never forgive, never-forget mindset for our citizen's legal infractions. You can't claim you're a first-world country when you have a permanently and intentionally disadvantaged underclass of supposedly "free" citizens.
"Shithole" is an excellent description of our social structure. Thanks, Donald.
We're a turd-world country.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:04PM
It's the rot of a hedonistic empire... those in power have everything that the previous generation could imagine wanting, and more... just reaching higher because they can.
All of this has happened before, and will happen again.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:14PM (1 child)
I vote republican (well, never democrat) and don't listen to any church. I guess I can't possibly exist because I don't fit your stereotype. Oh well. I wish I existed. Anyway...
This "people vote against their own best interest" thing is fascinating to me. You are so sure that you understand what is best for other people that you can't comprehend why they would legitimately make different choices than you do. You have to justify it in your mind with strange logic. Your enemy simply must be fooled into voting wrongly, or else they are evil. It couldn't possibly be that you yourself are fooled or evil.
If it is in my best interest to vote myself more handouts, and we all do this, what is the end result? The economy collapses. Along the way we are promised goodies (free healthcare, high minimum wage, roofs over our heads, free college, and even literally a free lunch) but the end result is disaster. The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
It is downright selfish to vote yourself more of other people's stuff. It might seem weird to you that a person would object to receiving free stuff, but to many of us it feels wrong.
Self-esteem and self-respect are important to many people. You don't get that by being on the dole. People take pride in supporting themselves, and they take offense at those who leach off of others.
Oh, and then there are all the issues not directly related to taxes and welfare. Yes, you can be an atheist who thinks that killing unborn children is wrong. Yes, you can be an atheist who thinks that LGBT are as crazy as people who hear fire hydrants talking to them. Yes, you can be an atheist who thinks that considering an illegal alien to be an undocumented member of the community is like considering a rapist to be an undocumented spouse. Yes, you can be an atheist who hates Muslims about a trillion times more than Christians. Yes, you can be an atheist who likes the gun laws of Florida (stand your ground, even away from home) and Texas (deadly force to defend property).
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:23PM
Yes, I also opposed the Republican tax bill. Then need to give back all that they took from other people.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:06PM
--Peter Medawar
I'm not surprised at any of this. But then again, I'm not very sanguine about such things. ;)
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @12:32AM
You aren't a first world country by most civilized standards.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:53PM
If America stops being a first world foil, all you've got left is Russia, China, and the EU+Australia as the 'First World', and two out of three of those are definitely fascist and the third is proto-fascist. All three having 'imaginary property' propped up economies (as does the US) whether via actual IP, or via virtualized currency (fiat taken to a new extreme) where the country's worth/debt ceiling is set by how much they can claim on paper they are worth before someone can blow the whistle on how many resources they actually have left.
Unless the intelligent human resources can be pooled to collapse not only the US, but the China, Russia and finally the EU, nothing will get better in the world. You might even be able to collapse them in a different order, but the danger stems from collapsing the wrong economy and giving the alternatives time to muster their militaries before they run out of domestic finance and the 'peasants' can revolt. If they roll over adjoining nations, the newfound wealth would allow them to continue dominating the rest of the world.
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @02:39PM
RIghtards love it up the ass
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @03:22PM
Black mold and Legionaire's shut you down? What a bunch of pansies. The good old days in Europe required bubonic plague or worse to shut things down.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Whoever on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:03PM
Why do you keep supporting the Republicans, then? It's the Republicans that want to spend ever more on the military.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:06PM (6 children)
Western civilization needs to really reaaaaally get over with the roman civilization. It was neither greatest nor its fall avoidable. No matter how much everyone wants to believe it. And then people need to understand that if anybody had any idea about how and why Roman empire fell, they might have saved it. Since it wasn't saved, nobody who had an iota of knowledge about saving it survived. Now we are just looking at the what Rome did before its fall and reading it as tea leaves. There is no information to be gathered from it. If there ever was, it wouldn't have taken industrial revolution to kick a bunch of tribals into becoming the peaceful nazis they want to remain.
(Score: 2) by https on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:28PM (2 children)
...or maybe those who had the ability to save it had a personal incentive to not.
So hush, child, and go back to school on Monday. If it hasn't been closed due to billionaire charter school advocates ripping away government funding.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:25PM (1 child)
I'm sure you can't wrap your head around it, but lots of us Trump supporters really like the new Secretary of Education. In my opinion, she is my second favorite cabinet member after Mattis. She is bringing back rule of law.
College students were getting kicked out based on flimsy accusations of sexual misconduct. Under the Obama-era policy, the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" was completely tossed aside. DeVos fixed that.
Under pressure from Obama-era policy, discipline in public schools was racist. Instead of applying equal standards to all students, schools tracked discipline by race. On a per-student basis, non-white students could only get punished as often as white students. The non-white students could get away with all sorts of things and they knew it. It is now allowable, though sadly not required, to apply uniform standards.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:03PM
You're all crazier than we thought!
Holy hell we're fucked, Mars is our next best hope for ditching these wackos.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Sulla on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:01PM (2 children)
For you to say that means you know nothing of history. When you study the history of the fall, both of the republic to tyranny and then the empire to apathy you can see clear similarities to the death of the american republic and empire. Immigration is good and keeps the republic healthy as long as the immigrants integrate as romans/americans/british in nature. Roman histories at the time talked about and knew what was killing their empire, foreigners coming from abroad who had no desire to integrate combined with romans at home who had no desire to procreate. Eventually the culture that built it did not have enough support to prop up the system and it failed.
Rome is far from a perfect example, but the cycles of empirs repeat themselves. Empires that fell from within all did for the same reason and we are following the same path. Overspending, devaluation of the currency, death of the culture that promoted its growth in the first place, apathy of the people that lived there.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @06:22AM (1 child)
Fecking OstroGoths! Build a wall! Remember Teutonburg! Keep the damn Germans out!
Sybilline Prophecy, No. 1236
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @04:55PM
*Teutoburg
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:11AM (15 children)
Oh, Sulla! Surely you realize the way to redress slights like this is assassination on the floor of the Senate, because that is what you led Rome to. Flamebait modding is below your historical stature, and against the standards of SoylentNews.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Sulla on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:38AM (6 children)
My current downmod percentage is 6.76% and the last time I down moderated anyone was back in October, as you know very well. I also try to use half of them daily on upmodding ACs who make good points regardless of if I agree with them or not because I think it healthy for the community. If I were to waste my upmod streak on something as pointless as a person I disagree with I would use a disagree mod, but then I would miss my december 31 goal of 1.5% downmod ratio.
If you wish to continue this discussion it is best done where all off topic conversations should be done, a journal. Might I suggest the entry I just posted about not missusing offtopic, troll, and flamebait.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 3, Interesting) by aristarchus on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:18AM (5 children)
Sorry, bro, gonna have to downmod you on this post. Just too negative, and not at all informative! You had a journal about mod abuse? How original. Did you cc TMB? He seems to think that downmodding is somehow intrinsically bad. But I, and others, know it is inherently good. And no, I do not know when the last time you downmodded anyone was. Do you think that I am admin? I worry more about my submission success rate, which now dangles periously at about 18%. I would like to think that it is because my submissions suck, but I do check out the editorial IRC channel, and sadly, that is not the reason. And you, my dear Sulla, are part of the problem. Do not encourage those who would do harm to the Republic, for their own personal gain, however petty. That way lies the Ruin of the Senātus Populusque Rōmānus.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:44AM (2 children)
Rest assured, it most certainly is. Unfortunately they suck in the same ways you do; you're unable to smell your own stink, as it were.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 20 2018, @03:32PM
#sux2baristarchus
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:43PM
You are such a hypocrite, but I can agree that aristarchus really likes to flamebait.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Gaaark on Saturday January 20 2018, @02:28PM
You know, if you actually CONTRIBUTED something to the site, people might be more tolerant of your being just an asshole.
