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posted by martyb on Tuesday January 05 2021, @07:53PM   Printer-friendly
from the so-it-has-come-to-this dept.

LA Paramedics Told Not To Transport Some Patients With Low Chance Of Survival:

The Los Angeles County Emergency Medical Services Agency issued a directive Monday that ambulance crews should only administer bottled oxygen to patients whose oxygen saturation levels fall below 90%.

In a separate memo from the county's EMS Agency, paramedic crews have been told not to transfer patients who experience cardiac arrest unless spontaneous circulation can be restored on the scene.

Both measures announced Monday, which were issued by the agency's medical director, Dr. Marianne Gausche-Hill, were taken in an attempt to get ahead of an expected surge to come following the winter holidays.

Many hospitals in the region "have reached a point of crisis and are having to make very tough decisions about patient care," Dr. Christina Ghaly, the LA County director of health services said at a briefing Monday.

[...] "We do not believe that we are yet seeing the cases that stemmed from the Christmas holiday," Ghaly added. "This, sadly, and the cases from the recent New Year's holiday, is still before us, and hospitals across the region are doing everything they can to prepare."

'We Are Not Abandoning Resuscitation': LA County Healthcare Leader Speaks Out After Memo Raises Concerns:

Los Angeles County hospitals are so inundated, officials said they're just trying to provide the best care they can for the people who need it.

The memo sent out on December 28 by the medical director of L.A. County's Emergency Medical Services agency, Dr. Marianne Gausche-Hill, addressed how first responders should treat stroke and heart attack patients, saying a patient should be treated at the scene first and have a pulse during resuscitation before transporting them to the hospital.

[...] The medical director of L.A. County's Emergency Services Agency, Dr. Marianne Gausche-Hill, assured CBS2 that officials continue to do all they can to save patients' lives at the scene and the hospital, as they always have.

"We are not abandoning resuscitation," Gausche-Hill said. "We are absolutely doing best practice resuscitation and that is do it in the field, do it right away... What we're asking is that — which is slightly different than before — is that we are emphasizing the fact that transporting these patients arrested leads to very poor outcomes.


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  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday January 05 2021, @10:45PM (14 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday January 05 2021, @10:45PM (#1095290) Journal

    Expand hospitals: where do you think the money for this is going to come from?

    Money is a bullshit issue. The fed is giving Wall Street almost a trillion a month. Just divert that river, and we'll have thousands of very nice hospitals with well paid employees, and beluga caviar on the finest china.

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 06 2021, @02:14AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 06 2021, @02:14AM (#1095411)

    The fed is giving Wall Street almost a trillion a month.

    Citation please.

    I'm betting this is exactly like the other time you opened your mouth about finance and showed that you thought the treasury market was wall street, when in reality it was you being too stupid to understand that buying back treasury's was simply the government repaying part of the debt that was coming due.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 06 2021, @02:21AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 06 2021, @02:21AM (#1095412)

      Believe what you wish. If you're making money from it, more power to ya! Go ahead, I say, join the circus and make a bundle, just know when to cash out and convert to another currency.

      Whatever, all your cash shortages are due to this one thing. I would expect you to be in denial as long as you're not hurting personally.

  • (Score: 2) by Username on Wednesday January 06 2021, @02:59AM (1 child)

    by Username (4557) on Wednesday January 06 2021, @02:59AM (#1095432)

    Just divert that river, and we'll have thousands of very nice hospitals with well paid employees, and beluga caviar on the finest china.

    That's not how subsidising works. If we do divert it, they will just beg for more since they know they will get it. You will get even more photos of lines and ques with people begging for care while doctors still dine on caviar.

    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 06 2021, @04:15AM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday January 06 2021, @04:15AM (#1095460) Journal

      There's enough money there (they stopped counting) to quarantine and treat the entire population in their own private suites, with monitors for off track betting, and caviar for all!

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday January 06 2021, @05:43PM (9 children)

    by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday January 06 2021, @05:43PM (#1095677)

    Ok, then how exactly do you think more hospitals will get built with federal money?

    In case you forgot, they've tried this several times with broadband: give lots of money to the cablecos, with the promise that it'll result in lots of broadband expansion, and what happens? The ISPs just pocket the cash and don't build anything.

    You can't have the government just giving money to companies with the vague promise that something useful will happen with it. It never works. If you want actual results, you need ironclad contracts, which is how "government contractors" work. But that's a whole industry of companies that specialize in contracting with the government (companies like Lockheed-Martin, for instance, plus many many others around the Beltway). There's no precedent for such a thing with healthcare corporations that are not already contractors.

