Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

Breaking News
posted by martyb on Monday December 28 2020, @07:00PM   Printer-friendly
from the Hang-in-there dept.

Many sources are reporting that Trump finally signed the pandemic relief bill:

Not gonna summarize all the bits in it - it's some 5k pages of legalese gobbledygook, but I understand it continues augmented unemployment benefits, eviction suspension, funding to prevent government shutdown, and another direct cash payment.

I'm sure it also has a bunch of "porky pork", but the people are suffering, time is of essence, and it should have been done months ago.


Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) 2
  • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:15PM (15 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:15PM (#1092142)

    He delayed it 45 days unless his redlining and some other issues are addressed.

    Maybe they can look into that guy who said 2020 was the "most secure election" ever. Then the next day it was announced the entire government, including his department, had been infiltrated since March. All under his watch:

    https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/12/joint-statement-elections-infrastructure-government-coordinating-council-election [cisa.gov]

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-55318815 [bbc.com]

    Hard to comprehend how in-your-face corrupt/incompetent these people are.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:58PM (14 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:58PM (#1092154)

      He delayed it 45 days unless his redlining and some other issues are addressed.

      You misunderstand what rescission [wikipedia.org] is and how it works.

      The $2.3 trillion government spending (1.4 trillion) and COVID relief ($900 billion) *law* (it was signed into law yesterday by Trump) goes into effect when the law says it does (today).

      Trump's rescission *request* applies only to the government spending package and not the COVID relief package. What's more, only funding *actually included in the request* will be affected.

      What's more, the Trump administration has not yet made that rescission request [vox.com].

      Regardless of what Trump puts in that request, it's unlikely in the extreme that the Senate will pass it, and even less likely that the House will do so. Which means it's DOA. In fact, I'd be surprised if the House Appropriations committee did anything other than sit on it until January 20th.

      It will be interesting to see what Trump puts in such a request, but it's likely to just be stuff that will energize his base.

      If Bugs Bunny were around to see this stupidity from jackass [gstatic.com], he'd likely exclaim "What a maroon!"

      But he's not, so I'll say it for him: What a maroon!

      https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/2/683 [cornell.edu]

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:06PM (13 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:06PM (#1092158)

        So are memes illegal now or no? I thought we had 45 more days.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:08PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:08PM (#1092160)

          Yes. You are now illegal.

          Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect your $600 COVID relief check.

          • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @09:38PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @09:38PM (#1092208)

            Silly AC. This is the rise of the Bidenreich. He will not go to jail, the PedoFurher will eliminate the jails. Instead he will go to the reeducation camp!

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:30PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:30PM (#1092218)

              It was Trump who signed that bill into law, friend.

              Biden is just a spectator for the next 23 days.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @04:56AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @04:56AM (#1092359)

                If Trump isn't a two term president then I'm a monkeys uncle. You will be to.

                • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @05:25AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @05:25AM (#1092368)

                  Wow. Your sister really gets around, huh? We talking Rhesus'? Macqaques? Chimps?

        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday December 28 2020, @08:39PM (7 children)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday December 28 2020, @08:39PM (#1092178) Journal

          Trump versus TikTok: US appeals order blocking restrictions [aljazeera.com]

          According to the Trump Administration they are illegal.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @09:31PM (6 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @09:31PM (#1092205)

            And Democrats voted 100% for the meme fine. It all makes sense since Trump is a lifelong Democrat.

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:28PM (5 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:28PM (#1092217)

              And Democrats voted 100% for the meme fine. It all makes sense since Trump is a lifelong Democrat.

              And 97.5% of Republicans in the House did so as well. Your point?

              Trump is most certainly not a Democrat. He is the *owner* of the Republican Party.

              And he is that because the Republican Party are a bunch of gullible suckers. Just like L'Orange likes 'em.

              • (Score: -1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:41PM (4 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:41PM (#1092221)

                Sorry, I can't tell you the point because anything that goes against red team vs blue team gets immediately downvoted. It is all important to be for one team and against the other.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:54PM (3 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:54PM (#1092226)

                  Fuck off, jackass.

                  Is that red or blue? I can't tell.

                  Neither. You're just an asshole. Feel better now?

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:11AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:11AM (#1092261)

                    Kiss the asshole and make up, win-win, everyone feels good.

                  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:13AM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:13AM (#1092263)

                    Red vs blue otherwise known as the Reptillians vs the Demons. Vote! Get out there and VOTE!

                    • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:32AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:32AM (#1092272)

                      Where's that '-1 Why do you hate America and Americans?' mod when you need it?

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:25PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:25PM (#1092146)

    > The CASE Act could mean Internet users facing $30,000 penalties for sharing a meme or making a video. It has no place in must pass legislation.

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/12/we-have-one-day-tell-congress-not-bankrupt-internet-users [eff.org]

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:37PM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:37PM (#1092149)

      The CASE Act has no place in any law. It's unconstitutional because Congress does not have the authority to create courts outside of Article III of the Constitution.

      https://www.rstreet.org/2019/07/16/potential-pitfalls-of-the-case-act/ [rstreet.org]

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:40PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:40PM (#1092180)

        Constitutionality has NOTHING to do with current US government actions, EITHER side of the aisle.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @07:04AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @07:04AM (#1092381)

          Watch SCOTUS rule that it's legal with the liberal justices dissenting and Trump's justices in the majority, and then our constitutional scholars and liberty tree waterers will be nowhere in sight.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:03AM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:03AM (#1092394)

          time for a great reset back to just the constitution, toss the rest of the added garbage

          • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:42PM (2 children)

            by isostatic (365) on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:42PM (#1092436) Journal

            Is murder explicitly illegal in the constitution?

            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @04:31PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @04:31PM (#1092504)

              This is a common misunderstanding of what the constitution is. The constitution does not lay out restrictions on what you, a citizen, can (or cannot) do. Its entire purpose is to restrict the power of the government. This is the whole point behind the notion of inalienable rights. For instance you inherently, as human able to communicate, already have the right of free speech. The constitution does not and cannot grant you that, anymore than it can grant you the right to breathe. But what it can do is to prevent the government from trying to restrict that right. The problem we've seen over the past centuries is the government increasingly "interpreting" the constitution in a way that can be succinctly stated as, 'there is no such thing as unconstitutional act.'

              We are now imprisoning people who refuse to give government officials the passwords to their computer devices even though the 5th amendment was designed specifically to prevent this sort of behavior. We have massive unwarranted surveillance and collection of information, sent with an expectation of privacy, in spite of the fact that this is exactly the sort of behaviors that the 4th amendment was designed to prevent. And much, much, much more.

              The issue at hand here is that a constitution is a pointless piece of paper. It has no meaning unless people *make* it have a meaning. You cannot rely on the government to enforce the constitution when it is specifically the government that is breaking it. This is specifically what Jefferson was referencing with his "tree of liberty" reference:

              And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.

              As a society trends towards weakness and pacification, it's simply inevitable that authoritarianism will gradually take hold for authoritarian is the greatest of desires for those that seek power, and with a pacified population there is nothing left to restrain it.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:49PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:49PM (#1092639)

                Whoosh

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:16AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:16AM (#1092767)

            time for a great reset back to just the constitution, toss the rest of the added garbage

            Yeah! Especially the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments!

            Every since we passed those, the niggers just get more and more uppity. Amirite!?!

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:39PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:39PM (#1092179)
      What will happen is only an unlucky minority and "enemies of the state" will get hit with those penalties.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:28PM (69 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:28PM (#1092147)

    This bill sucks because the only way to pass a bill through the Republican-controlled Senate is to bargain over tax breaks for wealthy and special interests and screwing over working class Americans. There are tax breaks for special interests like Hollywood but Republicans want to cut unemployment and direct payments, claiming they're too expensive. The bill was also delayed because Pat Toomey whined that the ability of the Federal Reserve to provide emergency lending. The deficit doesn't matter when tax breaks can be provided for the wealthy, but it's tremendously important when aid for working class Americans is involved. We could do useful things like cancelling all federal student loan debt and regulating the wasteful expenditures of higher education. That will never pass because Republicans will whine that it's too expensive, but yet we apparently can afford tax breaks for the wealthy and large corporations.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @07:55PM (#1092153)

      You being played my friend, they are both controlled opposition to one another to distract you while the debt, corporate favors, and spying grows.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:47PM (61 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:47PM (#1092182)

      You make good points, but still aren't quite getting it. Working-class American's work where? Corporations, right? If you tax the corporations more, they lay people off. And the economy slows down.