Instead, your contributions are just whining and personal vendettas.
Man up.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @02:51PM
https://soylentnews.org/submit.pl?op=viewsub&subid=24385¬e=&title=Right-wing+extremists+killed+more+than+twice+as+many+people+as+Islamic+extremists. [soylentnews.org]
Garbage post.
https://soylentnews.org/submit.pl?op=viewsub&subid=24386¬e=&title=The+Orbán+government’s+international+conference+on+the+future+of+Europe%2C+with+Milo+Yiannopoulos [soylentnews.org]
Ah, I see a trend.
https://soylentnews.org/submit.pl?op=viewsub&subid=24402¬e=&title=Sebastian+Gorka+was+White+House+aide+while+fugitive+from+Hungarian+justice%2C+NRA+passed+Russian+funds [soylentnews.org]
A measure of intelligence here, you just can't get your message through due to incompetent writing. AND, still a trend in messages.
Learn to submit something worth reading, and submit it with intelligence and without snark and your submissions might get accepted. Submit garbage, as I have done at times, and it gets rejected: you just aren't smart enough to realize this.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:42AM (7 children)
I don't think they let you take bigass knives into the Senate nowadays. Quite unfortunate, really.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Saturday January 20 2018, @12:14PM (3 children)
Don't need a knife. A big shard of glass will do. Many other objects can provide a sharp edge in a pinch.
If not, there's always the classic, the blunt object.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @12:55PM (1 child)
I nominate Phoenix666 for the next big watchlist.
(Score: 1) by redneckmother on Saturday January 20 2018, @02:18PM
Too late!
Mas cerveza por favor.
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:15PM
Oh I see none of you are connoisseur of B-grade cinema. All you need is a wine bottle and you break it on a stool or table and voila, you have sharp object in the shape of a half broken bottle!
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:06PM (2 children)
Last time I was in D.C. some schmuck brought a gun into Congress, just about 24 hours exactly after we were there - they made kind of a mess when they shot him up, missed several times and hit the walls.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:19PM
Free entertainment with your sightseeing then? Nice.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Sunday January 21 2018, @06:37AM
That was just Felon Congressman Grimes, who was busy breaking some sallow youth of a reporter in two. Nothing to see here, carry on, citizen. And I do mean, "concealed carry" on!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:14AM (6 children)
In the end, you will save zero per tax payer. Why? Because after the shutdown is over and done (for however long it lasts), the congress critters always end up voting for retroactive pay for the federal employees who were impacted by the shutdown.
So in the end, you pay them for a number of days of "paid vacation" - the only difference to a real vacation is they can't plan a trip around the time off because no one knows exactly how long it will last.
So your cost is identical, it is the same amount you'd have paid had they been working during the shutdown timeframe.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Sulla on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:28AM (5 children)
I have worked in accounting at two different states and seen the effect of furlough days. The federal government has done furlough days in the past but it is pretty common at the state/county/muni level. Even if they pay in retro as if vacation days that is a period of time lights are off, the heaters are on 50/60 instead of 70/75, computers are not on, a day we don't have to pay for cleaning supplies. Water and electric lower.
The costs end up lower when states have to do it, the only reason for the fed to end up more expensive is spite or lack of knowing how to run a budget.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:00AM (4 children)
Why weren't you shut down, if in fact you were a state employee? I sense that the bullshit is strong in this one.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Sulla on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:47AM (3 children)
When I was working for Alaska I was working a couple of years after a succesful furlough and I moved out of state before another came into effect. Alaska has commonly used them when oil price changes caused budget overruns. The better way to fix budget gaps is examining where to cut costs and reduce overhead but sometimes that doesn't work and layoffs and furlough days are required. A 15 hour furlough in AK recently fixed a 9 million dollar budget gap as referenced in a prior post.
