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posted by martyb on Monday October 02 2017, @04:18PM   Printer-friendly

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/02/554976369/section-of-las-vegas-strip-is-closed-after-music-festival-shooting

A gunman fired upon thousands of people attending a music festival on the Las Vegas Strip Sunday night, in a brutal attack that is blamed for at least 58 deaths, police say. In the mass shooting and panic that ensued, 515 people were injured. At least one of the dead is an off-duty police officer who was attending the concert.

Editorializing: Interesting how media always emphasize ISLAMIC terrorists, but downplay domestic terrorism as psychologically disturbed individual lone-wolfs.


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  • (Score: 2, Flamebait) by jmorris on Monday October 02 2017, @05:06PM (21 children)

    by jmorris (4844) on Monday October 02 2017, @05:06PM (#575984)

    I know this story has to go up but it will be sound and fury signifying nothing.

    Somebody will call for gun control and be flamed to a crisp. Somebody will (already has) bring up the terrorist angle and the painfully obvious narratives will be trotted out and be argued again. The reports that the shooter was at anti-trump rallies will make it here and another flamewar will ensue.

    We won't actually know much for 48 hours because we never do. Even in the information age we still don't begin to sort out all the conflicting reports from these horrible incidents for a few hours.

    We have destroyed social cohesion, leaving millions feeling isolated and disgruntled. Then we allowed so many terror attacks that violence is mainstreamed. This shit is going to keep happening, that is the bottom line. Plan accordingly.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by meustrus on Monday October 02 2017, @05:24PM (9 children)

      by meustrus (4961) on Monday October 02 2017, @05:24PM (#576000)

      Somebody will call for gun control and be flamed to a crisp.

      Resulting in yet another run on gun stores by nutjobs who think this is their last chance to get that handgun they will never even learn how to use. Highly profitable for the gun industry that controls politicians through the NRA.

      --
      If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 02 2017, @07:03PM (8 children)

        Erm... that never really happened. Now .22 shells being all but unobtainable did.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by meustrus on Monday October 02 2017, @10:05PM (7 children)

          by meustrus (4961) on Monday October 02 2017, @10:05PM (#576248)
          --
          If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 02 2017, @10:31PM (6 children)

            Sales going up does not quite equate to "a run on". It's still fairly hard to find .22 shells for sale though.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Tuesday October 03 2017, @06:49AM (5 children)

              by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday October 03 2017, @06:49AM (#576464) Journal

              TMB, you compete firearm novice, what are you talking about? .22 is a caliber, not a "shell". And the "shell" is not quite descriptive enough either, it is only the empty casing once the bullet has been fired. So did you mean .22 short rimfire? Or .22 Long rimfire? Or possibly, and the most likely, .22 Long Rifle rimfire? Could you be referring to the Winchester Magnum Rimfire in .22 caliber? Or any of the centerfire configurations in the same bore diameter? .22-250? .222 Remington? .223 Remington (also know as the NATO 5.56mm round) .224 Weatherby Magnum? .225 Winchester? I was sure there was a Roberts round in this caliber, but it escapes me at the moment. '
              '
              So which of these "shells", oh Mis-aiming Artillery Buzzard [google.com], are you referring to, and do you have any actual evidence to support your scurrilous assertions? Or are you once again hoist on your own petard, but, actually, a .22 is a rather small petard, so perhaps you failed to be hoisted?

              --
              #Freearistarchus, again!!!!!1!!
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @07:12AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @07:12AM (#576472)

                It's funny to see you expose your Achilles Heel while trying to take someone else to task over firearm terminology. Not worth a +1, Funny mod, but in a sad sort of way.

                You should try getting out of the house and finding a safe place to fire a .22 for yourself. Just ask for a "twenty two" to shoot; the folks behind the counter will know how to set you up right.

                • (Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Tuesday October 03 2017, @07:37AM

                  by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday October 03 2017, @07:37AM (#576481) Journal

                  So, just as ignorant as the TMB, I take it? You should be more careful. Chambering the incorrect cartridge, even though designers try to make such a thing difficult, can result in breach failure or a barrel banana peel.

                  --
                  #Freearistarchus, again!!!!!1!!
              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 03 2017, @10:49AM (2 children)

                And here I thought you'd be able to tell that I meant all ammunition of a .22 caliber. There's been almost none to be found at any given moment for a decade now.