      Absolutely NO argument from me- there is far too much money influencing Congress and govt. in general, but I don't see how to fix that. It's entrenched beyond repair.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by barbara hudson on Monday December 28 2020, @09:10PM (60 children)

        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Monday December 28 2020, @09:10PM (#1092192) Journal
        History says if you tax corporations more, (1) they do their best to expand to make up the difference, and (2) with increased social spending, you have a more educated, employable workforce that feels invested in the economy because it works for them.

        Trickledown never worked in all of human history.

        --
        SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
        • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @09:28PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @09:28PM (#1092204)

          You might enjoy looking into how the federal reserve works, and where money comes from in general.

          Because it is all trickle down.

        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:23PM (8 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:23PM (#1092216)

          You got upvoted because people want to believe.

          What you wrote sounds nice. I wish it were true. Sadly, it isn't, and most people aren't educated enough to see why. (it's college-level economics) Politicians are happy to repeat nice-sounding nonsense.

          1. Companies almost always "do their best to expand". (some non-public ones are run by people without that desire) Wanting to expand is different from expanding. Nobody wants to go out of business, but it happens. The reality is that corporate taxes are split various ways according to elasticity of supply and demand, both for the product and for the inputs. Corporations might raise prices, reduce product quality, cut worker hours, lay off workers, or leave the market. The general result is that things are worse for everybody.
          2. That "more educated" workforce is a lot of bullshit. The nation spends a lot of money on inefficient education that people just use to signal a non-lower-class status. The value of most of the education is like the value of standing up at a baseball game: the only value is because everybody in front of you is standing up, and it would be far better if nobody stood up. Only two types of college degrees, nursing and engineering, are strongly associated with employment in the relevant field. Every other kind of degree is about signalling social class in a zero-sum competition. An individual can benefit from playing that zero-sum game, but society doesn't benefit from supporting it. Society would be better off if some of that "education" time were instead spent on productive labor. For example, what I do for a job is much more valuable to society than the time I spent doing poetry analysis and Marxist literary criticism in a mandated English class.
          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Monday December 28 2020, @11:56PM (7 children)

            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Monday December 28 2020, @11:56PM (#1092253) Journal
            World War Two, with taxation rates of up to 90%, prove my point.

            Low taxes on the rich discourage investment in products and services, diverting money away to finalization and rent-seeking behaviour.

            Learn from history.

            --
            SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
            • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:26AM (4 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:26AM (#1092269)

              Clownwig tranny hudson's HISTORY of FAIL exposed https://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=14501614&cid=59043858 [slashdot.org] shot down publicly in front of 1,000's after "it" essentially states "how great a coder I am" on THIS site, parent to this here that proves otherwise https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=41274&page=1&cid=1091104#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] with documented FACT of twisted tranny barb fuckups (bar = all talk, no action, no proof of mere talk) and further errors after that too here https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=41274&page=1&cid=1091785#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] AND the great admin barbara hudson, no proof as usual, more bullshit lies SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES yet again on her "it" admin skillz https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=41315&page=1&cid=1092189#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] for being a bullshit liar sucking WELFARE IN CANADA, below retirement age, faking being BLIND but using YOUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS to spout it's SWINERY online, leftist (that ain't "right") bullshit. "Social spending" on REJECT defective product mentalcases like barbara (alias TOM) hudson = waste of TIME trying to fix a BROKEN from BIRTH freak like "it" or anyone LIKE it. Barbara Hudson will just buy another "clownwig" hahaha (it does wear one, tom hudson = BALD weasel whimp homo) with the money at your expense so it can be a twisted fucking FREAK!!!

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:53AM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:53AM (#1092285)

                Just FYI your posts are so nuts no one has to even slog through one sentence in order to ignore it.

                • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @01:47AM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @01:47AM (#1092305)

                  I laughed my ass off when this was pointed out https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=41315&page=1&cid=1092282#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] and since barb the twisted tranny ran afterward you know it's clownwig is spinning on its bald yet want to be a woman flipped out head so fast flames are erupting. So much for barb's bragging on known bs C cgi bin work it stated it did had issues with.

                  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @07:12AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @07:12AM (#1092383)

                    How does the gender essentialist legality rule for bald women who have had at least 3 menstrual cycles, such as breast cancer patients?

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:48AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:48AM (#1092406)

                    I laughed my ass off when this was pointed out " rel="url2html-11692">https://soy

                    Made it that far and didn't click the link, you are just that transparent.

            • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @04:12AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @04:12AM (#1092346)

              Taxation rates of 90% were entirely theoretical. Every kind of stupid exemption and credit was available to avoid that tax.

              Tax rates, as actually paid, haven't really changed.

              I happen to think that a tax code full of crazy exemptions isn't reasonable. It favors the people with good accountants.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Monday December 28 2020, @10:53PM (5 children)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday December 28 2020, @10:53PM (#1092225) Journal
          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @11:05PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @11:05PM (#1092232)

            Trump raised taxes on rich people in places like California, New York, and Massachusetts. They used to have an unlimited ability to deduct local taxes from federal taxes. Trump got that limited to $10,000 and tried to go lower.

            In that same effort, he increased the standard deduction. This helps the non-rich. Most people got lower taxes.

            Biden wants to undo that. Voting for him was voting for "trickle down", so I'm sure you didn't do that.

            • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:06AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:06AM (#1092412)

              Wow, you sock puppeted that shit up to 2 and one sucker added another to get you to 3?

              Saddest troll around.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:35PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:35PM (#1092632)

              lol

              "Trump made blue states pay a bigger share of the red state social programs, pissing on the principle of states rights. You should be grateful, because he also did something nice that was really obvious."

              "Also, even though he literally has never said he'd undo the increase to the standard deduction, he's totally going to because Republican politicians always oppose every idea the other side has even when it's good."

              There are real arguments to be made, but I'd be casting pearls before swine doing any more than mocking this tool.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:54PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:54PM (#1092646)
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:31AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:31AM (#1092771)

              In that same effort, he increased the standard deduction. This helps the non-rich. Most people got lower taxes.

              Until two years ago. In 2019, those making the *least* started paying *more*. And in 2021, that will apply to those making less than $40,000/year. And by 2027, anyone making up to $75,000/year will be paying *more*. [wikipedia.org]

              Those making more than $75,000/year will continue to suck at the government teat indefinitely.

              And the corporate tax cuts, those are permanent.

              Yeah, Trump did the middle class a *huge* favor. Yeah, right.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @11:15PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @11:15PM (#1092233)

          > Trickledown never worked in all of human history.

          It certainly did work. It has kept people arguing back and forth for decades.

        • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:18AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:18AM (#1092266)

          Tranny hudson's HISTORY of incompetent stupidity https://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=14501614&cid=59043858 [slashdot.org] shot down publicly in front of 1,000's after "it" essentially states "how great a coder I am" on THIS site, parent to this here that proves otherwise https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=41274&page=1&cid=1091104#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] with documented FACT of twisted tranny barb fuckups (bar = all talk, no action, no proof of mere talk) and further errors after that too here https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=41274&page=1&cid=1091785#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] AND the great admin barbara hudson, no proof as usual, more bullshit lies SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES yet again on her "it" admin skillz https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=41315&page=1&cid=1092189#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] for being a bullshit liar sucking WELFARE IN CANADA, below retirement age, faking being BLIND but using YOUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS to spout it's SWINERY online, leftist (that ain't "right") bullshit. "Social spending" on REJECT defective product mentalcases like barbara (alias TOM) hudson = waste of TIME trying to fix a BROKEN from BIRTH freak like "it" or anyone LIKE it. Barbara Hudson will just buy another "clownwig" (it does wear one, tom hudson = BALD weasel whimp homo) with the money at your expense so it can be a twisted fucking FREAK!!!

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:31PM (41 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:31PM (#1092433) Journal

          History says if you tax corporations more, (1) they do their best to expand to make up the difference, and (2) with increased social spending, you have a more educated, employable workforce that feels invested in the economy because it works for them.

          Trickledown never worked in all of human history.

          I've seen this cognitive dissonance before. We can't trust businesses to do anything except pay for our shit, followed by fantasies about how voluminous the shit they'll pay for. The obvious rebuttals to the above two points is first, if you consider history for real, like the last 50 years for a glaring example, you'll see that businesses don't do their best to "make up the difference". Instead, they move or close up. Off-shoring and automation are things and they've been done for far less than what you've proposed here.

