SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
2021-01-07 14:44:44 UTC: UPDATE (See below the fold).
Pro-Trump rioters breach the US Capitol on historic day in Congress:
Supporters of President Donald Trump breached the US Capitol on Wednesday while Congress was meeting to certify the Electoral College's votes for president and vice president.
The Capitol has been put on lockdown and the certification vote has been paused. Vice President Mike Pence was evacuated from the building. House and Senate leadership is safe and in undisclosed locations, according to a person familiar with the situation.
Congress' counting of electoral votes is typically little more than an afterthought. But this joint session was expected to be a contentious affair that would last late into the evening and possibly on Thursday. Some Republicans are objecting to the count and delaying the inevitable certification of President-elect Joe Biden's win.
Also at AlJazeera (In Pictures: Pro-trump mob storms US Capitol building) and c|net (Mob storms Capitol forcing halt of election vote count).
[2021-01-06 22:33:53 UTC; UPDATE] NOTE: This is a chaotic time.
The Electoral College votes are currently being confirmed and tallied. Runoff votes in Georgia are being tallied and the results may swing the balance of power in the US Senate. The Georgia secretary of state [has been] relocated from [State] Capitol for security reasons. Mitch McConnell goes off on Trump. Pro-Trump reporter gloats over access to fleeing Hill staffer's computer. And Trump hand-picks replacement for Atlanta's US attorney after surprise resignation.
Let's please try and keep the discussion civil.
Also, please be polite and share your popcorn!
[Updates Begin]:
(1) Fox News reports Biden's Electoral College victory certified -- hours after Capitol chaos:
The U.S. Congress early Thursday certified the Electoral College vote that gave Democrat Joe Biden his presidential victory -- after a day in Washington that was marred by pro-Trump protesters storming the U.S. Capitol.
Vice President Mike Pence, who had announced he would not overturn the will of voters, confirmed the Biden victory at 3:41 a.m. ET.
Lawmakers had returned to the chamber in an act of defiance, with some Republicans who initially vowed to challenge states' results due to voter fraud concerns announcing they'd instead vote to certify.
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., called the breach of the Capitol a "failed insurrection," adding that those who "tried to disrupt our democracy" had not succeeded.
(2) President Trump "Responds" via Staffer's Twitter Account after His Account was Suspended:
Statement by President Donald J. Trump on the Electoral Certification:
"Even though I totally disagree with the outcome of the election, and the facts bear me out, nevertheless there will be an orderly transition on January 20th. I have always said we would continue our...
...fight to ensure that only legal votes were counted. While this represents the end of the greatest first term in presidential history, it's only the beginning of our fight to Make America Great Again!"
(3) Facebook, Twitter lock Trump's account following video addressing Washington rioters:
- Twitter and Facebook on Wednesday said they would lock the account of President Donald Trump after he continued to make false claims about the results of the 2020 U.S. presidential election.
- Facebook, YouTube and Twitter on Wednesday removed a video by President Donald Trump addressing Washington rioters.
- Meanwhile, calls are mounting for Twitter and Facebook to suspend Trump's accounts.
(4) The Associated Press has called the results for the Georgia Senate elections: both Democratic candidates defeated their GOP opponents:
With projected victories in the twin races of Warnock and Ossoff, President-elect Joe Biden will have the narrowest majority in the Senate, with both parties holding 50-50 seats apiece, allowing the tie-breaking vote to be cast by Vice President-elect Kamala Harris.
Also at The New York Times.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Thursday January 07 2021, @08:06AM (26 children)
I'm disappointed in you, Runaway.
If you haven't seen the media pictures and videos flashing around the world then you need to change your sources of information and news. Rioters scaling the walls inside the chamber. Rioters sitting at the Speaker's desk. Senators of both parties having to hide in the gallery and being told to don their gasmasks. Armed guards having to draw their weapons and take aim at the last remaining barrier between the mob and democracy. Four people dead. Trump flags and QAnon banners being waved inside the building. This is not a peaceful protest. And all encouraged by your President who told them to take their protest to the Capitol building and then thanked the rioters for their actions and told them that he loved them.
If you want to make excuses for people such as these then you are no better than they are - indeed many will see that you are supporting them. Disrupting the democratic process by violence and intimidation IS domestic terrorism.
The whole world will remember this day for many years to come. The next time the USA wants to introduce democracy to another country please excuse us if we roll about the floor laughing at the very thought.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 07 2021, @09:43AM (8 children)
Finally you understand what we liberals have been pointing out for so long. The same goes for anyone still parroting the election fraud conspiracies. They were entertained for the first few weeks as the recounts, investigations, and lawsuits proceeded but at this point it is clear that it is simply hypocritical treason to the very concept of democracy. One of your fellow staff members was pushing the election fraud stuff earlier, food for thought.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Thursday January 07 2021, @03:00PM (7 children)
There you go again using that 'Finally' accusation. I've understood what has been being said - I just haven't thought it worthwhile saying anything that did not actually improve the discussion. I don't need lectures from somebody who hasn't experienced a fraction of what I have.