                Just a quick P.S. FYI: almost all .22 caliber weapons will fire any of .22 long rifle cartridges, .22 long cartridges, and .22 short cartridges at a minimum. If yours won't, it's up to you to know that.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday October 04 2017, @12:22AM (1 child)

                  by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday October 04 2017, @12:22AM (#576862) Journal

                  and do you have any actual evidence to support your scurrilous assertions?

                  Answer the question, Buzzard! What shortages, other than those created in the minds of ammosexuals by the fact that a black man was president of the United States?

                  --
                  #Freearistarchus, again!!!!!1!!
                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 05 2017, @02:49AM

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 05 2017, @02:49AM (#577292) Homepage Journal

                    Uhhhhh - the .22 shortage began BEFORE Obama was elected. I don't do a lot of shooting anymore, to be honest. My sons started talking about how hard it was to find .22 ammo. When they were younger, it wasn't uncommon for them to purchase a "brick" of ammunition. They, and their cousins, could burn through the whole brick pretty quickly. During Bush's second term, the "shortage" was being talked about. Obama's terms saw that "shortage" get worse. Almost no one would sell a whole brick of ammo. Instead, when a shipment of ammo came in to the retailer, there were a bunch of people waiting to buy up what was available. If the ammo didn't sell out immediately, word of mouth brought customers in quickly to deplete the retail store's stocks.

                    I never ran out - the half dozen boxes that I hid away stayed hidden. 300 rounds, available if/when I decided to use them. That's not a lot of ammo, but it's enough for a long time if you're not just burning through it for fun.

                    Personally, I seldom had money to buy ammo when I was a kid. I used a single shot, and made every shot count. I had friends who used semi-automatics, and fired more rounds on a weekend than I did in a year. Funny thing about most of them - they couldn't place their shots like me. The saying, "couldn't hit the broad side of a barn" didn't quite apply. They could fire a hundred rounds pretty damned quickly, and SOME of those rounds would hit the barn.

                    From my point of view, people who are wasteful of their ammunition shouldn't be surpirsed if ammunition becomes hard to find.

                    I've always had enough ammo laying around for whatever purposes I had for it.

                    --
                    “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by choose another one on Monday October 02 2017, @05:44PM (3 children)

      by choose another one (515) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 02 2017, @05:44PM (#576021)

      > The reports that the shooter was at anti-trump rallies will make it here and another flamewar will ensue.

      Before anyone starts that flamewar, those reports are already debunked and appear to be based on a misidentification of the shooter as one Geary Danley.

      See e.g. here: https://thinkprogress.org/gateway-pundit-geary-danley-5280ad08276f/ [thinkprogress.org]

      There are also reports that ISIS have claimed him (the real shooter not the fake news one) as one of their own and that he was a convert to Islam.

      His brother is now on record, all over the internet (google Eric Paddock) as saying he had _no_ political or religious affiliations, no mental illness alcohol or drugs problems, he had plenty of money and gambled high stakes but no one yet knows if he had money problems or big losses.

      IMO it'll take more than 48hrs to get real reliable information on motive, religions etc. - if indeed we ever find out.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @07:02PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @07:02PM (#576089)

        Hmm, perhaps blackmailed into it? "We need another mass shooter, people aren't as afraid as they used to be." "Ok, lets threaten some guy we have easy leverage over muahaha."

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @10:19PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @10:19PM (#576260)

        Here is most of what we have so far: https://i.redd.it/n5le2zvuqgpz.png [i.redd.it]

        There was also a facebook page -- not handy to me at the moment -- that had a bunch of "not my president" stuff, Rachel Maddow's show, and similar.

        So it's pretty certain that this guy was liberal/left/democrat. He shot up an event that would tend to attract Trump supporters.

        There is also a potential connection to ISIS via his wife/girlfriend/roommate Marilou Danley. She's from the Philippines, where ISIS is active in the south, and was there when the shooting happened. She was also in the Middle East last year, having traveled to Dubai at least.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 02 2017, @11:10PM

          He shot up an event that would tend to attract Trump supporters.

          I'll grant you that any country music (Dixie Chicks aside) concert is going to trend more red than blue but, while reliable, it's by no means a landslide.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @05:47PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @05:47PM (#576025)

      Based on what I'm hearing from the local PD's that executed the search warrant, they found evidence he had installed emacs about a week before the shooting.