          Right now in the US, we're running a test of your model and it's failing. California believes, much as you do, that businesses are merely a tax revenue source which can be tapped heavily. They similarly have a remarkable disregard for the effectiveness of what that tax revenue is spent on, that "social spending". Meanwhile Texas among other states, doesn't have that venal attitude.

          What do we see? Considerable movement of businesses out of California into more business-friendly places like Texas. I think it'll be far more educational than your version of history what happens to California and Texas next.

          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by barbara hudson on Tuesday December 29 2020, @04:16PM (35 children)

            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday December 29 2020, @04:16PM (#1092499) Journal
            Business no longer invests in plant or factories if they can avoid it, because tax policy encourages them to make money by buying up competitors instead, or trading stocks instead of actually producing goods and services. The lower the tax rates, the less incentive to actually take a risk innovating.

            Look at tech - where's the innovation since the turn of the century? Windows is still Windows, OSX is based on FreeBSD. Linux is a Unix (1980s) wannabe. Smartphones were around in the 90s. So we're the tablets - we just called them PDAs.

            Chromebooks? We had dumb terminals like forever. Graphic browsers to access the Internet? Some guy created one in the 80s that worked over dial-up and allowed interactive graphics, and user-defined graphics and interactions.

            Innovation is dead, it's just everyone competing to create the latest iteration of old ideas to try to become a unicorn.

            Is open source any different? No - just look at the 2,000 different distros. All with the same software.

            The innovators at the beginning of the small computing era were done by one or two people in a garage, or on their kitchen tables. They didn't try to get a billion dollars before they had a product. It was interesting times with interesting people doing interesting things. You're not going to find the interesting innovative new stuff from the big guys, but by a new generation of individuals and small groups who aren't chasing the big deal and have to limit what they do to avoid scaring off investors.

            So neither Texas nor California are going to do anything but give us more of the same shit, different day.

            And both California and Texas are untenable long term because of global warming. Already Texas ranchers have to be careful not to let cattle overheat when grazing. What's it going to be like 25 years from now?

            10 million domestic climate migrants.

            50 years from now? >p> 100 million domestic climate migrants. Because when things tip, they snowball.

            --
            SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
            • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:53PM (5 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:53PM (#1092644)

              Normal business has never directly invested in much of anything avoidable. That's a job for banks and the stock market. They still invest.

              Innovation in tech has been huge. CRISPR gene editing is new. Quantum supremacy (for computation) has been claimed. We invented the AGM-114R9X bladed missile to limit undesired casualties. You sound like the patent inventor who quit around 1900, saying there was nothing left to invent.

              Open source also innovates. The rr debugger is a fine example, bringing reverse debugging without relying only on snapshots or emulation. Another example is rust, able to create safe unchecked native code without garbage collection.

              Dismissing upgrades as "more of the same shit" is terrible. I like the Ford Mustang much better than the Ford Pinto, and I like that much more than the Ford Model T.

              Your fears of global warming are way overblown. Fear is how news reporters get eyeballs, and fear is how politicians make you hate the other candidates, so of course you get a 24x7 feed of fearmongering. If people have to move, so what? Alaska is huge. We can sacrifice Hawaii to make Alaska comfortable. Note that I'm definitely not in agreement that this will happen. I bought a Florida house near the beach.

              If we end up needing walls to hold back the ocean, costs will rise. We'd best have our economy in good shape. That means not going down your desired path, which leads to being like Venezuela. People in Venezuela might need to live in the mountains because they can't afford seawalls. That's what happens when you fuck your economy with leftist shit.

              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday December 30 2020, @12:41AM (3 children)

                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday December 30 2020, @12:41AM (#1092690) Journal
                You really don't get it. When the glaciers made their miles-high advance, they pliers any topsoil aheadcif them. When they receded,,there was a huge outflow from water that had built up behind the leading edge, further displacing topsoil.'

                You can't grow much in the boulder fields and moraines of the North.

                --
                SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:07AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:07AM (#1092763)

                  Soil in the Amazon rainforest is terrible. It's lacking lots of nutrients. Somehow, plants grow. That is because the Amazon isn't really fucking cold like Alaska.

                  So of course you can't grow much in the boulder fields and moraines of the North. Plants need heat. They also like carbon dioxide, with nearly all plants growing much better if you increase the levels. In other words, we need to burn more coal.

                  Florida is also lacking nutrients. Much of the state is pure white sand. Oh well, fertilizer exists. It's like hydroponics. Tomatoes grow really well in pure white sand if you fertilize them.

                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday December 31 2020, @04:20AM

                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday December 31 2020, @04:20AM (#1093111) Journal
                    Plants above a certain temperature stop producing oxygen from co2, same as they require oxygen at night. So stop burning stuff, McKay?
                    --
                    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 30 2020, @09:55PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 30 2020, @09:55PM (#1092993) Journal

                  When the glaciers made their miles-high advance, they pliers any topsoil aheadcif them. When they receded,,there was a huge outflow from water that had built up behind the leading edge, further displacing topsoil.'

                  They also left a bunch of glacial till which is excellent for making new topsoil. That incidentally means that a lot of those glacial lands are excellent places now for growing crops, due to the topsoil that has been created since the glaciers retreated.

              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday December 31 2020, @03:41AM

                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday December 31 2020, @03:41AM (#1093103) Journal

                The re debugger isn't new and innovative. There have been commercial c/c++ packages that allow you to unwind the stack, change variables, and proceed, set break points and step through execution, reverse and change thevprogram flow, etc. since the 90s. So once again, open source is decades late. >p> I was quite happy to pay for commercial development tools because I got support. Because the people working on ithwm weren't scratching an itch. And money was available to pay people to fix bugs , which most people would rather work on new stuff.

                This year the app stores made over $100 billion, passing $70 billion on to developers. Apple generated 68% of that, despite having a smaller market share than android. So while android tries to pass itself as open, if you want to be able to support your product long term, that takes money. Apple is the place to be for developers, especially since they're lowering the cut on projects that make less than a million (and if you're making over a million a year, cry me a river).

                The Linux distros are a mess. Too many, distro hopping is still a thing after decades. There needs to be consolidation but it won't happen. You know it, I know it, so does every user.

                Progress in Linux is yet another distro, with the same packages everyone else has, yet another package manager, yet another non-intuitive UI change. The distros from the turn of the century were more intuitive.

                --
                SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 29 2020, @10:15PM (27 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 29 2020, @10:15PM (#1092651) Journal

              Business no longer invests in plant or factories if they can avoid it, because tax policy encourages them to make money by buying up competitors instead, or trading stocks instead of actually producing goods and services. The lower the tax rates, the less incentive to actually take a risk innovating.

              So what? Business can't avoid that and they invest in plants, factories, etc. As to tax policy, that's a ridiculous claim. I'll note that higher nominal tax rates increases the incentives to evade or avoid the taxes. It will backfire just like it did back then.

              Look at tech - where's the innovation since the turn of the century? Windows is still Windows, OSX is based on FreeBSD. Linux is a Unix (1980s) wannabe. Smartphones were around in the 90s. So we're the tablets - we just called them PDAs.

              Why is reinventing the wheel considered innovation?

              And both California and Texas are untenable long term because of global warming. Already Texas ranchers have to be careful not to let cattle overheat when grazing. What's it going to be like 25 years from now?

              They would have had to be just as careful 200 years ago. Not every climate problem has magically shown up in the past 40 years.

              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday December 30 2020, @12:35AM (26 children)

                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday December 30 2020, @12:35AM (#1092688) Journal
                Business has spent 40 years NOT investing in plants and factoriess. Rather in financial vehicles like the slice-and-dice triple-a rated securitized mortgages that were worthless.

                And the temps in Texas are now too hot in some areas to graze traditional cattle, so they're looking for genetic bloodlines that can tolerate the higher heat and lack of good grazing grounds. This was not a problem 200 years ago.

                --
                SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 30 2020, @02:18AM (25 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 30 2020, @02:18AM (#1092718) Journal

                  Business has spent 40 years NOT investing in plants and factoriess.

                  Except of course, when they have so invested.

                  Rather in financial vehicles like the slice-and-dice triple-a rated securitized mortgages that were worthless.

                  Actually, those retained a great deal of worth. The problem wasn't the alleged worthlessness of the securities. It was way overestimating the security of the securities and then massively overleveraging. There is nothing in the world that is sure enough to support the 50 to 1 (and greater) leverage (that is, borrowing $50+ for every $1 of assets you have) that was being bet on mortgage securities at that time (with behavior corresponding to that amazing lack of risk awareness such as ignoring large scale fraud).