I'm probably more left-wing that you are yet you seem to fail to understand that - you 'liberals' have go a long way to go yet. Show me the health care for all, show me the compassion for those out of work and starving, show me the attempts to integrate together people of all religions and beliefs, of all political leanings, and the ability to have multiple political parties with equitable funding and exposure. Show me fair treatment for those who are subjected to police harassment or worse because of the colour of their skin. Show me a country that is not divided by a civil war that was over many, many years ago. Show me a country where children are not separated from their parents and which is then unable to remedy the outcome. Let me see an America that was built my immigrants yet now sees them as something to be stopped at all costs. A country that recognises the indigenous people - the Eskimo, the Indian - and the contribution that they have made. Show me an America that is respected and not ridiculed, an America that has earned the right to represent the free world, an America that does not need to carry weapons to be the 'home of the brave'.
But don't you dare try to lecture me because at the moment the whole world is looking at you in disbelief and astonishment, and we are wondering how you came to fall so quickly and so far.
A change of government alone is not going to change the America that we see at the moment. The people will have to change how they act and think too. And at the moment there is little for the world to be optimistic about.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 07 2021, @03:23PM
I can show you a President and 1/2 the government who tried to remove healthcare.
I can show you a President who raised $200m for a PAC to "stop the steal".
Would that help?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 07 2021, @06:16PM (2 children)
Sorry you got so offended there, but like it or not you are a in a leadership position here at SN. Since this place is a supposed community it requires community responses to things like fake news and such. You have been silent or mildly supportive.of rightwing narratives at times, and when aristarchus complains about how his submissions regarding the rise of fascism you frequently chimed in to chastise him. Yet runaway only got pushback from a couple of liberal users. So yes, I lecture you but it is hardly some scathing attack. Just relief that the head editor (ex since you've got life stuff?) finally called out one of the main contributors of fake news.
You wonder how we fell? Because fake news propaganda was allowed to spread like wild fire with no official response to call out when some rag is pushing verifiably false information. The exiting administration pushed lies as a matter of course and the news outlets we rely on were incredibly timid in calling out the bullshit.
Same thing here on SN. I don't want censorship, but the community will not survive when Runaway can spread his fake news and even get it published to the front page, but Aristarchus's subs are rejected automatically because reasons not having to do with the veracity of the content. I am not ari btw, and you shouldn't complain since I never called you out until now and that was hardly an accusation. Just relief that runaway finally got some pushback from one of the site's leaders.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Thursday January 07 2021, @07:40PM (1 child)
There are so many errors here I don't know where to start, but I'll give it a try:
I am not offended by your comments, they are no different that many you have made before. You are just plain wrong. People are allowed to express their views whether you like them or not. It is not the editors job to control comments - that role belongs to the community and you have been given the tools to carry out that job.
You seem to think that because I did not censor comments that I agreed with them. Wrong. If people are talking rubbish it isn't the editors' role to correct them, it is yours. Argue your case, prove that they are wrong with factual references. What you must not do is try to silence them. Everyone has the right to speak.
Deciding what is fake news and what isn't is a near impossible task. I am not in the USA. I do not know the personalities. You live there and you do know them. IT IS YOUR JOB to argue against fake news and prove that the statements are false. Again you are telling editors what they should do. That is NOT YOUR PREROGATIVE. Editors have to comply with the editorial rules and other constraints to process stories for publication on the front page. We are not here to do what you appear to be incapable of doing - and that is arguing your case through discussion.
I don't chastise Aristarchus for his comments - I chastise him for his submissions. We have discussed his claims on several occasions. Repeat submissions on essentially the same topic are unwanted. The editors are supposed to be finding new submissions that will generate a discussion, not picking those that just reiterate the same claims each time although quoting different names. Aristarchus can say what he likes in the comments, but the editors are responsible for the front page. We read every one of his submissions - trust me it isn't easy - but if there is nothing new in them to discuss they will be rejected. Why you cannot understand this is beyond me. Is it perhaps because he says something that you agree with? Well tough - he has a journal in which he can publish anything that he wants to publish and if his submissions are not worthy of the front page that is where they should go.
Yes, you have fake news and propaganda in the USA. You currently have a broken country. You cannot see a way to compromise and accommodate each other - you are an American, sort it out! But do not try to use this platform to push your own views other than in your comments when you will get the response that the community believes that you deserve. Some might agree and others might not.
Runaway's submissions - not his comments - are based on news reports from recognised sources and are usually easily placed in the appropriate Topic. If you don't like what those sources say disagree in the comments. That is how this site works. Do your homework. Look up the submissions from Runaway and Aristarchus and compare the variety of topics that they each make and and the resultant acceptance rates.