      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday October 02 2017, @06:10PM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Monday October 02 2017, @06:10PM (#576041)

        Psh--it takes way longer than a week to be indoctrinated into the One True Editor. If he only installed it a week ago, he wasn't serious about it.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
      • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday October 02 2017, @07:05PM

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Monday October 02 2017, @07:05PM (#576093)

        Based on what I'm hearing from the local PD's that executed the search warrant, they found evidence he had installed emacs about a week before the shooting.

        Stop spreading fake news bullshit.

        I'm sure he was a Windows 10 user. You can't trust those people. They should all be rounded up and put in asylums.

      • (Score: 2) by turgid on Monday October 02 2017, @07:35PM

        by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 02 2017, @07:35PM (#576125) Journal

        "How do you write code using an editor of this kind?" - Yoda on emacs.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday October 02 2017, @07:44PM (1 child)

        by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 02 2017, @07:44PM (#576135) Journal

        It took him that long to figure out the key combinations to shoot.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @10:46PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @10:46PM (#576276)

        It's not for nothing Emacs is called the Swiss Army Knife of editors. Violence is inherent in the software!

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Gaaark on Monday October 02 2017, @05:42PM (20 children)

    by Gaaark (41) on Monday October 02 2017, @05:42PM (#576016) Journal

    Guns don't kill people:

    but how many could he have killed with only a plastic spoon?

    If gun shops could only sell plastic spoons, would this 'mass killing' have been able to happen?

    How about bananas: could he have killed anyone with a banana? (Not if i had a gun, he couldn't!)

    :)
    :(

    You can almost Godwin-Monty-Python any subject, lol.

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Monday October 02 2017, @05:56PM (16 children)

      by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Monday October 02 2017, @05:56PM (#576033) Journal

      I wonder what frequency of mass shootings would lead to widespread gun control. 1 per week? 1 per day?

      If it ever does happen, we will see an unreal level of stockpiling of weapons before the deadline(s).

      While it's not plastic spoons, an impressive [wikipedia.org] amount [wikipedia.org] of killings can be done with knives.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by bob_super on Monday October 02 2017, @06:10PM (11 children)

        by bob_super (1357) on Monday October 02 2017, @06:10PM (#576040)

        273 mass shootings this year. About one per day. No reaction.

        While you can kill a lot of people with knives, it's a hell of a lot harder, requires someone who's an order of magnitude more nuts and healthy, and you can't do it from the other side of the street.

        Listen to the videos. I don't know if he was shooting full auto or just pulling the trigger really fast, but it's physically impossible to injure as many people as fast as with a modern "centuries of improvements in tech" firearm. And it's impossible to protect all crowds from a high remote shooter (even closed arenas have to fill and empty).

        Stockpiling issue? Yep, that horse has bolted already. But you can limit the inflow of new weapons, as not everyone is motivated enough to make their own replacement barrels.
        It's like suicide: you can't prevent them all, but you should reduce the impact of a someone having a crazy moment.

        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @06:27PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @06:27PM (#576051)

          since he was shooting at a big crowd, it's possible that he was shooting two guns at once. it's not like he needed to aim...

        • (Score: 2) by takyon on Monday October 02 2017, @06:32PM (2 children)

          by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Monday October 02 2017, @06:32PM (#576057) Journal

          Could the 273 include shootings where nobody died? If not, what is the death threshold, 3? Maybe it was my fault and I should specify 10+ dead in 1 shooting daily. But the amount of killings needed to force change = arbitrary hypothetical speculation anyway.

          Nevermind, I found the definition [abc15.com]:

          According to data from the Gun Violence Archive, a total of 273 mass shooting incidents have occurred so far this year, as of October 2. There doesn't seem to be an official definition for a "mass shooting" in the United States, but according to the Gun Violence Archive, a mass shooting is described as four or more individuals being shot or killed in the same general time and location.

          I think you are probably right that a blanket ban (to include a repeal of the 2nd Amendment) would reduce the amount of people who can engage in these attacks. Kind of like that Soylentil AC who can't get cannabis because he's not cool enough and entirely antisocial. Remove the legitimate avenues to buy guns, and these peoples' actions will look much more suspicious as they are fumbling around trying to get machine guns from people who are FBI snitches. And going the 3D print/CNC mill route is either expensive, takes some skill, or produces an inferior weapon.

          That said, it could be offset by permanent war with militia types who have plenty of stockpiled guns and the skill to make some of their own. I think there are tens of thousands of people who are not committing violence but would start to do so if something as momentous as a 2nd Amendment repeal happened. Kind of like how Waco inspired the Oklahoma City bombing.

