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stderr writes: "I used to visit a certain website quite often, but if Dice Holdings decide to switch the interface to what is currently known as "Beta", I'll have to find another site for my "stuff that matters" fix. So, SoylentNews, what sites can you recommend for a "maybe-ex" /. user?"
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What "News for Nerds" Sites Should I Use?
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Hacking's just another word for nothing left to kludge.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Bruce Perens on Monday February 17 2014, @09:11PM
I am doing the last bit of work before bringing Technocrat.net back online today. The software is brand new, and not as functional as the slashcode here (moderation doesn't work yet) but it's going in a different direction that I hope will raise the level of discourse. No ACs. Extra status for people who post using their real name. Moderation of submissions once they're published (Haven't you wanted to down-moderate bad articles on Slashdot?). Moderation of comments on two axes: comportment (behavior) and content. Editors get to delete comments, the garbage we're so used to on Slashdot doesn't get to stick around. Optimized for caching (I serve through Cloudflare, so this is a scalability thing, but if you can use a proxy it helps there, too). Minimal Javascript (you need Javacript to moderate, and to submit, but not to read at all). Device agnostic. Very sparse styling.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 17 2014, @09:22PM
Sounds horrid. I'll stick to Soylent, but thanks for trying to poach from a brand new site!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Schafer2 on Monday February 17 2014, @09:57PM
Bruce
For those that don't recognize the name, Google Bruce Perens. He has a long, solid history with our community. He's helped define the open source movement, lead Debian, and your home router is probably running some of his code.
Technocrat.net /. beta progressed, I thought his resurrection of Technocrat.net would be the best option, and said so. While working on the site, it would have been nice if he had URL forwarded Technocrat.net to Slashdot classic--it would have been a great way to indicate who was ready to move, both to ourselves and to Dice.
As the
Technocrat.net vs. SoylentNews /. links. Of course, I'll give Technocrat.net a try once ready, but I feel really good about SN starting out from the best of what /. was in the past.
It was disappointing to see Bruce take a dig at the SoylentNews team on the Technocrat.net placeholder page. Due to the heroic efforts of the SN team, I've already changed out my
(Score: 0) by buswolley on Monday February 17 2014, @10:06PM
Well. Welcome. :)
The revolution turns on itself?
nah...there isnt a revolution.
subicular junctures
(Score: 3, Informative) by Bruce Perens on Monday February 17 2014, @10:39PM
What was I supposed to forward to? Soylent news just went live yesterday, at which point I already had news about the new site debut posted at technocrat.net.
I'm impressed by the success of the SN team with the old slashcode. But IMO, the Slashcode has always been a pain to maintain (I ran it a long time ago) and the effort to bring it forward to work with today's software will get thrown away, unless you want to stick with that software forever, which isn't the best idea. I know spending any more time with that code would have made me really unhappy. And it took me a week to bring up basic Rails code with many the features I wanted, from zero, working alone. It would have taken less time, but I've had to get up to speed with changes in Rails 3 and 4 since I've done much web development.
(Score: 2) by tdk on Monday February 17 2014, @11:03PM
When I first set up squte.com as a slashdot look-a-like, I tried to use slashcode but found it so difficult, that like you I gave it up for a more modern framework. Other people had similar problems. [kuro5hin.org]
All of which just makes the achievements of the soylent news dev team more impressive. Maybe they should move to something more modern - but the goal was to get something as similar to /. up as quickly as possible. There'll be plenty of time later to experiment.
Take back your internet [squte.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 19 2014, @06:31AM
As others have pointed out, the "killer" feature of Slashcode is the mod/commenting system. So far, no other forum code has been able to match it feature-for-feature, but I'm sure a lot of developers out there have recently been inspired to try!
(Score: 1) by tdk on Wednesday February 19 2014, @12:34PM
There are a few projects that use Slashdot type moderation. See scoop [kuro5hin.org] and slashcomments [drupal.org].
Take back your internet [squte.com]
(Score: 1) by anthem on Monday February 17 2014, @10:29PM
> No ACs.
> Extra status for people who post using their real name.
> Editors get to delete comments, the garbage we're so used to on Slashdot doesn't get to stick around.
Given the above, I have no desire to support your venture as a would be user. Just personal preference. The craziness of AC trolls or registered trolls is a force of its own, and when I don't want to see it I just filter out -1.