When I worked for Oregon I began work the year after a furlough that brought helped mend a budget issue.
Alaska in particular was interesting because the budget was based on a weighted average of prior year oil tax take. Several boom years caused a budget that was too large when oil prices fell through a couple years ago.
Although a big hit I would rather miss out on 3k for a year than have a state operating in the red. It is preferred that budget managers/planners do their job to avoid the issue in the first place but unforseen events do happen.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:10PM
Can you break down that $9M: how much was saved energy costs (that ultimately used fewer resources), vs. how much was reduced services costs that took money out of the pockets of the service providers and how much was direct salary reductions for the workers which took money directly from their pockets and then saved the work for them to do after the shutdown was over?
It's not so much saving money as it is spreading the pain onto the workers. Fixes one big balance sheet by siphoning off from thousands of smaller ones.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:29AM (1 child)
Or in the case of the previous administration, the shutdown was engineered to be expensive, cuz that'll show 'em.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @06:52AM
This one, of course, is different, since the Republican party controls both Houses and the Presidency. So it wil the be the most Fabulous Government Shutdown ever! It will be a fanastic shutdown! A record-breaking shutdown, with the best ratings! A Make Trump Great Again Shutdown. Until the indictments, anyway.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:12AM (4 children)
Everybody get outside and Celebrate! Start your Looting!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:56AM (3 children)
The cops don't get shutdown so enjoy prison.
(Score: 3, Informative) by shortscreen on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:18AM
mod parent -1 party pooper
(Score: 3, Funny) by AnonTechie on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:09AM (1 child)
Hasn't anybody started blaming Russia for this shutdown ?
Albert Einstein - "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @04:59PM
No but it's a nice distraction isn't it? Enjoy.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Tangaroa on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:14AM (3 children)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:23AM (1 child)
It only takes 50 votes to eliminate the senate rule that requires 60 votes.
Mitch McConnell could do it in a few minutes if he wanted to. He did it for Gorsuch. If he doesn't get rid of that silly rule, it is because he finds it convenient to hide his true intentions behind the extra 10 votes. He is serving the uniparty (built on blackmail and "donors"), not the people who elected him.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday January 20 2018, @12:17PM
That's right. It's the classic, "Golly I could fix this problem if we had 5 more [party] Senators. Send us more money right away so we can get that done." All the while they close the doors and do what the uniparty wants with no fuss, no muss.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:41AM
you did notice there was more than one R senator who voted against it? So It's not even a matter of the Rs wanting to wish it into being.
I do remember more than a few Presidential wants that got acuppered by Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, while they were wagingvtheir own political fights. Like Harry Reid making the so-called "nuclear option" happen in the Senate.
So we only get politics for the sake of politics (and dogma).
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:17AM (1 child)
That 60-vote requirement is a self-imposed senate rule. It is not a constitutional requirement. The rule isn't even half a century old.
Mitch McConnell is thus essentially a democrat. Some call it the uniparty. Mitch McConnell knows what people want, but he has the 60-vote thing as an excuse to do what his "donors" (bribe payers) want.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:10AM
The Constitution specifies that the Senate shall make its own rules. What are you, some kind of illiterate Tea-bagging Republican Runaway1848?
(Score: 2) by looorg on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:19AM (21 children)
This seem to be some kind of recurring event, every fifth or so year for the last couple of decades. No long-term solution in sight. A few weeks of unpaid "vacation". So I guess they'll be all pissy with each other for some time and then eventually they'll realize that they both look and appear like spoiled kids and reach some kind of shitty temporary deal that will run out in about 2023 or so.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:23AM (18 children)
look, the R's are robbing us all blind.
'no new taxes' was the theme from reagan and nothing has really changed since that motherfucker made the R's the party of 'I got mine, fuck you!'.
and so, you campain on 'no new taxes' or 'lower taxes', but it costs money to RUN the govt and to pay for services.
they just don't care. they seriously don't care. scorched earth policy, pretty much. I got mine, fuck you.
will the religious right EVER get a clue and realize they are being played?
(no, of course not. they are too brainwashed. and anything they hate, they put the 'liberal' label on, just like children who don't know what a word means, but like to feel important using it)
this country is really sucking badly right now. I hope we can get beyond this, but I doubt we will. the 'right' is too entrenched in their hatred and hatred is the most powerful of emotions. their controllers know this all too well.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:36AM (2 children)
Sounds like you're the one with the hatred issues...
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:24AM (1 child)
Fuck you, and the God you rode in on! Oh, and all the underage girls and boys you also molested! It is not so much that any one hates evangelical Republicans, it is just that they are such scum, such hypocrites, such traitors to the very God they profess to serve, such selfish and demon possessed evil fucks that they think they are holy? So I say again, Fuck any God that would claim such filth as his followers. And don't get me started on Mormons. No hate here, just facts.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:13AM
I preyed on God to Raise this post with moderations of great joy and salutations. But the forces of Satan, "could it be, . . . Satan?" have taken over too many solylentils, the ones who think that what they believe in is God. They will burn in flamebait mods, come the end of days! Verily, their end will be raw, and smoking!
(Score: 5, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Saturday January 20 2018, @12:33PM (14 children)
" the 'right' is too entrenched in their hatred and hatred is the most powerful of emotions."
I really must say that the "left" is rather consumed by hatred at the moment. I'm a progressive, and I can't stomach any of the sources I used to visit (Huffington Post, DailyKos, etc) because there's nothing but hysteria there on a daily basis.
I remember a conversation between Jon Stewart and Rachel Maddow on her show early during the Obama administration when he was taking her to task for being just as bad as Fox News was, and how what she and they were doing was destroying the country. At the time I thought he was off-base, but now I get it and realize he's right. He's more right now than he was then, because everything has grown so much worse.
So I'd take your question, "will the religious right EVER get a clue and realize they are being played?" and amend it to, "will the American citizens EVER get a clue and realize they are being played?" because the whole left-right game has been designed and pushed by the uniparty to divide us.
Inside the Beltway they all know they're on the same team, Them vs Us. We can see that when we watch the Press Club Dinners from years past, when all the people who play enemies on TV let their hair down and have a few yucks with their pals. We can see it in how Chris Ruddy, the CEO of Newsmax and the guy who funded the Vince Foster conspiracy during the Clinton administration, is good pals with Bill Clinton and has been a big contributor to the Clinton Foundation.
If we stop, calm down, and really listen to what the people on the other side are really talking about, instead of letting ourselves be triggered by the focus-group tested memes the uniparty has poisoned the national discourse with, we'll begin to understand that they are talking about the same things. The Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, used a different tone and different terms but the main of their message is the same.
It's also helpful to stop portraying the "other" side as a monolith. The citizens who gravitate to the R rhetoric aren't any one thing, and neither are those who gravitate to the D rhetoric. Within each discursive sphere there are really very few, usually party operatives and a select subset, who actually endorse and espouse the party line and who back the party leadership. Real human beings are fractious, and anyone who's ever been involved in any group activity, be it a church social or political activism, knows it's always like herding cats.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @02:33PM (9 children)
When will people stop giving the religious (right or left) any credibility at all? They're reality-challenged from first principles, having failed the most basic test of being able to reason their way out of the most basic paper bag around: superstition.
Religion is a social disease. Educate your children better. It's the only way to nuke religion from orbit. You can't force it out once it takes root. You can only get in front of society's religious infection, and thereby prevent it from getting into your kids, at least if your kids aren't dumb-as-posts. Hopefully gene editing will soon reduce the large portion of the population that is congenitally stupid. You'd think if you could ensure your kids would be smart, you'd make sure they were smart. Even so, until then, you could still teach about half the population to observe and reason instead of bow to fantasy-as-fact if you get in there early enough with a decent reality-based upbringing.
The phrase "religious right" is synonymous with "reality-rejecting right." Likewise left. Or center. Etc. These are not people you should want winning elections, running companies, variously regulating behavior, etc. The odds hugely favor them screwing things up - history demonstrates this over and over again.
They're not the only problem we have, but they sure are a significant one.
(Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Saturday January 20 2018, @04:25PM (7 children)
Because they are productive, relatively honest members of society. Isn't disfranchising the people who make society work a big part of the problem in the first place?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @04:48PM (6 children)
They are the polar opposite of honest. They're lying to themselves, and then spreading that everywhere they can.
These people don't "make society work", they screw society up and impede its efficient working.
Moreover, I wasn't suggesting anyone disenfranchise them other than get them out of government (or make them behave rationally when there.) I specifically said they could not be fixed. I was suggesting we prevent more of them from damaging our social and legal system by effectively educating our offspring and thereby reducing their numbers. I also think that re-electing the current crop of superstitionists to positions of governmental responsibility is self-destructive specifically because they can't think straight. That is the polar opposite of "productive" in political / regulatory terms.
The influence of such people has been the fundamental cause of many of our toxic laws and regulations. From clerks who won't issue marriage licenses, to legislation that give tax benefits to superstitious enterprises, to regulation that provides broadcast primacy to superstitious broadcasting, the damage is broadly evident and deeply harmful.
When it comes to disenfranchisement, if all they are capable of doing is occupy a political or regulatory position poorly, then they aren't competent to hold one anyway. Let them (learn to, if necessary) bake bread, deal with plumbing, run or work on assembly lines, etc. Just stop encouraging them to impose their superstitions on everyone else via legislation and regulation. Take that legendary wall of separation between church and state seriously. It'd do society a world of good. Or at least a country of good.
While all that plays out, try to fix the kids.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:19PM (5 children)
I did say "relatively honest".
Except that's not true. Human societies, collectively were a lot more religious than they are now, and yet somehow we got to the present state of affairs, which let us note, has a lot of working societies. If religions really were the obstacles you claim they are, then we wouldn't have come from the primitive societies of the past to the present.
We can come up with examples where religions have hindered or helped society. For example, northern India of the 4th and 5th century experienced a decline of fortune due in part to a growing divergence between Buddhist practitioners and their societies. Christians are blamed for destroying ancient writings including burning of at least part of the Library of Alexandria. The Roman Catholic Church had for around a thousand years suppressed dissent and heretical ideas throughout the region of Europe subject to its authority.
OTOH, religion has also served to mitigate some of the worst excesses of humanity and was a key aspect of ancient law and morality. The era of religious schism in Europe served to usher in the Age of Enlightenment.
And on a more individual level, the people who you criticize are better people for being religious, precisely for the reasons you say should hinder their credibility. If someone is going to believe in a harmless sky god, isn't that better than the host of really bad ideas that they could be believing in instead? It provides a rather harmless outlet for people who would otherwise be more open to harmful beliefs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:06PM
OK so since it's just something that's nice for people to pass the time, let's agree to remove their tax sheltered status.
I have things that are nice and probably keep me out of harm. Where's my tax shelter?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:49PM (3 children)
Wow, guess you haven't met too many religious people or more likely you're completely oblivious to their flaws. Likely a fish / fishbowl syndrome. There are many people who are good people and not religious, and they are able to find common ground with their community and be successful. I get your points and they aren't all wrong, but "believe in a harmless sky god"? Harmless is hardly the word I would use, untold amounts of suffering have come directly from the belief that the bible is literally the word of god.
But hell, I'm explaining reality to khallow, a fruitless exercise. You RWNJs just come here to circle jerk and upmod lame "libruhls baaad" posts.
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:47AM (2 children)
And I guess you're ignorant.
And I bet a fair number of them are religious, you just didn't know.
And that is relevant how? Because one can find a harmful religious belief, then religion is harmful? That's the fallacy of equating parts with the whole, which has been a problem since some AC started spouting stereotypes about religion in the first place.
It's only fruitless for those who choose not to learn.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:34AM (1 child)
Khallow, you know that thing you do, the one we talked about? Yeah, you're doing it again. God will punish you for this act of hubris. And the lust in your heart. And the worship of Mammon, you did not think that would just slide by without being noticed? Get back on the right path, khallow. I recommend 5000 Hail Mary's, and 2450 Our Fathers, and a donation of $100 to the EFF. May Humanity have mercy on your soul.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 21 2018, @11:30AM
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:42PM
Remember how the smallpox vaccine works. You infect people with cowpox, which is a mild disease, and then they are immune to smallpox.
It's like that with Christianity and Islam.
I'll take Christianity, thank you very much. If we lose Christianity, then there is a void into which Islam will vigorously grow. We'd go back to living like it is the year 700, and you'd soon be dead if you complained. Appeasement does not make the problem go away.
So, while I find all the Christian prayer irritating, I am sort of thankful for it. This world has far worse cultural viruses.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 20 2018, @03:45PM (2 children)
Obviously, the Ozzies need to start breeding more dogs. My shepard herds cats quite well! German shepards, not so much. Maybe it's a language thing? If I could speak 'Strayan, I'd ask the dog . . .
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:37AM (1 child)
Runaway owns a crazy dog. Why am I not surprised? Keeping an Australian Shephard without a flock for him/her to work is animal abuse, you wanker!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 21 2018, @10:53AM
Obviously, you don't keep up with either my posts, or with your own rants. Sheep, goats, horses, chickens, cats, and dogs all coexist here on these fifteen acres.
I'll be honest - I don't use my crazy pup as a sheep dog. I have no real interest in it. The kids do it all. But, my silly pup gets out there and follows along, socializing with the other dogs, running after the herd animals. And, he applies his herding skills to the two cats that the wife keeps in the house. He also goes into the neighbor's pasture to practice herding the cattle, but he gets little real response from them. They just show their annoyance by tossing their horns most of the time. If his parents join in, then the cattle start moving. Then, the whole thing falls to pieces when the cattle are moving, and the dogs realize they don't actually have a plan to herd the cattle into the barn, or a loading chute, or even to feed or water.
Wonder if anyone has ever uploaded videos of shepard dogs herding cat . . . This litter of Corgis resemble our little rascal - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZF5S5ko8dc [youtube.com]
Speaking of wankers - how are you and the family?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @04:13PM
I made this comment back when Trump got elected.
The blame rests squarely on the 96 percent who chose to polarize as Republicans or Democrats rather than going 'We might lose this election, but sending a message to the parties is more important!' and voting for third party candidates instead.
All those candidates needed was ~5 percent of the vote for federal support next election cycle, or 10-20 percent to make the news stations have a hard time pushing them out during the next election cycle's debates. If either of those numbers had been reached, especially on multiple candidates, it would have weakened the duopolist control of America and sent political leaders scrambling. But instead people acted like rival football fans and polarized into two frothing rabid mindless masses and proved why herd mentality is always depicted as unintelligent bovines: Because people really do act that stupid in a large group.
And the problem is only getting worse, not better. I can only imagine how bad the next election's candidates will be.
(Score: 5, Informative) by dry on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:01AM (1 child)
Living in a Westminster Parliamentary system, it just seems so weird. Here, if the government can't pass a supply bill, the government falls. After that, depending, the other team can try or there is an election.
(Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:22PM
And that is better how? In the US case, it'll bounce around for at most a few weeks before the parties get over it and pass a budget. Life moves on.
(Score: 5, Funny) by SomeGuy on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:25AM (2 children)
"Your government has performed a stupid operation and will be shut down - If the problem persists, contact your local poling place."
"Click Start, Shut Down, then Shut Down Government".
"It is now safe to shut down your government".