You have been telling us that the site will not survive for several years now - yet still we are here. The most likely reason that this site will close is the lack of people who are willing to put a little effort into the supporting the site in a practical manner. Fortunately we have a handful of staff who are willing to work harder than anyone should be expected to do who keep this site rolling. And rather than thanking them you like to tell them what you think they should be doing. Keep that lecture to yourself and if you are now offended - hard luck.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 07 2021, @08:18PM
So much wrong with your reply I don't know where to begin. I'll just say that you've completely missed the point and misconstrued what people are saying. Your faux outrage or plain denials of being offended belie your own cognitive dissonance. I'm glad near civil war in the US was finally a line too far for you. Had to be somewhere.
(Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Thursday January 07 2021, @06:38PM (2 children)
janrinok is a bit slow, and he enables alt-right fascism, but his heart is actually in the right place. However, he is in denial, and does not to be lectured about it, especially by people who are correct. He did not want TMB painted with the broad brush, he only now admonishes Runaway, and he has Brexited. Pax vobiscum, janrinok!
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday January 07 2021, @07:49PM (1 child)
No, I'm not. No, I don't. No, I'm not. Don't give a damn what anybody says about TMB - he is more than capable of looking after himself. But when people are wrong, I do like to correct them.
I moved to France in 2007 when I retired. My wife is French. I haven't Brexited. I had been here 9 years before Brexit was even mentioned. Just how many incorrect statements can you get in such a short comment?
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday January 07 2021, @10:09PM
Denying the denial? That's like, double denialism! And you think I am wrong? Methinks thou dost protest too much, as a certain other Englishman wrote.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 07 2021, @12:47PM (16 children)
I'm so, so, so glad you finally found your spine! Please, more of this! We are long past the point where civility for its own sake regardless of a person's actions has any merit. You may be an editor but you're also a poster and it's your right and duty to call bullshit where bullshit stands.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by janrinok on Thursday January 07 2021, @02:18PM (15 children)
I don't need you to tell me how to think or what to say, so your 'Finally' is something you can keep to yourself. 'Finally', you mind your business and I will mind mine. I do not agree with most of what you say. That isn't to judge you as a person but simply to state that we often think in different ways. By bringing your judgemental views here you frequently do not improve the discussion.
Utter rubbish - I am an editor not a censor, and people are entitled to share their views even if you or I do not agree with them. Your opinions of others do not mean that I have to call bullshit where I think it is clearly obvious especially as some seem to make it their role to do so without any assistance from me. I do not believe that I have to say or write anything just because you think that I ought to.
I estimate that I have lived approximately twice as long as you have, and for the vast majority of it I have done so quite successfully without your advice, guidance or interference or even knowing that you existed, I think that if one has nothing to add to a conversation it is better to say nothing at all - unlike yourself who seems to think that your judgement of other people is something that we should all know and perhaps even share.
In short, kindly get back in your box.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 07 2021, @03:24PM
Finally we get the ranting self-praise! Thank you, we all knew you had it in you.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 07 2021, @06:25PM (1 child)
"When good men do nothing"
You are the poster child for it. I agree you are free to interact however you'd like, but you've lectured Azuma and Ari many times while never sayimg anything aboutthe alt-right fake news that gets regularly pushed around here. It is a double standard, but again you are an editor not a community moderator.
Weird how angry you're getting just because we're happy you called out Runaway. Never saw that self-righteous anger regarding you punking aristarchus over his alt-right subs.
So whatever, thanks for calling out Runaway's nonsense. Please add your voice of reason to discussions more often when you see blatant false nareatives. It truly is necessary for the health of this community.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday January 07 2021, @08:02PM
You are confusing comments with submissions. I am criticising Runaways comments and Ari's submissions. The two are most certainly not the same. The editors are responsible for publishing worthy submissions, the comments are the responsibility of the person making them.
If it is so obviously fake news what would I usefully add by making a comment?
I'll comment whenever I wish to, but only then - the community doesn't need my help.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 08 2021, @02:53AM (11 children)
Yeah, I had a feeling you'd do something to ruin your one moment of not being a spineless worm :/ And just because you don't like the person congratulating you for, for probably the first time in the site's history, standing up for what's right! How sad. Predictable, but sad.
If you've lived almost 65 years, if you're retirement age in the US, if you're Runaway's age, and THIS is your character? Then you've wasted your life. I've got more courage and moral fiber in my little finger than you do in your entire body, from the looks of it. It doesn't have to be this way but you insist on being a complicit non-entity with the very real crazies infesting this site.
What was that old quote, about the hottest places in Hell being reserved for people who deliberately remained neutral in times of moral crisis? Yeah. Hope you're wearing asbestos longjohns, you worthless sack of shit.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 4, Interesting) by janrinok on Friday January 08 2021, @05:35AM (10 children)
And yet you still think that I should do your bidding? When do you ever stop judging other people?
