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posted by martyb on Thursday September 14 2017, @11:45PM   Printer-friendly

The BBC is reporting that North Korea has fired another missile:

North Korea has fired a missile eastwards from its capital, Pyongyang, towards Japan, media reports say.

Japan said that the missile likely passed over its territory and has warned residents to take shelter, local media report.

South Korea and the US are analysing the details of the launch, the South's military said.

Al Jazeera reports:

The projectile was launched at 6:57am (21:57GMT Thursday) and flew over the northern Japanese island of Hokkaido before falling into the Pacific Ocean - 2,000km east of Cape Erimo, said Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga.

"Japan protests the latest launch in the strongest terms and will take appropriate and timely action at the United Nations and elsewhere, staying in close contact with the United States and South Korea," Suga told reporters.

South Korea's defence ministry said the missile travelled about 3,700km and reached a maximum altitude of 770km - both higher and further than previous tests.

Just more saber rattling? Another step in escalation? What's next?


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by NewNic on Friday September 15 2017, @12:22AM (16 children)

    by NewNic (6420) on Friday September 15 2017, @12:22AM (#568169) Journal

    Sucks, but I've been saying for 20-30 years the Norks don't respond to diplomacy.

    Perhaps the West hasn't been very good at diplomacy with NK for 30 years? Probably something to with entering into a war, that is still technically still on (but never really authorized by Congress).

    Kim -xx-yy (whichever generation) wants one thing: to remain as leader of NK. The USA has advocated for regime change in NK. The USA has shown that by working with the USA, all a country gets is shafted (Iraq).

    The various Kims are quite rational. Perhaps more so than Donald. We just don't approach them in any manner conducive to productive dialogue.

    Then, there is China. China wants a buffer between itself and a USA-facing country. That buffer is NK.

    Really, if we had just let NK get along (ignoring the human rights issues), the West would probably be better positioned with respect to NK now.

    --
    lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Snotnose on Friday September 15 2017, @01:07AM (15 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Friday September 15 2017, @01:07AM (#568194)

    The various Kims are quite rational.

    How exactly is that? They know we don't want to invade them. They know that we know they can destroy Seoul before we can take them out. They know we don't want that. They keep provoking us to invade them. Now they have nukes, and missiles that can, at the very least, hit Japan.

    'splain to me how 30 years of diplomacy has done us a bit of good.

    --
    Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Whoever on Friday September 15 2017, @01:59AM (7 children)

      by Whoever (4524) on Friday September 15 2017, @01:59AM (#568216) Journal

      Would we invade now that they have nukes? It's much less likely. Win for NK.

      Do they really know that we don't want to invade them? Is the war over? Does the US run military exercises near to them? Perhaps the USA has sent mixed messages for 30 years.

      • (Score: 2) by sjames on Friday September 15 2017, @05:04AM (5 children)

        by sjames (2882) on Friday September 15 2017, @05:04AM (#568292) Journal

        Invasion hasn't been on the table for a long time. When they kept to themselves, they weren't really even on the radar. The one and only reason anyone is talking about them or gives a rats ass about them now is the saber rattling.

        Invasion still isn't the preferred option. A single bullet coming out of nowhere looks pretty good though. A lot of countries that might have officially deplored such an action last year now realize they are in range for a nuke...

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 15 2017, @09:31AM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 15 2017, @09:31AM (#568351)

          Invasion hasn't been on the table for a long time.

          It wasn't for Iraq either. Until we got a chimpanzee in charge with a grudge. I don't think we can trust the current orangutan anymore than the chimp.

          And now I'm going to get in trouble with animal rights groups for that comparison.

          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday September 15 2017, @01:59PM (3 children)

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday September 15 2017, @01:59PM (#568430) Journal

            Saddam wasn't firing ICBMs over our allies. He wasn't testing nuclear weapons. He was a monster, but he wasn't actually threatening anyone, especially after we kicked his ass out of Kuwait in the 90's.

            Kim is firing ICBMs over our allies and testing nuclear weapons. He has made specific threats against our allies and us. It has been verified he has the capability to follow through. Do we wait until he goes on a bender and in a fit of pique launches an ICBM armed with a hydrogen bomb at Tokyo? At Seoul? At Guam?

            I still say it's on the Chinese to put down the rabid dog on their doorstep. They can install a different China-friendly puppet who doesn't want to have nuclear weapons or threatens to drag China into a devastating war with all of China's best customers. I don't think anybody but Kim Jong-un would have a problem with that scenario. It would probably wind up winning China a lot of points on the international stage. We all might feel sad about the plight of the North Korean people in passing, but if they like living in an open-air prison that's their right.

            But I say the clock has run out for China to do what they ought to do. If they won't do the right thing for them and for everybody, then the rest of us must.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
            • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 15 2017, @08:09PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 15 2017, @08:09PM (#568670)

              Saddam wasn't firing ICBMs over our allies. He wasn't testing nuclear weapons. He was a monster, but he wasn't actually threatening anyone,

              AND look what the USA did to him. The USA lied about WMD and killed him. Similar for Gaddafi in Libya. And take a good look at those countries now, are their people better off? I could list more countries like Iran and Afghanistan.

              The USA was and is trying to do similar stuff to Assad in Syria. And for what? I can see the gains for Israel but for the USA?

              If they won't do the right thing for them and for everybody, then the rest of us must.