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 02 2017, @07:08PM (1 child)

            Probably hundreds of thousands. Possibly a million or two. I know I'd be one of them for certain.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 02 2017, @07:50PM

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 02 2017, @07:50PM (#576138) Homepage Journal

              Ditto that. I may not be much use out in the field at my age, but I'd find some way to make myself useful.

              --
              “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 02 2017, @07:06PM (1 child)

          Check the audio in the videos. He was most definitely full auto.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @08:36AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @08:36AM (#576495)

            While it could have been due to echoing sound reaching the recording cameras, I perceived a change in fire rate several times.

            It reminded me of what often happens when someone is using a "bump-fire" stock to turn a semi-automatic firearm into a kinda-sorta full-auto firearm. Example [youtube.com]

        • (Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday October 03 2017, @05:17AM (4 children)

          by Arik (4543) on Tuesday October 03 2017, @05:17AM (#576434) Journal
          "While you can kill a lot of people with knives, it's a hell of a lot harder, requires someone who's an order of magnitude more nuts and healthy, and you can't do it from the other side of the street."

          It would be work to get to the same death toll as this one, for sure, but it wouldn't be that hard to match some of the earlier shooters, nor would it require the perpetrator be particularly healthy. Or even possess an actual knife for that matter. Knives can be improvised quite easily, and they're frightfully effective against a thin-skinned animal like a human. What actually makes them hard to use is psychology. There's no separation, there's no distance, they're used close-up where the perpetrator can see, and feel, and smell, the person he's slicing apart. This is no barrier to a sociopath and may even excite them, but for a normal person this provokes strong feelings of revulsion and aversion.

          The rifle makes it psychologically easier by allowing one to kill from a distance, to kill someone that is only a human-shaped blob of color in the distance, that has no facial expressions, no deeper reality.

          That's a fair point, but it needs to be set in context. The rifle allows one man to kill another from a few hundred yards, by carefully lining up the shot then easing the trigger over while controlling ones breathing precisely. ICBMs allow one man to kill millions, from the other side of the planet with the push of a button, all details taken care of for him. Which one should we be most concerned about?

          "Stockpiling issue? Yep, that horse has bolted already. But you can limit the inflow of new weapons, as not everyone is motivated enough to make their own replacement barrels."

          Big problem with that is that regulations disproportionately affect the law-abiding citizen, and are disproportionately ineffective at changing the armament of the criminal who acts with premeditation. Sure, you give them an increased risk that in isolation might result in some deterrence - the draconian gun law they now risk conviction under - but the decreased risk of a victim turning out to be armed means that, on net, you are actually encouraging them.
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 3, Funny) by bob_super on Tuesday October 03 2017, @07:59AM (3 children)

            by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday October 03 2017, @07:59AM (#576487)

            > the decreased risk of a victim turning out to be armed means that, on net, you are actually encouraging them.

            Which is why you'll get mugged by a guy with a knife in Europe, give him your wallet, and stay alive to bitch about the inconvenience and the lack of a guild receipt.
            Short of extremely extremely rare wackos, people with a clear upper hand will just move on in a peaceful way, a civilized no-injuries situation. Worrying about the other party pulling out a hero move is what gets people shot.

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 03 2017, @10:53AM

              You're full of shit but +1 Funny for the Guild receipt quip.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @11:27AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @11:27AM (#576527)

              you'll get mugged [...] in a peaceful way, a civilized no-injuries situation

              Did this make more sense inside your head? Or do you really perceived armed criminals as "civilized"?

            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Tuesday October 03 2017, @05:35PM

              by Arik (4543) on Tuesday October 03 2017, @05:35PM (#576684) Journal
              It's funny, and pathetic, that they really expect you to do that. Ignore the demands, grab the nearest object that can be used as a weapon, and focus on taking the knife. Watch how quickly robber turns into runner. I never actually had to hit a would-be mugger in Europe, not once.

              The difference between a society where people can leave their doors unlocked without worry and one where people are afraid to walk down the street is a few percentage of 'rare wackos' who are willing to do their duty for society even when that means accepting personal risk. After the events of the 20th century, european men tend to be extremely averse to accepting personal risk, which leaves their societies easy prey to parasites. Rather the reverse of the US problem, yet hardly a virtue nonetheless.
              --
              If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by edIII on Monday October 02 2017, @07:40PM (3 children)

        by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 02 2017, @07:40PM (#576132)

        While it's not plastic spoons, an impressive [wikipedia.org] amount [wikipedia.org] of killings can be done with knives.