                  And the temps in Texas are now too hot in some areas to graze traditional cattle

                  As I already noted, that's not new. I suspect rather that those ranchers are expanding into areas that are traditionally hostile to cattle because of the temperature, using climate change money. It'd be far from the first a perceived crisis is used as a pretext to fund an existing scheme that has little to nothing to do with the crisis.

                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday December 30 2020, @03:34AM (24 children)

                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday December 30 2020, @03:34AM (#1092744) Journal
                    What tou suspect is wrong. Places where they were raising cattle in the past now need extraordinary measures to keep the Anika from overheating and dying.

                    And the government bailed out the banks because so many of the properties had a negative worth. One bank tried to just give 8,000 properties to the city. The city said okay, if you pay the costs of bulldozing the homes and disconnecting the utilities. So the bank still holds the properties, they're totally worthless (gutted for wiring, plumbing, fixtures, windows and doors, full of mould, squatters, roof fallen in, fire damage. Some of these places had been flipped sight unseen by one speculator after another, $500 ballooning to $155,000 and then defaulting.

                    --
                    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                    • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday December 30 2020, @03:37AM (15 children)

                      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday December 30 2020, @03:37AM (#1092746) Journal
                      There's no "allegedly" in their worthlessness.

                      Cities offer them for auction, nobody bids because the cost of bulldozing them and turning them into worthless vacant lots is a losers game.

                      --
                      SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 30 2020, @03:51AM (14 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 30 2020, @03:51AM (#1092750) Journal

                        Cities offer them for auction, nobody bids because the cost of bulldozing them and turning them into worthless vacant lots is a losers game.

                        I think that illustrates the problem handily. This alleged problem has nothing to do with securities. And all this real estate is less than twenty years old in good locations. It doesn't cost that much to bulldoze a house and turning it into valuable vacant lots, even if you couldn't flip the house for a profit. I suspect the "cities" of the quote are cities with substantial problems that go way beyond some overbuild of shoddy houses from the last boom. Like Detroit, for a glaring example of a city that has trouble selling homes for auction.

                        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday December 31 2020, @06:29AM (13 children)

                          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday December 31 2020, @06:29AM (#1093135) Journal

                          Chicago, Baltimore, much of California's Inland Empire, which was a high growth area (drive until you can buy) with million dollar homes on brand new streets that became worthless during the recession.

                          So it was both urban slums and suburban rich folk housing that was affected. That's what happens at the end of a speculative property boom when one in every 83 workers is a real estate agent flogging properties that end up being sold multiple times before the first shovel of dirt is dug.

                          And banks approving no-doc mortgages where you don't even need to show a pay slip or tax return. Search for "stated income mortgage."

                          Lots of fraud. People would get a mortgage based on their "stated income", then get a bogus HELOC based on an evaluation from a "cooperative" to take out cash to live on and make the payments, flip the house, and do it again. -p> This isn't that far in the past. It's all documented.

                          --
                          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 31 2020, @12:39PM (12 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 31 2020, @12:39PM (#1093196) Journal

                            Chicago, Baltimore, much of California's Inland Empire, which was a high growth area (drive until you can buy) with million dollar homes on brand new streets that became worthless during the recession.

                            I see I nailed that problem. Deal with the urban management problem and you'll deal with the low value of property that became "worthless".

                            So it was both urban slums and suburban rich folk housing that was affected.

                            Except that it wasn't so.

                            And banks approving no-doc mortgages where you don't even need to show a pay slip or tax return. Search for "stated income mortgage."

                            Irrelevant. In a market bubble where risk blind traders can do almost anything and still make money, this is the sort of thing they do. It's not news. We'll see that again and again, each time there is such a bubble. It didn't make property worthless then or now.

                            • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday December 31 2020, @08:53PM (11 children)

                              by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday December 31 2020, @08:53PM (#1093406) Journal
                              California Inner Empire was not urban blight. It was suburban and very much white professional yuppie land. So no, you didn't nail the problem. The problem was rampant speculation.
                              --
                              SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 31 2020, @10:03PM (10 children)

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 31 2020, @10:03PM (#1093415) Journal

                                California Inner Empire was not urban blight.

                                Yet. A bunch of property that nobody will touch is a symptom of growing blight.

                                • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday December 31 2020, @11:34PM (9 children)

                                  by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday December 31 2020, @11:34PM (#1093429) Journal
                                  Brand now million dollar homes is not blight. But you would not know - low aspirations punk ass who never had a real job, never mind a career.
                                  --
                                  SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 01 2021, @02:16AM (8 children)

                                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 01 2021, @02:16AM (#1093465) Journal

                                    Brand now million dollar homes is not blight.

                                    You just said they were negative dollar homes. Not buying the semantic shift here.

                                    • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 01 2021, @04:13AM (7 children)

                                      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 01 2021, @04:13AM (#1093495) Journal
                                      People invested big bucks to build entire new upper-middle class communities. Then the Great Recession hit.

                                      You couldn't give them away because just the taxes exceeded the income of the suddenly jobless, and they were too far away for someone who was having a problem keeping gas in the car (or was living in their car).

                                      It's all out there. But you're too needing to keep up your fake reality that you won't even search.'

                                      Same as you don't know what it's like to have a real job.

                                      Why don't you have some sort of career? Given up? No real qualifications? No real experience? No real interest? No talent? Too lazy? Too afraid of failure? Personality issues that make you unemployable? Periods of delusion? Constantly delusional? Too busy shit-posting? The aliens gonna get you if you go outside? If you work most of your pay will be garnisheed for debts or fines? Outstanding warrants? Electronic ankle tracking bracelet? Too gross? Tourette's?

                                      Come on, there's got to be some reason your only job experience was part time at a concession stand years ago. Got caught stealing? Criminal record?

                                      --
                                      SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 01 2021, @04:55AM (6 children)

                                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 01 2021, @04:55AM (#1093501) Journal

                                        People invested big bucks to build entire new upper-middle class communities. Then the Great Recession hit. You couldn't give them away because just the taxes exceeded the income of the suddenly jobless, and they were too far away for someone who was having a problem keeping gas in the car (or was living in their car).

                                        As I've already noted, that sort of shitshow is how you kick off urban blight. There's a reason some places have this problem and others don't. And it doesn't have anything to do with too little taxes.

                                        Why don't you have some sort of career? Given up? No real qualifications? No real experience? No real interest? No talent? Too lazy? Too afraid of failure? Personality issues that make you unemployable? Periods of delusion? Constantly delusional? Too busy shit-posting? The aliens gonna get you if you go outside? If you work most of your pay will be garnisheed for debts or fines? Outstanding warrants? Electronic ankle tracking bracelet? Too gross? Tourette's?

                                        What's your career again? As I see it, I don't need nor want whatever you think a career is.

                                        Come on, there's got to be some reason your only job experience was part time at a concession stand years ago. Got caught stealing? Criminal record?

                                        I guess 11 years in hospitality accounting isn't really a job, right? At least, it pays the bills, and leaves a bit over 50% after taxes and bills for me to save.

                                        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 01 2021, @05:33AM (5 children)

                                          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 01 2021, @05:33AM (#1093510) Journal
                                          Ooh, I hit a sore spot. "Hospitality accounting" my arse. You're not an accountant. Not even a bookkeeper. We've been on to you for years. What is "hospitality accounting?" Helping a small place with their quick books?

                                          No wonder you don't have a clue.

                                          --
                                          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 01 2021, @12:20PM (4 children)

                                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 01 2021, @12:20PM (#1093541) Journal

                                            Ooh, I hit a sore spot. "Hospitality accounting" my arse. You're not an accountant. Not even a bookkeeper. We've been on to you for years. What is "hospitality accounting?" Helping a small place with their quick books?

                                            I notice you don't apologize for getting it wrong. Yes, you hit the Azuma sore spot where the person just says shit about other people, and doesn't care in the slightest if what they say is right or wrong. Basically, constructs their own fantasy world and then tries to make everyone play in it.

                                            Sorry, I'm not interested.

                                            As to your questions, in the (non-covid) summer (this being seasonal work), the "small place" is a resort with 300 hotel rooms, 280 cabins, and 440 campsites, plus several restaurants, retail shops, and a Marina - in the middle of a park that sees more than four million visitors a year. and "hospitality accounting" just means that I do a different sort of accounting than the people who figure out what account to charge the office party cake to or strategies for minimizing tax exposure. In particular, it's a combination of auditing all sales transactions in that location plus monitoring that employees are handling money correctly.

                                            No wonder you don't have a clue.

                                            Because? This is a pathetic argument from authority without an authority. Last I heard, you worked in the past as a coder and now, are retired and volunteer work at a local food bank. Doesn't sound like you have the life experiences necessary to judge people based on flimsy evidence, right? Maybe you could come back to continue this argument when you do get such experience? It should only take a few decades.

                                            • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 01 2021, @01:55PM (3 children)

                                              by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 01 2021, @01:55PM (#1093556) Journal

                                              You keep projecting.

                                              Get a real job for once on your life. Seriously, a camp ground? That's like somebody saying they work on a cruise ship. In other words, unemployed.

                                              It's funny. Once my vision is fixed, I'll be using my retirement pension to subsidize my software development. And I'll make money at it, because it's what I do. I should be able to do it through my 90s, in part because I'm not going to open source anything, so no nagging from freetards about features they want that I think go in the wrong direction, or competing with forks of my own crap.

                                              The extra money would be nice, as would being back in the swing of things.

                                              Or to quote Foghorn Leghorn - "where's your ambition, boy?"

                                              --
                                              SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                                              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 01 2021, @06:21PM (2 children)

                                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 01 2021, @06:21PM (#1093655) Journal

                                                You keep projecting.

                                                Get a real job for once on your life. Seriously, a camp ground? That's like somebody saying they work on a cruise ship. In other words, unemployed.

                                                Who would have thought that they would have campgrounds in the woods?

                                                Given that this is coming from the person whose present career is cat-sitter, the accusation doesn't have the sting it might otherwise have.

                                                I also find it interesting how we segued from talking about the futility of high taxation (using your own examples!) to my supposed lack of a career and insufficient ambition unbecoming of a SN hack. I guess I better drop a gill net and catch some massive red herring because the school is here.

                                                • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 01 2021, @06:42PM (1 child)

                                                  by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 01 2021, @06:42PM (#1093660) Journal

                                                  I'm retired. That's what people in their mid-60s do. I spend my weeks volunteering. You tried to give the impression you were an accountant or whatever, but your posts where you have no clue whatsoever about money say you're full of shit, like usual.

                                                  Nobody believes you. Absolutely nobody.

                                                  Then again, what can you expect from a hick living in Hicksville.

                                                  --
                                                  SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                                                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 01 2021, @10:00PM

                                                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 01 2021, @10:00PM (#1093723) Journal

                                                    I'm retired.

                                                    Welcome fellow deadbeat. Bring the XBox and I'll bring the Cheetos and skunk beer.

                                                    You tried to give the impression you were an accountant or whatever

                                                    Yes, I'm an accountant and yes, I have on occasion tried to give that impression as well. So what? Have I ever argued that you should agree with me because of my authority as an accountant?

                                                    but your posts where you have no clue whatsoever about money say you're full of shit, like usual.

                                                    I notice those alleged posts didn't happen in this thread.

                                                    So anyway, I've been thinking about why you're bringing this apparently completely unrelated thing up in a thread about increasing taxes and I got it figured out. Your problem is that Canada isn't taxing you enough - that is, you need your taxes increased just like Apple does. That's why you're a deadbeat retiree rather than a real job careerist. Here's hoping that Canada fixes that and makes bank at the same time!

                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 30 2020, @04:03AM (7 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 30 2020, @04:03AM (#1092752) Journal

                      Places where they were raising cattle in the past now need extraordinary measures to keep the Anika from overheating and dying.

                      Sure, they do. Needless to say, I think Occams razor cuts differently here.

                      And the government bailed out the banks because so many of the properties had a negative worth. One bank tried to just give 8,000 properties to the city. The city said okay, if you pay the costs of bulldozing the homes and disconnecting the utilities. So the bank still holds the properties, they're totally worthless (gutted for wiring, plumbing, fixtures, windows and doors, full of mould, squatters, roof fallen in, fire damage. Some of these places had been flipped sight unseen by one speculator after another, $500 ballooning to $155,000 and then defaulting.

                      First thing here is that this unnamed city (not cities) here probably has serious problems in the first place. After all, they too are letting that property rot.

                      Keep in mind that the bank can hold those properties at an inflated value, thereby reducing their costs of maintaining reserve (among other things, meaning they can lend out more money). A gutted building still has value to them.

                      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday December 31 2020, @06:17AM (6 children)

                        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday December 31 2020, @06:17AM (#1093134) Journal
                        Other places, the developers bulldozed new homes because they were suddenly too expensive to sell, and the taxes were to high. I first saw this while passing through the burbs of Toronto in the previous century, where developers bulldozed brand new warehouses. Better to hold the raw land for a couple of decades than to have to pay taxes on the building, then have to extensively modify it for a new tenant 20 years later and it's no longer considered a new building anyway.

                        There's plenty of videos out there of new buildings being demolished by the property owners. They get an immediate 100% tax write off on the building, reclaiming some of the taxes they paid on sales at the height of the boom. Gives them cash flow. And a vacant serviced lot.

                        --
                        SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 31 2020, @12:45PM (5 children)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 31 2020, @12:45PM (#1093198) Journal

                          Other places, the developers bulldozed new homes because they were suddenly too expensive to sell, and the taxes were to high.

                          Why would there be "too high" taxes on a building with negative value? Last I heard, taxes were more or less proportional to the value of the property.

                          I first saw this while passing through the burbs of Toronto in the previous century, where developers bulldozed brand new warehouses. Better to hold the raw land for a couple of decades than to have to pay taxes on the building, then have to extensively modify it for a new tenant 20 years later and it's no longer considered a new building anyway.

                          In other words, they destroyed good property because of bad tax law. Among other things, it's the broken window fallacy. And I find it remarkable that you think holding raw land for two decades is better.

                          • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday December 31 2020, @08:50PM (4 children)

                            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday December 31 2020, @08:50PM (#1093404) Journal
                            So rather than accept what really happened, which is easy to verify via hundreds of thousands of videos and public auctions that sold buildings for $500 and failed to attract bids for other buildings at that low price, you continue to stick your fingers in your ears and say "that doesn't make sense to me so it cannot be true." Typical kallow.

                            If you're a developer and you can't rent out or sell a warehouse, it's value decreases with time while it's carrying costs increase. After a while just the passing of time means it's no longer grade a, so it's less desirable than vacant land that can be custom built to a tenants needs.

                            It's why many commercial buildings are either bulldozed, imploded, or gutted after 50 years - they're worth less in their current state than the land on which they sit is worth empty.

                            It's like swimming pools. They used to add value to a home. Then they came to be seen as a negative feature with high maintenance and the need to add restrictive ugly fences that took away the aesthetic. People were deducting the cost of filling in the pool from their offers.

                            same with fireplaces. Can't use them even with catalytic chimneys, so deduct the cost of removing and repairs to the walls.

                            The benefits in terms of fewer winter smog days made the banning of fire places worth it. In most cases, even with heating inserts, they were still net losers of heat, and raised insurance rates. People don't miss them after a while.

                            Same as they don't miss the old diesel buses when the hybrids are quieter and cheaper to run, and the electrics even quieter and cheaper. Less pollution and air conditioned are just plain nice bonuses. Tax payers like that. Same with school buses.

                            --
                            SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 31 2020, @10:12PM (3 children)

                              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 31 2020, @10:12PM (#1093417) Journal

                              So rather than accept what really happened, which is easy to verify via hundreds of thousands of videos and public auctions that sold buildings for $500 and failed to attract bids for other buildings at that low price, you continue to stick your fingers in your ears and say "that doesn't make sense to me so it cannot be true."

                              Because you wrote "new homes" and "brand new warehouses". That's not a sign of a healthy economy when valuable real estate gets destroyed merely to lower property taxes.

                              It's why many commercial buildings are either bulldozed, imploded, or gutted after 50 years - they're worth less in their current state than the land on which they sit is worth empty.

                              Sorry, that's not it. You started this thread talking about real estate from the last real estate bubble. Most that is less than 20 years old. I have no problems with old structures being razed to make way for a more valuable use of the property. That's human history ever since we started building stuff thousands of years ago. What's different here is destroying new property merely because of taxes. It's particularly ridiculous since you started this thread advocating for high taxes. So we see here that one of the problems of your higher taxation is that it encourages more destruction of good real estate. That's dumb.

                              I also am less than inspired by your examples. I assure you that in warm climates those pools are still seen as advantages. And making fireplaces and diesel buses costly via regulation is just more of the same bad ideas you've been having.

                              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday December 31 2020, @11:40PM (2 children)

                                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday December 31 2020, @11:40PM (#1093430) Journal
                                Communities that calculate the excess deaths of pollution caused by Diesel engines, as well as increased health care costs, don't want Diesel engines any more. Once you factor in the costs of externalities, electric is cheaper.'

                                After all, dead people don't contribute to the economy, or the tax base.

                                'kind of like the story of your life. And you're never going to have any sort of professional career. Simply not qualified by either temperament or ability.

                                --
                                SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 01 2021, @02:17AM (1 child)

                                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 01 2021, @02:17AM (#1093466) Journal

                                  Communities that calculate the excess deaths of pollution caused by Diesel engines, as well as increased health care costs, don't want Diesel engines any more.

                                  Communities are notorious for being unable to make such calculations.

                                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 01 2021, @03:57AM

                                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 01 2021, @03:57AM (#1093490) Journal
                                    Except that because of the climate crisis, communities are getting better at including externalities in total costs. It's why diesels are being banned. Particulates and exhaust raise death rates, especially among people living within one block of main roads. Ditto hospitalizations and days lost.

                                    We banned fireplaces years ago. Winter air is noticeably cleaner.

                                    The hybrid buses are quieter, and use less fuel despite being air conditioned.

                                    Which is why there's almost a billion being spent on an underground garage for the new electric fleet, and more $$$ for another 800 all-electric buses. And 5 billion or more for an electric regional transit system to connect to the existing electric subway system.

                                    So maybe communities in the USA are still shitty at defying lobbyists, but that's your problem. Not mine. We've got tons of clean green electricity, might as well use it.

                                    --
                                    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
            • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday December 31 2020, @01:09AM

              by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 31 2020, @01:09AM (#1093069) Homepage Journal

              Unix was already around in the 70's.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @12:06PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @12:06PM (#1092819)

            You've been busy spewing your Randian crap here the last day or so.

            Are you this active because you're concerned you won't be around much longer, once arrested for felony assault [koat.com]?

            Enquiring minds want to forget you.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 31 2020, @12:48PM (2 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 31 2020, @12:48PM (#1093200) Journal

              You've been busy spewing your Randian crap here the last day or so.

              Thinking is better than whining that I went off message.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 31 2020, @02:32PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 31 2020, @02:32PM (#1093223)

                Thinking is better than whining that I went off message.

                Who said you were "off message?" It's pretty much the same sociopathic randian bullshit we've come to expect from you Khallow.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 31 2020, @10:00PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 31 2020, @10:00PM (#1093414) Journal
                  You just did it again. I think it's particularly dumb to whine about "randian" anything in a thread where someone starts by just claiming that more taxes will magically make everything better. This is precisely the sort of poor and venal thinking that Ayn Rand opposed. Again, I find it remarkable that people will downplay corporations, effectiveness, competence, etc. But the moment that they need those businesses to pay taxes for their bullshit? Suddenly, no check is too big to cash and high taxation has all the nutrients a growing economy needs.

                  What I find particularly telling is that there is no interest in how well the money is spent. That indicates to me a huge lack of awareness of both how much is currently spent to little effect and the high likelihood that higher spending will feed the parasites rather than create societal benefits.
          • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday December 31 2020, @09:18PM

            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday December 31 2020, @09:18PM (#1093408) Journal

            Other countries with less US-type economic and social policies are doing better, while countries that went all in copying the USA model (UK for the last decade) are fucked. Both economically and covid-wise.'

            You need to stop confusing the stock market and the real market

            And reality with your fantasies.

            No wonder China will beat you in terms of the largest economy in 5 years.

            And you have a president pulling shit that, if it were anywhere else, you'd be screaming "coup."

            You can't even run an election properly because you've got 70 million whackos, many too stupid to wear a mask during a pandemic. That's a special kind of dumb. The US and the UK - two countries that show themselves in the foot repeatedly the last 4 years. And will continue to do so.

            --
            SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
    • (Score: 2) by bussdriver on Monday December 28 2020, @11:18PM

      by bussdriver (6876) on Monday December 28 2020, @11:18PM (#1092236)

      It is an omnibus bill NOT a relief bill; but relief is naturally included.

      Many things that would end up in other bills including some which would never pass until they could be stuck into big budget or military bills etc. It's also not had the full process because it's a rush job -- not all of it; the relief part has been going on for months. This is a merger of other bills and amendments those bills would have. It has pork; but everything does and it's 5k of pages so it naturally will have more pork since it is so huge... and because it's a compounded disaster if they don't.

      Some truly evil politicians needed to be bought off to vote for this and playing politics to make them stand out while citizens literally DIE is just not worth it-- especially when about half the country is so stupid they'll die praising the people who are indirectly kill them!

      Some of these "pork" bits will never end up happening as they are in the bill.

      The felony for streaming copyright, we can repeal later, but then if we can't it would have happened eventually anyway.

      Some bits I read about were vague committee $ allocations being twisted and lied about which is not new other than how far the lies were going with it. It's not usual for some pork to get some spending oversight and in the end maybe never get spent (or to be twisted into unforeseen pork.)

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Monday December 28 2020, @11:50PM (4 children)

      by hemocyanin (186) on Monday December 28 2020, @11:50PM (#1092248) Journal

      Fair point. But do not forget that it sucks because of Democrat pork ALSO -- like that $10m to Pakistan for gender programs. https://nypost.com/2020/12/22/covid-19-bill-contains-billions-of-dollars-in-foreign-aid/ [nypost.com]

      It is possible that more money will be exported from America than will be used to help Americans.

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by FatPhil on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:33AM

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:33AM (#1092400) Homepage
        That's a fairly porky list, but seems to be missing some of the pork listed here: https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/531294-congresss-pork-filled-covid-relief-bill
        All in all, it's probably 99.9% pork. Americans should be hanging their head in shame at how terrible their political process is, how almost all of their representatives are absolutely not representing the voters who voted for them, and are lying about what they're actually doing. Why have they forgotten what the 2nd amendment was for? The other boxes didn't work, you now have the right to resort to the ammo one. If you disinsentivise corruption amongst politicians enough, through public floggings, say, it will eventually become a recessive trait. In particular if partners and offspring are included in the floggings - it will even drop out of the genepool that way.
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @10:20PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @10:20PM (#1092652)

        Hello old fart, I know the whole acknowledgement of reality with the scary pre-existing gender issues really frightens you, but you really chose the worst example to pick on.

        A) $10m is peanuts compared to the rest of the grift
        B) Pakistan is probably one of the countries that most needs support coming to grips with the reality of human gender issues
        C) Letting your old person prejudices out because you think they are so obviously correct only alienates yourself

        Hint, political correctness may have gone overboard with some of the *ugh* "cancel culture" stuff with relatively innocent people getting unfairly punished however the underlying issues are very real. The best part is how you old white assholes are now so ANGRY about being called racists when you don't think that you are. Don't let the IRONY hit you in the ass too hard, you might find out you like it.

        You might have more luck complaining about the ACTUAL piggies. Sending money to Pakistan is by definition NOT pork.

        • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Tuesday December 29 2020, @11:10PM

          by hemocyanin (186) on Tuesday December 29 2020, @11:10PM (#1092666) Journal

          It used to bother me when types like you called me racist having been non-racist all my life, but I've come to understand that what you mean when you say "you're a racist" is "you're such a meanie to not agree with me, boo on you" and at that point, it stopped working. When you redefine words to mean ridiculous things and hope to get the grit and vigor of the original word, well, it works for a time until people figure out you're just a bullshitter. So that's where I'm at. You can expect to see more and more people become unfazed by your word games over time, at which point you'll basically have nowhere to go. The words racist and nazi used to be powerfully negative terms but once you've burned those down, what's left? I don't have any ideas for you, but best of luck with that.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:41AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:41AM (#1092774)

        Fair point. But do not forget that it sucks because of Democrat pork ALSO -- like that $10m to Pakistan for gender programs. https://nypost.com/2020/12/22/covid-19-bill-contains-billions-of-dollars-in-foreign-aid/ [nypost.com] [nypost.com]

        So I guess you're not aware that those particular appropriations were *specifically requested by the Trump Administration* [whitehouse.gov], and not by some amorphous Democrats?

