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posted by janrinok on Thursday February 24 2022, @07:52AM   Printer-friendly

Live: Updating.

Reuters: Russian forces launch invasion of Ukraine with strikes on defence

MOSCOW/KYIV, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Russian forces fired missiles at several cities in Ukraine and landed troops on its coast on Thursday, officials and media said, after President Vladimir Putin authorised what he called a special military operation in the east.

Shortly after Putin spoke in a televised address on Russian state TV, explosions could be heard in the pre-dawn quiet of the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.

Gunfire rattled near the capital's main airport, the Interfax news agency said, and sirens were heard over the city.

WSJ: The Latest News on the Russia-Ukraine Crisis: Live Updates

Russian troops and tanks pushed into Ukraine and airstrikes hit the country's capital and more than a dozen other cities early Thursday after President Vladimir Putin said he ordered a military operation to "demilitarize and de-Nazify Ukraine" and bring its leaders to trial.

Ukrainian officials said an initial wave of strikes targeted military installations, airfields and government facilities across the country. Ukraine's border service said its troops came under attack all along the country's frontiers with Russia and Belarus as well as Crimea. Heavy shelling targeted the city of Mariupol on the Azov sea. Air-raid sirens sounded in Kyiv after 7 a.m. and the city's airport came under attack. Ukraine's military said it shot down five Russian warplanes and one helicopter. Russia denied any of its aircraft were hit.

CBS: NATO officials say Russian attack on Ukraine has begun

Russia has begun attacking Ukraine, NATO officials confirmed. The late-night attack began moments after Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that he had "decided to conduct a special military operation" to protect eastern Ukraine's Donbas region. CBS News correspondents reported hearing loud blasts in the capital city, Kyiv, and in the eastern city of Kharkiv.

A Ukrainian government spokesperson said early Thursday that "cruise and ballistic missile strikes are underway at the control centers" in Kyiv.

BBC: Ukraine conflict: Russian forces invade after Putin TV declaration

Russian forces have launched a military assault on neighbouring Ukraine, crossing its borders and bombing military targets near big cities.

In a pre-dawn TV statement Russian President Vladimir Putin said Russia did not plan to occupy Ukraine and demanded that its military lay down their arms.

Moments later, attacks were reported on Ukrainian military targets.

Ukraine said that "Putin has launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine".

Russian military vehicles were said to have breached the border in a number of places, in the north, south and east, including from Belarus.

 
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  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday February 28 2022, @07:51AM (25 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 28 2022, @07:51AM (#1225510) Journal

    This could have all been avoided entirely if a young post Soviet Russia had been allowed into the EU & into NATO as they once requested but were denied a place at the negotiating table.

    With good reasons for the refusal - such as Russia remaining to this day the reason why NATO exists. It's not a negotiating table either. Russia always has had plenty of access to that. It's spectacular how brazenly they ignored the negotiating table in recent months.

    From which Russia & Russian leaders quickly realised that they were the targets of NATO rather than potential allies.

    Duh. They don't make them Russians completely stupid.

    It was inevitable that Russian policy would become progressively more inward & nostalgic & it would only take the actions of a powerful & nostalgic leader to push for former nationalist glory if given the chance.

    Utterly retarded bullshit. It's no more inevitable than that you'll get a red car. This was a conscious choice which has failed for Russia.

    The ousting of a popular & democratically elected pro Russian leader in Ukraine by a US backed coup 10 years ago set the wheels in motion for the paranoia around Ukraine becoming a part of NATO.

    Oh look, one of your sources now says that Yanukovych was a Russian stooge. And that US backed coup was also massively backed by the Ukrainian public. I see the emphasis on "US backed" as a signal that the author is just parroting Russian propaganda at this point. The US just backed the right side. Russia backed the wrong side. It's that simple. When your "popular & democratically elected" leader bans protests, then he needs to go.