        That's why it's always more intelligent to treat the cause and not the symptom. Get rid of all guns, and it will be knives. Make sure all knives are gone, and that kitchens somehow function with it out them, and it will be bombs. Get rid of the explosives and it will be poison. At some point, you will need to heavily, heavily, heavily, lock down the 3D maker crowds with their printers. What about CNC mills and all those people with skills to just make a gun?

        I'm more interested in the cause. Society is fracturing and tearing itself apart as we speak. From reading different articles about it, this guy had no money problems, no religious or political affiliations, and was retired with multiple private aircraft while being a high stakes gambler. What the fuck was his motivation to bring that much firepower and rain it down on a concert? ISIS is taking responsibility, but that isn't credible given the other evidence.

        Whatever motivated this guy to do what he did, would motivate him to do something beyond guns and rifles. That may have actually had for more impact, meaning something other than a gun. What would an explosive vest have done? Some hover drones with 1KG of simtex? What would ricin do sprayed above the crowd for a few minutes via drone?

        That's why I'm more interested in the cause. Life is really just one big fucking toolbox, and if you have the skills, time, and motivation, you can get shit done.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 02 2017, @07:54PM (2 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 02 2017, @07:54PM (#576139) Homepage Journal

          I've been waiting for a conspiracy theorist to point the finger at the FBI/CIA/other alphabet soup agency. Projecting voices into the man's head, forcing him to take action. Alas, none have stepped forward to suggest it, so I'll have to bring it up. *big grin*

          --
          “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
    • (Score: 2) by turgid on Monday October 02 2017, @07:28PM

      by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 02 2017, @07:28PM (#576118) Journal

      And what about a pointed stick?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @07:28PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @07:28PM (#576119)

      Yes, it would have still happened. The hardware this individual used has been banned for decades. This was a full automatic weapon and drum magazine. No idea where we got his hardware, but it's not something you'll find at any gun shop.

  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Monday October 02 2017, @06:12PM

    by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Monday October 02 2017, @06:12PM (#576043) Journal
  • (Score: 2) by Bot on Monday October 02 2017, @06:35PM (2 children)

    by Bot (3902) on Monday October 02 2017, @06:35PM (#576061) Journal

    > Interesting how media always emphasize ISLAMIC terrorists.

    Yes, and if there were a place where lunatic shooters abound, and we let them immigrate from there, because they flee from wars and stuff, never mind that it makes no sense financially socially and security wise, the media would emphasize that too. Except the media, which keeps telling us X won't happen and X happens, is not emphasizing a lot of Islamic related stuff.

    Anyway: terrorism against country music concerts is new to me, care to theorize an ideological framework for what you called terrorism?

    BTW Just not to be taken as an apologist, I support the complete eradication of both islam and country music from the planet. Getting rid of all meatbags should suffice.

    --
    Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @06:42PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @06:42PM (#576067)

      I support the complete eradication of ... country music from the planet.

      I don't know how old your software is, but your mental age is 12!

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by Bot on Monday October 02 2017, @09:41PM

        by Bot (3902) on Monday October 02 2017, @09:41PM (#576222) Journal

        > but your mental age is 12!
        Dear log,
        Today I passed the turing test.

        --
        Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @06:53PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @06:53PM (#576079)

    Being "over the lake", it is interesting to see differences in reports from American outlets vs. European ones. Namely the one which stuck out the most to me, is that the American outlets not only mention the death toll, but also explicitly point out number of injured cops, and even details such as 2(?) of the fatalities being off-duty cops. This detail isn't mentioned in many European sources I read.

    Why the emphasis on cops? Are cops, and off-duty ones at that, somehow more special in the eyes of Americans, or more likely the American media perhaps? To me, this helps fuel the us-vs-them attitude that we non-Americans see of cop-vs-public brewing in America. Reporting the injuries of on-duty cops I can perhaps understand, it shows they are doing a dangerous job and getting injured in the line of duty, and gives a sense of how the events unfolded. But off-duty fatalities? Those people were not any different from the rest of the public enjoying the event. Details of off-duty cops vs regular masses aren't important, they're all people at the end of the day. Why not report statistics of fatalities from people working in other sectors and professions, for example military, doctors, nurses, teachers? They are just as deserving a mention.