    Finally, where are you going to find all these "well paid employees"? You think you're just going to hire qualified doctors and nurses off the street? I don't care how much money you throw at the problem; you can't just will qualified employees into existence. You sound like someone who thinks you can gestate a baby in 1 month by putting 9 women to work on the problem.

    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 06 2021, @05:55PM (8 children)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday January 06 2021, @05:55PM (#1095683) Journal

      Government oversight is our responsibility. It's up to us to employ competent people and to discharge the incompetent with the opportunity we are granted every two years. If we can't be bothered, the bullshit will continue.

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday January 07 2021, @02:07AM (7 children)

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Thursday January 07 2021, @02:07AM (#1096112)

        Yes, every nation gets the government it deserves.

        But I don't see how that has anything to do with this discussion. You still haven't addressed my point about the lack of qualified staff. No, you can't make doctors in 3 months. I don't care how competent a government is; it's not possible to create highly trained people overnight, no matter how much money you have.

        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 07 2021, @02:40AM (6 children)

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 07 2021, @02:40AM (#1096133) Journal

          We are supposed to seek out and appoint people to make those arrangements, make the government serve, use that money for massive training efforts and other infrastructure, so what if you don't have them immediately, they are there for the future. Chronic shortages of anything is a crime. It should not happen in a prosperous society. So now, let's correct the problem, by redirecting all that fed money to where it is needed. Giving it to Wall Street only buys hookers and coke.

          --
          La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
          • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday January 07 2021, @06:23AM (5 children)

            by Grishnakh (2831) on Thursday January 07 2021, @06:23AM (#1096312)

            Again, I really don't care how much money you throw at it, you simply cannot train people to be doctors and nurses in a few months. It takes years. It's just like making a baby: even if you take all the money of Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Jeff Bezos combined, it will still take 9 months, no matter what. Sure, you could train some people to be nurses' aides, but that's only going to go so far: you have to have real doctors and nurses, and they can only service so many patients at a time, even with some extra less-trained help.

            And finally, it's not the government's job to train doctors. We have a system of mostly privately-owned healthcare companies, and various universities and medical schools that have limited enrollment, so we can only make so many new doctors and nurses at a time, and it just isn't something the federal government has any control over. This isn't Cuba, nor is it the UK, or even Canada. What you're advocating is for this country to become more like one of those countries, and Americans do not want that (even if it would work much better, since we have by far the highest cost for care in the world (including as a percentage of GDP), but not great care for most of the population). Even in the middle of a terrible pandemic, Americans have clearly spoken at the voting booth that they do not want "socialism" (while Biden won the Presidential election, the Democrats (who aren't even socialist except for a few) **lost** seats in the House). There's just not anywhere near enough political will in this country to make the kind of changes you're advocating.

            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 07 2021, @07:04AM (4 children)

              by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 07 2021, @07:04AM (#1096325) Journal

              Americans have clearly spoken at the voting booth

              Exactly, and that is why we have shortages and rationing. A mere observation. There is no mystery.

              --
              La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
              • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday January 07 2021, @04:20PM (3 children)

                by Grishnakh (2831) on Thursday January 07 2021, @04:20PM (#1096504)

                We're getting the government that we voted for, and that we deserve.

                • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 07 2021, @05:26PM (2 children)

                  by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 07 2021, @05:26PM (#1096537) Journal

                  That's all I ever said. But in answer to your original question, if you're looking for the money, you know where it is, and they are printing it like there's an infinite supply. So, people just have to vote on where it goes. And they just voted to send more trillions to Wall Street instead of disaster relief. The money issue is as plain as day, plenty there, just being misspent on hookers and coke.

                  --
                  La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                  • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday January 07 2021, @07:41PM (1 child)

                    by Grishnakh (2831) on Thursday January 07 2021, @07:41PM (#1096636)

                    Yes, but that's the way this country rolls. We don't want "socialism", so instead of having a well-managed healthcare system like those in UK or Germany (which can be more centralized like the UK's, or more public/private partnership like Germany), where we really could build more hospitals and push more education/training programs to increase the number of healthcare professionals (which would still take a lot of time, but at least it'd prepare us for the next pandemic), we rely on "The Holy Invisible Hand" to run things and then throw money at Wall Street when things aren't working.

                    I just don't see any way of fixing this when half our country is violently (and I mean that word literally, based on what we saw yesterday) opposed to anything that could be called "socialism", but is perfectly happy to hand out money to Wall Street.

                    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 07 2021, @08:03PM

                      by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 07 2021, @08:03PM (#1096654) Journal

                      Yes, but that's the way this country rolls.

                      And that is the problem, not the money, we just create barriers to access.

                      --
                      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..