    As did also the US ripping up a written agreement with Iran, showing that the word of the US could not be trusted.

    A written agreement that the subsequent president was not required to respect (I'll note also that there appears to be Iranian violations of that treaty with continued work on nuclear weapons development). Meanwhile, I notice that the author neglected to mention Russia's brazen violation of the Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty in 2014 (it's not presently in force being canceled in 2019).

    And now after decades of meddling, invasion, & sanctions of countries globally by the US, & of ripping up agreements or abandoning allies where convenient, Russia now has plenty of allies to form an economic block if indeed a new Cold War is the result.

    Sure they do. But why would their allies form that economic bloc? Aside from some resources, Russia doesn't have much to offer. And some of those allies are pretty dangerous, like China. Russia might not last long in an economic union with China.

    The biggest question is if this escalates, will countries such as India side with Russia, a long time ally, knowing how US treats its loose allies, given India's tensions with China which will obviously side with Russia.

    US treats its loose allies pretty well actually. I guess this author just didn't notice.

    Or will we see a multipolar situation of increasing tension of competing interests & allegiances, potentially leading to an actual world war?

    I know how to fix this! Let Russia invade the Ukraine unopposed and establish a precedent for opportunistic warfare. What could possibly go wrong?

    One way to stop it is to admit Russia into the EU & NATO, immediately ending any notion of Russia being a target.

    Fuck that. Russia's actions make Russia the big target in Europe. This threat is always why NATO existed.

  • (Score: 2) by Pav on Monday February 28 2022, @09:18AM (24 children)

    by Pav (114) on Monday February 28 2022, @09:18AM (#1225529)

    I think we've established what variety of schitzophrenic you are.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday February 28 2022, @04:34PM (23 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 28 2022, @04:34PM (#1225614) Journal
      Yes, the nonexistent kind. Accusations of mental illness are a ridiculously common ploy when someone is badly losing the argument. And I've been accused of multiple mental illnesses before. your post is just one of many such completely irrelevant snowflakes. If you really think this is schizophrenia, then try this simple exercise. Find a list of symptoms of schizophrenia, and then attempt to match them up to my posts in this thread. When you fail, because it was a silly, desperate ad hominem in the first place, then realize you got whipped and shut up.

      Once again, as I've noted before, the real problem here is Putin. Tyrants have excessive security requirements. You fix that by getting rid of the tyrant, not by invading innocent countries. No amount of whining about the irrelevant flaws of other countries matters.

      If Russia had a real democracy with a leader with normal security requirements, NATO would just devolve into a MIC club. But as long as it has a real purpose, a obviously hostile Russia, no progress will be made against disbanding or defunding NATO.
      • (Score: 2) by Pav on Wednesday March 02 2022, @07:28PM (18 children)

        by Pav (114) on Wednesday March 02 2022, @07:28PM (#1226243)

        Schizophrenic is an accurate description for people who start losing the ability to organise ideas, lose the ability to determine what is and is not real, and in some flavours of the disease develop paranoia. Russia tried to join NATO and the EU after the fall of the Soviet Union, and they were refused a place at the table making it plain that Russia was an enemy rather than a potential ally. That's just an undeniable historical fact. The paranoia that came out of that on the Russian side was dangerous but also JUSTIFIED BY FACT (unlike yours). You on the other hand don't seem to realise treating someone as an enemy, even if unjustified, eventually makes them your enemy regardless sooner or later, reenforcing your belief that your schizophrenic gibberings were completely justified.

        I realise pointing this out is a compete waste of time on my part, but for some reason I find it enjoyable and therapeutic.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 04 2022, @12:28AM (17 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 04 2022, @12:28AM (#1226576) Journal

          Schizophrenic is an accurate description for people who start losing the ability to organise ideas, lose the ability to determine what is and is not real, and in some flavours of the disease develop paranoia.

          This is an illustrative post. You start with your description of schizophrenia, and then SQUIRREL! You're back to defending Putin without further mention of what was supposed to be special about that schizophrenic thing.