This is also way different than Slashdot / Soylent news philosophy - Not like that's wrong but why do you take a slight at Soylent News on your site. Or it seems like you do. Good luck sincerely, but the tone of your comment turns me off to your idea.
(Score: 1) by Bruce Perens on Monday February 17 2014, @10:51PM
Yes, I understand that I will lose some people this way. I must have the courage to lose them if I want to try new stuff. It might work, in which case it would be worth it.
I explained in another comment my feelings regarding the old slashcode, please see that.
(Score: 2) by koreanbabykilla on Monday February 17 2014, @10:33PM
But the "garbage we are used to on ./" gets handled by the moderation system. Nothing being deleted means I can surf at -1 and see all the stuff the moderators don't want on the site. There is some good shit at -1 sometimes. I think the non-ability to edit/delete posts is the best part of slashcode.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Bruce Perens on Monday February 17 2014, @10:48PM
I'm pretty sure you can present any information whatsoever without being a troll, and I'd like to promote more people learning how to do that and how to participate in a civil discussion. Unfortunately, presenting trolls at -1 rewards the trolls, because they will be read by some segment of the audience. Rewarding the trolls means they will repeat their behavior. Wiping out their mess as quickly as possible means they've wasted their time and demotivates them from repeating bad conduct.
There's a famous social study about leaving a car on a city street with a broken window, and it being on blocks with the wheels gone within a short time, when a similar car without a broken window remained untouched. Slashdot is like that, it actually promotes its bad conduct.
So, what if we try to never reward bad conduct, and consistently reward the good?
(Score: 1) by koreanbabykilla on Monday February 17 2014, @10:56PM
Interesting thought. I would always worry the "Powers that be" at any site that deletes trolls instead of modbombing them, would at some point delete a "troll" that would have been something ontopic I would like to discuss. Perhaps some notifier that a post was deleted with a link to the deleted content so people can verify what is being removed is what ought to be?
That being said, I'm no Bruce Perens, so I will for sure be trying anything you think is a good idea.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by kru on Monday February 17 2014, @11:48PM
The loss of ACs is a devastating blow to the discussion of a site. Many people want to express views or admit ignorance in the security that their self wont be injured by the revelations. Anonymity allows growth in ways that its absence wont. Anonymity can also be abused for trolling, and it will be, but to remove it completely may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I was looking forward to technocrat all week, and I will likely still give it a chance. However, I am deeply disappointed in the loss of AC. I hope that you reconsider this one aspect.
(Score: 1) by Bruce Perens on Tuesday February 18 2014, @12:19AM
What is the problem with Pseudonomity, as presently exercised on Slashdot? Peolple post from handles and you don't learn their names unless you reveal them.
(Score: 1) by koreanbabykilla on Tuesday February 18 2014, @01:10AM
Do you think killing anon will just up the number of sockpuppet accounts? I might as well be an AC on ./ and here, for all the good knowing "Koreanbabykilla" does anyone. I made the ./ account, and stay logged in, simply so it will remember I want to browse at -1 nested. Now, if I post enough, people will be able to form some picture of who I am. If I then want to post something that could cause loss of a job or freedom or such, I would need a sockpuppet if there is no AC option. Not anything I ever will need to worry about, but I think something to think about.
(Score: 1) by Bruce Perens on Tuesday February 18 2014, @07:53AM
Yes, pseudonymity is the alternative to being an AC. A sock-puppet, on the other hand, is intended to be deceptive. I have some vague thoughts on using reputation to discourage them. It helps that I have the comportment axis for comment moderation, that might catch them. We would need to show reputation values right next to their user ID (rather than moderating the comment). I'll work on it.
(Score: 1) by Aiwendil on Tuesday February 18 2014, @11:53AM
Just a crazy idea if you implement reputation. Allow registered users to post with their uid/username hidden, and apply all reputation-changing effects to the poster and as soon as it isn't possible to moderate the comment anymore (archiving or maybe time-limit) unlink all references between the "posted as hidden"-comment and the account (excepting the reputation-changes).
This would allow for an anonymity that still incurs a "cost" on the account for trolls.
(Score: 1) by Hombre on Monday February 17 2014, @10:41PM
Sounds (mostly) interesting. Not sure about letting editors delete comments (unless they're so completely off topic or unambiguously flamebait, but even then... isn't that what moderation is for?)
