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A suspected Islamic terrorist opened fire at a gay nightclub in Florida, killing 50 people and wounding another 53 before he was killed by police. While authorities continue to investigate to determine whether this man had ties to ISIS, the terror organization has not been quiet in praising the attack. This comes three days after ISIS announced they would attack somewhere in Florida. Today's attack marks the largest act of terrorism on US soil since 9/11.
takyon: The gunman reportedly called 911 emergency services to pledge allegiance to ISIS. The President will hold a briefing momentarily. Compare this article to the original submission.
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Islamic Terrorist Opens Fire on Florida Nightclub; 50 Killed, 53 Wounded
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Every cloud engenders not a storm.
-- William Shakespeare, "Henry VI"
(Score: 4, Informative) by sjames on Sunday June 12 2016, @09:11PM
He called himself a Christian and he blew up people he said were doing wrong. The Orlando guy called himself a Muslim and shot up people he said were doing wrong.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday June 12 2016, @09:21PM
Citation needed. As far as I ever heard his relevant beliefs were strictly political. They were even ones I agree with, though I tend to disagree strongly on method of remedy.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by sjames on Sunday June 12 2016, @10:57PM
Actually, he seemed to vacillate on that subject over time, so perhaps he is a poor example of a Christian terrorist (though he did take last rites before his execution).
But that's kind of the point. We know Mateen identified as Muslim, but we have no evidence that he was devout, much less fundamentalist. According to reports, Mateen seemed more motivated by homophobia than Islam.
Eric Rudolph would be a good example of a Christian terrorist.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 13 2016, @01:40AM
Ahh, see there's the difference. McVeigh did what he did for political ideology; no religion involved beyond him possibly having beliefs at all. Islamic terrorists do it because their religion demands it of them.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Monday June 13 2016, @03:25AM
You're begging the question. We don't know that the guy in Orlando IS an Islamic terrorist. If his being vaguely Muslim and killing a bunch of people makes him an Islamic terrorist, then McVeigh is indeed a Christian terrorist.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 13 2016, @09:41AM
No, I'm going on reports of a man with an islamic name shouting "allahu akbar" and shooting a hundred people or so. If you're shouting about your god while you shoot people, it's safe for someone to assume you're religiously motivated.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by sjames on Monday June 13 2016, @04:01PM
The reports I've seen said the music was so loud, nobody even heard the guns, much less anything shouted or not.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 13 2016, @07:25PM
Possibly across the room. Not likely within easy range to put two in his chest and one in his head. .22s aside, guns are damned loud.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Monday June 13 2016, @08:32PM
That was the report anyway. No reports of him yelling anything, so no evidence there for your assumption.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 14 2016, @02:07AM
It was mentioned further up in the comments that he was yelling it. I'm not going to fact check for a hypothetical situation though; it's irrelevant.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday June 14 2016, @02:55AM
So I'll assume that was all hypothetical along with the claim that this had anything to do with Islam.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 14 2016, @03:14AM
The hypothetical bit was "if everyone were armed". Try and keep up.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday June 14 2016, @04:12AM
Sorry, you're in the wrong thread. Hit parent a few times and get up to speed.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13 2016, @04:35AM
> Islamic terrorists do it because their religion demands it of them.
Nope. Their religious interpretation provides an excuse for them to act on their own prejudices.
Islam no more demands it of them than Christianity demands it of christians ala leviticus 20:13 [biblehub.com]
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.
They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 13 2016, @09:32AM
Islam, as preached in many mosques, does in fact demand it and is precisely why this happens. Christianity, barring a few disavowed nutjobs, preaches only peace from the pulpit. Equating the two makes you look like a fool.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13 2016, @11:28AM
> Islam, as preached in many mosques, does in fact demand it
In your wet dreams.
Compared to the daily evangelical fixation on LGBQT, the topic barely comes up in most mosques.
I doubt you've ever even been in a mosque.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 13 2016, @11:34AM
Oh? How many churches preach violence against the LGBTOMGWTFBBQ crowd? None. Not even Westboro and they're pretty much the worst of the lot.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday June 14 2016, @12:14AM
While traveling through the midwest, I did hear a radio preacher calling for the extermination of homosexuals.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 14 2016, @01:59AM
Should have got his name. That's illegal in this nation. Unlike, say, calling for the extermination of Jews or Americans in the middle-east.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 13 2016, @04:18AM
But that's kind of the point. We know Mateen identified as Muslim, but we have no evidence that he was devout, much less fundamentalist. According to reports, Mateen seemed more motivated by homophobia than Islam.
Eric Rudolph would be a good example of a Christian terrorist.
No, I don't grant that. I could see someone committing a violent act and faking a religious belief either as false flag or to throw authorities off their trail. So I grant that. But this guy went beyond just faking phone calls with a visit to the Middle East and some degree of contact with ISIS.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Monday June 13 2016, @04:39AM
Can you point to a source about the visit? I haven't seen that. I do see in updated information that he was once investigated by the FBI with no action taken for comments he was supposed to have made at work, then again for having had contact with a U.S. citizen who later became a suicide bomber but he was determined not to be a threat. That suggests to me that the 911 call might have held an element of sarcasm towards the FBI.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13 2016, @05:31AM
Seems to have gone on the hajj [washingtonpost.com] which is not particularly note-worthy since even half-assed muslims do it (kind of like cafeteria catholics) and its in saudi which is the land of fundamentalism but also where they are scared shitless of isis (was isis even a thing in 2012?)
> having had contact with a U.S. citizen who later became a suicide bomber
for al qaeda [theguardian.com] too, not even isis
reports from his ex-wife (whom he beat) are that he was just an asshole [cbslocal.com] and not particularly religious
co-worker confirms his long-standing asshole nature too [floridatoday.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 12 2016, @11:08PM
I got your fucking citation right here. [wikipedia.org] As you already guessed, sjames is talking out of his ass, at least as far as Timothy McVeigh is concerned. On the provided wiki reference scroll down to the section labelled "Religious beliefs". Among other things it says McVeigh professed belief in "a God", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs." And he stated that he did not believe in a hell and that science is his religion. In June 2001, a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News identifying himself as agnostic. I would think that pretty well demolishes any notion that McVeigh was motivated by religion.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13 2016, @12:10AM
"However, he took the Last Rites, administered by a priest, just before his execution," it says right after the bit about the letter saying he was agnostic. Odd that you omit that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13 2016, @12:30AM
It's Pascal's Fucking Wager at that point.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13 2016, @04:26AM
Pascal's Wager is so christian-centric that even mentioning it proves the point.
It only works if the choice is between no god and the catholic god.
Add in all the other versions of god and it becomes a game of roulette.
(Score: 2) by DECbot on Monday June 13 2016, @11:18PM
If you had to choose between throwing your money in a trash can and throwing your money on a roulette table... no matter how you played your money on the roulette table you'd have better odds of a return than putting your money in the trash can.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base