          Here's my take on that. This is like the third megathread where you've introduced random red herring into the discussion (see here [soylentnews.org] and here [soylentnews.org] for the other examples). I think this illustrates well the "losing the ability to organise ideas" (like going from taxing carbs to Plato, or from UBI support among US voters to Germany getting backstabbed by someone somehow). "lose the ability to determine what is and is not real" like the claim that we should ignore the entirety of western media because it's beholden [soylentnews.org] to the MIC and hence, fake news? Moving on, I suppose your insistence that NATO's year 2000 rejection of Russia counts as paranoia.

          In other words, if we're going to psychoanalyze people based on their posting history, you got some pretty weird symptoms.

          Well, now we see with Russia's invasion of an innocent country, that NATO's rejection of Russia back when was just a good call. Given how quickly afterward that Putin settled into his squalid schemes (including the occasional bizarre assassination or war), it sure looks to me like the demand to join NATO was made in bad faith - to undermine NATO.

          And you're going to claim that a two decade old rejection by the NATO club somehow justifies this brutal invasion now? Pull my other finger.

          • (Score: 2) by Pav on Saturday March 05 2022, @01:16AM (16 children)

            by Pav (114) on Saturday March 05 2022, @01:16AM (#1226764)

            I was being kind by calling you a schizophrenic (not a choice), but you insist on being called stupid and inconsistent (a choice, at least in many cases). Have it your way.

            You think I've been defending Putin. I have said many times that it's a criminal invasion... but if you're stupid then you seem like a beta nuthugger who need to pick a side, and is untroubled by principles. This would mean that a consistency of values wouldn't trouble your evaluations, and therefore you wouldn't be able to comprehend my defending Putins limited involvement in Donbas, to condemnation of his invasion... and an actual nuanced understanding (backed by experts in international relations) that NATO deserves condemnation for this PREDICTABLE result (and it was predicted by many people), and should have never moved east, let alone to Ukraine.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 05 2022, @02:32AM (14 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 05 2022, @02:32AM (#1226798) Journal

              You think I've been defending Putin.

              Because you have been defending Putin, that's why I think so.

              I have said many times that it's a criminal invasion...

              And then come up with excuses for why that criminal invasion is justified. Like not being invited to the Big Boy's NATO club, twenty years before.

              and therefore you wouldn't be able to comprehend my defending Putins limited involvement in Donbas

              I comprehend it just fine, your defense is just morally indefensible.

              and an actual nuanced understanding (backed by experts in international relations) that NATO deserves condemnation for this PREDICTABLE result

              A synonym for "nuanced understanding" here is "naked justification". If it really was a "PREDICTABLE result" that Russia would invade other countries, then they don't belong in NATO. Period.

              and should have never moved east, let alone to Ukraine.

              NATO hadn't moved to Ukraine. I bet it'll be a lot easier to justify that move now!

              • (Score: 2) by Pav on Saturday March 05 2022, @08:11AM (13 children)

                by Pav (114) on Saturday March 05 2022, @08:11AM (#1226847)

                Listen moron (which seems to be what you want to be called now) : you can't make yourself more safe my making other people less safe. Especially in the nuclear age. I can't put it more simply. If you can't understand why that's a thing then I can't help you.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 05 2022, @04:43PM (12 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 05 2022, @04:43PM (#1226937) Journal

                  you can't make yourself more safe my making other people less safe.