As someone who does not code and has no interest in coding*, will I still find Technocrat interesting? I liked /. just fine I like having a news aggregator for technical type stuff, even if much if it doesn't apply to me, and I like having it presented in a style that doesn't look like someone just puked all over my web browser. So if Technocrat fits the bill, I'll hang out there too.
Do you mind if we just call you Bruce? You know, just to keep it clear. It'll cut down on all the confusion.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 17 2014, @10:49PM
You can't have honest commentary without the ability for people to post anonymously. Unless your site takes countermeasures, people can still make up a name; wouldn't it be better to just let people be open with their anonymity? :)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but "real" names won't improve anything over fake names in terms of concern over one's reputation, but I can see advertisers lick their fingers for that data.
I think I would prefer a site like SoylentNews instead.
(Score: 1) by Bruce Perens on Monday February 17 2014, @11:05PM
I doubt we'll be able to compete with Facebook in that market!
I have been posting under my real name for a long time. I even put my phone number on the web: 1-510-4PERENS. And my email's on my web site. It doesn't get me additional advertising. I do get additional advertising from what I look at on some store web sites, though.
(Score: 1) by chebucto on Monday February 17 2014, @11:00PM
In terms of subjects covered, with technocrat.net fill in some of the gaps left by groklaw's closure?
Thanks for your work on this. I look forward to seeing technocrat.net. After years of decline at slashdot, we now have Soylent news, pipedot, and technocrat.net . Exciting times!
(Score: 2, Informative) by Bruce Perens on Monday February 17 2014, @11:08PM
Yes, I would like to dedicate one of the first discussions on Technocrat.net to planning what we will do to replace Groklaw. I am not sure that news blog software is the right platform. Maybe a wiki?
(Score: 1) by tristram on Monday February 17 2014, @11:02PM
Haven't you already pulled the plug on technocrat.net twice already? Not to give offense, but why would anybody want to move their community to a site with that track record?
If you can contribute software that improves upon Slash, that's valuable -- but I'm not sure that trying to suck people to your site is where you should be expending your effort.
(Score: 1) by Bruce Perens on Monday February 17 2014, @11:11PM
Yes, I pulled the plug twice, mostly due to lack of readership and having more important uses of my time (because the lack of readership didn't make the activity worthwhile). The only difference now is that Slashdot stinks worse than it did back then.
This brings us back to the lack of readership issue. It's a chicken-and-egg problem, isn't it?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 17 2014, @11:18PM
I have to disagree with your ideas. Your site failed once, due to a lack of readership. I am not interested in visiting it in the future as I feel it will probably fail again. In fact coming here to get users will likely result in neither site having enough users to make it worthwhile. Good luck to you, but I have no intention of switching again. I can appreciate that you are trying to do good things, but I have no desire in the community splintering any more then it already has.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Tuesday February 18 2014, @01:02AM
I don't think there will be so much competition between the sites -- Maybe I'm unique, though I doubt it -- I have a series of sites I check everyday. The existence of one does not make me avoid the others at all.
(Score: 1) by tristram on Tuesday February 18 2014, @12:28AM
Well, this response kind of tells me that when you lose interest again, you'll yank it yet again.
An obvious solution would be to try to work with those who produced this site, rather than working against them. Yes, they may not have a history of success in running a discussion site -- but at least they don't have a history of failure.
I don't know whether the administrators here are married to the idea of using Slash or not, but hopefully they're at least willing to take a look at available alternatives.
(Score: 1) by Khyber on Monday February 17 2014, @11:16PM
Despite the ribbing you get, Bruce, you've done a great service to the community as a whole over the years. For that, thanks!
Destroying Semiconductors With Style Since 2008, and scaring you ill-educated fools since 2013.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 18 2014, @03:38AM
Oh wow. Until someone else commented, I did not realise the who the person was.
Bruce, what time zine do you live in. I want to check http://technocrat.net/ [technocrat.net] first thing in the morning in your TZ.
(Score: 1) by Bruce Perens on Tuesday February 18 2014, @07:57AM
It's not going on the air until around mid-day (US-Pacific) Tuesday. For regular articles, I have given submitters the power to choose the publication start date (although editors can override) so that you can set your articles to run when you'll be awake.