              The right thing for everyone is for the USA is to just fucking back off and stop pointing a gun at Kim's head. Then he'll be less likely to use his nukes. He AND at least some of his top brass know if NK uses nukes offensively they are screwed. Kim isn't fat because he's been living a Spartan lifestyle. Do you think he really wants to end the good times for himself?

              Look at it from his point of view. The only reason why Kim is trying to get a nukes AND prove he can use them is because Kim desperately needs some insurance against the provably Evil and Deadly US Regime.

              The North Korean regime is far more evil than the USA but it's a lot weaker. If the USA wasn't so keen on regime change NK wouldn't have been in such a hurry to get nukes.

              Go learn from history and stop believing your own country's propaganda. You are the bad guys. Not the worst but pretty bad. Go look at how many democracies the USA has overthrown and the motives.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @06:00PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @06:00PM (#569058)

              evidently, the US had Kuwait horizontally drill into Iraq oil to trick/force Saddam to retaliate as a pretext to invade.

      • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Saturday September 16 2017, @01:25AM

        by Snotnose (1623) on Saturday September 16 2017, @01:25AM (#568786)

        Give Seoul a 1 month evacuation order. Build tent cities 10 miles out of Seoul. Spread them out, way out. Make damn sure dinky penis Kim knows what is happening.

        When it's time for the shit to hit the fan close the roads into Seoul at 4 AM, nobody gets in. You didn't evacuate? Sux2bu.

        Now hit as many of their artillery positions as possible, make sure Pyongyang is devastated, make sure their science research sites are devastated, and make sure anything that looks hinky is devastated. I'm guessing we can nail 90% of their artillery positions, so we're good.

        --
        Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by number11 on Friday September 15 2017, @02:19AM (5 children)

      by number11 (1170) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 15 2017, @02:19AM (#568229)

      They know we don't want to invade them.

      I don't know that Carrottop doesn't want to invade them. So how would they know that? We never have signed a peace treaty with them, have we?

      'splain to me how 30 years of diplomacy has done us a bit of good.

      Well, we haven't had a shooting war with them in the last 30 years. That's a bit of good. You may not worry about people getting killed, but I do. After all, if their leadership is a legitimate target, ours is as well. As much as I like the idea of locking our respective heads of state in a room with Bowie knives, and not opening the door until neither comes out, that's not gonna work. Besides, why don't you tell us what nuclear power in the last 70 years has ever gotten rid of their capability. But nobody's used them, either.

      I don't know how much of their routine is actual paranoia (remember, even paranoids have real enemies), and how much of it is done to stay in power. Since time immemorial, regimes have stayed in power by claiming external threats. The running dog imperialists. Bolsheviks, Communists, illegal immigrants, Jews, Chinese, whatever. Anybody who is different will serve.

      Reply to This

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by deimtee on Friday September 15 2017, @03:04AM (2 children)

        by deimtee (3272) on Friday September 15 2017, @03:04AM (#568248) Journal

        I think South Africa is the only one who had nukes and gave them up. There are a bunch of countries that have the technical expertise to design and build them but decided not to.
        Doesn't detract from the rest of your points.

        --
        If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 15 2017, @03:58AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 15 2017, @03:58AM (#568267)

          Ukraine too.

        • (Score: 2) by number11 on Friday September 15 2017, @06:17AM

          by number11 (1170) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 15 2017, @06:17AM (#568321)

          Good point, I forgot about SA.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday September 15 2017, @02:05PM (1 child)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday September 15 2017, @02:05PM (#568437) Journal

        I don't know that Carrottop doesn't want to invade them. So how would they know that? We never have signed a peace treaty with them, have we?

        The only reason to invade them is because they have nuclear weapons and are threatening to use them on everybody. There is no other reason. South Korea is perfectly capable of supplying world demand for kimchi and K-Pop and Korean dramas. North Korea has nothing anybody wants.

        Ergo, if they gave up the nuclear weapons and threatening war on everybody, the rest of the world would be content to let them continue their little prison experiment.

        After all, if their leadership is a legitimate target, ours is as well.

        Great, because our leadership needs to get got, too.

        We ought to get really creative and parachute Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein, and other crack members of the 1% into North Korea to help them "sort out their economy and identify key value drivers." We'll suture body cams to their chests so we can watch the footage as a reality TV series. Hilarity will ensue.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 15 2017, @06:01PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 15 2017, @06:01PM (#568587)

          Ergo, if they gave up the nuclear weapons and threatening war on everybody, the rest of the world would be content to let them continue their little prison experiment.

          Which would end pretty rapidly without the perceived threat of foreign meddling and imminent invasion. North Korean serfs need to remain mortally afraid of the outside world or they'd have little reason to look to the Kim family to save them. In general, you can convince a populous to make sacrifices for the war effort if they believe they are under existential threat. "If there is no existential threat, then why are we living in destitution?" It wouldn't be long before the North Korean people perceived Pyongyang as the source of their misery.

    • (Score: 2) by richtopia on Friday September 15 2017, @03:36PM

      by richtopia (3160) on Friday September 15 2017, @03:36PM (#568493) Homepage Journal

      The rational part is that the USA is not the only threat the Kim family is facing. It is actually a much smaller threat than the country collapsing into infighting. The evil USA mantra helps the Kim family control the populace and spend money on the army.

      I am unsure why we have so much testing of missiles currently. Perhaps Trump really is scaring the North Koreans, and they are trying to inflate their defensive capabilities. Or perhaps there is some internal strife that isn't visible to the international community, and the missile program is somehow assisting with keeping Kim Jong-un in power.