        You need to pay attention, because you're all wet hemo.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 28 2020, @07:46PM (53 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 28 2020, @07:46PM (#1092150) Homepage Journal

    There was more than enough stupid to go around with this bill. But, Trump outdid himself with this one. First, it was too much, then it was too little, then he would veto it, then he signed it. The art of the deal? Showmanship? WTF? Trump himself didn't seem to know what he wanted, or how to get it. Unless, he and Pelosi already agreed to this, but both of them were playing to their audiences.

    I'm left wondering if Trump is just as senile as Biden. And, Pelosi, for that matter.

    --
    "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday December 28 2020, @08:06PM (1 child)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday December 28 2020, @08:06PM (#1092157) Journal

      Victory is a sure thing. The odds of losing are roughly 13 out of ~460, less than a 3% chance. Why would they act any different? Their supporters put them where they are.

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Monday December 28 2020, @08:23PM

        by TheGratefulNet (659) on Monday December 28 2020, @08:23PM (#1092171)

        I hear the sound of abundance of pain,
        I hear the sound of VICTORY.

        (gags a bit, even typing that out)

        --
        "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:16PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:16PM (#1092165)

      Senility. Everything he complained about was either not true, or it was stuff that he asked for in his budget request.

      The peons should feel very lucky that there is a high stakes runoff election going on right now, otherwise Moscow Mitch wouldn't have let ANY bill out. He began poisoning the economic recovery well for Biden right after it looked like Trump wouldn't win. That's why the House passed their bill months ago and the Senate did jack until the GA senators were getting beat up on the issue.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:56PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @10:56PM (#1092228)

        Yes, but then they were willing to do a deal and Pelosi decided that nothing was better than something and now we get even smaller scraps.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @05:40AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @05:40AM (#1092371)

          Because it was once again a pathetic excuse of relief for the average American while sending us further in debt with giveaways to corporations and churches that pocket the money and continue kicking their employees. Always the same bullshit with you rightwingers, hypocrisy and lies.

          #lovin'it

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Monday December 28 2020, @08:23PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday December 28 2020, @08:23PM (#1092172) Journal

      Pelosi is doing her job and trying to pass the bill you claim to want. [fortune.com]

      But I'm sure you'll blame Democrats when the Republicans block it.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:31PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:31PM (#1092173)

      Tribal jackass, at least the reality of what Trump is seems to be sinking into that TDS skull of yours.

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 28 2020, @08:38PM (3 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 28 2020, @08:38PM (#1092176) Homepage Journal

        Heh - and you're ready to admit that Pelosi and Establishment Joe are worse poison than Trump?

        Oh yeah - just read an interesting article on Bloomberg. The man spent over 200 million on this election. And, it seems he gained the party nothing. Dems lost seats almost everywhere, at the federal, state, and local levels. I'm anxiously awaiting the outcome of the senate runoffs in Georgia. Rs need one of those seats to cockblock Establishment Joe for the next two years.

        --
        "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:51PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:51PM (#1092183)

          Simple solution is one R, moves to independent (middle of aisle), then Mitch is cooked. Make it so you have permentant support.

          Say a nice R, is an area that wants more money for rockets (economy). Thats all it would take.

          Make his independent stance a new "party" called "America People Party". Watch the house crumple.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @09:22PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @09:22PM (#1092199)

            Simpler solution is to have them all covid test their coke like this guy: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LBmGvJAyhfs&feature=youtu.be [youtube.com]

            Then the ones who test positive (have acidic mucus apparently since it is always acidic fruits, soda, and the like testing positive) will recuse themselves from the vote.

        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:45AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:45AM (#1092280)

          I don't need to do anything, my opinion on any of that is irrelevant because the point was that you couldn't bring yourself to criticize Trump without the emotional security blanket of blaming your sworn enemies.

          Keep that spine gelatinous little buddy! Tough personas are overrated.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by legont on Monday December 28 2020, @08:39PM (1 child)

      by legont (4179) on Monday December 28 2020, @08:39PM (#1092177)

      Our brave elected representatives were given 6 hours to study and make expert opinion on those 5000 pages; then vote for it or else. Democracy at it's best all right.

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @03:59PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @03:59PM (#1092493)

        Pelosi and Munchkin have been working a long time on the deal, and the House bill has been sitting around for months, so it wasn't as bad as you imply. Anybody in Congress could have become familiar with most of what was in there if they had the desire, but I'm not confident that a lot of them bothered.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:53PM (19 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @08:53PM (#1092184)

      Trump has done so much good for the US and the world, world peace, in spite of what the left media says. After all Trump as been through with vicious lefty media attacks, the pandemic itself, rioting, significant doubts about election integrity, courts not willing to hear cases nor order investigations? I'd have resigned already, except for not wanting to dump it all on Pence.
       

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 28 2020, @09:21PM (18 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 28 2020, @09:21PM (#1092198) Homepage Journal

        Yeah, Trump has accomplished things that no R and no D ever had the balls to even try. He got Lil Kim from North Korea to sit down and talk, at least half seriously.

        I've spoken up for Trump when all the Squat Squads have tried to piss on him.

        But, that has little to do with this time. WTF was he trying to accomplish? Senile is a plausible explanation. He has recovered from COVID, maybe it affected his mind, and pushed him 'round the bend.

        --
        "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @09:27PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @09:27PM (#1092203)

          "[Trump] has recovered from COVID, maybe it affected his mind, and pushed him 'round the bend."

          He has been saying "turning the corner" for months, so...

          • (Score: 2) by SpockLogic on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:20AM

            by SpockLogic (2762) on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:20AM (#1092267)

            "[Trump] has recovered from COVID, maybe it affected his mind, and pushed him 'round the bend."

            He has been saying "turning the corner" for months, so...
            Reply to This

            If you keep turning the corner then you are going round in circles.

            --
            Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Monday December 28 2020, @11:02PM (9 children)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday December 28 2020, @11:02PM (#1092230) Journal

          1: I remember quite clearly the conservative freakout when Obama said he merely MIGHT talk to North Korea.
          2: Someone who is actually good at the Art of the Deal, like Obama, would have gotten something in return for the legitimacy you gain when you have a photo of you hanging out with a US President as a despot.
          3: I'm sure you would have been totally fine with a picture of Obama saluting a North Korean general had be been dumb enough to oblige.
          3: And after all that.....North Korea INCREASES their nuclear program. [nytimes.com]

          • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 28 2020, @11:26PM (8 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 28 2020, @11:26PM (#1092239) Homepage Journal

            Tell me about Obama, kneeling and kissing up to everyone around the world. A president doesn't bow, he shakes hands as an equal, thereby bestowing a favor upon whoever he is shaking hands with.

            --
            "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:15AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:15AM (#1092413)

              Now we see that your time in the Navy didn't lead to any cultural exposure, did you just sit on base except for the nights you got hammered and tried to nail some poor local who hoped to get a rich American hubby?

            • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday December 29 2020, @03:39PM (6 children)

              by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday December 29 2020, @03:39PM (#1092489) Journal

              You're right, a truly manly President CURTSIES!

              Donald Trump appears to 'curtsey' to Saudi king after mocking Barack Obama for bowing [independent.co.uk]

              • (Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 29 2020, @04:08PM (5 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 29 2020, @04:08PM (#1092496) Homepage Journal

                So, squatting looks like a curtsey to the TDS crowd, got it. It would be more accurate to call it a bow, but the effeminate left felt the need to make Trump one of them by trying to make him look effeminate. Whatever.

                --
                "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @06:48PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @06:48PM (#1092557)

                  "the effeminate left"

                  Heh, you're taking Trump's loss awful hard huh? I'd offer you sympathy if you weren't a racist baby nazi.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:10AM (3 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:10AM (#1092765)

                  You literally said in this thread "A president doesn't bow." Rather than the witty comeback you think this is by correcting "curtsy" to "bow," it just makes you look more of an idiot by admitting president's do bow, literally in this case.

                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:27AM (2 children)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 30 2020, @05:27AM (#1092769) Homepage Journal

                    No, you're the idiot. Trump was receiving an award from a midget. He had to squat down for the short man to drape the necklace thing around his neck. FFS, you're really digging hard to prove that the Trump is as ignorant of protocols as Obama.

                    The president doesn't bow or curtsey to any foreign power. Ever. In fact, no member of the US armed forces ever bows to anyone, especially not in uniform. It isn't done.

                    --
                    "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @07:22AM (1 child)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 30 2020, @07:22AM (#1092793)

                      "It would be more accurate to call it a bow." or "The president doesn't bow." One or the other.

                      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 30 2020, @09:31AM

                        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 30 2020, @09:31AM (#1092800) Homepage Journal

                        Have you ever had a class in reading comprehension?

                        1. Curtsey is totally inaccurate.
                        2. Bow would be more accurate
                        3. but neither 1 or 2 is accurate.
                        4. Trump squatted to allow a short guy put an award around his neck.

                        Please, visit your community college and take some remedial reading classes.

                        --
                        "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @11:19PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @11:19PM (#1092237)

          > He got Lil Kim from North Korea to sit down and talk, at least half seriously.

          Dipshit - that was his leverage. Here take my leverage - now can you stop make nukes? No? Oh *sulks*

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:37AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:37AM (#1092276)

          Perhaps he was told he needed to sign, otherwise the election in Georgia would be in danger? Definitely not handled with great skill though.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @02:02AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @02:02AM (#1092313)

            Spoke too soon: Newsmax is reporting that the House has agreed to up the individual payments to $2k. If the House agrees, I think it should pass the Republican Senate.

        • (Score: 2) by canopic jug on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:15AM

          by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:15AM (#1092397) Journal

          [...] He got Lil Kim from North Korea to sit down and talk, at least half seriously.

          And all the while that talking went on the crazy fat kid played the stupid, fat, orange man like a violin. He advanced his illegal nuclear weapons program rapidly during that time. All the while he pretended to shut down the completed phases as a concession or tribute to the stupid, fat, orange man. Remember the early rounds of missile tests? Once that stage of missile testing was complete, he claimed to shut it down as a concession or tribute to the stupid, fat, orange man. Almost the same day, the plutonium-producing facilities started producing so much steam it could be seen in satellite images available to the public. etc. Same for Iran, though the interaction was more antagonistic on the surface. Both countries aim to use their newly acquired capabilities in offense as soon as they have enough of a stockpile for multiple strikes against key targets.

          [...] Senile is a plausible explanation.

          However,I think you're correct in that guess. Senility does explain a lot of the recent years' antics and utterances from the stupid, fat, orange man. SARS-CoV-2 is only like to make that worse. He has already had ministrokes, the virus can set him up for a more serious one (or two) if it works in old people like it does in younger ones.

          --
          Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:16AM (1 child)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:16AM (#1092414) Homepage
          Rodman managed that in 2013, IIRC, and he was just a celeb, not anyone with any political cops. Hmmm, maybe Trump was just a celeb with no political chops too...

          Then again James Kelly went to NK in 2002, and Christopher Hill in 2007 too, it's not impossible to talk to North Korean dictators.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @02:54PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @02:54PM (#1092469)

            Also Rex Tillerson could have accomplished something good if he wasn't being sabotaged from his own government.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @11:16PM (19 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 28 2020, @11:16PM (#1092234)

      Congrats for spotting the con man - 4 years too late, asshat.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 28 2020, @11:29PM (18 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 28 2020, @11:29PM (#1092240) Homepage Journal

        Shame on you for not spotting the conman who has been in Washington conning people for over 50 years.

        --
        "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:49AM (17 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @12:49AM (#1092284)

          For someone who couldn't shut up about TDS every time Trump was criticized for his criminality you are sure getting a head start on doing the exact same thing you complained about. Don't worry, no libs are excited about Biden so you won't get much push back except for this kind of mockery. If you actually find something valid to complain about we'll even join you!

          • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 29 2020, @02:02AM (16 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 29 2020, @02:02AM (#1092312) Homepage Journal

            Check out my sig, since you seem to have missed it. I intend to treat the imposter-elect the same as the other side has treated the current imposter.

            --
            "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @02:37AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @02:37AM (#1092321)

              We look forward to your infinite generosity when considering Obama, sorry, Biden's groveling bipartisan olive branch waving.

            • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @02:38AM (12 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @02:38AM (#1092322)

              Didn't you get the memo? White supremacy has been defeated now the left have elected the guy who eulogized KKK Grand Wizard Robert Byrd. [newsweek.com] Even the ironically named Antifa cancelled the revolution to start a soccer league with... 88 players [adl.org] as they informed us in 14 words...

              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @05:00AM (4 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @05:00AM (#1092360)

                Wow. "I know you are but what am I?"

                Rightwing nutters know no shame. Don't worry, we don't like Biden either but he and Kamal Harris are still 1,000,000X better than Trump and his active white supremacist agenda promoting rightwing authoritarianism world wide.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @07:37AM (3 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @07:37AM (#1092389)

                  There is something that feels good about being ruled by people "like" oneself. (What constitutes "like?") I am very much looking forward to KDH being the first president like me. I already voted for HRC on that basis, and KDH may even be less evil.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:52AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:52AM (#1092408)

                    Incels truly be loving their misogyny.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @03:29PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @03:29PM (#1092483)

                    As every racist and sexist says...

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 01 2021, @02:23AM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 01 2021, @02:23AM (#1093467) Journal

                    There is something that feels good about being ruled by people "like" oneself.

                    That's a typical authoritarian impulse. It's more challenging to be ruled by yourself rather than merely people who pretend to be like you.

              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 29 2020, @01:51PM (6 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 29 2020, @01:51PM (#1092454) Homepage Journal
                --
                "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @06:57PM (5 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @06:57PM (#1092561)

                  Now that same inconsolable paranoiac comes at you with left politics, and isn’t content with ruining the odd holiday dinner, blind date, or shared cab. He or she does this infuriating interrogating at the office, in school, and in government agencies, in places where you can’t fake a headache and quietly leave the table.

                  This is all taking place at a time when the only organized opposition to such thinking also supports federal troops rounding up protesters for open-ended detention, going maskless to own the libs, and other equivalent madnesses. If you’re not a Trump fan and can’t reason with the other thing either, what’s left?

                  It is like you don't even read what you link to, you just see the headline and think it is a gotcha. I have yet to see a single example of this behavior in real life though pretty much every liberal I know agrees that PC culture goes too far. See, that is the difference between conservatives and liberals. Generally liberals are able to take criticism and adjust their world views, conservatives double down on their bad behavior and blame their victims.

                  Double bonus for you sourcing an article that is basically "liberals are mean to us" as your crystalline structure melts under the harsh light of reality. Get fucked you old hate filled wind bag!

                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 29 2020, @07:09PM (1 child)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 29 2020, @07:09PM (#1092568) Homepage Journal

                    Liberals can take criticism - right. Now, about that critical race theory bullshit? How long until Creepy Joe tells everyone that it's the law of the land?

                    --
                    "no more than 8 bullets in a round" - Joe Biden
                    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:21PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @08:21PM (#1092603)

                      Not our fault you're an idiot, be angry at illusions I guess, just don't blow up shit or shoot people like your idiot bros mmkay?

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:47PM (2 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:47PM (#1092636)

                    pretty much every liberal I know agrees that PC culture goes too far.

                    Whatcha' talkin' 'bout Willis? [reason.com]

                    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @10:06PM (1 child)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @10:06PM (#1092649)

                      hahahahahaha

                      headline click bait caught another acanthonus armatus

                      i would try and educate you but it is obvious it would be wasted effort

                      best of luck avoiding dem sharks

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 30 2020, @02:38AM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 30 2020, @02:38AM (#1092727) Journal

                        headline click bait caught another acanthonus armatus

                        Sounds like that's what the school district will be producing.

                        The San Diego Unified School District, for instance, moved this fall to abolish its traditional grading system. Students will still receive letter grades, but they won't reflect average scores on papers, quizzes, and tests. Under the new system, pupils will not be penalized for failing to complete assignments or even show up for class, and teachers will give them extra opportunities to demonstrate their "mastery" of subjects. What constitutes mastery is not quite clear, but grades shall not be influenced by behavior or "nonacademic measures" such as quantity of work completed, according to guidance from the district.*

                        And what news source doesn't have catchy headlines?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:33PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 29 2020, @09:33PM (#1092630)

              I intend to treat the imposter-elect the same as the other side has treated the current imposter.

              You bellyache a lot when that's done to you.

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Pslytely Psycho on Wednesday December 30 2020, @04:34AM

                by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Wednesday December 30 2020, @04:34AM (#1092756)

                Typical. You dished it out for eight years under Obama and cry like a little whipped dog when you get half that.

                So, in the words of the right...."Fuck your feelings."

                --
                Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(1) 2