    • (Score: 5, Touché) by Grishnakh on Monday October 02 2017, @07:08PM

      by Grishnakh (2831) on Monday October 02 2017, @07:08PM (#576096)

      Why the emphasis on cops? Are cops, and off-duty ones at that, somehow more special in the eyes of Americans, or more likely the American media perhaps?

      Yes, conservative Americans absolutely believe that cops are more special than everyone else.

      To me, this helps fuel the us-vs-them attitude that we non-Americans see of cop-vs-public brewing in America.

      Yep.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Monday October 02 2017, @07:10PM (1 child)

      by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Monday October 02 2017, @07:10PM (#576098) Journal

      Cops are a protected class of U.S. citizen with the ability to kill and have a reasonable expectation of getting away with it. They should certainly be considered heroes in a situation like this, even if they didn't do much of anything.

      About 100 cops [odmp.org] have been killed in 2017, with around 700 killed by cops [washingtonpost.com]. So we can conclude that the life of a cop is seven times, or perhaps fourteen or seventy times more valuable than an ordinary citizen.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @07:18PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @07:18PM (#576109)

      Its a mix, ratings are definitely part of it but probably more like an excuse that producers tell themselves when they push such stories out. Keeping US citizens divided is the key part, along with keeping law enforcement in the us/them mindset. It is much easier to get LEOs to do what you want when they have anger directed at every nameless citizen.

    • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday October 03 2017, @06:52PM

      by urza9814 (3954) on Tuesday October 03 2017, @06:52PM (#576729) Journal

      Why the emphasis on cops? Are cops, and off-duty ones at that, somehow more special in the eyes of Americans, or more likely the American media perhaps?

      In the eyes of the government, certainly. Some states have even passed laws such that assaulting an off-duty cop is a felony while assaulting a regular citizen is merely a misdemeanor.

      http://kfor.com/2015/04/22/bill-signed-into-law-will-increase-penalties-for-assaulting-off-duty-officer/ [kfor.com]

      To me, this helps fuel the us-vs-them attitude that we non-Americans see of cop-vs-public brewing in America.

      Yup. As if things like the "Police Officers' Bill of Rights" that nearly every state has enacted -- which gives police officers special rights if they are accused of any crime -- didn't do that already...

  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday October 03 2017, @12:47AM (2 children)

    by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday October 03 2017, @12:47AM (#576336) Journal

    Was he listening to Marilyn Manson, or reading Catcher in the fecking Rye?

    I need a connection to hate! (Here's hoping it was pop music and concerned parents ban pop music from the air waves).

    Peoples is dumb.

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @03:46AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @03:46AM (#576408)

    The FBI seems to have a full time job of being involved in terror events/false flags in the US. Just check it out if you've got stockholm syndrome and you're whinging about lack of government action on gun control or other absurd stupidity.

    It looks like the shooting location is bullshit. Why shoot from 32 stories? That's too high to be ideal. It's doubtful that you would need that many stories to get the angle on the crowd. You'd be increasing range for no benefit. The tv "news" had audio of a cop identifying the shooting as coming from the middle of the building, which just happens to be corroborated here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu9Z_KzcS3s [youtube.com]

    I wondered why the cop would be so far off in his description of the location. That's because he wasn't, and the tv was lying again. The feds and their propaganda distribution network, the tv, disrespect the good cops risking their lives. That is how much they care for their own. Psyop on the populace. I'm not saying people didn't really get shot. Don't be stupid.

    If they'll shoot a lady in the head while she's holding her infant and spray a ten yr old boy in the back with an mp5 after shooting his dog because the dog was doing his job because their were murderous pigs hiding in the woods (ruby ridge) and they'll burn kids alive in waco and they'll try to get "the kkk" to blow up chem plants in Dallas and many more things, why the fuck wouldn't they kill some Deplorables for gun control (or whatever their goal is)?

    All these disingenuous pieces of shit in congress calling for gun control should be investigating the FBI, but they won't do that because they are complicit scum, and likely controlled. They need to be held accountable. That's how you honor the victims. They think they can kill us to scare us into doing anything. They are seditious subversives and they need to know what terror really is.

    To the AC submitter: think deeper. They are not downplaying anything. It's just a different propaganda target. It's every (mainly white) man with less to lose (no family) in the country that could be a terrorist. You should start ratting your fellow Americans out immediately.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @09:43AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @09:43AM (#576509)

    Your impressive full word CAPITALISATION did not save the world trade center.

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