You're younger than I thought by a few years, thus I am older than your guess. I've fought in 3 wars, sometimes alongside your own countrymen, and been decorated. If that makes me 'spineless' then so so be it. Wasted my life? - other than the time wasted trying to explain to you that i don't feel the need to correct the comments of Americans having a discussion with other Americans about American politics I feel very content with my lot. You can sort out your own country.... or you can just give up and go to Canada.
And there is all the evidence I needed that I have successfully made my point - you have resorted to abuse and invective.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 08 2021, @01:28PM (9 children)
You're an insult to those medals then. Give them back. If you were that brave then and now can't even be bothered to stand up to someone spewing corrosive misinformation on the internet, at zero risk to your own life and limb, you don't deserve your shinies. Maybe you never truly did.
Sad to see you've disappeared that far up your own ass, but then again, I never had high expectations of you :/
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Troll) by janrinok on Friday January 08 2021, @02:45PM (8 children)
And you are an idiot who, for some reason, thinks that you can dictate which comments members of the community respond to. Unfortunately, you don't seem to be able to revoke your idiocy.
Why do you believe that you have the right to dictate which comments I reply to and what I must say? You go live your life, and stay out of mine.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday January 09 2021, @02:09AM (7 children)
Then resign your editorship and fuck off. You add as much to this site as Chamberlain did to European politics with this spineless, yellow-bellied appeasement of yours. Oh, and make sure they bury you with a fire extinguisher, Mr. Neutrality-in-a-time-of-moral-crisis.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by janrinok on Saturday January 09 2021, @04:57AM
You are now as acting precisely the same as those you criticise. What gives you the right to tell anyone what they should do, write or think?
If two Americans want to argue US politics why should I even be interested in what they are saying? We have enough to concern us with COVID and European politics without having to resolve your differences. With regards to politics, you and Runaway say very little that interests me, and nothing that adds any value to such conversations. It is this extreme polarisation of views that has led the US into the current political crisis.
The editors role is to process submissions and get them to the front page. We have no official involvement in the subsequent discussions unless we wish to comment with the same status as any other member of our community. We are not censors. We are not here to settle any petty squabbles or differences of opinion. We are not here to act as referees or to decide the winner of any discussion. We contribute to the running of the site in a limited capacity. This is intentional. You seem to think that we have a role to play in supporting your views thus helping you win your own arguments. You are telling me what I should think and write to please you. I do not care what you say. If there is a 'moral crisis' in the US, it is one of America's making and one that the whole of America must resolve if it hopes to regain any respect in the world. You are the problem - not the editors on this site.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday January 09 2021, @12:42PM (5 children)
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday January 09 2021, @12:57PM (4 children)
Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of your furious angst-wanking. Bytram HAS told people off, is doing it more consistently, and for that reason has kept my respect. You? You can join Chamberlain in Hell. And not too long from now either, if you're the age you claim to be.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday January 09 2021, @03:44PM (3 children)
Yes, that is part of the role of EiC. I am not EiC so it is no longer my job. So perhaps you should be asking somebody else to police the comments and the fake news on this site. Eventually you will understand.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday January 10 2021, @01:32AM (2 children)
I reiterate: Fuck off. Keep fucking off. Fuck off until you have circumnavigated the globe and returned to your starting position. Then fuck off again. You will face the consequences of your decision either in this world or the next, but face them you will.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Touché) by janrinok on Sunday January 10 2021, @10:31AM (1 child)
Gosh, I must have won that discussion in spades. I do love an intelligent exchange of information.
Will I face the consequences in the next world - have you got any evidence that it exists? Does your 'next world' exclude reincarnation? Or will I have to float down the Ganges on a funeral pyre to qualify? What about leaving my remains to science - will the person receiving my organs have to face those consequences for me? What if I have no religious beliefs, can I nominate you to shoulder that burden for me or do I draw names out of a hat (or would it be a halo)? Or are is it that you simply know nothing about my beliefs and religion and so are imposing yours upon me? Well, you do like to think that I am at your personal beck and call so I could see how you would reach such a viewpoint. But tempting as it is to have another conversation with you I suspect you will not be able to keep it at a civilised level and so I must reluctantly decline the opportunity
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday January 10 2021, @11:43PM
And that is how I know *I* won, when you spend ages putting together this bitter, pathetic attempt at mockery.
Face it, Jan, you fucked up, and I'm not the only one saying so. And if you're that weak that you can't handle some righteous criticism of your own complete lack of spine, *and* unwilling to grow one, that's not my problem. Quit crying and either grow up or fuck off. I don't give a shit what you think or feel or have to say and I could not care less that you're in a position of authority here.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...