from the when-popularity-at-home-lags,-start-a-war dept.
Iran says it's 'completely ready for war' after US official confirms it shot down American drone
In a major provocation, Iran shot down an unarmed and unmanned U.S. Navy MQ-4C Triton drone while it was flying in international airspace over the Strait of Hormuz Thursday, a U.S. official told ABC News.
The incident is sure to trigger serious discussions within the Trump administration about how to respond to a direct attack on a U.S. military asset that goes beyond recent attacks in the Middle East that the U.S. has blamed on Iran.
Gulf crisis: US confirms drone was shot down by Iranian missile
A US military surveillance drone has been shot down by Iranian forces while flying over the Strait of Hormuz. Iran's Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) said the drone had violated Iranian airspace. But US military said it had been over international waters. IRGC commander-in-chief Maj-Gen Hossein Salami said the downing of the drone sent a "clear message to America" that Iran's borders were its "red line".
It comes at a time of escalating tension between the US and Iran. On Monday, the US defence department said it was deploying 1,000 extra troops to the region in response to "hostile behaviour" by Iranian forces. The US has also accused Iran of attacking two oil tankers with mines last Thursday just outside the Strait of Hormuz, in the Gulf of Oman. Iran rejects the allegation.
Previously: Two Oil Tankers Attacked, US Blames Iran
Related Stories
Two Oil Tankers Attacked in the Middle East, Stoking Fears of Conflict
Two oil tankers on Thursday morning were reportedly attacked near the Strait of Hormuz, a crucial oil transport route that sits between the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman, echoing a similar attack last month and stoking fears about escalating tensions in the region.
It was not immediately clear who was responsible for Thursday's attacks, but the U.S. blamed Iran for last month's bombing of four tankers in the same general area, without offering a clear explanation as to why. Iran denied that allegation, but it is embroiled in several conflicts in the region. It has long feuded with U.S.-allied Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates—tensions only heightened by a clash over the civil war in Yemen—and Thursday's incident fueled fears that tensions in the region are approaching a breaking point.
Oil tanker attacks will inflame conflict between the US, its allies and Iran
Thursday's attacks on two oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman caused jitters in global markets and unease across a region that has been bracing for conflict throughout much of the year. As with the earlier attacks on 12 May, news of the latest strikes was again broken by media outlets aligned to Hezbollah in Lebanon and Iran, who broadcast images of the attacks within minutes of them taking place.
Pictures of both ships ablaze spoke volumes about what is at stake in one of the world's most strategic waterways, as a regional player withering under ever tightening sanctions stares down a global superpower determined to impose its will.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @02:44PM (5 children)
"In a major provocation, Iran shot down an unarmed and unmanned U.S. Navy MQ-4C Triton drone while it was flying in international airspace over the Strait of Hormuz"
Bastards! They shoot that international symbol of peace that brings happiness and comfort to everyone!
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:16PM (2 children)
When asked, the President said "I mean, it could be Iran, but it could also be China. It could also be lots of other people. It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, OK?"
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:55PM (1 child)
Actually he said, "It could have been someone who is lose and stupid."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:27PM
That should be "... loose and stupid."
(Score: 2) by driverless on Friday June 21 2019, @05:26AM (1 child)
It's actually not a bad idea of the Iranians, letting the US know that they can't fly their military aircraft into Iranian airsp... sorry, uh, "international airspace very close to Iran" with impunity.
In any case since the US in the past shot down an Iranian civilian airliner killing 290 people including 60 children, I think Iran is allowed to shoot down as many unmanned drones killing zero people including zero children as it likes.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Friday June 21 2019, @05:29AM
Damn, that's too non-obvious. I meant it can shoot down as many unmanned drones as it likes until its total for casualties matches what the US did. Currently it's zero dead, but there are plenty more unmanned drones the US will try to provoke them with.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @02:44PM (108 children)
Why? Because we have an Idiot for President who couldn't maintain the deal his predecessor worked out. That's about it, other than I trust the U.S. explanation about as far as I can throw it thanks to WMD. The real mistake makers are every person who voted for Donald J. Trump, a scared little bully.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @02:49PM (74 children)
You mean the useless nuclear deal that allowed them to cheat and also allowed them to get the bomb eventually. If Iran gets the bomb, they will nuke Israel, who will then nuke Russia, then start WWIII. I don't want Iran to have the bomb and neither should you.