                  Nonsense. Putin's security concerns are a glaring counterexample. Make Putin and his like so unsafe that they're no longer in power in Russia, and that will make a lot of people safer in the long run - inside Russia as well as outside.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 05 2022, @05:06PM (11 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 05 2022, @05:06PM (#1226941) Journal
                    And notice it goes the other way as well. Putin is making himself safer by making a lot of other people less safe.
                    • (Score: 2) by Pav on Tuesday March 08 2022, @07:22AM (10 children)

                      by Pav (114) on Tuesday March 08 2022, @07:22AM (#1227566)

                      You DO realise it's the Ukraine (or rather the Ukrainian ultra right) that are refusing peace. One of the Ukrainian peace negotiators was assassinated by the ultra-right because he took his job too seriously. The ultra right accused him of treason while the majority of the Ukrainian government called him a hero. The ultra right want armageddon, and they're not just in Ukranian (which people are only just starting to realise) so you'd better hope they haven't slipped the US chain too far.

                      In choosing zero sum escalation over deescalation one suspects the powers that be don't actually desire safety for anyone anyway, but rather the contents of as many bank accounts as possible. One imagines you'll be wishing for more/better food, fuel and heating soon, let alone decent healthcare.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 08 2022, @07:15PM (9 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 08 2022, @07:15PM (#1227710) Journal

                        You DO realise it's the Ukraine (or rather the Ukrainian ultra right) that are refusing peace.

                        Yet another of your ridiculous red herrings, not only irrelevant to the topic, but conflating both the whole of the Ukraine with the "ultra right" and the "ultra right" with those actually involved in the assassination. On top of that, we're missing the Russians who are notorious for assassinations. It wouldn't be hard for them to kill this guy or bribe the guy who is taking credit for it.

                        In choosing zero sum escalation over deescalation one suspects the powers that be don't actually desire safety for anyone anyway, but rather the contents of as many bank accounts as possible. One imagines you'll be wishing for more/better food, fuel and heating soon, let alone decent healthcare.

                        I bet Europe and the US will have much less trouble with that than Russia will.

                        • (Score: 2) by Pav on Wednesday March 09 2022, @11:31AM (8 children)

                          by Pav (114) on Wednesday March 09 2022, @11:31AM (#1227888)

                          I'm not the one living in a country that already has had ultra-right nutcases attached to Ukraine wanting to bomb media, assassinate Beto O'Rourke etc... NPR just interviewed a Ukranian city mayor with a mass murdering WWII nazi framed on his wall... right in front of your face... and you still deny it like a cultist. He was probably greased into office on a snail trail of your tax dollars too. I guess this is some kind of recycling of Operation GLADIO?

                          The US will have much less trouble than Russia? We'll see, though your betters seem to think you're going to get the shit kicked out of you... gold is at an all time high.

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 09 2022, @03:49PM (7 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 09 2022, @03:49PM (#1227936) Journal

                            I'm not the one living in a country that already has had ultra-right nutcases attached to Ukraine wanting to bomb media, assassinate Beto O'Rourke etc...

                            I find it interesting how hypocritical you are here. What again is your excuse for the war in Ukraine? You're just another nazi with a different fuhrer, willing to excuse the deaths of thousands (or more) of people only because you hung a label on them.

                            NPR just interviewed a Ukranian city mayor with a mass murdering WWII nazi framed on his wall...

                            So what? Your point would be just as bullshit, if you had a portrait of a mass murdering WWII nazi on your wall.

                            right in front of your face... and you still deny it like a cultist.

                            What part of the word, "irrelevant" do you just not get? I already made clear a zillion posts ago that the "But they're nazis!" excuse doesn't go anywhere with me. Yet here you are pushing that button like it still works. That tells me you have nothing else.

                            Your mental illness is not my problem.

                            The US will have much less trouble than Russia? We'll see, though your betters seem to think you're going to get the shit kicked out of you... gold is at an all time high.

                            Don't be a dumbass. On each of those things you mentioned ("more/better food, fuel and heating soon"), the US is self-sufficient. The Ruble still has lost a third of its pre-war value (and probably is up to its present level only because of central bank shenanigans).

                            And there's that war. Even if the Ukrainian government were to buckle and surrender tomorrow, Russia will lose in the long run. Either they take over and suffer from a long term asymmetric warfare or they leave a government in place and eventually lose out to NATO or the EU (which won't honor forced treaties).

                            • (Score: 2) by Pav on Thursday March 10 2022, @06:09AM (6 children)

                              by Pav (114) on Thursday March 10 2022, @06:09AM (#1228192)

                              ...or a black flag behind him? Apparently you're a newborn who doesn't know history... the short term outsized ultility of violent dangerous ideologues in coups and proxy wars, and how long term they usually slip the chain and/or bite the hand... **shrug** And unlike certain other ideologies this one has deep roots in your society (and mine... I've known a few). But you do you.

                              Self sufficient? You say that like it's a thing. Sure, it gets you some transportation advantages but that's it. In your neoliberal utopia he world will compete for your oil, gas and grain... and your betters will sell it to the highest bidder, not a penny less. At least half of your countrymen are already scraping by. There's going to be mass profiteering. This might even have something to do with the push to get people to stop hanging out at home and get back to work (and onto the roads). Hell, they even caffenated and wheeled out Biden to spread the message.

                              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday March 10 2022, @03:24PM (5 children)

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 10 2022, @03:24PM (#1228281) Journal

                                ...or a black flag behind him? Apparently you're a newborn who doesn't know history... the short term outsized ultility of violent dangerous ideologues in coups and proxy wars, and how long term they usually slip the chain and/or bite the hand... **shrug** And unlike certain other ideologies this one has deep roots in your society (and mine... I've known a few). But you do you.

                                Didn't happen in the short history of the Ukraine since 2014. For example, they had an election in 2019.

                                Self sufficient? You say that like it's a thing. Sure, it gets you some transportation advantages but that's it. In your neoliberal utopia he world will compete for your oil, gas and grain... and your betters will sell it to the highest bidder, not a penny less. At least half of your countrymen are already scraping by. There's going to be mass profiteering. This might even have something to do with the push to get people to stop hanging out at home and get back to work (and onto the roads). Hell, they even caffenated and wheeled out Biden to spread the message.

                                Indeed, self-sufficient is a thing here. Even in the world of low cost global trade, it still costs money to ship this stuff out of the US and hence, there's incentive to sell locally. In your hypothetical future of high oil prices, trade is similarly affected, meaning that premium to sell locally has gone up.

                                As to the rest of your post, vague conspiracies about getting people back into the workforce are worthless. When one abandons concrete evidence just about anything could be possible.

                                • (Score: 2) by Pav on Friday March 11 2022, @02:21AM (4 children)

                                  by Pav (114) on Friday March 11 2022, @02:21AM (#1228460)

                                  Welllll... unless you count the the american guy who felt part of a nazi international (and he may very well be) who wanted to spread knowledge of IEDs. Or the european nazis who've also been going to Ukraine for years for training. What for?

                                  And it's funny that you mention the election... BOTH Poroshenko and Zelensky campaigned on a normalisation of relations with Russia ticket. Poroshenko (in a Trumpian billionaire get-things-done way) said he'd get on the phone to Putin and sort things out in an hour. The Ukrainians have been sold out long before this.

                                  You're getting set to lose hard too, and not in the beta-who-joined-the-wrong-team kinda way... more in a not-important-to-your-betters kinda way ie. no matter what happens on the other side of the world. This is just another opportunity for you to become one of those who lose all their stuff... and actually believe you deserved it. Monopoly end-game.

                                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 11 2022, @05:57AM (3 children)

                                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 11 2022, @05:57AM (#1228504) Journal

                                    Welllll... unless you count the the american guy who felt part of a nazi international (and he may very well be) who wanted to spread knowledge of IEDs. Or the european nazis who've also been going to Ukraine for years for training. What for?

                                    Why would I count a small number of crazies? As to spreading knowledge of IEDs, I suggest the world's militaries as a far more efficient and prevalent source of such knowledge than some american guy.

                                    And it's funny that you mention the election... BOTH Poroshenko and Zelensky campaigned on a normalisation of relations with Russia ticket. Poroshenko (in a Trumpian billionaire get-things-done way) said he'd get on the phone to Putin and sort things out in an hour. The Ukrainians have been sold out long before this.

                                    So no evidence that anything untoward happened? Seems par for your posts. I'll note to the contrary that this demonstrates that democratic voting actually worked since Poroshenko didn't get elected indefinitely unlike some Russian leader I could name.

                                    You're getting set to lose hard too, and not in the beta-who-joined-the-wrong-team kinda way... more in a not-important-to-your-betters kinda way ie. no matter what happens on the other side of the world. This is just another opportunity for you to become one of those who lose all their stuff... and actually believe you deserved it. Monopoly end-game.

                                    Cool story, bro. But what does that have to do with real life?

                                    • (Score: 2) by Pav on Friday March 11 2022, @06:13AM (2 children)

                                      by Pav (114) on Friday March 11 2022, @06:13AM (#1228506)

                                      Time will tell the tale...

                                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 11 2022, @06:15AM (1 child)

                                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 11 2022, @06:15AM (#1228507) Journal
                                        Better prepare to be enlightened. The future can't be faked.
                                        • (Score: 2) by Pav on Friday March 11 2022, @06:47AM

                                          by Pav (114) on Friday March 11 2022, @06:47AM (#1228509)

                                          Hopefully the following weeks, months and years will be more interesting than devastating for the world.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 05 2022, @03:37AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 05 2022, @03:37AM (#1226814) Journal

              I was being kind by calling you a schizophrenic

              No, you were just hurling schoolyard insults. And you have yet to do that exercise of matching my words to schizophrenia symptoms. Protip: it's not going to work.

      • (Score: 2) by Pav on Wednesday March 02 2022, @08:55PM (3 children)

        by Pav (114) on Wednesday March 02 2022, @08:55PM (#1226263)

        ...and because I know your scatterheaded state I'll reiterate - Putins invasion beyond Donbas is criminal... but it's in a context of consistently treating Russia like an enemy, and moving a military alliance that refused to admit Russia to its border.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 04 2022, @12:31AM (2 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 04 2022, @12:31AM (#1226577) Journal

          ...and because I know your scatterheaded state I'll reiterate - Putins invasion beyond Donbas is criminal... but it's in a context of consistently treating Russia like an enemy, and moving a military alliance that refused to admit Russia to its border.

          In other words, it was a good call to keep Russia out of the NATO alliance. Seriously, it's bizarre that you're pushing this. Russia's nuttiness and violence is exactly why the NATO alliance exists.

          • (Score: 2) by Pav on Saturday March 05 2022, @01:02AM (1 child)

            by Pav (114) on Saturday March 05 2022, @01:02AM (#1226761)

            Bizarre to keep Ukraine out of NATO? You've just proved you're an idiot... but I guess you're nuthugging the architects of US decline. Two Australian Prime Ministers have long been against NATO expansion... y'know, the guys who were the architects of the actual rise of a nation. Another prime minister has come out more recently to say the same thing. If you want to look at people from the US... George Tennet(sp?) the architect of the USSR cold war containment strategy said moving NATO east was a huge mistake. John Matlock, Mearsheimer, currently... even Kissenger if you bend that way. But you think it's bizarre... oh lord and master of the discipline of international relations in your own head. 1) Ukraine is going to be leveled (if Western Ukrainians don't give up, and they won't), and 2) There is a very small chance Russia may use nukes if its backed into a corner. A very small chance multiplied by a catastrophic, possibly world ending consequence.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 05 2022, @02:34AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 05 2022, @02:34AM (#1226799) Journal

              [khallow:] In other words, it was a good call to keep Russia out of the NATO alliance. [...]

              [Pav:] Bizarre to keep Ukraine out of NATO?

              So your entire post is based on a incorrect reading of my post. Try again.