Anyway, this is just a hair surprising. They always like to hem and haw trying to get some inappropriate item rammed in at the last second, but usually already have a plan so they don't wind up out on their own asses. But the incompetence level up there has been quite a bit higher than usual. (Did they post the shutdown notice to Twitter? Nothing any more is official until it is posted to Twitter(TM)! )
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:25AM (1 child)
"Retry, Ignore or Cancel"
All of which do the same thing: nothing.
(Score: 3, Informative) by maxwell demon on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:18AM
General failure citing ancient DOS error messages.
(A)bort, (R)etry, (I)gnore, (F)ail?
Actually the (F)ail option came only in later DOS versions, and after its introduction, the (I)gnore option was quickly removed from actually generated errors. However the option to display it in principle still existed (the handler routine still had the option in the interface), it just wasn't used any more.
"Cancel" was never available on those DOS error messages (I can'tremember seeing it anywhere else in DOS, either). Instead, "OK/Cancel" message boxes appeared in Windows (but there, IIRC error messages always only had an "OK" button).
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 4, Funny) by shortscreen on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:17AM (10 children)
It's not a shutdown. It's more like an allergic reaction where the bureaucracy starts attacking itself causing rashes and seizures.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:28AM (9 children)
Yes it is a shutdown. Due to the party who's only policy is to tear things apart... tearing themselves apart. See UK Conservative Party for further details.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:57AM (8 children)
Wait, the UK Conservative Party can cause an US government shutdown?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:26AM (7 children)
conservatives are like children. they have simple minds, they think things are black/white and they break shit for everyone else.
but JESUS. trickle-down jesus. or something.
if we can ever separate religion from politics, we might actually have a chance at fixing our broken system.
...I'm not holding my breath, though.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 3, Funny) by maxwell demon on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:01AM (1 child)
I'm still pretty sure that the UK Conservative Party cannot cause an US government shutdown.
But then, maybe the Declaration of Independence was just fake news. ;-)
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:27PM
USA: master of negotiation
UK: easiest negotiation ever
(Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Saturday January 20 2018, @12:37PM (4 children)
Here it is again that you're painting things as the result of the actions of religious whackos. That is not so. That was the main of George W. Bush's administration. It's not, here, now.
This particular situation has nothing to do with religion. It is about immigration and also about the visceral hatred that some have for Donald Trump. If the question was about whether to fund llama ranchers, and Trump liked llama ranchers, they would still shut down the government because they hate Trump that much.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @03:50PM
full of faggotry is moderation today
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:52PM (2 children)
You miss the point someone else made, the christian churches play directly into the hands of the Repugnicans often by directly correlating the R with a vote for God. Phoenix I know the chaos can be tough to handle, but you're drifting off into crazyville quite steadily.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:43AM
If Christ came back today, he would be a Liberal Jew! Well, a Jew, and certainly not anything close to Netandhowyou. So these white supremacist, pro-capitalist, anti-Black_Lives_Matter, misogynist supporters of a con man NewYorkCity real estate developer, liar, philanderer, and repeat taker-of-the Lord's-Name-in-vain are in NO SENSE OF THE WORD CHRISTIANs! This is clear to everyone but their selves. They are actually just Mormons, without the fanciful history.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Sunday January 21 2018, @12:11PM
Except Trump is not the darling of the Religious Right. They liked Cruz and not Trump. Now they prefer Pence to Trump. They would be quite happy for Trump to be impeached and have Pence take the helm so they could pass their priorities, which are abortion, homeschooling, prayer in school, and all those other things that have been their priorities for 40 years and which they've never gotten despite Republicans holding all the reins of power several times in that period because they're too darn useful in duping them into voting for Republicans.
That is why I assert that the religious right is not the driving force in Trump's support. It's not the hackneyed Republican caricatures we all know and love (?). They are inchoate rage, the inevitable evolution of the forces that produced the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street.
Washington DC delenda est.