I suggest you board this wonderful TRUMP train. Be careful, it has no brakes!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:16PM (10 children)
How is that? I'm not being snarky, I'm just unaware of the part of the treaty that allows "cheating."
Would you please elucidate?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:36PM (4 children)
You are allowed to be both. In my opinion USA flying a drone in the Hormuz strait was obviously domestic business when you look at the map.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:41PM (2 children)
Huh? what does that have to do with the Iran nuclear treaty?
Non-sequitur much?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:57PM (1 child)
That you can be be both snarky and ask a legitimate question? Or my sarcastic comment that a US drone in the hormuz strait is domestic american business?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @07:26PM
Exactly. That's why we need borders!
If Obama hadn't been so weak, Iran could never have done this on our territory like they just did.
USA! USA! USA!
#MAGA Motherfucker!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday June 20 2019, @09:26PM
Oh yes. The map of where the drone was flying, supplied by the US military, who always tell the truth and never attempt to manufacture new wars for no good reason.
*cough* Gulf of Tonkin *cough*
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:44PM (4 children)
Supposedly Israel discovered a warehouse just full of items which proved that Iran was still interested in developing weapons in spite of the treaty. (This despite the fact that the treaty makes no mention of Iran allowing to retain information already developed to date). So Netanyahu went all public about how Iran was lying about wanting deproliferation and "cheating" on the deal because of the warehouse and tried to command the IAEA to inspect the warehouse. IAEA has since done so but not released any final conclusions yet (some are due this month).
It's about like saying somebody cheated at Texas Hold 'Em because they discovered that dealing the turn card was allowed but that might just allow the other player to win the hand.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday June 20 2019, @09:29PM (3 children)
Wow. I did not think anyone actually believed that.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @09:49PM
Neither did I until I remembered that a person may be smart but People Are Stupid.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @08:38AM
The warehouse was full of crashed drone parts and limpet mines. Nettanyahoo swears it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @09:53AM
Well I'm sure many believed this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/technology/kaspersky-lab-israel-russia-hacking.html [nytimes.com]
That was like the Israelis saying: "We saw the Russians steal stuff from your house. Trust us, it was definitely the Russians, we were right there while they were doing it!"
LOLZ.
Basically if any evidence is from the Israeli or US Gov alone I'm going think false flag or lies.
It's more convincing if somehow the US and Russian/Chinese Gov agree on the same thing.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:19PM (36 children)
I thought it was Hillary that was going to start WWIII and that's why we should vote for the Donald.
Given that Trump has continued *every* Bush II/Obama foreign military adventure and doubled down on some of them, I wonder how it's any different, except for Trump honking off our *allies* as much or more than our adversaries, that is.
Funny that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:24PM (34 children)
No, you were supposed to vote for him because he would end obamacare. He at least ended the part where we are forced to pay scammers (insurance companies) money. I didn't vote for him btw.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:37PM (33 children)
Thanks to Obamacare, I pay less now (with no subsidies) for as good or better coverage than I did before Obamacare.
That said, I would very much like to see single-payer here in the US.
"but...but...but..muh taxes!" is a misnomer, as you already pay for it with payroll deductions for health insurance premiums and lower wages because your employer (and you, in all likelihood) is paying out the ass for your insurance already.
And since single-payer (which does *not* mean free for everyone) has built-in cost savings (not death panels, but removing the tens of *billions* in profit and overhead, etc., etc., etc.), we'll all pay less in the long run.
As for the idea that "I don't want to pay for a bunch of freeloaders!" goes, that's what Medicaid and emergency room visits for minor shit already does. Unless of course you think we should just let people die in the street if they can't put cash on the barrel head. Do you?
What's the real scam is the lack of price transparency and kickbacks/double-dealing/collusion and consolidation in the insurance and healthcare industries.
Oh, and I didn't vote for jackass either. It's times like these that makes me wish I owned a car. Then I put a bumper sticker on it that says, "Don't blame me. I voted for the other guy."
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:43PM (29 children)
If you pay any money at all to insurance companies you are being scammed.
Try it, don't wait for a corporate or government agent to tell you the reality. Go a few places where they don't already know you have insurance and tell them you don't have it. Then ask the price. It is at least half off and often up to 90%+ off.
https://selfpaypatient.com/ [selfpaypatient.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:46PM (8 children)
Lol. You need a more reality-based notion of healthcare reimbursement.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:59PM (2 children)
My reality is my own experience.
1) I don't pay thousands of dollars to insurance companies every year, so have far larger savings/investments than I would otherwise
2) I don't waste more countless hours and stress arguing with them as they try to not pay what they promised
3) I go to whatever healthcare provided I choose
4) I pay prices that are far below the prices used to determine deductibles and co-pays.
All you have to do is check for yourself and do a little math, but you won't because you are a drone who does nothing until an authority figure tells you its ok.
Now, the only thing I would like from insurance is some really catastrophic insurance with deductible of like $100k for a couple hundred dollars a year. But that product doesn't seem to exist.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:15PM (1 child)
Yep. Keep believing that.
(All of this is about the US only). A provider who accepts insurance *must* take more from a self-pay than what the insurance companies pay them. Not what they -charge- but what they are -paid- by the insurance companies, because if their rates for self-pay drop below the contracted rates and the insurance company finds out the insurance company will demand repayment for the difference between the self-pay and contract rate. And they'll win it, because the point of insurance is that a provider accepts less than what they would accept from an uninsured patient in exchange for increased volume. The contracts are written that way. Can the provider get away with behavior that would break their contract if the insurer knew about it? Maybe. But not for many and not for long. The insurance system depends on that, the provider community as a whole can no longer survive without insurance, and the exceptions are few and far between (and some of them government subsidized).
The vast majority of providers do indeed have self-pay rates below their stated charge rates, but it is not cheaper than commercial insurance. You are right that if you know that and ask you'll pay less if you are self-pay than just taking the stated charge rate and paying it.
You certainly don't go to whatever provider you choose, because you'd be denied care at most providers if you're not willing to pay the provider's self-pay rates. Or, rather, if you're not willing to pay what the physician demands of you then you won't be accepted as a patient.
I work in the industry, so my math and knowledge are a little better than yours. I am not a drone, but I do understand how healthcare reimbursement in the United States works. I have seen plenty of people who believe just like you end up filing bankruptcy and losing most of their income because they thought they were special.
And we'll just wait to see what happens when you have that catastrophic event and you must have a surgery done or you die, or you need multiple complicated imaging studies done. Yes, there will still be discounts. But you'll still go broke. Catastrophic plans exist [healthcare.gov], and they exist outside of the Obamacare mandate. They aren't cheap as cheap as you want, though, because of a very simple part of economics: The insurance company cannot pay out more than they take in, or put another way their liabilities can never exceed their risks.
Anyway, like I said, enjoy your fantasy that you pay less than an insured does. Even if you do so today that doesn't guarantee what you'll pay tomorrow. Your physicians will keep laughing all the way to the bank, either way.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:48PM
You assume I would go to them for the same type of stuff you would...
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:23PM (4 children)
Last year I needed an MRI. The lab charges $2,800 for the MRI, and I only have 50% coverage for this service through my insurance. But, since I had not yet met my $5,000 annual deductible I would be paying the entire $2,800.
I asked if there was a self pay option and was told that for those who did not have insurance the charge for the exact same MRI at the same facility was $700, but if paying in advance there was a 40% discount. I took back my paperwork and filled out a new form without my insurance information. I paid $420 in advance and had the MRI that morning.
I've had a similar experience with my ENT. They charge self pay clients less than those with insurance, and have a 45% discount for those paying cash at the time of service. Even with insurance it is cheaper for me to pay cash at almost every medical services provider that I visit.
I only have insurance because of the legal mandate. But at $650 p/m premium I am better off taking my chances without it and saving the $12,800 I spend on premiums and deductibles and using it for a legal defense fund if I ever get caught.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:50PM
Trump got rid of this. You don't need to pay any penalty any more for not giving thousands of dollars to scammers every year. This is the only undeniably positive thing Trump has done.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday June 20 2019, @09:34PM
Good lord, that is awful.
What a stupid way to run a country.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @10:15PM (1 child)
Maybe. What you haven't said is what the contractual discount from your insurer for the MRI would be. NO insurance, anywhere, pays $2,800 for any class of MRI even though an imaging center might well send a charge for that (or $5,000 come to that....). If the imaging facility was contracted to your insurance it is very likely that the insurance would have replied back to the facility that their $2,800 MRI charge would be reduced down to $400 and that's what you would have owed. (Up until your deductible is filled, and then you owe about $80 instead). That's about the common reimbursement for MRI's now, in the $350-$1,200 range depending on location and contrast administration.
One thing to understand: All providers have a singular base charge rate (a "chargemaster.") This amount is the amount they send to any insurance and any individual who doesn't ask for a discount. It has very little to do with how much the provider will actually be paid by any entity unless an uninsured person is stupid enough to just pay the bill. So no, they "charge" everybody the SAME amount for a given CPT code. Providers do not have multiple "charge amounts." What they DO have is multiple discount arrangements and will accept as a discount for that charge changes from insurer to insurer and to self-pay patients who ask for it.
But let's say what you say is true - I'm sure you are reporting the parts of the story you know correctly. Let's say that insurance discount would be $1,000 and the self-pay walk in pays only $420. All it will take is one person who is pissed off who finds out that someone else got that rate and one phone call to their insurer. Then the insurance company will be on the phone to the imaging center asking exactly how much their self-pay patients pay and requiring that provider to refund all money paid to them in excess of that amount plus the insurer will be paying only that much to them from then on. And the imaging center would do what all smart providers do: Set the self-pay discount to be 10% (or even $1) over what the highest insurance contract they have will pay.
And no, you're not in trouble and can't be in trouble for this. Unless you're a provider you won't "get caught" because you've done nothing wrong. Can there be stupid providers who don't understand how insurance works and offer sub-insurance rates to uninsured individuals? Yep! They can also get caught and be forced to repay the differential amount between what the insurance paid and what they charged a self-pay patient, or be booted out of the insurance network and then the provider won't make enough to survive. (Because the insurer absolutely relies on paying a provider less than what a self-pay patient would because that's the only way they survive).
Does it make sense for you to just save your money for a serious injury instead of pay for insurance? For many people, yes. However, consider that a back surgery can run over $50,000 just for the surgical procedure. An open heart surgery can run north of $100,000. Chemotherapy, don't even ask. Remain perfectly healthy and you might make it to that point. But there are enough folks that don't make it that this makes no sense at all. Wait long enough and your medical expenses *will* exceed your capabilities to pay them over the long run. And society has to not just look at the healthy person who can go 20 years without a sniffle, they have to look at the thousands of people needing surgeries and chemo and imaging and you name it.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @12:02AM
Just the lengths of your posts about insurance make me glad I don't have it...
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:59PM (19 children)
Which is why we need single-payer. Thanks for reinforcing my point.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:07PM (18 children)
I dunno if single payer would be better... but obamacare and the slightly better health insurance situation that existed before obamacare are both far worse than no health insurance at all.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:14PM (12 children)
Granted it's anecdotal, but I pay ~$250/month *less* for health insurance with a lower deductible than before the ACA went into effect.
What's more, I did the math and I come out *ahead* every year in terms of health care expenditures with the insurance I buy.
Then again, I'm over 50 and have colon cancer in my family, so I need regular colonoscopies. I've also needed spine surgery, physical therapy and other medical services.
If you're under 40 and pretty healthy (I almost never went to the doctor before I was 45), self-pay might be a good idea. However, if you're in a car accident and need multiple surgeries, long-term care, lots of rehab and ongoing medical services and drugs, being self-pay will likely put you into bankruptcy pretty quick.
Single-payer would do away with all those issues. I hope you don't get severely injured in an accident, friend.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:43PM (9 children)
This isn't the right comparison at all. You need to compare to self-pay. Think about saving hundreds and then thousands of dollars per year every year for 45 years and putting it in the stock market instead. How much would you have to pay medical expenses? You did the wrong math.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:47PM (1 child)
Same AC. In 1975 the S&P 500 was at about 100. Today it is at ~3,000. A 300x increase.
I'm sure insurance premiums have been rising too at the same time so lets just say you paid $100 in 1975 for health insurance when you didn't need it. Just that first year you paid the insurance company would have instead given you $30k for medical expenses when you needed it today.
People refuse to accept the scale of this scam.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:49PM
Sorry, 30x increase -> $3k.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:20PM (6 children)
Think about being in the second year of your wonderful savings plan and then you're diagnosed with brain cancer. Such things happen. Now who did the wrong math?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:43PM (5 children)
Whoever didn't do the proper risk-benefit did the wrong math. I assure you that is not the insurance company.
I fell and got a concussion a few years ago with obviously an associated skull fracture because I got a black eye a few days later. Guess what, I happened to have studied brain injury at a graduate level, I did a little more research, and verified that nothing had changed. There was nothing they could do beyond let me heal.
If I went to the doctor I'm sure they would have charged $100k for all the useless scans and crap they would do.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:46PM
And also, in case you are worrying this brain injury has caused some sort of life problems for me... it is the opposite. I am much better off now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @10:22PM (3 children)
The plural of anecdote is not data. I didn't ask what if you got an uncomplicated concussion that didn't require treatment. One MRI should have revealed that. Better question: How about instead of a concussion you got a full on subdural bleed from your fall that didn't stop. Again I ask: Where's your magnificent calculations in such a situation? How much do you think you would have owed a neurosurgeon to evacuate the bleed and repair the artery, and again what if that happened in year two of your savings plan?
Now let's go back to my first question: What happens if you get brain cancer and you only have one year of your premiums saved up as your health reserve? Hope you like dying!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @12:05AM (2 children)
Well, then shit happens. Thats life. Btw, I don't really have much faith in the healthcare system to begin with, so don't trust them to do much more than make me poor for the most part anyway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @02:43PM (1 child)
Yes, shit happens. But no, you won't necessarily just be sent away or denied care. Instead your physician will eat some of the cost of your care. The hospital will write off part of your expenses. The public will pay for some of the cost of your care. All of us who pay for our insurance will eat the cost of your care in the way of increased premiums and taxes. Life would be easier if we didn't give a damn about you and just say, "well, tough shit now go away and die." But since we're not going to do that because we're people and not animal, and since when that day comes you will not just keep to yourself but instead beg for any help available to keep you breathing, then we're perfectly within our rights to not give a shit if you don't want insurance and penalize you for not taking the steps that the rest of us do so that we won't be a burden on you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @07:23PM
You ignore the part I don't want most of this "care" they have to offer. And second, I've looked at the data. The expenses you complain about are rounding errors. All the money is spent on old people with chronic conditions on like a dozen medications they probably would be better off without.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @08:47PM (1 child)
$250 a month on health care? That's insane!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @10:08PM
No. that's $250/month *less* than I was paying.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @06:56PM (4 children)
Slightly better before, huh? Dude, do you just not care about the tens of millions of people who had no health insurance before the ACA and couldn't afford healthcare at all? Does that simply not matter, or is it all good because some people had health insurance?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @07:25PM
The tens of millions of people not being scammed, who then got scammed? I can tell you are very concerned about that "problem".
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by realDonaldTrump on Friday June 21 2019, @05:37AM (2 children)
Under Trumpcare, EVERY AMERICAN will have access to Medical Care!!!!
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Friday June 21 2019, @05:50AM (1 child)
When, exactly?
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by realDonaldTrump on Friday June 21 2019, @06:12AM
When 117th. Congress meets. That one starts in January, 2021. HUGE Republican majorities in the House & Senate. Trust me, they're going to pass a beautiful new HealthCare bill. Get ready!!!!
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:54PM (2 children)
"Don't blame me. I voted for the other guy."
Johnson?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @06:06PM (1 child)
Nope. Clinton.
But hadn't you heard? If you're past menopause you're no longer a woman. [soylentnews.org] At least that's what Runaway1956 says.
As such, she's a guy.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 20 2019, @06:24PM
Nope. Clinton.
Then we can blame you. A vote for Clinton is a vote for war just as much as the other guy, the only possible difference being in whose pockets the profits end up.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Informative) by Sulla on Thursday June 20 2019, @11:45PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB-jUAFSPFM [youtube.com]
Please actually listen to this, its like two minutes long. In it Trump suggests that although we have had issues with Iran up until now he thinks that this was most likely a mistake. That although it was over international waters it was most likely a rogue general and not Iranian policy, and in addition it was an unmanned drone so who cares.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:23PM (9 children)
Why the heck would Israel nuke Russia? Seems more likely they would just nuke most of their neighbors in the Middle East.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:15PM
And destroy their own property values?!
-Location! Location! Location!
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:40PM (7 children)
I heard that one way back in 1991, during the fall of the Soviet Union. A religious fanatic relative of mine prophecied (or more like parroted) that Gorby would reemerge as absolute ruler of the Soviet Union, and then invade Israel. Why? Because the birth mark on Gorbachev's forehead is the Mark of Evil, it's the End Times, and an attack on the Holy Land that results in nuclear war is how Armageddon would come about.
It's scary how many people there are who think like that. They're not hitting on all cylinders. Of all the diseases that need curing, I wonder if gross stupidity, mental issues, and brain damage ought to be made the top priority, lest those kind of people ever gain control of a large nuclear arsenal...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:04PM (2 children)
You only say stuff like that because you're jealous AOC is prettier than you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @04:59AM (1 child)
To be fair, she's prettier than you too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @05:04PM
AOC, young, pretty... It's a wonder Trump hasn't proposed to her.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Fnord666 on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:21PM (1 child)
Too late.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @10:26PM
Always has been, always will be.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @06:17PM (1 child)
They're not hitting on all cylinders. Of all the diseases that need curing, I wonder if gross stupidity, mental issues, and brain damage ought to be made the top priority, lest those kind of people ever gain control of a large nuclear arsenal...
Very hard to do when we give a free pass to the most virulent form of mental illness there is: Religion. Wildly contagious, destroys all critical thought, stokes feels of mistrust, hatred, and superiority over others, divides populations into us and them more readily, and with more tenacity, than just about anything else, and in many regions cannot be criticized on pain of imprisonment, death, or worse.
Until we recognize religion for what it is, a highly contagious form of mental illness, and treat it as such, we will not be able to prevent this kind of madness from taking hold all over the world, or the dire consequences that always results from this kind of mentality gaining the levers of power.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @01:07AM
Religion might make good medicine, but its bad as a diet.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:40PM (8 children)
Yeah, because Trump's deal with North Korea was so much better, eh? Israel as a source of this information is about as suspicious as it gets, and IAEA has not released any sort of smoking gun. They've had the capability to. It is certainly in Israel's interests to make a mountain of a molehill and we've never seen forged material [wikipedia.org] either. The materials analysis from the warehouse is due this month to see if they were storing any material there. And to the contrary, it looked like Iran was still sticking to the deal despite "the great dealmaker" renegging on it.
And the notion that Iran will automatically nuke Israel is about the biggest [citation needed] I've ever seen. The U.S. has never wanted mideast stability, it has wanted mideast control. I have yet to see any evidence that Iran shouldn't have the bomb other than rampant racist fearmongering, and given past US-Israeli/Iranian relations I can see why Iran wants to be on equal terms. Maybe in their eyes then they would have to, finally, be dealt with fairly. Our pulling out of deals unilaterally does nothing to address that concern.
I suggest you come out of your fear hole and actually examine international relations internationally instead of being a puppet of Israel. Be careful, you might find human beings there.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:10PM (7 children)
Monotheistic government should be reason enough. If we had such a government, I would be very afraid. Religious zealots are not to be trusted with ANY power, let alone the ultimate power to destroy the world. You may observe that Israel has nukes here, and maybe gain an "insightful" mod, or a touche.
I can understand that as well. Still, go back to "monotheistic government".
If you still don't understand that, just go back to any year between 1960 and 1990, find a Youtube or other video, of almost any US televangelist. Sumbitch be standing in front of the camera, frothing at the mouth, telling everyone their duty to God, oftentimes obliquely suggesting that we should just shoot everyone we don't like. If that isn't enough to convince you, then come back and ask for a link to good jihadi's beheading poor dumb chumps. There are plenty of them on the internet - try liveleaks if you want.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:57PM
You would do better to follow the money instead of all that religious bullcrap.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:25PM (2 children)
Monotheistic means nothing.
Followers of Satan, or of Mammon, or atheists, are as monotheistic as anybody else. The three monotheistic religions is a meme that does not withstand the scrutiny of a 12 years old. But ok the power of memes is recognized, mass media is based on that.
The chess play in middle East and soon Europe is far from over.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @08:28PM (1 child)
No love for eclectic pagans? :(
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday June 21 2019, @10:23AM
Go hug a tree.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @10:23AM (2 children)
You're just providing a better case for the US to not be allowed to have nukes. See also: Trump and Mike Pence.
Pakistan has nukes and was harboring bin Laden (who was Saudi just like the majority of the 9/11 hijackers). What makes Iran a greater danger to the US people than Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?
There's reasonable justification for Iran to want nukes as a deterrent defence against Israel and the USA to a lesser degree.
Iran can't really attack the USA (or US allies) with nukes since they're unlikely to have enough ballistic nuclear missiles with sufficient range and the USA could turn Iran into glass in response.
The position of the Iranian leadership is less precarious than Trump's position and they'd have more to lose assuming the US doesn't attack Iran. The Iranian leaders are less likely to "push the button" than Trump is.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 21 2019, @01:40PM (1 child)
Perhaps you're not fluent in English. The United States has a constitutional democracy, which clearly spells out that gubbermint may not make any laws with respect to religion. We don't HAVE a monotheistic government. Iran does.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @09:44PM
Your constitution also says the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Telling Iran they can't have nukes seems like an infringement to me.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:42PM (4 children)
Israel won't nuke Russia.
The "Samson" option [wikipedia.org], as it is called, would simply nuke most of the middle East. Not Russia.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:20PM (2 children)
That article uses conservative numbers for Israel's nuclear arsenal. I'm quite sure that Israel had in the neighborhood of 200 weapons way back in the '80's. No one is quite sure when they acquired their first, nor is anyone sure how many they've stockpiled. It's a pretty sure bet that they rank #4 in the world for possession.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @08:41PM (1 child)
I think the problem with Israel isn't the normal nukes they have. It's the fact they have more than enough know how to pull off a neutrino weapon with enough yield to wipe out life on earth and just enough religious nut jobs to pull the trigger.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday June 21 2019, @11:02AM
neutrino weapon with enough yield to wipe out life on earth
Neutrinos, the things that pass through anything, will somehow wipe out life on earth?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @11:59PM
So millions of Moslems get nuked? Win-win.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:39PM (1 child)
Looks like the Hillaristas are out in force again, collectively modding up a vapid GP AC to +5, while lashing out against anyone critical.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @06:00PM
Inferiority complex much, friend?
If you have an argument that refutes something you disagree with, make it.
And making up conspiracies about how SN users are secretly colluding against you seems like weak sauce.
Free tip: Hillary Clinton is irrelevant. And has been since 9 November 2016.
Oh, and you're welcome.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @02:53PM
Thanks OBAMA!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by looorg on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:10PM (12 children)
Not for not but you do seem to elect an never ending stream of idiots as President. Trump is hardly the first idiot that gets suckered into yet another war. Which was the last president again that was not involved in a "war" of some kind?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:15PM (10 children)
The choice forced upon the voters was Cliton or Trump. We elected the lesser evil one. Iran should be turned into molten glass.
(Score: 3, Informative) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:00PM (8 children)
The choice forced upon the voters was Cliton or Trump.
You must be looking at some media poll. We had other choices on the ballot, but over 95% chose not to use them. Nobody was "forced" to vote for anybody.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:36PM (7 children)
Bernie was forced out by Hellary buying the DNC. That left Cliton and Trump. The rest of what was remaining were shills.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:46PM (6 children)
stupid fucking voters always have some excuse not to vote third party. hey, you dumb fuck! it doesn't matter if johnson or the green candidate were dumb asses who couldn't win. the fucking point is to break up the monopoly in the media, the debates, the polls, ballot access, etc.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @06:14PM (2 children)
There. FTFY.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @06:59PM (1 child)
Yeah, except people constantly talk about how they hate both parties but feel the need to vote for the 'lesser evil.' So, yes, voters aren't even voting for candidates that they like or agree with. The US's voting system is absolutely atrocious.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 20 2019, @07:43PM
Well, that certainly isn't the system's fault. You stick a fork into the light socket, chances are you will get zapped.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @07:55PM (1 child)
In 2016 I was actually considering voting for Johnson but voted for Clinton instead. Gary Johnson was, unfortunately, not a serious candidate, at least not nearly as serious as I would have hoped. Remember the infamous "What is Aleppo?" [politico.com] question? Sorry, but if the candidate knows even less about current events than I do, then he is not fit to be President. This was really a missed opportunity; they had Hillary facing off against the Orange Catgrabber. The Libertarians could have easily picked up at least a few states on the electoral map in that election; in fact, they should have. Even that would have been a major political earthquake in American politics. Instead, they looked like a bunch of out-of-touch, stoner potheads. The Libertarians--and, indeed, all third parties--have a little more than a year to get up to speed on the issues for 2020. I would suggest they use their time wisely.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Thursday June 20 2019, @11:56PM
I am not a fan of 2016 Gary "Dude weed lmao" Johnson but the Aleppo question was pretty unfair. They switched to questions about foreign policy and Johnson was caught off guard. As he said he thought Aleppo was ALEPPO some sort of acronym. It seemed like the classic "gotcha" question they try against people instead of just asking about his Syria policy.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @12:09AM
^Stupid idiot doesn't know shit about politics.^
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @10:49PM
Huh?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by J053 on Thursday June 20 2019, @09:53PM
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:14PM
Breaking (from CNN): Bin Laden is still alive and he lives in Iran, WMDs detected via satellite in Teheran
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @03:31PM (2 children)
There's an up side to all this: MAGA hats. A nice high-visibility "I'm stupid" sign that you can see coming from a quarter mile away or more.
So we suddenly have a situation where many of the previously unidentified stupid people out there are willingly carrying their "I'm stupid" signs and you want to complain about it? Really? Well, yes, it did take a looming economic crash and war with Iran to get there because one of said sign carriers is "running" things, but still...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @12:49AM
+1 Insightful! Mod parent up, if ever there was a need for a 6, your post is it.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @02:34AM
https://zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/inline-images/two%20platforms.jpg [googleapis.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:07PM (2 children)
Comment on this please: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vqYJRc0TJkQ [youtube.com]
Who made the right choice again?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:25PM
When Democrats arrive in hell, Hillary will be there to greet them. Then they'll wish they had invested in Coppertone, and research into SPF 50-gazillion.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @05:03AM
Yeah? Well, I'd answer that with this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYDfwUJzYQg [youtube.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by istartedi on Thursday June 20 2019, @04:33PM (1 child)
Nope. There's nothing particularly bad about Trump in this regard. We have a president who, like other ones in the past, cannot resist the MIC. GWB, Cheney, WMD. Some people actually think he was a better president. Trump's tally of blood and treasure lost overseas is nowhere near that guy's. The GWB administration started one that's STILL GOING. Obama couldn't stop it. None of them can stop it. The MIC companies must make their quarterly numbers, or shareholders are going to be pissed.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by realDonaldTrump on Friday June 21 2019, @05:20AM
Trust me, I'm in charge. 100%. And until they put someone else in charge, we won't get into any more wars than we need to. Not one more than is absolutely needed.
George Bush the 2nd. foolishly spent $7 TRILLION DOLLARS in the Middle East. In Iraq and Afghanistan. It is time to start rebuilding our beautiful Country!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @05:41PM (1 child)
you're an idiot if you think any president is running the MIC. if you try, you get kenneddy'd.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @12:57AM
Kennedied, there fixed that for you :)
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @06:05PM
Putin has chimed in saying that the US should not retaliate. At least Trump's boss has told him how to react.
(Score: 4, Informative) by cmdrklarg on Thursday June 20 2019, @06:20PM (1 child)
Maintain? One of Trump's most important goals was the tearing down of anything and everything that Obama had done. The deal didn't fall through because he failed, it was deliberate.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Friday June 21 2019, @05:27AM
Crooked Obama made a TERRIBLE DEAL that let Iran keep Enrichment Factory. They never closed that one. And now they're saying, "oh, we're about to make more Enriched Uranium than the Deal allows." If he was trying to do America a favor he failed MASSIVELY. He didn't do us any favors, believe me!!!! foxnews.com/world/iran-to-break-uranium-stockpile-limit-set-by-nuclear-deal-spokesman-says [foxnews.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20 2019, @10:36PM (1 child)
If Obama had wanted the deal to stick, he should have gotten it ratified. Wait, he couldn't? Hmm. Think about that. It's quite understandable for foreigners not understanding how the US government works, but US politicians shouldn't need remedial civics classes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 21 2019, @02:26AM
And yet, they do. Oh , well...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Friday June 21 2019, @12:49AM (1 child)
Start a war, Americans go RAH RAH, his popularity goes up, he gets re-elected.
Worked in the past!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by realDonaldTrump on Friday June 21 2019, @05:31AM
It worked for F.D.R. It worked for Ronnie Reagan. And, it worked for my good friend Bill Clinton. It won't work for me. Because I always always put AMERICA FIRST!!!!
(Score: 1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Friday June 21 2019, @05:14AM
Iran has been formally PUT ON NOTICE -- the United States no longer makes empty threats. They should have been thankful for the HORRIBLE one-sided deal the U.S. made with them. That was a deal should have never, ever been made. Why didn't we get the uranium stockpile -- it was "sent" to Russia. And I've never gotten over the fact that Obama was able to send $1.7 Billion Dollars in CASH to Iran and nobody in Congress, the FBI or Justice called for an investigation.
By the way, a big hand to all who voted for me. I needed 270 votes to win. I got 304. Often referred to as, a LANDSLIDE. But it's nothing like the one that's comming in 2020!!!!