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From an email from Linus Torvalds to GKH
"Greg just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code from Kay [Sievers] into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed.
This has been going on for *years*, and doesn't seem to be getting any better. This is relevant to you because I have seen you talk about the kdbus patches, and this is a heads-up that you need to keep them separate from other work. Let distributions merge it as they need to and maybe we can merge it once it has been proven to be stable by whatever distro that was willing to play games with the developers.
But I'm not willing to merge something where the maintainer is known to not care about bugs and regressions and then forces people in other projects to fix their project. Because I am *not* willing to take patches from people who don't clean up after their problems, and don't admit that it's their problem to fix."
(Score: 5, Informative) by Bob The Cowboy on Friday April 04 2014, @08:19PM
1) Looks like a Kernel Dev ;)
2) Looks like a systemd Dev
3) Don't know, but no one's making you
Basically the issue boiled down to something like:
If you pass 'debug' to the linux kernel boot command (presumably/historically to debug the kernel), systemd parses that and floods dmesg with its own debugging info. Apparently it floods dmesg with so much of its own debugging info it locks up the machine.
The systemd dev (Kay) basically said "you guys don't own the word debug, if someone passes debug to the kernel, we're going to assume they want to debug systemd as well."
This didn't go over well...
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday April 04 2014, @08:39PM
2) Looks like a systemd Dev
Ahh, now it makes sense. I've heard of systemd, and the "controversial" use of it.
Seems like the obvious thing would be to pass "debugsysd" to allow systemd to be debugged.
(Score: 2) by forsythe on Friday April 04 2014, @09:19PM
That solution (actually the variant 'systemd.debug', to match a few other 'systemd.xyz' parameters) was actually presented, and a patch was even submitted for it. The rejection of that suggestion may very well have been a significant factor in Linus' ongoing irritation.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 05 2014, @04:50AM
> Seems like the obvious thing would be to
Actually, what the kernel needs is:
if ( strcmp( pid[1], "systemd" ) {
kernel_panic();
}
and just stop the systemd craziness at its start.
(Score: 1) by GeminiDomino on Saturday April 05 2014, @06:55PM
No no no! That's exactly why Linus tore this jerk a new asshole to begin with! He's apparently had the attitude of "change your code to suit mine" for years, and that's just what you're playing into! ;)
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture"
(Score: 2) by nukkel on Friday April 18 2014, @04:39PM
Either you are Kay, or you forgot a "!" operator.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Open4D on Friday April 04 2014, @09:01PM
The systemd bug report is: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 [freedesktop.org]
But that was closed.
So there was an LKML thread here [iu.edu], about possible Linux patches to deal with the problem instead. Torvalds's announcement about Sievers is the first reply.
But now the systemd bug has a status of "REOPENED". So maybe Torvalds's announcement had the desired effect?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 04 2014, @09:48PM
And here's a fix:
+ if (!strcmp(p->p_name, "systemd")) killproc(p, "fuck you");
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 05 2014, @01:39AM
fuck me?
not syncing: attempt to kill init!
fuck you!
(Score: 1) by Subsentient on Saturday April 05 2014, @02:46AM
Oh man, that's a funny one.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 2) by zocalo on Friday April 04 2014, @11:47PM
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 1) by blackpaw on Saturday April 05 2014, @08:24AM
Wow, that's just plain childish. How embarrassing. Its like a five year sticking their fingers in their ears going "NYAH NYAH NAYH! CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Friday April 04 2014, @09:06PM
if he knew (or later, found out) that the shared word 'debug' caused so much trouble at boot time, why on earth would anyone want to argue to keep it that way instead of just making it debug_systemd or something not in collision with the standard debug word?
sheesh. there are things to argue for; but this is not one of them. linus was right. thou shalt NOT break userland via any kernel change!
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by emg on Friday April 04 2014, @09:23PM
Because the goal of systemd appears to be to take over the entire operating system until the kernel is just a minor part of systemd?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Saturday April 05 2014, @02:52AM
Pretty much this.
Poettering is about as arrogant an ass as you will ever see.
Systemd's hooks go way too deep and very little of it has been reviewed from a security standpoint. There is no telling what it can do or might be doing.
It wasn't written for you.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2, Funny) by GeminiDomino on Saturday April 05 2014, @06:57PM
What?!
EMACS won't stand for that sort of thing for very long, let me tell you.
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture"
(Score: 1) by mverwijs on Friday April 04 2014, @09:56PM
Not only does systemd parses that, it also renders the system unbootable at that point.
Another gem of systemd: disable CGROUPS and it segfaults. Again: rendering the system unusable.
The problem here is not the bugs though. It's the attitude of the developers: "Works for me. Your problem. WONTFIX."
(Score: 1) by Subsentient on Saturday April 05 2014, @02:48AM
Do I dare advertise the glory that is Epoch with this opportunity?
Ahh, screw it. http://universe2.us/epoch.html [universe2.us]
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 2) by tibman on Saturday April 05 2014, @03:41AM
Saw it mentioned in the March Gentoo monthly newsletter. Question #4 in the interview of TomWij: http://blogs.gentoo.org/news/2014/03/31/gentoo-mon thly-newsletter-march-2014/ [gentoo.org]
Nothing marked stable yet: http://packages.gentoo.org/package/sys-apps/epoch? arches=prefix [gentoo.org]
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 1) by Subsentient on Saturday April 05 2014, @06:45AM
1.0.1 is the current stable release. Yeah, not sure why they've kept it as unstable.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti